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Conservativism IS a religion

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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:56 AM
Original message
Conservativism IS a religion
Many people might be baffled by the fact that conservatives and the religious right have formed such a tight relationship over the past 30 years. The religious right lean toward the economic populist side, and would greatly benefit fiscally from a Democratic Congress and Presidency. Yet they are bound at the hip by those that screw them over. Those that want to encourage American corporations to outsource jobs to China, and those that are in favor of giving more burdens to the middle-class in an effort to support tax cuts for the richest 1%.

Why, then, is there this seemingly contradictory partnership between the religious right and economic conservatives? What thread do they actually have in common?

The answer is that both religion and conservativism rely on faith instead of facts. And a certain type of person is psychologically and mentally susceptible to believing in things that just aren't true. On one side, you have people who believe an invisible bearded man lives in the sky and sits on a throne of clouds and casts spells on people on earth. On the other, you have unquestioning beliefs in things that never existed, such as the belief that tax cuts for the rich "trickle down" to the poor, and that rich people in this country are taxed more than they ever have been. One side believes that dinosaurs never existed, and that the earth was created in a week. The same movement believes both that global warming is a conspiracy theory and that people on welfare live like royalty. Both conservatives and the religious right believe in fiscal conservativism, yet they believe that the US should spend all the money it can in an effort to conquer the world militarily.

The common thread running through these people is that their minds require no proof, no factual evidence, and no rationality in order to put 100% of their weight behind a proposition that governs their entire life. They throw their entire souls behind ideologies that have no evidentiary value whatsoever. They're constantly living and dealing in the realm of the unprovable -- in the realm of the non-factual. The entire modern conservative movement is based on assumptions that are not only untrue, but absurd. Reducing taxes for the rich is good for the poor? An imaginary man invented in stories 6,000 years old says we have to legislate discriminaion when it comes to marriage? Science (the same discipline that brought you the combustion engine, the nuclear reactor, and the plasma TV that allows you to fix your soul on Fox News) is a conspiracy theory and/or simply a belief system, but Barack Obama is a Muslim born in Africa?

If you've ever argued with a conservative, you'd know: facts have no effect upon them.

Think about that when thinking about voting this upcoming election. This isn't about whether Obama and Democrats are liberal enough. This is about whether we can keep this country out of the hands of the people who put blind faith over facts. Staying home and not voting is like giving power to people who would put on a blindfold and drive an SUV at top speed down a pedestrian-heavy street with their hands folded and saying to that invisible bearded man in the sky: "God please make sure I don't hit anyone and guide me to safety."

When it comes to people's lives, I chose to live with my eyes open. I choose to vote Democrat.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. A Perfect Connection.
Dead-on. They can't and won't learn anything that conflicts with their desire-based beliefs.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Very Sound, Sir
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Religion is Conservatism
the reverse is also true...

in the US these days...
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Everything is a religion.
Name any aspect of human thought - there is a belief system that underlies it, and therefore it is a religion. Anything.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not true.
Almost all religions require the belief in one or more unseen deities. Almost all include a God that is ACTIVE in the world, even though unseen. Each also usually includes some set of dogmatic behaviors that the "believer" must follow.

The argument that "everything is a religion" is usually used as a right wing talking point that is intended to elevate religion to the level of various scientific endeavors as a method for objectively describing events in the world.

From "everything is a religion", the right then claims that the study of evolution is a "religion", just like their own religious beliefs are a religion, and therefore, both are appropriate in a science class.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. he is much closer to the target
than you give him/her credit.

anything that does not allow for direct observation requires a certain amount of faith.

in politics this is doubly or triply so: folks have a belief system that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to prove that ideology is "correct". members try to recruit/convert others to their cause (evangelism). if you deviate from the orthodoxy you are punished.

take DU as an example: to be a member of this congregation you must profess and act on a progressive ideology (a catechism), stray from the orthodoxy and you are censured (directed to go forth and sin no more) and ultimately if you continue in your heretical ways, banned (excommunicated). Sounds like a church with it's dogma doesn't it?

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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I would suggest that what you describe is a "belief system" not a "religion"
Religions also almost always explain what happens to you after you die. We can objectively know what happens to your body, we have direct evidence of its decomposition. An actual religion will have some explination for what happens to "you".

As for DU ... all you described is a group of people with similar interests sharing ideas. And to be "banned" from DU is to be banned from the "community" ... you are not subjected to eternal damnation, another common religious concept. Even if one is banned from DU, they don't go to hell, aren't excommunicated from other Democratic communities, etc.

And actually, to be on DU, you don't have to profess anything. You can join an dlurk. And no one demands that you post. Religions don't only expect adherence to the rules, they also demand that you perform specific actions, usually at some regular intervals (confession, prayer, etc).

Another way to think of it ... if everything was "religion", than nothing is. It becomes a useless concept. Redundant. Unnecessary.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. what is a religion
but a belief system of something whose precepts can't possibly be proven as right/correct?

politics is a belief system that also can't be proven right
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. kind of true
politics is a belief system that also can't be proven right


Certain underlying assumptions CAN be proven wrong, such as "tax cuts for the rich create jobs."
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. According to you, I would suggest, a religion is nothing.
The term, as you want to use it, serves no purpose.

A political "belief system" need never refer to a "God" ... a religion must.

A political "belief system" need not describe an "after life" ... a religion must.

A political "belief system" need not ascribe the cause of events to an "unobservable entity".

A political "belief system" need not try to define how "life began" ... a religion must.

And again ... if you think that all "belief systems" are also "religions" than RELIGION has no "special meaning" ... and ... I'd argue, no reason for a TAX EXEMPT status.

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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. There is no objective reality.
Every form of thought involves beliefs that underlie it, including western science. Science is just another one of the religions. This is not a right-wing talking point, it is basic episetmology.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. not really
Science is on a higher level than religion, because it takes nothing for granted, and requires proof. Science encourages you to question it, challenge it, improve it, correct its wrongs, and change it. It is a constantly evolving set of conclusions arrived at through a structured way of thinking.

Religions mostly forbid all these things, and encourage unquestioned belief in things that have little to no factual value. Religions don't evolve: the same stories that were told 6,000 years ago are still told today, even as the world around them has evolved to prove that they don't make any sense.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Does not make them a "religion"
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's also why they believed Iraq had WMDs.
The Neocons had no problem selling the "Iraq has WMDs" story to the religious right for similar reasons. And even though we now know for a fact that Iraq had no WMDs, most right wingers still to this day think they did. It probably helped that Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslim countries.

A key "agreement" between the GOP's war hawks and the religious right is that both wants its world view to spread and dominate the earth. The neocons plan to do it via war (PNAC has said as much), while the religious right plans to spread its narrow religious world view such that everyone must follow it.

That's why we continue to see an endless stream of screaming from the right about the "evil Muslims" on TV these days.

The GOP's masters understand that causing the faithful to hate the Muslims plays directly into their endless war plans. And the right's faithful eat it up because they see the Muslims as standing in the way of Christian (mainly Evangelical Baptist really) domination of the world.
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A wise Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not a Religion.....
more like a "CULT"...evil,demonic,greedy,hateful,bigoted etc.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. .... and rightous, and justified in their actions ...
because their actions are authorized by God.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. politics and religion
opposite sides of the same coin.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. A very succinct analysis, right on point. +1! /nt
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. UNREC for lack of originality......
Edited on Fri Oct-08-10 08:07 AM by whistler162
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. I've been saying this for years. You just said it much better.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. Any kind of group think or group identity can mimic religion.
Edited on Fri Oct-08-10 11:18 AM by LWolf
Or, religion is simply one of many kinds of group think and group identities, all of whom have some similar characteristics.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. I agree with everything but the last paragraph.
I am steadfastly refusing to vote this election cycle.
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