Chevrolet Volt info

[madokie]

http://vxlive.feedroom.com/feedroom/http/4000/5172/6999/7438/Lobby/default.htm

Here is a video of how the Volt utilizes the electric motor, generator and internal combustion engine.
It operates differently than what I thought it was going to do and they address that in this video. I thought that it was going to always use the electric drive to propel the auto with the ICE keeping the batteries charged but that is not the case.
Anyways this is a pretty good video explaining how the different systems interact. Personally I want a true EV with a gasoline or diesel vehicle backup for longer drives.

[B Calm]

1. I'm with you, but with a small diesel motor. The VOLT is way to pricey too!

[madokie]

2. For what it can do I think it is pretty much priced right

it's just not the vehicle that I need or want as I have no need for an extended range EV. Short range yes but anything else can be taken care of with an ICE propelled vehicle. If we had an EV that would go 50 or so miles we'd hardly ever have to use any petroleum fuel of any kind.

[ejpoeta]

3. would the nissan leaf meet your needs? i agree with you. i would rather have an ev

and use a gas vehicle for long trips. i pretty much go 15 minutes to town and back. i hardly ever go farther than 30 minutes from my house.

[madokie]

4. A ford focus EV sure would

I'll not be buying any foreign made vehicles as long as we need the jobs here in the states.

[ejpoeta]

5. if there were a ford focus ev i sure would think about buying it.

i thought about that last night as i saw a commercial for the ford focus. i am not in the market for a car right now. we have a van with a payment. but if i were in the market for a car i like the focus and if it were available as an ev i would definitely LOVE that!

[madokie]

6. They are talking about offering one in '12

A fusion EV also.
We don't have any car payments now and we're nearing that age where we won't be having any extra money to make the payments with but we still have a few years to go so just as soon as the focus or the fusion EV comes out we'll be in the market for one so we can get it paid for by the time my wife retires. We don't drive very many miles per year so a new ford would last us the rest of our driving years. My wife drives a mile each way to her job and I'm disabled so I don't do much driving anymore, maybe 20 miles average a week at most.

[ejpoeta]

9. that's awesome. it's going to be a few years before i am looking for anything

and that would give it time to flush out the quirks. and the more people show an interest in evs the more they will do to make them better and less expensive. you have just made me so happy to hear that ford may be bringing an ev to market. we have always bought ford and i have loved the look of the fusion and the focus. we currently have a chrysler town and country because i wanted the stow and go seating, and i wanted the extra room because i was watching my sisters kids. by the time i am in the market for a new car it sounds like i may have a good ev option.

[Barack_America]

12. I wouldn't get the Leaf.

God forbid you have a hectic day and forget to plug the thing in. What do you do the next day? Wait for the thing to charge in the morning or limp along to work at a crawl speed, possibly running out of power on the way?

The new revelations about the Volt don't bother me. They seem to me to be smart solutions to ensure that people will be able to drive the thing as they're accustomed as they get used to using an EV.

[madrchsod]

7. a small turbine will burn just about any combustible vapor

i suppose the big drawback would be cost.

[Statistical]

8. Noise and efficiency are the big issues.

Making small turbines isn't difficult.
Making a small, quiet, efficient turbine is difficult.

Previously micro-turbines had efficiencies less than internal combustion engines but that is slowly improving and now they are roughly at parity. Still it is a complex challenge because the physics of turbines are optimized for much larger sizes. The most efficient turbines are very large (power plant sized).

Still lots of engineering advancements in micro-turbines.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common
s/c/c7/Micro_turbine.jpg
A DARPA micro turbine to power future land warrior systems.

[madokie]

11. I would think the exhaust would turn everyone off

A friend has a small 40 hp turbine that he bought at a trade school auction and if its any indication of what the exhaust is like I wouldn't want one near me. Talk about singeing your hair it will.
I'm not familiar with turbine engines so I'm hardly an authority on them so they may have improved on that one drawback since the one my friend has has been designed and built so who knows. Maybe even if they only used battery power at slow speeds and reserved the turbine for hiway running that might be a good idea too, for those who have a need for a long range vehicle that is.

[Statistical]

13. The exhaust from any turbine is extremely hot however...

hot air contains lots of valuable energy so in most turbines applications a heat/energy recovery system will simultaneously cool the exaust while recovering energy from it. With a heat recovery system it is possible to get exaust to levels comparable to that of the a traditional engine. Of course heat recovery system increases the weight, cost, and complexity of any system.

The "A" diagram is an example of heat recovery system. Which returns heat (which is thermal energy) back to compressed air which then provides more kinetic energy to the turbine shaft.

Win-win. More efficiency (usable energy) and less waste heat. The disadvantages are cost, weight, and complexity.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Chrysler and GM played with turbines for years...

with Chrysler actually making 50 turbine cars. I seem to remember back then that some of the prototypes melted the plastic grills of the cars behind them with the 500 degree exhaust. And, they use too much fuel at idle, reducing their overall efficiency.

Anyway, it ain't gonna happen:

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/turbine.html

"Ultimately the cost of producing turbine vehicles and the inherent drawbacks to their use in an automotive application would have produced very limited market acceptance. In talks about making cars cleaner and more fuel efficient with engineers here, I've asked whether a small turbine, turning at a constant rate, wouldn't be an ideal way to power the generator of an electric motor-driven car. Alas, the noise, high rpm and heat are still expensive problems, and turbines small enough to serve such a purpose are prohibitively expensive compared to existing alternatives, such as small diesels. In a sense, that's where Chrysler left off. In this context, the allure today of the fuel cell becomes clear."

[Statistical]

18. "Anyway, it ain't gonna happen" that is a bold statement.

I wouldn't say ain't gonna happen. More like not going to happen NOW. Turbine is the optimal method to produce electrical power. We don't have any powerplants which use internal combustion engines. They either use natural gas turbines (burns natural gas in turbine directly) or use steam turbines (burning coal or nuclear fission supplies heat for stem).

A gasoline or diesel powered generator used to charge a battery bank is suboptimal. It is cheaper but also heavier and less efficient.
It is possible in the future (10, 20 years) that turbines will be used as a power source to drive a vehicle w/ electric motor.

[Barack_America]

10. "a true EV with a gasoline or diesel vehicle backup for longer drives"

That's exactly what the Volt is. Gasoline only powers the wheels when the battery poops out or can't handle the speeds you are asking of it.

You might find these articles interesting.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1050307_how-gm-didnt-lie-about-the-volt-and-why-the-press-is-wrong

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/13/127-mpg-what-motor-trend-got-driving-the-volt-in-the-rea/

[Statistical]

14. which isn't how GM (lied) stated it would work.

For long time numerous articles, pres releases, and speeches indicates the gasoline engine didn't propel the wheels instead it ONLY was used to power the battery pack (when charge got low). Turns out that is a lie. Even if fully charged battery pack the gasoline engine will propel vehicle at high speeds.

The reason this is non optimal is that you gain all the cost and complexity of electrical subsystem but keep all the cost and complexity of a mechanical transmission and linkage. Makes sense why the Volt is $41K now.

[Barack_America]

15. I thought the articles said they withheld the info until it was patented.

Listen, I'm not an automotive purist. I'm looking for a car that I can drive as I'm used to driving, without totally upheaving my life. I can't afford a Volt now, but I am keeping it in mind for my next car in a year or two. The Leaf is out for me. God forbid I forget to plug the thing in, what do I do, limp along at 30 mph the next day? What if I have to hop in the car and drive a distance for a family emergency? Do I drive the Leaf to a rental lot and leave it there while I drive off in a all-gas car?

[Statistical]

17. Yeah the Leaf isn't optimal for single car households...

"I can't afford a Volt now, but I am keeping it in mind for my next car in a year or two. "

I think you are missing larger picture having dual power trains (electrical & mechanical) increases costs, lowers efficiency, increases maintenance, and increases change of failure.

The Volt as described by GM is a very elegant solution. The Volt as delivered is no more interesting than a Prius w/ big battery pack.