Refusing to provide public safety services and a fee driven apparatus..

[MrScorpio]

Is an assault on the social contract and the general welfare.

The wealthy, who benefit most by such an assault, are laughing at the rest of us, while they're fat, secure and happy.

So sure, piss all over the people who are suffering under such an uncivilized system...

If trends continue as they are, we'll all get a taste of it.



That is, unless of course, you're rich enough not to have to worry about suffering at all.

[TalkingDog]

1. You and I seem to be on the same page. We're pointing out the

obvious flaws in that kind of thinking and my rec. to you went down the unrec hole.....

If we are only different from Republicans and Conservatives in name, what's the point?

[MrScorpio]

2. It's the devolution of civilized society...

Bit by bit.

[TalkingDog]

8. Out of the frying pan, into the fire

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9273293

[baldguy]

3. Refusing to provide public safety services and a fee driven apparatus..

Is the entire basis of the Republican party platform.

[Hannah Bell]

4. tell it to the county voters who are defunding public city services they refuse to pay for.

[JustAmused]

5. To the point

as always Hannah. You have a way of sweeping aside the histrionics and making the point very clear. I think that comes from actually reading and researching instead of reaching immediately for a soap box. Thanks again for your posts.

[MrScorpio]

7. Because, I'm sure, social darwinism knows no allegiance to party...

Right?

[Hannah Bell]

10. your op implies that it's the city fire department bringing social darwinism; it's not.

it's the voters & officials of the libertarian county WHO REFUSE TO PAY FOR FIRE PROTECTION.

That is the root cause.

and i can't help note that some of the same posters i find here yelling about compassion have previously show up in support of:

- school deform
- reducing GM workers' wages
- defending detroit's cutbacks of public service & policy of "planned shrinkage"

so it seems their compassion only comes out when a libertarian county refuses to pay to support a publicly-funded city fire dept.

[MrScorpio]

16. The root cause is to create an American society where worth equals wealth

The cutbacks and levying of fees for what had been public accommodations are symptoms of this trend.

[Hannah Bell]

21. the refusal of the libertarian county to fund public services is the cause.

the compassionate brigade wants to sweep that point under the rug & paint the city as the libertarians.

i wonder why?

the unincorporated county is bigger & wealthier than any city in the county. they can afford to fund a fire service.

[PVnRT]

Public accomodations still must be paid for

The point is that the residents of Obion county refuse to allow a tax to pay for them. If anyone is to blame, it's them.

[Pithlet]

24. That's it.

Why the city was supposed to suffer is still never really explained by anyone, either. The city is poorer, to boot! It doesn't help how the media has spun this story.

[MrScorpio]

6. That crap doesn't happen in a vacuum

It happens because it's PROMOTED.

[Hannah Bell]

11. indeed. who's promoting it? you think it's the city fire department promoting the county's non-

payment?

[Pithlet]

13. No. On the contrary. It would take some heavy promoting to get them to do otherwise.

It's a very conservative area. They vote ultra-conservtive, and it doesn't take much convincing to get them to do so.. They don't want to pay their taxes. They think it's evil socialism. You want them to pay taxes for services? You'd have to do an awful lot of convincing. I don't think it's happening.

[MrScorpio]

18. It's happening all over the country

Not just by way of the vote, but changes in the application of services too

Larger cities are cutting back those services... Expect PRIVATELY funded services to fill the gap eventually for those who have me means and are willing to pay.

Our capitalistic system allows and promotes such a trend.

[Pithlet]

20. No, it isn't. This is a rural firefighting issue, and that's been going on forever.

What happened in this rural area of Tennessee is an entirely different thing. I won't argue that the issues you're mentioning aren't real. I think the way the media is presenting the story is part of the problem.. Stinky tried to explain the whole rural firefighting thing yesterday but was shouted down. And this particular rural firefighting story was even worse than usual because it involved not one but two municipalities. One was draining the other. It was fueled by the fact that it happened in a red state where rural voters tend to be uber right wing tax phobes who don't want to fund anything.

Yes, I won't argue what you're saying. We have to defend against the whole privatization thing, and this could definitely be used as an example of what could happen with privatization. But this would happen even if we had the most liberal President and Congress in power. Red Tennesee is Red Tennessee. It's a cultural thing.

[Junkdrawer]

23. For Example: Charter Schools vs. Public Schools. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

17. Privatization is a real problem. The TN instance may be one where...

the county shares the lion's share of the blame, but the whole incident sets a bad precedent in that it helps normalize the idea of fire protection as a fee-for-service.

[Hannah Bell]

30. that's my feeling about the spin on the media reports. neither the "left" or "right"

media is pointing out the root problem, the jurisdiction issues, etc.

they just treat fee-for-service as normal, & elide the city's public funding through taxation v. the county's fee system.

then they set up this phony dichotomy of "compassion" v. "personal responsibility".

note: not *county-level* responsibility, but *individual-level* responsibility. the whole libertarian schtick.

you can't be compassionate under a libertarian regime. it's suicide. you will drown in the need that it creates.

[Pithlet]

9. If they were only hurting themselves, fine.

But this was affecting the city, who's fire department was over and over again providing this service to them and not getting paid. What were they supposed to do? Keep doing it and lose that fire department? They finally said look, we have to get paid. This was the inevitable outcome. They finally drew the line, because the county kept pushing this issue. This wasn't their fire department. This was a fire department from a separate commuity, who DID pay their taxes. We aren't demanding that some teabaggers have to get punished. That's not what's happening here.

[MrScorpio]

12. AS we have seen, the implications of this trend are reaching far beyond one FD in TN

It's spreading across the country.

It's the stuff that the Randians, Grover Norquist and the Cato Institute have been promoting from years.

The corporate offshoring destroyed jobs and the tax base, as well as the anti-labor forces and Wall Street which has encouraged the race to the bottom for the poor and middle classes as they pump up the wealthy's coffers.

The goal has always been to destroy the power of government and they're succeeding by destroying public sector services.

What happened in TN is just a small clue about the extent of the bigger picture.

[Pithlet]

14. No. These are extreme people They've been doing it this ways for years.

They're just getting a lot of attention in the media now, with the teabagger movement. But this is nothing new.

[MrScorpio]

19. I'm sure that there are people who are planning to profit from this loss of the public sector

They're doing it right now.

Look at the entire system of private, for profit prisons.

Only a naive person would think that the devolution of the public sector would stop just there.

[Pithlet]

22. Look. I live here. I know how it goes around here.

I know what I'm talking about. :)

[MrScorpio]

26. With the loss of jobs so widespread, I doubt that your area will stay unique

It's going to spread. More municipalities will surely adopt similar plans, if they already haven't.

And MONEY, not politics, will be the driving factor.

In the past, publicly assessed taxes to provide for public services have always been the great leveling force of society.

It was created because private fees for what should be public services were not only unfair, but created a danger to public safety as a whole. Just look what happened in NYC during the time of the Fire Badge era.

Now we're turing back the clock in this country,

It'll end up creating a society that only values the safety of the wealthy while everyone else suffers, if this trend is allowed to continue.

[Pithlet]

29. And no matter what happens, either way, Red State Tennessee will keep on rolling

just the way it is. That's my point. This wasn't a symptom of anything other than Tennessee being Tennessee. By the way, just for the record, there are so many inaccuracies about this story floating around on DU. I see a lot of condemning about totally inaccurate facts. Basically, the city is being unfairly trashed. I do feel bad for the homeowner the same way I feel bad for anyone who lost their home. But the whole thing could have been prevented.

[Junkdrawer]

15. Agreed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9260920

[KittyWampus]

25. You realize there are a lot of struggling people who WANT that uncivilized system, don't you?

You have to convince those people they are voting against their own self interest.

Not easy.

[MrScorpio]

27. It's mind boggling

Truly mind boggling, I know.

[TexasObserver]

28. recommend