SOLIDARITY

[Panaconda]

"International solidarity is “not an act of charity but an act of unity between allies fighting on different terrains toward the same objectives.”

- Samora Machel

“Unlike solidarity, which is horizontal and takes place between equals, charity is top-down, humiliating those who receive it and never challenging the implicit power relations.”

- Eduardo Galeano

"Solidarity is not a matter of altruism. Solidarity comes from the inability to tolerate the affront to our own integrity of passive or active collaboration in the oppression of others, and from the deep recognition of our most expansive self-interest. From the recognition that, like it or not, our liberation is bound up with that of every other being on the planet, and that politically, spiritually, in our heart of hearts we know anything else is unaffordable."

- Aurora Levins Morales

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

!!

[Oceansaway]

2. K&R...n/t

[Xipe Totec]

3. K&R

[horseshoecrab]

4. K&R n/t

[Panaconda]

5. Solidarity

What used to be natural has now been conditioned out of us. Capitalism trains us to reject solidarity and demands we become rapacious individualists vying in the rat race for crumbs.

[Cal Carpenter]

6. It's true

People are convinced that greed is natural. But it's a result of the conditions we are in, it's a result of the system under which we live. A system that rewards greed, and will never allow most people to have more than crumbs.

Solidarity.

[RandomThoughts]

8. Only becuase some think that most should have crumbs.

And from that they rationalize what is wrong.

And because some think all they are allowed to have is crumbs, and do not stand up for what is already theirs if they simply claim it.


Crumbs from the tables is a comment with a bias from long ago, it is in the Bible.

And shows a contradiction with message of good Samaritan, and shows the concept of argument. And if some mind can be changed by argument then either the mind was not thinking of all the factors, or the mind wants people to stand up for what they should have.

[Cal Carpenter]

9. If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time.

But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.

- Aboriginal activists group, Queensland, 1970s

[RandomThoughts]

12. Great quote.

It keeps the flanks tied in, knowing that a person should have a balance of self and also helping others. So helping others should not go against your self goals, and self goals should find a way to help others.

That quote is like the idea of holding the balance in keeping yourself from being turned against what you think is better by acting for self. Or forgetting about ones own goals while trying to do better in larger contexts. It is part of not being divided against ones own goals or better thoughts also.

Many small groups moving the same direction.

If it is not against you it is for you.

It all makes sense in the that comment also. Great quote.


It also requires thinking that the good for many people is also good for the individual, game theory win win, instead of zero sum gain hurting other people to get an advantage. Nash got kicked around hard for getting that paper out, glad he won the Nobel, and that Ron made that movie about him.

[Cal Carpenter]

18. I'm glad you like it

Here's to a somewhat coherent exchange with Random Thoughts :toast:

Gotta conquer the divides.

[hfojvt]

16. most people in the US have considerable crumbs

I think you over-state things.

[Cal Carpenter]

17. This thread is about solidarity

not 'I got mine, screw you'. If you'll notice, the first word in the body of the OP is 'International'.

And I think you understate things. Our media and our politicians understate things. Someone needs to state the truth once in a while. And if we throw in a little hyperbole while we're at it then so fucking what, at least it's not lies.

Whatever crumbs we are being thrown now are being eroded. Even here in the US.

Collapse in Living Standards in America
More than 15 million Americans are unemployed, homelessness has increased by 50 percent in some cities, and 38 million people are receiving food stamps, more than at any time in the program’s almost 50-year history.Evidence of rising economic hardship is ample.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9294926#9295030


The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and multiplying.

Some quick facts:

--The gap between the top 0.01% and everyone else hasn't been this bad since the Roaring Twenties.

--Half of America owns only 2.5% of country's wealth. The top 1% owns a third of it.

--Half of America has only 0.5% of America's stocks and bonds. The top 1% owns more than 50%!

This was a result of a quick google, the source may not be the best but all the info and graphs at the link are backed up:

15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/us-wealth-inequality-2010-7#ixzz124NVdK2V
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-wealth-inequality-2010-7

[maryf]

20. 15 mind blowing facts...

should be an op? Let me know if you make it one...good rejoinder, and thanks for the kick by extension! Solidarity!

[hfojvt]

21. who said anything about 'screw you'?

But the fact of the matter is that I have spent most of my working life since 1986 in the bottom quintile. With 80% of the country making more money than me. Yet I can look around this home that I own and I see two desktops in front of me and a TV and 60 DVDs and 50 videos to my left. Shelves of books, and three dogs and piles of magazines.

If I can have considerable property and toys from the bottom quintile then what does that say about the 50% of the country that is above the median income?

And international? That's kinda my point. Americans, of all people, most of them, should not complain about having only crumbs.

[bobbolink]

22. Screw the children and elders who are hungry and sick.

Gotta love those democratic values of yours.... sounds like a migration from the other side of the aisle.

[hfojvt]

24. and apparently you are willing to ignore people who are middle aged.

What did I say about screwing? Pointing out that many Americans (such as the ones in the 60th to 95th percentiles) can eat very well from their "crumbs" does not imply anything about the needy. In fact, quite the opposite, as it implies that many people who are not that needy should quit whining just because the upper .01% has so much more.

[bobbolink]

25. your whole Oprah post of "Look at me... I did it well, so why can't you?"

was quite the triumph in "fuck you".

"I've always been poor and have so many nice things... if you tried hard enough, you could do it, too."

:puke:

[hfojvt]

29. that must be your guilty conscience talking

because it has nothing to do with what I wrote. I never wrote that line "if you tried hard enough, you could do it, too". You just inferred it.

What I wrote was a response to someone saying that the system "will never allow most people to have more than crumbs" which is just plain ridiculous and should be really insulting to anybody who really is poor. "Most people" are in the 20 - 90th percentile of income. Correct? That's 70% of all Americans. Do you think they all just have 'crumbs'? Somebody in the 70th percentile who makes $70,000 a year just has crumbs? Somebody in the 83rd percentile who makes $97,000 a year just has crumbs?

Ridiculous and insulting to suggest such a thing. Most of those people are living quite well on that many crumbs. And yes, if I can live decently on $14,000 a year then I do feel that the 50% who make between $40,000 and $150,000 that many of them can live quite well too on their supposed 'crumbs'.

[bobbolink]

33. Your projection is talking.

Your whole post, and ones before it, show an inflated ego.

You've put it out there for all to see.

It must be nice to be so far above everyone else.

[hfojvt]

34. okay, I guess if I was not so vain

I would just admit that people making $40,000 to $150,000 are just as poor as homeless people. All they have is crumbs. Crumbs.

[maryf]

26. And maybe they should start pushing the upper crust to provide for the needy

as they are more able to do the pushing? It's the comfortable who really need to push for the needy, but for the grace of whatever go they...The wealth needs to be much more equitably shared, the comfortable middle are a good barometer for where all maybe should be?

[bobbolink]

28. Naw, I keep getting told that *I* need to do the pushing... I'm not doing enough; just sitting and

watching the soaps and eating bon-bons. Got another one of those today.

Those who can look around at all they own don't have to be bothered.

Somewhere along the line, this party went to the dogs. And those are about the only ones they care about... the dogs.

[blindpig]

15. yep...

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the
class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its
ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material
production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of
mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those
who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas
are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material
relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence
of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the
ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class
possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar,
therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of
an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence
among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and
regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their
ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch. For instance, in an age and in a
country where royal power, aristocracy, and bourgeoisie are contending for
mastery and where, therefore, mastery is shared, the doctrine of the
separation of powers proves to be the dominant idea and is expressed as
an "eternal law".

From The German Ideology, Karl Marx

Solidarity is not in the Capitalist lexicon but it is as natural as breathing.

[Greyhound]

31. "The trouble with the Rat race is that even when you win, you're still a rat"

Lilly Tomlin (Edith Ann)

[pinboy3niner]

7. K&R

[Starry Messenger]

10. k & r

[Cal Carpenter]

11. Solidarity is not a matter of sentiment but a fact..

Solidarity is not a matter of sentiment but a fact, cold and impassive as the granite foundations of a skyscraper. If the basic elements, identity of interest, clarity of vision, honesty of intent, and oneness of purpose, or any of these is lacking, all sentimental pleas for solidarity, and all other efforts to achieve it will be barren of results.

- Eugene V. Debs

[maryf]

13. more Debs

When we are in partnership and have stopped clutching each other's throats, when we have stopped enslaving each other, we will stand together, hands clasped, and be friends. we will be comrades, we will be brothers, and we will begin the march to the grandest civilization the human race has ever known.

- Eugene V. Debs

And this was not sentimental either, it was stated as a must for survival, I believe.

Solidarity!

[maryf]

14. Solidarity!!!

and K&R brother/sister!

[bobbolink]

19. Those are wonderful quotes! Thank you so much!

And a terrific day to post them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9295304

:yourock:

[bobbolink]

23. From a movie I was watching---

"What I learned from growing up in the Civil Rights Movement is that its not just enough for you to be doing better. Your whole tribe has to be doing better or else you really can't do that much better." Autism, The Musical

Sadly, our rugged individualist culture just can't grasp this concept.

[GrantDem]

27. +1

[Greyhound]

30. "The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists

who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood." - Martin Luther King Jr.

[maryf]

32. Good one!

Solidarity!!