Landmark Seminar

[discocrisco01]

Has anybody taken a class from the subject organization? What are you thoughts in it. I heard it was a cult by some people.

[Taverner]

1. Ahem CULT! Heh...

They are the new millenium's presentation of est (werner erhard.)

Remember that 70's Life Building Pyramid scheme that was est? Couldn't go bathroom during seminars. Guards stood at the doors preventing you from leaving?

That's what Landmark is

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. I attended recently. During the break, folks moved in for the big sell. Trying to get

people to sign up for the expensive courses. No one blocking the door but they stood near the doors.

[Cassandra]

7. When I did it in '87...

it was no longer like that. They didn't keep you from going to the bathroom between breaks. They just said that if you left during the course, you might miss what you'd come to hear. Considering that the agitated mind finds reasons to avoid confrontation, like suddenly having to pee, they had a point.

[Taverner]

11. My parents took the whole family to Lifespring (est knockoff) in the 70's

As kids, my brother and I were weird-ed out by anything and everything there. A few years later I went to fundie school - what a shock!

Let me say that throughout my childhood, I never had a clear answer as to what to do.

So....I am a bit jaded on these kinds of things. If anything, these things are personal journeys. And hopefully written down in journals. Not enacted in hotel rooms over a 6-day period.

[Cassandra]

21. I have friends who did Lifespring.

They had some dancing, yes?
I found it valuable to hear that other people had problems that they had made up out of their reactions to situations in their childhoods. It made it easier to examine what I had decided for myself.

[thunder rising]

28. But the question is about the Landmark Forum ... not Lifespring. They are not the same.

[rug]

2. "Landmark Education had its origins in the purchase of the intellectual property of Werner Erhard."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_Education

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. Yep, Werner Erhard stuff. I think his brother is involved with the recent courses

[Cassandra]

3. I did the Forum in '87, moved away from the organization...

in 1991, not because it was a cult but because it was a bit too masculine for me. Not a cult but it does attract those who want to be in a cult. I have a few friends I met there who are still involved off and on and they still find it valuable. The basic course is very useful; I can't speak to follow-up courses.

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. I was forced to attend a session with a friend. It's expensive tough love new agey stuff

It came out of that stuff from the 70s - your problems are your own fault.

[Cassandra]

8. Not your fault but you do have some control over your reactions...

to your problems. Seems better than being stuck with them with no way out.

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. I vaguely recall the controversy from the 70s - applying 'it's your fault' to rape victims

and other victims of abuse.

[Taverner]

23. For est, everything bad that happened to you was your fault

Totally stupid tactic that only works in small doses.

Notice religions only blame some of the problems on you.

est tried to ratchet this up a knot, and failed. Of course the fact that most of it, if not all, was not their fault.

[Cassandra]

25. I don't know what they said in the 70s.

The way they expressed things could be misinterpreted.

[Taverner]

14. I think what people need to learn, if anything is that who's fault doesn't matter

What are you going to do about said problem, is the only thing you can address.

Anything else is trying to get to Cleveland on an excercycle.

[thunder rising]

29. "Forced?" at gun point? Have a problem saying no? So, blame it on your friend and Landmark

[Liberal_in_LA]

45. maybe 'forced' is too strong a word. Peer pressured into going

[Ron Green]

9. Had a friend who took the est training in the 70's; paid $350 to find out he was an asshole.

I could've told him that for free.

[Cassandra]

12. If he finally believed it...

maybe it was worth the money. ;-)

[thunder rising]

32. You mean "got it"? It's just the water we swim in.

[NanceGreggs]

10. Honestly, steer clear ...

My best friend's husband got involved with Landmark several years ago.

As the bank was threatening to foreclose on their mortgage, and utilities were being shut off due to lack of bill payments, her yahoo husband was still pouring thousands of dollars into "seminars" that he'd been convinced would make him successful, wealthy and well-adjusted. (Oh, and it always takes just a few more seminars to accomplish your goals.)

Nine years in, he is still unemployed, his marriage fell apart, every relationship he's had since has failed, and he's drowning in debt.

I can't fault this cult for living up to their name: Land a Mark - then soak 'em for every penny you can squeeze out of 'em.

Hope that answers your question.

[Liberal_in_LA]

16. I have a friend who loves it but she seems to be disciplined enough to hold on to

her money.

[Cassandra]

17. I met participants like that...

who thought that one more advanced course was going to fix them, but it was always true that you didn't need to go beyond the basic course. However, it's a business, and a global one, so there are a lot of bills to pay. The woman who ran the NYC office when I was around, upon finding out that I had signed up for an extra course instead of doing a drawing course I'd wanted to do, refunded my money and told me to go out and do my life instead.

[thunder rising]

30. I guess the guy just can't say NO! That's all it takes. Try it.

[NanceGreggs]

35. He doesn't want to say no ...

... because the cult validates his every thought.

This sociopath is convinced that he is a genius, worthy of adulation, and deserving of a job that recognizes his superior skills and intellect - with an attendant six-to-seven figures salary per annum.

He's never, in his entire life, held a job that pays more than a pittance - nor has he ever held any job for more than a few months due to laziness and an inability to "play well with others".

For almost a decade now, the Landmark people have been telling him he is right in his self-assessment - and just a "few more" seminars are key to opening the world's eyes to his particular magnificence.

[thunder rising]

37. Com'on a sociopath? Maybe narcissistic, but he's not killing people.

[NanceGreggs]

40. He's a sociopath. Believe me.

And not all sociopaths are murderers.

[JackRiddler]

47. Good sociopaths find their outlets in corporations and the state.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

13. Expesnive cult

Think "Scientology without the celebrities".

[greymattermom]

15. two daughters two responses

One of my daughters did it and is in the third phase. She helped organize two events, one for 350.org, with some coaching from Landmark. She love it and says it has built her self confidence and is now a Landmark coach. The other one thought it was creepy and left before the end. They followed her to the parking lot, and she had some bad dreams about being followed afterward. My husband did the first seminar and it has helped him. He used to make excuses for not calling us when he was out of town (not a phone person...) and the Landmark guy told him that was bullshit. I went to the Tuesday night part and agreed with daughter number 2. Creepy.

[Liberal_in_LA]

19. That's their pattern, to call you out when you don't attend a meeting or don't call

[Starry Messenger]

18. Corporate cult.

Amway without the soap. They exist to upsell classes. My dad is in an offshoot and it's like money down a rathole. Trust me, the man has not changed in the 25 years he's been at it either.

[Taverner]

22. Wow - what was it like growing up around that?

That would have made for an interesting childhood....

[Starry Messenger]

26. It was awful.

I'll be frank. It happened right after my parents got divorced, and my father turned into a sociopathic robot. It took me a long time to repair our relationship, but we have never been as close as we were when I was a kid. It's like he kind of died. He's mellowed with age, but he can still hit you with the old "You're only angry because you are angry at yourself" kind of talk. I keep it light and don't discuss my feelings.

[Cassandra]

33. Having made phone calls to graduates for a while...

I can attest that they can be shitty in transformed language.

[thunder rising]

31. An offshoot? There is no "offshoot". Is that a label YOU attached to that organization

[Starry Messenger]

34. You're right. It's my racket.

:D I'm an asshole.

[thunder rising]

36. A person that cannot say NO, will forever be sucked right back into the door. They don't "get it".

[emsimon33]

24. Cult....duh! Landmark is a synonym for cult

I was denied entrance the second day because I "did not follow the rules."

I had researched the organization the night before and my suspicions from the first day were confirmed.

The zombie demeanor of the members was also a clue!

[thunder rising]

27. Denied entrance on the second day? That screams the you were late and arrogant and would not your

failure in your commitment. Loss of integrity, bad news. I'll bet this trait shows up in your life a lot!

[Cassandra]

38. Be gentle with the civilians.

They're not paying you for an analysis of their behavior.

[thunder rising]

41. Sry, couldn't let it go. (it was just soooo obvious)

[Taverner]

42. YOU -- WILL -- ASSIMILATE

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

[emsimon33]

44. Actually, I was early and had picked upsomeone who needed a ride

A bit defensive, there, aren't you!!!???

One example of how crazy these people were and why I was probably barred the next day was that when we went to lunch, a "member" went with each group. At the table I questioned some of the approach used which challenged the others to think themselves (I am a Goldratt Institute Jonah). The "plant" almost choked to death several times and was unable to cogently argue against the points I was making.

It's a recognized cult just as the Scientologists are. However, if people need others to tell them what to do and how to think, I guess Landmark and Scientology are better than Fox "News."

P.S. If I need some cult to "teach" me how to be committed and possess integrity, then God help me! And if Landmark trains its members be snarky name callers, then maybe they are more like Fox and The Family than not.

[thunder rising]

39. Landmark gave me everything I paid for. I attended the first phase twice 10 years apart.

It's been 10 years maybe it's time to do it again.

[vanlassie]

43. Landmark is not a cult.

I have not attended but I know a number of people who have.

These are people I met in my participation in the Kairos Foundation's "More To Life" courses.
They say that More To Life is a kinder, gentler, Landmark. ....Lifespring is similar, as well.

In any case, the courses are a form of cognitive behavior learning that is highly effective for people who are wanting to make a change in their lives. As a general rule, if someone leaves saying "My friend forced me to go..." or "They wouldn't let me leave" these are individuals who were not ready to learn what is on offer in this type of course. If, on the other hand, you are ready to get to work and learn some tools that can help you learn new ways to respond to life, this course is fantastic.

The first thing you would learn is that "Your friend" can't "make" you do anything. How many of us have spent a good part of our lives thinking that we "can't" or "have to" do/not do things?

A significant learning in this course deals with resentments. It is one thing to say that we "shouldn't" hang on to resentments. But my experience has shown me that without tools, even the best intentions are hard, if not impossible, for most people to reach.

The tools I gained from this course were worth many times the money and 35hour weekend I contributed.

[ceile]

46. My friend took it and is trying to get me to go

I think she's taken 3 or 4 classes by now. After the first one, she was all excited, but it was the weird, glazed over way she talked about it that sent up red flags for me. Before each class she sends me an email "just in case you're interested". No thanks.