Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reaping what you sow.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 11:53 AM
Original message
Reaping what you sow.
Almost from the start of the Obama administration and the rule of Democrats in Congress, the left and its component constituencies have been ignored and marginalized. Popular proposals, such as the public option, were sacrificed on the twin altars of bipartisanship and the lack of Dem's willingness to fight. The LGBT community was subject to a bipolar approach by this administration, saying that he was a "fierce advocate" for them on the one hand, while continuing to defend repressive anti-gay policies on the other.

Teachers, anti-war folks, those who believed in civil liberties and justice for all received a rude awakening at the hands of this administration as teachers came under attack, the prospects for ending the illegal, immoral wars disappeared, and we became ever more of a police state.

The left was surprised at first, then going through various stages of despair and disgust, and many have simply retreated from politics altogether. Having the administration insult and berate these people isn't the approach needed, all it has done is entrenched these folks in their positions and views.

What we're seeing happen is chickens coming home to roost. You simply can't attack your base with the sort of fury that came out of this administration and expect people to pull the lever for you. You can't refuse to pass out legislative largesse to a certain critical group, yet expect that group to vote for you. This is, as we're seeing, a recipe for disaster.

Almost a year ago, I posted a question, namely at the rate that Obama and the Dems are pissing off and turning off their base, who do they think is going to vote for them come this fall? I guess we're going to find out. Donations are down, volunteers are down, and the Democratic base is dispirited and disengaged. They simply don't see what is in it for them, and furthermore, they are still pissed at their treatment at the hands of the Democrats and the Obama administration. The fact of the matter is you can't piss people off time and again, yet expect them to be there when you need them. It simply doesn't work that way.

So if this whole election goes down they it is increasingly looking like it will go down, remember this: The blame doesn't lie with the voters. We live in a free country where one's vote can be cast, or withheld as one chooses. It is up to the party, up to the candidate to earn that vote. Thus, the blame for this train wreck lies with those who were in power, the ones who abused those of us on the left, who repudiated our concerns, who refused to address our issues, who berated and belittled us, the Democratic Congress and the Obama administration. You may not like that, but it's the truth. Successful politicians from time immemorial have realized that you've got to dance with those that brung you. That is something that this administration and Congress have refused to do. Thus, they have brought this down on themselves. They, and the rest of us, will reap what they have sown.

Hopefully they learn the lesson in this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Attacking the left worked ever so well for LBJ...oh, wait.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. i often wonder if what you describe was the intended result
which brings me to my next thought: could this all be planned?

there's too much money at stake to think otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. we've been bouncing that idea around our house for a while
After all, with this foreclosure mess coming to light, it seems the banksters may be looking for another bailout. Any wonder why corporate money is going to the other party? They are the *official* bad guys who will take food out of the mouths of the poor to keep corporations from having to actually eat any of their bad business decisions... :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I wonder that as well,
It would make a convenient excuse to have a Democratic president "forced" into things like signing SS cuts into law by a 'Pug controlled Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
63. i've had the same thought. as well as the one about why the biggest financial crisis
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 04:21 PM by Hannah Bell
since the great depression seemed like an opportune moment to recruit the party's first african american presidential nominee.

"let the black guy take the blame"

just the kind of thoughts which are stirred up in this environment of utter weirdness & madness
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I don't think it's planned. I think it proves that 'we' are not in charge.
Corporate America is in charge. Not any of us little people active (or not) in a political party. What's best for corporate America is what we get. Health care reform that really isn't, Wall Street bailouts that include no accountability, open season on public education (the newest profit center for corporate America), etc, etc, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yes I think they're throwing it on purpose.
And at some point here we're going to have to come to our senses and fight back (see: France, Greece).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I think they threw 2004 on purpose
I'm not so sure this time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
87. +1 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Their messaging is horrible.
They are smart people.

It's hard to think it's an accident.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
65. +100. if they actually wanted to win votes in this environment, the average man on the street
could devise a better strategy than they have.

it's no accident. as for the reason, though, that's a little less obvious, could be various ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Very well said

:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. K & R nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, but
All those dumbass republican voters are to blame.

History shows time and again that they had to be overwhelmed before any progress has ever been made.

Pandering to them is an art. Pandering to us sets them on fire such as it has, boiling politics to make the tea.

It is not time to be setting up a circular firing ring. This is the time now to overwhelm the R voters.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Donations are down, volunteers are down, and the Democratic base is dispirited and disengaged. "
No they aren't, they're at record levels.

Wall Street donations are down.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Meanwhile, I wander into local Democratic offices,
And they're barren. I haven't seen one door knocker, received one call. Which should I believe, the blue link of death or my own lying eyes:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Here's
another blue link and another.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Neither of those disputes his claim about what is going on where he lives
I live 100 miles west of him. And we are struggling here. It's the worst campaign season I can remember.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. Uh, we don't know where he lives. That's not in the profile.
Nothing wrong with that, but we don't have that information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. I take it you missed this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Nothing in there about where the poster lives. Sorry.
You may know the poster. I don't. I did click his/her profile to check, but there's nothing in it about that. Nothing in that post you linked to, either. Besides, I do not necessarily read every post in a thread. When I say I do not know where a poster lives, it means exactly that. It always means that I have looked at a profile, but it doesn't mean I've read every post that poster has made.

Have a pleasant afternoon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. It doesn't matter
He says there isn't much energy in his local Dem campaigns. It doesn't matter WHERE that is happening. He was just proving that additional fund raising on the national level doesn't always trickle down to the local level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Apparently it does matter, but your link didn't answer the question.
He's not the one who brought up the actual location, you know. That's why I replied to that particular post, you see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. We have received calls
Door knockers... No, not really. We never do anyway.

But calls, yes absolutely.

FYI, it is all local.

Of course here we are trying to bring a dem to the Board of Supervisors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. how are the Dem candidates doing in your neck of the woods?
is there anything up for grabs??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. DSCC just pulled its money from Robin Carnahan's campaign
You can say hello to Senator Blunt in a few weeks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. They did no such thing
<...>

The online political magazine Politico, citing ad sales executives in St. Louis and Kansas City and a Republican source, said the ad buys total about $1.3 million. A DSCC spokesman told Politico it was "dead wrong" to conclude that the change in the advertising purchase meant the Democrats were abandoning the race, noting the committee purchases ad time on Fridays.

Democrats denied reports last week in the National Journal's Hotline on Call that the DSCC pulled two weeks worth of ads from a Kansas City TV station.

link


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. They most certainly did
I'm working on her campaign. She lost the funding this week.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/13/2311612/democrats-scaling-back-spending.html

Politico is a joke. It shouldn't even be allowed as a source here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. They did not. You claimed: " DSCC just pulled its money from Robin Carnahan's campaign"
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 04:15 PM by ProSense
You linked to an article titled: Democrats scaling back spending for Carnahan in Missouri

Democrats this week are spending considerably less than they had planned in Missouri, where Democrat Robin Carnahan is struggling in her race again Republican U.S. Rep. Roy Blunt. Democrats have cut airtime reservations for the state in the next two weeks, but they still could decide to run ads during that period.


That is not "pulled its money"

The DSCC is still spending in Missouri:

10/12/10 General Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte Oppose Roy Blunt (R) $138,227.00 Media Buy TV

Here is an ad run in Missouri recently

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Believe what you want
I'm actually on the campaign. The money for that TV spot was spent a month ago.

The Democrats are giving the money they had planned on giving to Robin to Harry Reid. So there won't be any more media buys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. I'm in Missouri, and there was little money, or effort, to help the Carnahan campaign from the getgo
What little national help she had has just been withdrawn. I'm not working the Democratic campaign this year, out of sheer disgust, but I still know plenty of folks who do, and they're feeling abandoned.

And as far as House seats go, the only one who is getting national help is Skelton, one of the bluest of the blue dogs. Hell, the Dems don't even have anybody running against Luetkemeyer in the 9th district. Our state has been abandoned, written off. I suppose that resources have to be directed towards saving Reid's butt, since he can't seem to figure out how to KO a completely insane opponent.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
89. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
77. No believe the anecdotal "evidence" of your own 'lying eyes'
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 11:56 PM by grantcart
I am helping in two campaigns that are full with volunteers.


Latest polling shows that "constituent" groups of the left show record high support for a President


"Liberals" 79%

"Liberal Democrats" 86%

"Black" 87%

"Hispanic" 65%

Of course among a few dozen posters who presume to speak for "Liberals" is another story.


edited to add the link: http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #77
90. "Of course among a few dozen posters who presume to speak for "Liberals"
It's enough to make a person want to :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
93. How many doors have you knocked on? How many calls have you made?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. None, absoluetely none,
You know why? Because in our state senate race the folks at the national party level made a decision to write Missouri and Robin Carnahan off at an early date. As far as the House race goes, there is no Democratic candidate, period.

Not to mention that being unemployed, I can't afford the gas, time or energy at this point. Not to mention the fact that I'm royally pissed with the Dems for their lack of spine, their attack on my profession, and their attacks on the base of this party. This is what Obama and the Dems have wrought, for I'm not alone. There are many liberals out there who are not being active for the party because they feel under attack and let down by the Dems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. You are out of work but you can't spare the time or energy
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #98
101. Time, energy and money
Living out in rural area it takes gas to get around. Gas=money, something I'm conserving.

And like I also said, I'm rather pissed off with Obama and the Democratic party in general and see no reason to support them when they're certainly not supporting me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Not here they aren't
I am now getting at least two calls every day from a campaign begging for money or labor. I live in a two state area and on BOTH sides of the state lines Democratic candidates are struggling worse than I can ever remember.

The DCCC abandoned our local candidate for Congress.

The DSCC abandoned one Senate candidate and has completely ignored the other.

What impact do you suppose this has on the Democratic base here? You can bet your ass we are dispirited and disengaged.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Hmmm?
"The DSCC abandoned one Senate candidate and has completely ignored the other. "

The DSCC is not the DNC. Still, which Senate candidate did they abandon? It's not unsual for these organizations to focus more resources in races that are winnable.

"What impact do you suppose this has on the Democratic base here? You can bet your ass we are dispirited and disengaged."

There are districts and some states across the country where Republicans will win. That does not mean that Democrats in those states have given up.

Being despirited and disnengaged is on you. The funny thing is that over the last few weeks a lot of people have tried to claim that they do plan on voting. Yet here we have an "I told you so post," before the election has even been decided, declaring that Democrats are going to lose.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. LOL The chair of the DNC grew up HERE
And yes, we are completely ignored by him and his party.

And they wonder why this is such a red state and MO is turning purple.

Yes, Democrats are going to lose here. Not because people don't vote. But because no resources are allocated to help us beat the Koch funded GOP. No money for ads, no money for GOTV, no money for paid staff. Our party has never even fucking tried to beat them here in their home state.

So don't criticize ME for being dispirited and disengaged. I'm not the only one. It's become a red state hell tradition here in the midwest home of Tim Kaine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. What does that have to do with the fact that the DSCC isn't the DNC? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Once again. We get no support from ANY national group.
I don't care if they are related, connected, affiliated or NOT. They spend ZERO here supporting our candidates. So your links proving donations are up are USELESS to us here in the OP's area. I don't give a shit. The very best and most intelligent candidate I have ever known is running for US Senate here and she'll be lucky to get 40% of the vote, thanks to the lack of help from Democrats OUTSIDE this state. Remember, the Kochs live here. They fund EVERY Republican who runs for office. They, along with the anti-choice Dr Tiller hater groups, helped turn our ONE blue district red nearly 20 years ago and the Democrats have done not one thing to win that district back.

We can't do it alone. We need the support of the DNC, the DCCC AND the DSCC. But we never get it. So we stay red.

So please don't tell me donations are up. BFD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. For once, I agree with you.
When Howard Dean was the Chair of the DNC, they were AT WAR with the DCCC constantly.
Rahm HATED Dean's winning strategy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. Oh, a fact
What an odd thing for this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. I am so glad I read the Bernie Sanders post above this thread first.
A little common sense goes a long way.

Unrec for pissing me off one more time.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So a post on an anonymous chat board pisses you off, eh?
Maybe you can now relate to how teachers feel as this administration has continued to attack them. Nice that you get a little taste, perhaps you can now relate a bit better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Yes, it does.
I've had many a taste on this anonymous board, in fact, I've had it drilled like it's the gospel. The best thing is that I've never been a victim and have no intention of becoming one now. When someone is trying to teach me a lesson...it's always all about them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
71. I'm not trying to teach you anything
Nor is anybody else. What people are trying to do is get our leader's attention, through any means necessary. A lot of people in this country feel that at best they're ignored and at worse they're attacked. How would you like to have you and your real life profession attacked, not just your idle internet chat?

This isn't a DU shit slinging fest we're talking about here, this is real life, and in real life a lot of people are feeling abandoned and under threat. They're looking for somebody in DC to stand up and fight for them, after all that's why Obama and large Democratic majorities in Congress were elected. Yet instead we're seeing the Dems flee from the fight time and again.

If you don't see this, if you don't feel this, if you don't know this, then you're simply not paying attention. Perhaps you will, we'll see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Unrecced for unjustified defeatism.
Opting out won't get what you want. That much I can guarantee. It will just get you ignored completely. If you opt out, you are irrelevant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:29 PM
Original message
Rec and an additional kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks for kicking my reply...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thanks for kicking the post. It's impressive
DU has some outstanding thinkers!

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. I haven't opted out MM...
... in fact, I had been more politically active than at any point since participating in ENDING the war in Nam. Yet, my needs and voice are being ignored and my issues don't ever get addressed. So exactly what good has "getting involved" done for me?

That's a rhetorical question...

.. the answer is absolutely none, unless you think of being insulted for daring to express my frustrations by supposed "members" of my own political party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. I didn't unrecommend your post. I unrecommended the OP.
Sorry for your confusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I didn't think ..
..you did, my friend. I was just trying to give you the view from my perspective. That is, that being engaged has yielded nothing to improve my family's situation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
74. Wow, how very Soviet of you, perhaps I need that Murty-Bing after all
Unjustified defeatism:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. In a thread where post #2 features a portrait of the Founding Soviet Heroes, you use this as a slur
Inconceivable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #74
83. You betcha. Just look at my avatar. I honor Karl Marx,
who was an avatar of Santa Claus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yep. K&R (n t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. k & r. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. I hope they do. I'm just trying to keep my head down
and get Boxer voters out to the polls. And Brown voters and MJ voters, for that matter.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
35. Unrec. Fact-free flamebait posted as "the truth." nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
36. Unrec'd for entirely delusional and unrealistic view of the world
I'm tired of this stupid meme that more "courage" would have changed Congress.

And the rushing into victimhood due to poor understanding of policies and legal issues.

Wake up! There are Republicans out there. They will REALLY victimize you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Recc'd because it's reality here in red state hell
Like we don't know how evil the republicans are? That's a freakin joke. We could write a book on dealing with right wing morons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Red state hell here, too.
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 01:22 PM by Catshrink
I don't think the DSCC has ever provided support to our candidate to unseat McCain. House incumbents are getting a little help, but we hear nothing from the Senate candidate. He finally put up a few signs - little dinky things hardly befitting a senate campaign.

Not to mention that my district chair is an elitist little snot who dissed my neighborhood as "those people." Sorry I can't afford a $300,000 house across the highway.

BTW, I showed up eager to work, dedicated to unseating the RW idiots and was met with this attitude from the local people. Fuck that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. I don't think they want to unseat McCain
Just like they don't want to unseat Roberts or Brownback here. Or that asshole in Oklahoma. It's proof that Corporate America is in charge and no one political party. Just like Greg Palast says, it's about the puppeteers. They remain in charge while the puppets change.

Here in Kansas, we had a former US Congressman with a great track record and lots of local money running against Roberts two years ago. His son is my state rep. Great family. I decided to help on his campaign because I (stupidly) believed we had a real chance to get rid of 911 Pat - as I like to call Roberts since that botched 911 investigation.

So I got to be somewhat on the inside of a campaign for a national office and boy did I learn a lot. One of the first things we did, early on, was contact Tim Kaine and ask for his help. We wanted him to come home (he grew up here and his mom is still here and active in our county party) and do a fundraiser for our candidate. No response. A few months later, his mom came to a fundraiser and we chatted about Tim. She offered to ask him to please come here for a fundraiser. He was too busy. Now this was BEFORE he was DNC chair. He was still a governor and knew he was not running for re-election but he was too busy to come home for a weekend with Mom and a quick fundraiser. We asked him for help raising money. Nada. Obviously, Kaine was not interested in helping unseat Pat Roberts. It was unreal. Our candidate lost badly.

Now we have Brownback who has decided he wants to leave the Senate (good for the country) and be our next governor (bad for Kansas). But let's back up. When Sebelius (probably the BEST governor we've had in my lifetime) was tapped for HHS Sec, her Lt Gov was her replacement. Great guy, well liked. Doing a great job. But he used to be a moderate republican and switched over to Democrat shortly before running with Sebelius in 2006. He announced early on that he would not run in 2010, he was leaving politics all together. (Recently he announced he is moving to DC to take some 'non-political' job.) So as soon as the governor said he wasn't running, Brownback announced he would be the next governor. The Democrats came up with a great candidate, a state senator with an impressive local record. But he is barely alive in the battle to win the race. Again, no help from the national party. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

Meanwhile, the elephant in the room here is the Koch dynasty. They fund nearly every GOP candidate in the state and we have minimal chances, without help from national groups, to beat them or their candidates. Now they are trying to take over the country.

The DNC tells us their resources are limited and they can only help so many campaigns. I get that but they have never ONCE lifted a finger to help us here change this state from red to blue. Even to purple. We haven't had a Democratic US Senator since the 1930s. And we likely never will, as long as the Kochs get no competition.

If the Democrats really wanted to unseat McCain and Brownback and Roberts or any of the other republicans, they would try.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
75. Courage, yes, and fighting would have helped a lot as well
Hell, the Dems were given large majorities in Congress, along with the White House, to do one thing, fight for us, the regular people. Instead we see a public option that was supported by the majority of the people go down with a whimper, we see the repeal of DADT retired without a fight. C'mon, once, just once the Dems need to force a real live filibuster on a popular issue. Use the bully pulpit to demonize the 'Pugs and push that piece of legislation through by sheer grit and brute force. Is that too much to ask?

I know the 'Pugs are out there, I live in one of the reddest counties in the country, I'm fully cognizant of what 'Pugs can do. But the fact of the matter is that using fear to propel people to the voting booth will only take you so far. You've got to have a record to run on, and so far the past two years simply hasn't provided that overall, not on the big issues.

You have got to give people a reason to vote for your party, you simply can't screw them over and then expect them to vote for you out of fear. That tactic has led to apathy time and again, and that's where it's going now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. Sorry but I am sick of the "Defeatest" attitude shown around
DU.

Instead of putting up candidates that are liberal enough for you, you gripe about who is there and how they haven't done enough of your special requirements.

I have played in many team sports and work team environments and the one thing that seperates successful teams and loser teams are the participants. If team members go in with a defeatest attitude they do nothing to help the team succeed.

That is what I see in all of these posts like this. I believe that "YOU and others" don't want the Democratic party to win. Yes, I said it! You want the Democratic party to lose so you can sit on your high horse and claim that you just knew.....that the Democratic party was doing the wrong thing.

Your post reads as if the Republican party has had no hand in what is going on in DC.

Funny, I didn't see anything about the Democratic party accomplishments. Was that data that was intentionally left out? Oh, and what about the 230 bills that have been passed by the House and are stopped at the door of the Senate, did you forget to mention those too? Is that the Democratic parties fault too.

The truth is the Democratic party will not lose if Democratic Voters get off their asses and vote instead of bitching about their perceived failures.

A story comes to mind when I read these posts, "Chicken Little....the sky is falling, the sky is falling"!!

Oh by the way the guy that did most of the pissing off of the base, "Rahm" is gone! He was at the root of most of the shit that we saw.

Just curious when the Democratic party Holds the Senate and the House what will you say?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. BS - Obama campaigned as a center left liberal and has governed as neo-con light. nt
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 01:25 PM by grahamhgreen
he has not even closed Gitmo
He gave away the public option

etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
58.  +10000000. We've got a lot at stake. It's time to fight--not give in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
66. +1000... identities are wrapped up in criticism and being right about it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
67. Go Maddie!!
Funny, I didn't see anything about the Democratic party accomplishments. Was that data that was intentionally left out?

:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. you really give yourself away
First you complain that "the public option was sacrificed"

then you say that "Almost a year ago ..."

In October 2009 that would be. Obama had been President for just 9 months. The Public Option was still very much on the table. Yet you were already bashing Democrats and predicting (hoping for?) Democratic losses in future elections.

"The left was surprised at first, then going through various stages of despair and disgust, and many have simply retreated from politics altogether."

Yeah, sure. The despair and disgust having been encouraged by various writers almost from the start of the Obama administration, as I have been saying for over a year here too.

Chickens coming home to roost? Or seeds that were planted by malcontents at last bearing the bitter fruit of defeat.

I suppose you are unaware that a majority now thinks that "Democrats have moved too far to the left" or that a larger percentage of the country now considers themselves to be conservative.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

Yeah, if only Obama had been more liberal and the Democrats had somehow passed single payer, then Republicans would never re-take Congress by campaigning against a Government take-over of health care and runaway government spending.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Oh, for Pete's sake. What else do the Republicans have to run on
but "the Democrats have moved too far to the left"?

They'd be saying that if Obama erected a monument to Reagan on his front lawn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. LOL
Too true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. Yep, you reap what you sow...
Unrec.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
60. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
61. FWIW, the recent poll being spun in the media as voters abandoning (D) House candidates cites this-
_76 percent of Obama voters say they will support the Democrat in their House district, while 8 percent plan to back the Republican and the rest are undecided.

_71 percent of McCain voters say they will vote for the Republican in their House district, while 9 percent plan to get behind Democrats and 20 percent haven't chosen a candidate.


Turn out, of course, tells the tale. Yet these stats, on their face, don't support the apocalyptic meme being touted by the press - print, cable or internet.

:hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
68. K&R with the caveat that we still have an obligation to keep the Republicans out of power.
The only solution to the dilemma we are facing is to elect a better Congress. Hold you nose, vote for the "D." Representatives are elected every 2 years... that's the easiest place to start. Recruit quality candidates at the grassroots level and in areas that are safe-to-lean Dem primary some of the Blue Dogs tea party-style.

The South will take much more work and much more investment, which Dean tried to explain when he headed the DNC. But I think Blanche Lincoln's primary scare is only the beginning. Why do you think the unions (especially the teachers unions) are under such attack from Democrats, in particular? AFL-CIO supported Halter over Lincoln and the unions still have enough organizing strength to launch other primary challenges in future elections and will do so according to AFL-CIO President Rich Trumka.

We have to keep fighting, not only for ourselves but for future generations. Things aren't as bad as they could be, but they certainly could be better. I understand the disappointment of all those who voted for change and have not received the type of change they expected. However, we're fighting against a very entrenched set of powerful special interests. One man cannot overcome such opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
69. Rec'd for the truth. Amazing. 40 unrecs. n/t
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 07:43 PM by Catherina
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
78. Truth unsupported by fact:
I am helping in two campaigns that are full with volunteers.


Latest polling shows that "constituent" groups of the left show record high support for a President


"Liberals" 79%

"Liberal Democrats" 86%

"Black" 87%

"Hispanic" 65%

Of course among a few dozen posters who presume to speak for "Liberals" is another story.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
72. Kicking For The Truth
Thank you for posting this. It sucks, but it's true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
73. You Can Unrec, But You Can't Unkick
So there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
76. K/R
just because you stepped on toes. I'm dispirited and disengaged but as always I will vote. This time, only because Ken Buck is a lunatic. But I do wish I had someone to vote for instead of voting against.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
79. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Lets see how long this personal attack hangs around.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #81
107. Attacks against posters on The Fair Game List stay up forever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Geez, you just don't get it, do you.
"Everything I wanted in the past two years.":eyes:

I wasn't expecting that at all. C'mon, stop with the stereotypes for one minute and admit that liberals and progressives are indeed just as intelligent, if not more so, than you are. They aren't wanting everything, but something would be nice. However we haven't even gotten that. Rather, in exchange for our support in 2008 what has the left received? Little besides abuse and lip service. No large, concrete pieces of legislation that we can be happy with, no public option, no DADT repeal, nothing.

Your use of hyperbole and exaggeration doesn't serve your cause very well. It insults people's intelligence and leaves them with a bad taste in their mouth. After all, if you're representative of the Democratic party, then why bother.

But then again, you probably know that, and just don't care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #82
105. You were looking to "receive" something specific in return for your
support? I don't blame the party for giving up on you. Especially when you try to damage them. There's no pleasing you and impossible to "earn" your so-called support.

You give up in 2 years? Good thing you weren't in charge of the civil rights movement. Or any useful movement.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. I wasn't looking to receive something specific,
Nor was I wanting a pony, a unicorn, or Wonder Wookies to pop out of Obama's butt. What I was wanting was a Democratic leadership that would fight, not cave. Where is there any sign of a fight? When have the Dems forced a real, live filibuster to grind legislation through and grind down the 'Pugs? They haven't done it once, all the 'Pugs have to do is wave the specter of a filibuster, and the Dems back down, even on overwhelmingly popular issues such as the public option and DADT.

Nor was I expecting for my profession to come under attack either. Millions of teachers backed Obama because they thought we would at least a reform, if not outright repeal, of NCLB. Instead, this administration has doubled down on that failed policy and guess what, NCLB is still an unfunded mandate that is sucking down education funds in states throughout the US. I know lots of teachers, and down to the last of them, they are all in a state of shock and disgust at the direction the Obama administration has taken education.

The LGBT community is also in a state of shock and disgust, as their promised "fierce advocate" seems to have turned into a fierce foe, appealing court decisions, and refusing to stop the bleeding NOW while working out a more permanent decisions.

The fact of the matter is that in big tent politics you have got to address at least one of the desires of your core constituencies in order to keep everybody happy and under that tent with you. That's politics 101, something that successful politicians like FDR mastered. Obama has not done this. He has, seemingly systematically, pissed off every core constituency on the left in some form or fashion. You can't do this and expect to win.

But more importantly, what all the Americans who elected and supported Obama and the Democrats wanted to see is for the Democratic leadership to fight, not just on little piddly things, but on the large issues. And the Democrats simply haven't done that. Time and again they have left the field to the 'Pugs, seemingly afraid to fight. There is nothing more dispiriting that to see you work, donate, vote for a candidate, only to have he or she sit up there in Washington and continue to allow the people of this country get steamrolled. People need help out here, desperately, and they don't have time for political niceties, or bipartisanship or what have you. What they want is for the Dems to kick the doors down in January of last year, brush away the 'Pugs who were in the minority, and get some major changes done. They haven't seen that, and thus they are disgusted and cynical.

This is the truth of what's going on in this country, and if you choose to believe it or not, it doesn't matter. It is still going to bite the Dems in the ass this fall, and they will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
84. Unfortunately, the lesson they take away
will probably be to go farther right. Same thing that happened during the 'health care reform' debate. When the polls did not look all that favorable for reform, they watered down the bill, thinking that people were buying the 'socialism' argument, when in fact people wanted the bill to have a stronger public option, or even single-payer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
85. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
86. Excellent post
They have indeed brought this down on themselves. Unfortunately, we will all suffer the consequences.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
88. K & R! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
92. Exactly.... as it should be....
earn the vote
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
94. The ones that need to learn the lesson are those that attacked and undermined the Dems
they are the ones responsible for the Dems struggles. The Dems have produced historic accomplishments but many have ignored that and have decided attacking and undermining was better than supporting the Dems and attacking the GOP
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Historic accomplishments my happy ass!
That's just bullshit and you know it. Healthcare reform is a bad joke without the public option (which Obama promised us). We're still fighting two illegal, immoral wars, pouring lives and resources down a never ending rathole. DADT is still being upheld by this administration. Teachers have come under heavy attack from a president who praises mass teacher firings throughout the country.

Yes, there may have been a lot of little shit taken care of, but in the big issues, the ones that make headlines and history, the ones that get people excited, there has been very, very little. And frankly, if you don't recognize that fact, then you're living in a world of delusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. Rachel Maddow would say you are full of crap
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. That's nice, we all have our opinion about these things,
I know several dozen Dems across this country who happen to agree with my POV.:shrug:

Rachel is not the be all and end all of liberal thought and opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. I would say your opinions are in complete oppositions to the facts as well
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #100
102. Well, that is your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions
And trust me, you certainly aren't the be all and end all of liberal thought and opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amaril Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Nor are you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #94
103. The circular firing squad around hereamazes me
A person doesn't have to love the Democrats in power, but the time to work on that is during the Primaries.

Helping to get a Republican in office will never be a better solution, ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC