BREAKING NEWS: The lead investigator of the Hartley case on Texas/Mexico Lake Falcon loses head...

[Subdivisions]

The lead invstigator of the "pirate" incident on Lake Falcon on the Texas/Mexico border been killed and his severed head has been delivered to the Mexican army.

Breaking: MSNBC (Broadcast)

Well, this is quite the twist. I have to admit that I've been cautiously suspicious of Mrs. Hartley. But I don't think she would be able to cut off the head of her husband's Mexican lead investigator and then deliver it to the Mexican military.

This story just got a lot more interesting.

Some background links:

http://www.kens5.com/news/Evidence-surfaces-in-Falcon-Lake-case-that-may-back-up-Hartleys-claims-104642784.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7242536.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Wx_LeKFFE

[Renew Deal]

1. I guess the husband really was killed in the lake

Or maybe the wife did this too. :tinfoilhat:

[jobycom]

2. Jesus.

[Bozita]

3. So, ... how's that War on Drugs going?

[w8liftinglady]

4. well..that's a glimpse on what they do to their citizens.

[JuniperLea]

9. And some people wonder why...

So many Mexicans are putting their lives on the line to get over here.

These poor people can't win for losing.

[Swamp Rat]

10. ¡De vera!

:thumbsup:

[Bobbieo]

12. Got a story the other night from a known TV personality chiding me on

my concern about the drug cartels on the border. She stated how safe it is to live in the interior of Mexico - Puerto Vallarta (sp)- and how we border people are exaggerating the dangers.

I remember the days when we used to drive from Tucson to Guaymas and Mazatlan - no mas!!!!

[NashVegas]

42. So, What Do You Think These Cats Will Do If We Legalize?

Get on with their lives and go pump gas somewhere?

[southmost]

43. stalemate as planned

Most of the corruption is infiltrated into the government.

The AP reported at the time that the investigation would likely be complicated by regional gang wars between the Gulf Cartel and the Zeta drug gang, made up of former Mexican special forces soldiers.

There's no winning the war down there, as long as money is being pumped (for drug wars) into that country from ours.

[hobbit709]

5. If you go into that part of the world and start asking questions

something is going to happen to you just because they don't know who you're really working for.

[SoCalDem]

6. Jan Brewer will be interested in this story. n.t.

seriously though, people HAVE to be a LOT more careful in & around Mexico. It's no longer a sleepy, welcoming place, waiting with open arms, for the turistas to arrive . The wild places are no longer all that safe, and even though that lake looks inviting, or that deserted desert area looks like a great place to camp, people need to think twice or more..

[XemaSab]

7. This is really freaky

I've been to Falcon Lake. :(

[WolverineDG]

26. I live nearby

imagine how I feel. :(

But, seeing as how neither the husband's body nor his jet ski have surfaced, you could still have the "wife did it" or "faked his own death" scenarios, since the investigation simply gave the cartels the opportunity to kill someone off.

It is quite possible this guy was assassinated for reasons other than the Hartley investigation.

dg

[Frustratedlady]

8. I suppose Brewer will feel vindicated now about her statement?

She sure has been quiet.

[Subdivisions]

11. Breaking CNN:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/12/head-of-lead-investigator-in-falcon-lake-case-found/

[rocktivity]

13. Maybe he was also working on an unrelated case

Or he simply could have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, like that cop in the movie Reservoir Dogs.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[HuckleB]

14. Sounds like a cross-border No Country For Old Men come to life, or death.

[cbdo2007]

15. Wow, didn't see this one coming.

[seabeyond]

16. i read one story and seemed pretty clear that she was telling the truth

the only reason i read it was a thread on du that was questioning her. and so many seemed sure she was lying. i didnt get far into sotry before i wondered why people were so sure.

[Blue_Tires]

18. a lot of things are unanswered, but I'll stick to the biggies:

1. What did they do or see that caused the "pirates" to attack?
2. Why would pirates ever attack someone on a jetski (i.e., almost certainly no cash, jewelry or valuables on them?)
3. How did the wife escape unharmed, even after going back in an attempt to save her husband??
4. Let's say for the sake of argument that the killers were murdering sociopaths interested in violence and not money -- Why would they kill someone in cold blood and let a witness escape?
5. Why hasn't the body been found??

[Subdivisions]

19. How did the wife escape unharmed

This was the big one for me. She described that her husband's killers were a jetski length away from her. I think she also said they let her go.

[seabeyond]

21. ya, see, those questions dont bug me. pirates on lake. works for me. nt

[Blue_Tires]

37. That still could be true, BUT

then she needs to come clean on their actions on the day in question...

And I'm starting to wonder if there wasn't some strategy in place with Hertley and the media constantly calling them "pirates" (which creates a very rigid image in our collective minds of predators ambushing innocent victims) instead of "gang members/drug dealers/people traffickers/smugglers" (which makes us think of a possible deal gone bad)

If she and her husband were trying to do some sort of "business arrangement" which ended in gunfire, she should admit it because turning on the tears and playing the innocent widow is only going to fan the fire of racial hatred (which we all know plenty of politicians want to exploit)...

My most probable explanations:
1. Husband has a tragic accident (real or set-up) and fearful wife covers it up
2. They were in a place where they weren't supposed to see and saw something they shouldn't have
3. Deal gone bad (drugs or whatever)

[Xithras]

33. There are simple answers to all of those.

1. What did they do or see that caused the "pirates" to attack?

As several articles have pointed out (including one linked above), that side of the lake is a hub for drug activity. It's very possible that they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

2. Why would pirates ever attack someone on a jetski (i.e., almost certainly no cash, jewelry or valuables on them?)

That question discounts the value of the jetski's they were riding. The jetski's themselves may have been the target. Jetski's are small, fast, and are great for someone who is transporting small arms or guarding a shipment across the lake. It also has obvious cash value.

3. How did the wife escape unharmed, even after going back in an attempt to save her husband??

In her interviews, she claimed that after her husband was shot, there was apparently an "animated" discussion between some of the gunmen, before they backed off. Given the previous robberies on the lake which led to no injuries, it's ENTIRELY possible that the "pirates" weren't actually trying to kill them, and were just trying to scare them into stopping. If that's the case, and murder wasn't their intent, they may not have been eager to kill a second person.

4. Let's say for the sake of argument that the killers were murdering sociopaths interested in violence and not money -- Why would they kill someone in cold blood and let a witness escape?

See #3. We cannot presume that the goals of the shooters were violence or murder. There's a big difference between someone who will use a gun to take your wallet, and someone who will execute you in cold blood.

5. Why hasn't the body been found??

Big lake. Mexican's won't let the American's drag their half. Mexican's won't mount a full scale search on their half because of drug violence.

But mostly: Big lake. Finding a single body in a 100 foot deep, 130 square mile lake is a challenge under any circumstances. When you can't even start looking for DAYS because of international jurisdictional considerations, it becomes next to impossible.

[BlueCheese]

36. A lot of the reasoning against Tiffany Hartley...

... seems to boil down to "Well, the pirates didn't act in the most rational fashion."

Of course they didn't. People never do. Not too long ago around here, two people robbed a man and woman at gunpoint, and then shot and killed the man, leaving the woman unharmed. Why did they kill him--he had already given them money. Having shot him, why would they leave a witness behind? It doesn't make sense. Yet nobody suspected the woman of shooting the guy herself.

[Blue_Tires]

38. ok, thanks Xithras -- Couple of dumb follow-up questions

The widow's story does seem a little more plausible, but my money is still on a deal gone bad...


1. Was the husband wearing a life preserver?
2. Who goes jetskiing in an area of a lake notorious for drug smuggling? If you had to go at all, why not keep it nice and close to your own shore?

[WolverineDG]

40. Answers

1. Yes

2. Although they were plausibly locals (having lived in McAllen for the past year or so), she said they thought it was ok since things had "calmed down." Now, I don't know where she got that info, because locals already know to avoid the boundary markers on Falcon much like we avoid crossing the bridge. And the people in Zapata & at the lake tell people to avoid the Mexican side.

As for why not sticking the US side, well, the ruins of Guerrero Viejo are interesting & usually reached by land, but water levels being up thanks to Hurricane Alex, the only way to get there is on water.



dg

[Blue_Tires]

17. IF this is true, it wouldn't surprise me if the beheading was related to another case

and this does NOTHING to make Hartley's 'official' story smell any fresher....

[Schema Thing]

20. I think she's the best suspect in the killing of her husband, but I don't

see why you'd connect that to this.


It's not like he's the first mexican police investigator to be killed and decapitated.

[spanone]

22. and why is she the best suspect? were you there?

[BlueCheese]

24. Generally, when someone is murdered...

it's often the spouse that did it, apparently. For example--Scott Peterson, Charles Stuart, O.J. Simpson.

Of course, sometimes these suspicious are wrong--see for example, Dr. Richard Kimble. :|

Trying to be dispassionate--I don't think anyone whose only information is from the news can be that sure of what happened. I would say, however, that this latest development makes it more likely that Mrs. Hartley is telling the truth.

[Schema Thing]

31. guess I'm not seeing that last

Drug gangs are killing (and even beheading) Mexican policemen at stunning rates all across Mexico, especially along the border. A murder, even one they've committed, is generally the least of their worries.


Do people think this investigator had no other cases?

[BlueCheese]

34. Doesn't it move your needle even a little?

From 50% to 50.1%, or from 10.3% to 10.6%?

[Schema Thing]

44. sure. it's interesting. it *might* be related, but there is nothing about

it that inherently relates to this woman or her husband. Hell, they could probably find reason to kill him for investigating the murder even IF they are completely innocent in the murder - since he's undoubtedly poking around on their turf.



If this was my son who was killed, I'd sure hope someone like me was investigating the case, rather than someone like the sheriff who actually IS investigating the case.

[Schema Thing]

28. simple statistics first of all....

...along with the perfect setup to murder a spouse.

So there's the scenario, and add to that scenario very suspicious holes in the story.

[Bobbieo]

25. Why don't you and your partner go water skiing on Lake Falcon close to the Mexican border

and see if you run into any drug or immigrant smugglers?

[Schema Thing]

30. eh eh eh... not so fast. "drug or immigrant smugglers..."

..."who want to start an international incident to bring attention to themselves!"

[Bobbieo]

39. That is the whole idea - they want to bring attenton to thermselves!

They are "In Charge" of the border and they know it. Like who the hell is stopping them - the Mexican police????

[southernyankeebelle]

23. I never doubted her in the first place. I will tell you if their Mexican police or military

can't handle it maybe they should give the american's a chance. That is very sad all around. I feel sorry for the Mexican population having to put up with this behavior.

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. ewww. weird. awful

[MilesColtrane]

29. Mexican pirates?

¡Arrr-riba!

No wonder some people didn't believe this poor woman.

The media should have refered to them as vicious narco-terrorists.

Now those, we believe in.

[Schema Thing]

32. well when you put it that way

INVADE!

[wisteria]

35. How awful. n/t

[Quantess]

41. I'm on the fence about this case.

I think there's a good chance she's telling the truth. Anyway, interesting case.