There are dominant views in the US

[nadinbrzezinski]

One is that this is a very religious county. In fact it is. Nowhere in other advanced economies could you have Presidential candidates run for the highest office in the land and proudly proclaim that evolution is a lie. The US is the most religious nation of any advanced economy. At leastr to me this is partly the problem. School reforms, not about improving our technical knowledge. No, not at all. Not when many of those charters ARE religious schools. Funding research? You kid me right? Science might reveal something contrary to God's plan. I could go on.

Truth be told religion should go back where it existed for quite a bit of our history, a very private sphere where politicos do not wear it on their sleeves. We might be seeing a Third Great Revival, and it might have crested, but as a society, this is damn dangerous in the 21st century. I mean is this the 21st or the 11th? And for the record Dominionists want to go back to the 11th.

Now back the previously scheduled bickering.

[WCGreen]

1. Religion has always been important in this country...

It was only in the late sixties through the late 70's that religion was somewhat pushed to the sideline.

I agree with your premise and will rec this post, but if you think that religion was ever in a 'private sphere", you should go back and really reread the history of our country.

All the great social reforms in this country from public schools, public health, all but universal suffrage all the way to the civil rights movement were started and nurtured by religious people.

Believe me I am not championing religion or even claiming that faith is a good thing, all I am saying is that a lot of principled folks of faith led the way to making our society what it is today.

The new revivalist religion here in this country is based around power and not faith. They are using faith as a means to consolidate power and if there was a tenth ring of Dante's Hell, it would be the perfect place for these sons of bitches.

BTW, I am a non believer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I have

Why I said competing.

A third revival implies two others.

The first went hand in hand with the Enlightenment. The second with Darwin... Not coincidences.

[WCGreen]

6. It was the part you said about politicians not wearing their religion

on their sleeves and I contend that it has only been s slight time when religion was not worn on the sleeves of almost every political figure in this country.

It might not have been obvious in the first 50 years or so in our country but the protestant religion was so ingrained in the public psyche that it never had to be mention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. No it wasn't, not at least for a good porton

Of the 20th century.

Hell until 1904 iirc the Congress met on Christmas day and all members were issued the Jefferson Bible.

This really started with Ronnie like a lot of the other stuff that ails us. Coincidentally the Third Revival started at the same time.
Culture Wars anyone?

[WCGreen]

8. Temperance was all about God...

The right for women to vote was sparked by religious people...

The Civil Rights movement was at it's very roots about god...

The Civil War was justified by invoking god...

Prohibition was all about god...

God was on our side in every war ever fought by the United States...

Manifest Destiny was all about god shining down on the US...

The whole idea of Exceptionalism that has always driven American Foreign Policy has always been about God...

BTW, Christmas wasn't considered a special day until the late 1800's, it has little to do with religion and more to do with pagan rituals and the birth of consumerism. It was considered a Catholic celebration and the dominate Protestant sects frown on such frivolity...

God has been at the forefront of America since the Spanish landed in the Caribbean and the Pilgrims set foot in Massachusetts.

People were still saying prayers in public schools until the 1950's.

JFK had to prove that an American Catholic wouldn't be beholden to the Pope.

Communities shut down on Sunday, I remember the Blue Laws. You couldn't buy liquor, almost every store was closed, people went to church and stayed home.

Believe me, I'm not a big fan, I'm just pointing out that since Jimmy Carter ran for President as an avowed Christian and a Minister to boot, God has been front and center in every election since 1976.

Lest we forget, Martin Luther King was a minster, almost every major figure in the Civil Rights movement, black and white, were ministers.

Just because congress met on Christmas day and Jefferson Bibles were handed out doesn't mean that religion did not play an important role in American Politics.

[leftstreet]

2. American religion and politics go hand in hand

Leaders of both want citizens who are in the habit of believing things that comfort them

[felix_numinous]

4. Separation of powers made this country strong.

The consolidation of religious influence to an already militarized corporate run government spells brutality. It is like combining three or more volatile molecules, the result is exponentially greater.

The people of the left do not want to deny christians to practice religion. We just want to separate government, the commons, social services and education from religion, like it has been for many years.

It is interesting how these religious extremists try to reframe the issue to fit their worldview, as far as they are concerned it is not up for discussion. It is up to the rest of us to prevent them from succeeding.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Even people on the left who ARE religious

Feel persecuted by this separation.

And you are right, it is a toxic mix.