Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

House Burning Down

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 03:43 PM
Original message
House Burning Down



Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey
Look at the sky turn a hell fire red
Somebody's house is burnin' down down, down down
Down, down, down.

Well I asked my friend where is that black smoke comin' from ?
He just coughed and changed the subject and
said oh wa I think it might snow some
So I left him sippin' his tea an' I jumped in my chariot
And rode off to see just why and who could it be this time.

Sisters and brothers daddys mothers standin' 'round cryin'
When I reached the scene the flames were makin' a ghostly whine
So I stood on my horse's back an' I screamed without a crack
I say oh baby why'd you burn your brother's house down ?

Hey ! Hey ! Hey ! Hey !

Look out the sky turn a hell fire red Lord
Somebody's house is burnin' down down, down down
Look out the sky turn a hell fire red Lord
Somebody's house is burnin' down down, down down down.

Well someone stepped from the crowd he was nineteen miles high
He shouts retired and disgusted so we paint red through the sky
I said the truth is straight ahead so
don't burn yourself instead
Try to learn instead of burn, hear what I say, yeah, yeah.

So I fin'ly rode away but I'll never forget that day
'Cause when I reached the valley I looked way down cross the way
A giant boat from space landed with eerie grace
And came and taken all the dead away.
Jimi Hendrix; House Burning Down

Jimi Hendrix wrote this song in 1968, in response to the riots that took place across America when Martin Luther King, Jr., was murdered. It was a powerful statement by one of the gentle souls of the 1960s, which expressed his concern that the anger and hatred that people were experiencing was beginning to devour them in a tragic way. It is, in my opinion, one of the most intensely important works of art from that bygone era.

Frequently, I tend to write about water-related issues on this forum. But today, after reading through a number of posts/threads here, and listening to Hendrix, I thought I'd try my hand on a fire-related topic. It's a curious force of energy, fire, and one that has a strong relationship to human kind. Used properly, fire can heat a house. We have a central chimney in our home, with three fireplaces that people used back when the building was a stage coach station/post office/doctor's office in the late 1700s and early 1800s. I did some repairs on the chimney when I bought the place, and am always very careful when we have a fire here.

As some friends here know, I have a “sweat lodge” out near my pond. There, my family and I engage in one of humanity's oldest ceremonies, which includes water, fire, earth, and air. Other folks here who have participated in these know that, done properly, one engages in both an internal and external journey. One of the most important things that Chief Paul Waterman taught me about this ceremony is to pray for the “All”: that includes the earth and all of the forces that sustain life upon it; the plants and animals, and human beings. Paul was from the Onondaga Nation, which is the Haudenosaunee – or Six Nation Iroquois Confederacy's – “Fire Keepers.” The Onondaga keep the tribal wisdom, and introduce the knowledge of our ancestors' ancestors into our lives today. Paul was what is known as a “Wisdom Keeper,” which is at once a status of honor and great obligation. The thing that I remember best, which applies to all of us today, was Paul telling me to pray for our enemies in ceremony – because they are actually those who need it most.

That is not, of course, easy. Nothing important in life ever really is. I am, like everyone else, a human being, and prone to experiencing the wide range of emotions we all feel. In recent essays here, I've noted my participation in a conflict in my old home town of Sidney, N.Y., where some Tea Party people in political offices are attempting to force the excavation of the graves of Islamic people there. In the past, I was active in the first case that tested the federal Native American Burial Protection and Repatriation Act, also in Sidney. I'm not fond of racists, ghouls, and grave-robbers. Yet, in order to be properly prepared for next week's public meeting, which will be as hot as any sweat lodge ceremony, I hold on to what Paul taught me.

Years ago, when I was a social worker, I was driving towards a distant town, for a meeting. I had a strange feeling, and so I made an off-course stop at the home of one of the families I worked with. The parents were among the most repulsive, sadistic people I have ever met. However, as I entered their driveway, I noticed smoke. Their house was on fire, as a result of a four-year-old child playing with a lighter as his parents slept. Long story short: I was able to get the family out of the house, although a one point it put my safety at high risk. I was physically spent after that, and thoroughly convinced that I never wanted to be inside a house burning down again.

Around that same time, one of my best friends from Sidney who served as a volunteer fireman had a terrible experience. A local house burned, and he found the burned bodies of two elderly sisters that he had known since he was a little boy. He and I spent a lot of time together after that, and I tried to help him process that experience, though even today I do not think that he has ever gotten over it. I understand that. When I was a kid, one of my uncles was murdered by a guy he had just beaten in a game of cards in a bar; the guy that killed him put my uncle into his car, and set it on fire in an attempted “cover up.” That has stayed with me.

The passions that human beings experience are sometimes compared to fire. That has a symbolic meaning that is easily understood. Like a real fire, human emotions are an energy force that can either be used to our benefit, or rage out of control. It is unfortunately all too common for people to focus those emotions on those they hate, fear, or do not understand. In Sidney, for example, those Tea Party people are aiming their negative passions at a tiny settlement of Sufi Muslims. If allowed to burn out of control, they will destroy a cemetery, a farm settlement, and much more. For when hatred and fear fuel a fire, it will allows seek to burn out of control.

As human beings living in a country that is suffering from the same flames of hatred that Jimi Hendrix warned of, we need to consider what type of society we really want to inhabit. We are not at a point in time where we can seriously think that if our neighbor's house is on fire, our own is safe. Not even if we dislike the opinions of the family next door. No, there is not some line of defense that allows some to sit by and enjoy the suffering of our neighbors, nor should we want or allow that type of thinking to define our communities.

Peace,
H2O Man
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks.
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 03:48 PM by mmonk
I agree. I cannot imagine being any other way nor would I want to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Right.
I was definitely impressed by Jimi Hendrix playing a burning guitar, but I find some of the stuff being said on this forum to be unattractive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
Douse the flames, H2O Man!

:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Thank you.
Much appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kick and Rec
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Thank you!
It's good to choose to live with a smile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Peace to you.
Peace to Jimi.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. once again, your poigniantly beautiful
voice speaks to the heart of the matter.

Thank you Dear H20 Man, for speaking out to us all.

:grouphug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
40. Thank you very much.
"It seems to be so very hard to maintain detachment of mind in the midst of raging fires." -- Gandhi
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well said, H20 Man...
"No, there is not some line of defense that allows some to sit by and enjoy the suffering of our neighbors, nor should we want or allow that type of thinking to define our communities."

Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Beautifully said, H20 Man.
The fires of hatred are a dangerous element. They will eventually consume the very people who fuel them. When we are able to see others as something less than human, we ourselves become less than human.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. That dang Libertarian thinking is not a good thing as this man found out.
I have seen no one on DU enjoying the suffering of the man whose house burned down.

I certainly feel terrible about it happening to anyone. I would also have been there with my bucket of water trying to help put out the fire.

With that said, he probably would have had his house saved if he had paid for the service. He was able to help himself but made a choice not to. He could have taken care of business and he should have taken care of business.

Helping is doing something for someone that they are unable to do for themselves.

Enabling is doing things for someone that they can and should be doing for themselves.

k&r even though I disagree with some of your OP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Right.
I didn't say that anyone on DU was "enjoying the suffering" of the fellow who lost his house to fire. I'm not sure why you included that.

Likewise, I did not comment on if that guy should have paid the money for coverage.

My focus was on the cold and hard-heartedness of people who base their thinking and actions on what "other" people do. The highest estate among humans is found in compassion .....and that should not be limited to those we like, or those who do not make errors in judgement or action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The poor guy said he forgot to pay the bill....
and people offered to pay it for him when the firemen arrived and they still refused to put it out. I really, really hope and pray that you never forget something that tears you and your family's whole world apart. It's very difficult to walk in another man's moccasins unless you have at least a "little bit of empathy" in your soul! I feel sorry for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. he was notified by mail & by personal phone call. he also said he didn't pay because
he thought they'd come regardless.

his family had had a fire before.

that would make me remember.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Burn baby Burn!
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. 2500 people in the city. 15,000 people in the unincorporated county,.
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 07:27 AM by Hannah Bell
75% of fire calls come from the county.

more than half of them didn't pay when billed after their fires were put out.

an engine & pumper truck run close to a million dollars.

who's going to pay for the next ones?

sorry to keep harping on the material facts, but there it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Burnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. i figured you had no answer.
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 07:29 AM by Hannah Bell
you guys are all phony appeals to emotion & "it's simple, just do x" & "the poor kitties!"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Figured you'd try to hijack every thread about compassion on this issue. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. "compassion" is the fraudulent pap of those who won't address equity
& the libertarian attack on public services.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Compassion is the basis of all morality. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. if you say so. i think it;'s a bunch of windy crap spouted by people who;'ve never been
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 07:40 AM by Hannah Bell
in extremis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. How would you know anything about what any poster on DU has lived through?
Besides what they've been willing to share?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. The same way they claim to know the farmer's politics
When asked how they know that, they shout that he was late on a bill, and thus deserved to burn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. My Mom was a dust bowl migrant
She taught me that compassion is God in us. She picked cotton. Peaches. She never, ever became a bitter revenge type.
My Father. During the Depression, his mother died, all of the kids were put in public care, apart from one another. Granpa eventually got them back. They went without most things, including heat in Illinois winter, for many years. Dad taught me that understanding that others also have needs and troubles was the differenc between us and Republicans. We care, they don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. Say the Dalai Lama and the Tibetian's for instance?
http://www.dalailama.com/messages/compassion

I guess being a poverty stricken nation under a repressive regime isn't extreme enough for the "purity test".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Fraudulent pap and windy crap: I could freeze hamburger in the coldness of your logic...
... and cook it to ashes in the heat of your anger.

But I don't think I could feed a family with it.

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Well done.
:thumbsup:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. You said it Hannah! It is a attack on public services.
I thought democrats fought for public services. I thought that was a kind and compassionate thing to fight for.

Some can't see the forrest for the trees.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. I can only
speak for myself, of course, but I think most people here understand and appreciate the errors in the homeowner's thinking and actions. I am certainly not attempting to say that he was in any way right. The disagreements on DU about this are not about that.

I suspect that the majority of those who believe that the fire department should have attempted to put the fire out have more to do with the concept that their decision not to was a proper form of fighting for public services.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. IMHO, trying to twist "enablement" into "compassion" is a hijacking of meaning.
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 02:19 PM by liberation
BTW, I don't see any of the "concern" brigade donating to rebuild this poor man's house, or dropping everything to help his situation and rebuild the place.

Compassion, apparently, implies the expectation from others to do the actual work so that some of you can harp about it from your keyboards....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. He has received many offers of donations, actually, so I guess
the 'concern brigade' has come forward and are willing to help. However, the man has insurance and according to him they have been 'great' and were there quickly to assess the damage and get his house rebuilt.

As a result of the 'let's him a lesson' crowd, that Insurance Co. will now have to fork up a lot more money than they would have had the FD put out the fire. So I wonder who learned a lesson from all of this in the end? I don't think it worked the way it was supposed to, as these kind of actions rarely do.

They had two options which they turned down. Pay through taxes for a FD or provide a Volunteer FD as many other areas do. Both ideas were not acceptable to the Republicans there so they were voted down.

This isn't about one homeowner, his politics or any of that. It's about bad Republican ideas and it's a shame to see progressives supporting them. Because this never needed to happen had there been fewer rightwingers voting to 'force people to pay for themselves and to hell with everyone else'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. No wonder things are catching fire, with so many strawmen being thrown around...
So who exactly in this thread donated money and went over there to help this guy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Did you read the reports on this homeowner? He doesn't need
donations, the Insurance Co. is stuck with the bill. I would be more than happy to donate to him if he needed it but apparently, thanks to having insurance, he doesn't. But thanks to the fact that his house burned to the ground, everyone's premiums will likely go up. Great lesson they taught him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
55. They had the option to cover the cost of a FD through taxes.
They turned that down. They also turned down the idea of a volunteer FD. Seems like that whole area needs to do some re-evaluation of the kind of society they want to live in. Not just the home-owner.

The point is, when decisions are made for the 'common good', it is a given that some who many may feel are not deserving of it, will benefit also. Focusing on those people and deciding that well 'that rightwing bastard will benefit if we provide services to everyone else so let's not do it' would make for a pretty awful society.

This story isn't just about the homeowner, or even the county or the city involved. It is about society as a whole, and this situation gives people a glimpse into what kind of society it would be, if everyone was limited in their thinking to holding grudges against those who probably deserve it, but should not determine how things are done for everyone else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
44. Link please
You are making claims about what this man said, but you never offer quotes or cites. You say he said. So you are willing to say these things about him, but you are not willing to offer proof that he said what you say.
The 'let it burn' crowd has claimed many things they can not prove. They claim this farmer voted against fire protection, when he had no vote. A board voted 19 to 1 with on abstaining to make the policy they have. The let it burners claim the whole county voted, and the RATIO was 19 to 1. False.
Show us where he said what you claim he said. You claim he said it, prove it. Show a damn quote. You can not, because you are making it up. The let it burn crowd says the farmer 'refused' to pay. He says he forgot. The let it burn crowd has no evidence at all. And of course, they take another person's word as meaningless, compared to their ideological assumptions.
Sick, sick, sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. As I tried to point out in this post, it seems I am no longer a Democrat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
69. I so agree with you!
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 10:59 PM by JanusAscending
Not feeling well so I didn't bother to post what you just did, (before I went to bed last night) I stated that he said " he forgot to send in the payment" I can't document this statement either as fact, but I can tell you where I heard it.....from the mans mouth himself...on the KO show last night..where he was interviewed! You can check his website if ya need proof. I was hoping and praying that he had fire insurance, and I really hope some action is taken against this Town's leaders. Kudo's to you and to all who believe that we are our brothers keepers! and pity on you who feel "I've got mine...the hell with you".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
73. Hannah, something interesting turned up late yesterday...
on the housefire. There was a wind warning and a NO BURNING statement from Obion County.

The guy should not have been burning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Right.
The guy is absolutely guilty of making a stupid mistake that involved putting his home -- as well as any others nearby -- at an unacceptable risk level. There is no question about that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
38. You Must Then Be One Of The Lucky Ones Who Will Never Make A Mistake
Either in your actions or thought and thus will never have to worry about needing the help of others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. You are wrong. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. I agree with what you said.
Edited on Thu Oct-07-10 01:35 PM by BrklynLiberal
Enabling "Libertarian" scammers is not any better than "enjoying" seeing their house burn down.

Karma can be a real bitch. That is true for all of us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9274204&mesg_id=9274399

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. You mean like education or food assistance or health care?
"Enabling is doing things for someone that they can and should be doing for themselves."

Because that argument has been used by Conservatives and Republicans for years against various "social programs". And up until now, I thought all Democrats were united in the idea that we don't all have the capacity to do for ourselves; for reasons much too complex and systemic to name in the time and space in which I've got to post.

However there are literally hundreds of thousands of good sociology books and economic tomes on the subject.

If you read a few thousand and still feel the same way, get back to me and we can continue this discussion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. That is not the point, and you all know it.
If libertarians get to deal with the actual outcome of their proposals, maybe just maybe they will think twice before going gun ho with their utter lack of human empathy as their main driver in life.

Nobody is supporting the libertarian privatization or abolition of services, and you know it.

Expressing how it would be good for people who push for these policies to actually experience the policies themselves, so that they get to think twice and understand why us bleeding heart liberals have pushed and fought so hard for, is what the previous poster meant for "not enabling." A lot of you seem to have ill placed priorities when it comes to your "concern."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Beautiful post, H2O Man. Fire is a powerful thing, and you do it justice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R. Thank you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
voteearlyvoteoften Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. rec
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. The lodgepole pine evolved with fire, and fire is necessary for the serotinous cones to open.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Jimi Hendrix was the one who really inspired me to learn the guitar.
I eventually moved onto other genres, but he really got me going in the very beginning.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hi Bro. Waterman,
I just wanted to let you know that the situation in Sydney is too close to "home" for me!! I have been doing a lot of praying over this. I have cousins who live in Franklyn, and Sidney was the nearest "big" shopping area to them (back in the day at least) My people are mountain people, and have bigger hearts than some of these teabaggers seem to have. I'm wondering if some of them are transplants from other areas of the country? You need to almost be independantly wealthy to survive in the Catskills, cause there hasn't been much in the way of industry in the area in a Looong time. I'm thinking of Endicott Johnston, Corning Glassworks, and GE being gone for so long now!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. We had so much fire this summer here in Colorado
We do not properly understand fire, I imagine. We just take its power for granted yet fire seems to have its own will. It is like a Genie out of the bottle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. K and R.
Imagine if the original natives had hoarded their food and knowledge, allowing the new settlers to die? We may not have a United States of America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. Another wonderful piece, H20 Man.
I actually know many people that do not have $75.00. In fact, I know some that don`t have $7.00.

To hear real human beings here on DU and elsewhere justify a fire department standing by and watching a person`s home burn down over $75.00 makes me sick. What on earth has happened to us?

What if there had been children in that house?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. K & R
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. Another OP that shows wisdom and understanding.
At the heart of this is the feeling of some that need to punish those that don't "do right"
Compassion will have none of that and in fact true compassion is when someone does not do right and we still put out the fire for them.
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SnohoDem Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. One of Jimi's best
and one of your best too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. K & R
I was watching a documentary last night (Collapse) which mentioned an observation that Americans seem to be collectively working through the 5 stages of loss described by Kubler-Ross- denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then acceptance. Somehow it is comforting to to know that each of these stages is not permanent, there is a natural way to move through it without damaging others.

I have been reading a book called The Language of Emotions, by Karla McLaren, in it she says to honor our emotions as messengers, each one has a purpose. Denial is about distracting ourselves from pain, and anger is about boundaries, sadness is about letting go. There are not good emotions or bad ones, they are a large part of our language. I do not mean to condense all of her book into one sentence, but to observe that Americans could be expressing a lot of anger because our personal boundaries have been breached. We know our civil and human rights have been put on the table, and our future is at stake. I think it is most important now to channel this anger at the real culprits, and not at each other.

I was most proud of the One Nation march in DC because we showed solidarity, so much respect for each other and respect for President Obama. We need each other right now, there is much to do and we need to tighten our bonds with each other. Peace everyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
48. Well said!
Very thoughtful!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
57. K.... .......... .......... .............. ........ & ............... ............. ...............R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
58. k
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
59. You are a wise man, and that is a beautiful essay. Peace back to you.
O8)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
62. Your story warmed me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Were you sincere
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. I believe that Mr. Waterman well understands my meaning.

Look forward to seeing you in the next thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
63. Beautiful
Thanks and I will send good energy now for your meeting next week and hope that you will find as eloquent words to support the Muslim community as you have here.

:hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Thank you.
I have been putting a lot of thought into what I want to say at the meeting. And last night, my wife and I were even out looking for a new shirt & tie (I'm way color-blind, and dependent on family members for help in that area). Kind of reminds me of the good old days, picking out what trunks I would be wearing into the ring!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lisabeeen Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #64
72. ~some ramblings on the existence of "psychopaths",,,
indeed, you are going into "the ring" again....
and i can think of no better contender for this "round"......
i and so many others will be with you in spirit~~ thank you!

i am looking forward to your report of this important meeting~

here r a few of my thoughts after reading your post and some of the responses:

in all my work as a counselor/case manager/therapist in the past 25 or so years, i have yet to sit with a human being who really "does not care" at SOME level. Yes, it may be difficult to see that caring in some people--but in all cases in my experience, when I am able to learn abut their lives I am able to understand why they keep it so buried. Buried does NOT mean it doesn't exist. (Yes, that pertains to the remains of people's sacred items that prove their past physical existence as well as peoples' attempts to bury their psychic/spiritual/emotional pain so that they may physically endure through life.)

So i sometimes wonder: do true "psychopaths" exist? I know i am just a single person with a very limited experience of people---yet i have sat with hundreds of people in my life, including men who have battered their partners....parents who have abused their kids....men who have murdered...men who have killed other people in war...children who are cruel to animals to the point of torturing them and killing them. And yes some of these people are deeply disturbed----that is obvious in their struggles. I know that MANY of the people I have seen have done very horrible and violent things to others beyond what they share with me and maybe ANY human being. But when i ask myself if i have ever met someone who REALLY doesn't care about ANYthing....i am hard pressed to think of a single person. Have i just somehow "missed" the real "psychopaths"? Maybe. But....to me that doesn't seem as likely as the alternative(s).

I also wonder if the people who REALLY need help (i can hear some of you out there already, proclaiming certain individuals who you believe to be "psychopaths" who are in positions of power, etc....and who I also am tempted to categorize as such...) do not seek help. Obviously my "sample" of people is biased and does include people who found SOME reason to be sitting with a therapist...(and i worked with mandated people too, so they weren't there because they WANTED to be per se....) But they were feeling the consequences of their behaviors on some level. And that is a GOOD thing. We are all on a journey....together. At different levels at different times, of course.
Anyway---i apologize for the somewhat scattered response here, but thanks for this forum and thank you h20 man for lighting the fire in me to put in my 2 cents....
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-10 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
65. My heartfelt agreement. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC