Fire Chief Reavis: New plan being considered will reduce fire protection coverage in Obion County.

[LiberalAndProud]

http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=47109

Reavis said the towns and fire departments have been in negotiations with the Obion County Commission and the county mayor for more than four years trying to resolve the rural fire protection issue. “A comprehensive plan to develop and implement an Obion County Fire Department was presented to the Obion County Commission over two years ago. The intent of the plan, presented by the municipal fire departments, was to eliminate subscription response and replace it with a tax- or fee-based funding for the fire departments and provide rural fire protection to all residents.
“I want to stress that this fire coverage issue belongs to the Obion County government and the citizens of Obion County, it is not exclusively the problem of the eight towns and fire departments providing rural fire protection for the county residents.”
...
“Fire departments know the rural subscription program is not the best fire service delivery method, but our county leaders have left us with no other option for the rural property owners to pay their fair share of the cost and expense associated with operating and maintaining our fire departments.”
Reavis said the plan which is being developed will not expand, but reduce, the fire protection coverage in five of the eight fire districts in Obion County unless every single property owner signs up for the subscription program
...
“If you are concerned about your fire protection, you should contact your county leaders to voice your concerns and opinions as to how you want to pay your share of the rural fire protection expense, otherwise, we will have no choice but to expand rural fire subscription response throughout the entire county, not just in South Fulton, Union City and Kenton areas,” Reavis said.

The man has been fighting fires for 35 years. He isn't heartless, but he's been left no choice. I am really alarmed at the villification of the FD in this case. They want the system to change and are powerless to change it. And they only see it getting worse in the near future.

This is horrific on so many levels.

Edit: I forgot the link. So sorry!

[Hannah Bell]

1. k & r. good luck trying to convince the compassionate crowd.

they think you get $600K pumper trucks at yard sales & pay for them with pancake breakfasts.

[seabeyond]

3. but county deserves FREE fire service whereas people across the nation pay. nt

[HughMoran]

32. Compassion is for losers

Despising liberals is not what many of us are about.

[Hannah Bell]

34. compassion is free; pumper trucks cost $600K.

[HughMoran]

36. $600k? I thought they were $75?

:crazy:

[Hannah Bell]

41. a pumper truck?

a pumper truck is a fire truck that can carry water & pump it under pressure, a necessity in a lot of rural areas where there are no fire hydrants, no city water, most people have individual wells & there's not enough water pressure to run the fire hoses.

[seabeyond]

2. that damn municipal FD trying to find solutions to another counties fire problems

to ensure THEIR safety. how dare he attack the victims like this

[peacebird]

4. had the fire department gone against protocal and PUT OUT THE FIRE

then they would have been the good guys and everyone would praise them.

But sitting by and watching a house burn down when they were offered thousands of dollars to save it..?

They look like petulant bastards intent on inflicting as much pain and damage as possible - gangsterlike really, "Pay us our protection money or F you"

[Hannah Bell]

5. they put out fires for free for 20 years. and more than half the folks in the county never paid

when they billed them.

your solution is they keep doing it until they go broke.

[Pithlet]

6. And what do they do the next time?

And the time after that? Do you think they were going to get offered thousands of dollars every time, and actually get it? I don't think so. So there was really no way for them to avoid the scorn and judgment of those that watched when media got the juicy story of this inevitability. They really couldn't avoid this.

[distantearlywarning]

11. I think the Queens, NY fire department holds some responsibility in this too, don't you?

I mean, if they weren't holding Obion County's fire protection hostage for the money it costs to transport fire trucks from NY to Tennessee, then this would never have happened. Damn that NY fire mafia, asking people all over the nation to pay protection money or have their houses set on fire without any Queens, NY fire trucks showing up or anything! It's enough to make you want to cry. :cry:

(In case you missed the point...it is not the responsibility of the city fire department, paid for by city taxes, to fight fires anywhere but the city where taxes to support them are paid, anymore than it is the responsibility of the Queens, NY, fire department to fight fires anywhere but Queens, NY. If they have been doing so thus far, it has been out of the goodness of their heart. I support their decision to stop contributing their services to people who have no interest in supporting the public service they provide with public monies.)

[Fumesucker]

13. If they had done what you say, no one would have known..

It would never have made the news except possibly a single line or so in the county weekly.

[JoeyT]

24. Not quite.

More likely they would've never collected on that thousands of dollars. Contracts made under duress aren't enforceable. You don't get much more under duress than watching your house burn.

The $75 fee is important too. The money isn't that big a deal. What it does is contractually guarantee the firefighters the right to put your house out since it's outside their jurisdiction. Even if the guy agreed to it on the spot, contracts made under duress aren't binding. You'd be surprised how often firefighters get sued. If they're breaking ANY rules they can easily lose.

They weren't protecting their massive $75 protection racket. They were protecting themselves from a water damage or other lawsuit that could easily have been in the tens of thousands of dollars. A lawsuit they probably would have lost because they acted outside their jurisdiction without written consent and without one of the other very specific cases they can act outside their jurisdiction happening. (Life in danger, danger of the fire spreading and causing massive damage, by the request of the local FD, etc.) If a person had been inside to be rescued they would have gone in and gotten them if it was possible. That wouldn't have opened them up to lawsuits, since the life of a person takes priority over anything else.

Edited to add: Speaking as VFD, I wouldn't have put it out either. And I don't get paid anything at all for it, so I certainly couldn't afford a lawsuit that involved lawyers. :)
It's kind of like the doctors that are afraid to stop and help someone that's been in a car accident. It's a lot like that, actually. The fear of being sued for helping someone got so bad a bunch of places actually had to pass laws forcing citizens to help someone. So it isn't like the guy wouldn't have sued them out of gratitude or anything.

[Hannah Bell]

27. important points.

[WolverineDG]

52. They'd already been on the losing end of that proposition one time too many nt

[whistler162]

62. No.... then there would have been no story and no

possibility of fixing the problem.

STATUS QUO continued!

[depakid]

7. "He isn't heartles"

On that, we'll have to beg to differ.

[Hannah Bell]

12. This isn't the South Fulton fire chief, shows how much your uninformed comments are worth.

It's the chief of the Hornbeak (pop 435) fire dept, which has the same problem with the deadbeat county.

They used to provide free service to the county. In light of what's happened:

Reavis said the plan which is being developed will not expand, but reduce, the fire protection coverage in five of the eight fire districts in Obion County unless every single property owner signs up for the subscription program.

Reavis said Obion County does not operate a fire department, does not own any fire equipment or have any firefighting personnel. “Consequently, you are provided fire protection by the municipal fire departments,” he said.

“None of your county property tax dollars help fund any of the eight municipal fire departments. All fire departments are individually owned and operated by the eight municipalities.

“Firefighters in Obion County provide protection outside our municipal limits with the permission of our individual city and town councils that represent the municipal taxpayer.

“Over 85 percent or more of all our fire calls are in the rural areas of Obion County. All repairs, maintenance and operating budgets are provided to the municipal fire departments from their municipal budgets paid by the municipal taxpayer.

“Most of us are volunteer and most of us receive no pay for the hundreds of hours of work we perform in the fire service each year.

[depakid]

17. Spare us the wisecracks -this statement is representative of the guy's nature:

and frankly, I'm glad we don't have many (if anyone) like this around here:

First, we regret that the Cranick home burned as a result of not paying a rural fire subscription. Second, let me say this tragedy was not the fault of the South Fulton fire department or the city of South Fulton, but rather, it was the failure of the Cranick family not to pay their subscription," said Reavis.

Indeed, if there were someone who behaved or made statements like this, their life (quite literally) wouldn't be worth very much.

[Hannah Bell]

20. "their life wouldn't be worth much" -- oh, real-ly? is that a threat?

sounds like a teabagger.


no problem, you'll get your wish. county's going to get *no* fire protection unless the cities get 100% compliance.

[DURHAM D]

25. Don't bother with poster -

He/she probably doesn't know the difference between a county and a municiplaity...

Also, likely does not pay property taxes.

You can't win on the facts if they don't/can't understand the facts.

And on another note - I have noticed that some of the people who were passionately arguing against the fire department and for the burner have now changed their tune. Your detailed post helped a lot with that.

[Hannah Bell]

26. good to hear, thanks.

[depakid]

37. Nope, it's a statement of fact about what would likely happen around here

if this guy went around making statements like that- or if a fire brigade sat there and willingly let a house burn down over a $75.00 fee.

You see, that's an American thing- we don't do that type of vile and heartless shit. We put out the fire and sort whatever the rest is out later.

and btw: memo to Durham, here they're called rates- or council rates, and in addition, many of the rural firefighting services are volunteer.

[Hannah Bell]

46. there is only 1 paid firefighter in south fulton's fire dept per news reports.

the chief.

volunteer fire depts cost money.

the county won't pay.

you can repeat the moral crap all you want.

moral people don't ask others to foot their bills when they have the means to pay.

particularly not people who have less money than they do.

[Hannah Bell]

8. Note that this isn't the South Fulton chief: this is the Hornbeak chief, speaking in

in support of the South Fulton fire dept.

Hornbeak has a population of 435: and a fire department paid for by its residents' taxes.


Reavis called media together Wednesday evening so he could address rural residents in Obion County and explain the facts about the rural fire coverage situation in the county.

Reavis said Obion County does not operate a fire department, does not own any fire equipment or have any firefighting personnel. “Consequently, you are provided fire protection by the municipal fire departments,” he said.

“None of your county property tax dollars help fund any of the eight municipal fire departments. All fire departments are individually owned and operated by the eight municipalities.

“Over 85 percent or more of all our fire calls are in the rural areas of Obion County. All repairs, maintenance and operating budgets are provided to the municipal fire departments from their municipal budgets paid by the municipal taxpayer.

“Most of us are volunteer and most of us receive no pay for the hundreds of hours of work we perform in the fire service each year.

“Negotiations with the Obion County Commission and the county mayor have been ongoing for over four years in an attempt to resolve this issue. Our county government has repeatedly steered our fire departments and towns toward the subscription-based response program, and the Obion County government has mandated by a vote in the county commission stating that rural fire protection will only be established by a subscription program,” he said.

Reavis said the plan which is being developed will not expand, but reduce, the fire protection coverage in five of the eight fire districts in Obion County UNLESS EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY OWNER SIGNS UP FOR THE SUBSCRIPTION PROGRAM.

http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=47109

[DURHAM D]

28. Good job. He could not of explained it any clearer.

If the free-loaders out in the county don't get it now I guess he will have to try hand puppets and cut-outs.

[LLStarks]

9. Fire "Chief Reavis"

Subscriptions are wrong for this type of thing. A paltry .13 percent tax rise would cover everyone.

[Hannah Bell]

14. um, tell it to the county. the fire chief of hornbeak CITY has no authority to levy taxes on

obion COUNTY.

Obion COUNTY refuses to levy taxes to fund fire protection.

[Fumesucker]

15. I am astounded at how many people fail to understand very simple concepts..

And get quite simple facts dead wrong..

I really thought better of DUers but this particular subject has rung some emotional bells that have utterly deafened some people.

[Hannah Bell]

16. i think they must be city slickers. concept of separate city/county jurisdictions

& taxing/legal authorities seems entirely foreign to them.

doesn't grok.

[Fumesucker]

19. I'm not sure about that..

This has been explained more than practically any subject I can recall in the recent past here and people are still making the same fallacious arguments from the same utterly incorrect premises..

Doesn't want to grok is more like it for many I think.

[Hannah Bell]

21. could be. i tend to assume the best of people. :>)

[Fumesucker]

23. You know what they say about assumptions...

[seabeyond]

31. i never got that. cause a person assumes. they are the wrong one. i didnt do anything so why am i

included in being an ass

[tblue37]

43. You are assuming they are reading the factual posts and then ignoring the facts.

I think they have their opinions and don't bother reading other people's posts, especially those that might contradict their oponions with facts, before posting their opiinions.

[Fumesucker]

45. Eh, I've gone back and forth over dozens of posts with enough people by now..

To know that they should have some hint of a ghost of a clue..

Not everyone for sure but a goodly number.

[LiberalAndProud]

33. Chief Reavis agrees with you.

He is advocating (almost begging) for a property tax or a mandatory fee. He doesn't make the laws, but he has to live with them.

[LLStarks]

10. edit: oops duplicate

duplicate

[TK421]

18. I am now convinced this subject has outdone the great cheese sandwich war n/t

[seabeyond]

22. lol, someone compared it to susan boyle thread. though i didnt partiipate in either

the cheese or boyle threads.

[Fumesucker]

38. Thankfully I never saw the cheese threads..

And I don't own a TV so I have no idea what Ms Boyle looks or sound like, hence I have no opinion and no reason to have participated in those threads..

[HuckleB]

29. 84...

[seabeyond]

30. nu uh. you added a couple numbers cause you thought you missed some

own up

[HuckleB]

35. Nope.

Not even close. And I'm only counting GD.

[seabeyond]

39. wink. nt

[seabeyond]

40. actually, i appreciate your count. i thought i was obsessing. but i have only been in 6, 7

maybe 8, 9 of these threads. hell, that is a good 70 i have not been in. i feel so much better wasting two days on these. lol

[IMATB]

42. Who puts out the fire

when the fire station burns ?

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20101007/NEWS03/101007005/UPDATED-Business-as-usual-for-firefighters

[thelordofhell]

44. I will from here on in call Obion County.......Ayn Rand County

It seems the only way people will understand the situation is to equate it to a nincompoop of the highest order. This is about Democratic Cities vs. Libertarian Counties. I side 100% with the Cities.

[Hannah Bell]

47. good way to put it. maybe some of the posters here calling the city libertarian

will get a clue.

[Tsiyu]

48. It's bizarre when you remember

that the cost of your homeowner's insurance is related partly to the competence and proximity of your local fire department.

Most homeowners would save money on their insurance to more than offset any tax levied for nearby, responsive fire protection.

And they'd have the security of knowing their homes were more safe.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

[JI7]

49. I'm not blaming the Fire Department, i blame the system put in place

why have such a system of funding in the first place ? things like police protection, fire protection etc should not be up to a vote or choice.

[cemaphonic]

50. I agree about the villification of the FD

The only reason that Olbion county has *any* fire protection service is because the FD (and by extension, the citizens of their actual jurisdiction) have been hugely subsidizing the cost for decades, not to mention risking their lives. And in all likelihood, the main reason for this is because they are compassionate people that don't want to watch their neighbors suffer. Then, when they decide that they really can't afford to keep doing that anymore, they're cast as heartless, petty assholes who care more about a nominal fee than a destroyed house.

[WolverineDG]

51. Because many here feel they should put out the fires out of the goodness of their hearts

regardless of what it costs. They'd rather the citizens of the towns go bankrupt paying higher & higher taxes to support the freeloaders because that's the "moral" thing to do.



dg

[LiberalAndProud]

53. It's the way the story was framed, I think.

"Firefighters watch house burn"

The framing was blatantly biased, designed to inflame emotions and ignite indignation. I should say quite successfully, too.

[Hannah Bell]

54. yep. the chief that spoke today said even his dept had got hundreds of emails,

calls, etc. vilifying them.

i read some of the letters -- most of them didn't have a clue about anything

whatever they say, most people believe the media & don't bother to research anything.

not only believe the facts presented: ACCEPT THE FRAMING AS GIVEN.

This is the most pernicious bit. It takes a lot of new facts to get people to shift their frame.

[Fumesucker]

57. I think this was one of the most interesting topics to come along here in a while..

I found myself disagreeing with people I normally agree with and vice versa to a highly unusual extent..

Of course some things never change, BzaDem and I disagreed vehemently and at considerable length.. :)

Come to think of it I can only recall having one major disagreement with you, Hannah, that was over the school webcam picture thing..

[Hannah Bell]

58. did we disagree? my major problem with that story was the folks who claimed the school was a nest

of pedophiles who were using the webcams to randomly peep at naked kids.

up to & including, one claimed, janitors stealing keys so they could go into computer rooms & jack off on the keyboards while they watched the naked kiddies, & the female vice-principal being a voyeur.

it was a good example of witch-hunting hysteria. & some serious sex obsession on the part of a few folks, in a really creepy way.

i thought the policy was wrong & said so on various occasions, but it didn't matter.

some people don't do nuance. if you don't buy into their hysteria totally, you're an enemy.

[Fumesucker]

60. I thought it was creepy..

I wasn't convinced it was sexual but the whole thing upset me because I have grandchildren close to that age.

Voyeurism isn't always about sex per se I think so much as simply a control freak thing, that's what I got from the story.

It didn't get nasty between us but I thought you were accepting the school's story a bit too easily, thanks to personal experience I'm very distrustful of school administrators in general.

[Hannah Bell]

61. i don;t doubt the school may have spied on individual kids for various reasons -- or on faculty.

but not to get their rocks off.

where schools are concerned, that kind of thing is typically one individual, not nests of people sharing photos and having circle-jerks in the computer room.

but i don't think school administrators are any more dishonest or sneaky or lying than administrators as a group.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

55. This guy must be spelling his own name wrong.

Since he apparently enjoys watching fires burn, his name must actually be Chief Beavis

[LiberalAndProud]

56. He wasn't there. He's another fire chief working under that same insane system.

So cut the snark about enjoying watching fires burn. If anyone has a pyro streak it's the kid that started the fire.

[Hannah Bell]

59. i was speculating that the earlier fire at the kid's house might have had similar causes.

just idle speculation.

it sure is a fire-prone family. two in a matter of three years, i think it was.