I was on a recent business trip to Europe with my husband,

[hedgehog]

two other engineers and their wives. I took French in high school, many, many years ago and my husband took German. We made an effort to puzzle our way through signage and restaurant menus, etc. We weren't out to impress anyone, we were just trying to learn as much as we could about what we were seeing. We may not have gotten the details, but we got the gist of a lot of the notices. I was touched by the many small plaques around Paris dedicated to those who fell during the Liberation, many of them only kids of 18 or 19.

Here's the thing - one of the wives was upset by our attempts and started dropping snide comments. Her husband demanded an English language menu at every stop. On a Saturday spent walking through the old town in Dusseldorf, she passed up dozens of coffee houses in order to get a latte at a Starbucks.

She is a real fan of the Tea Party.

Coincidence?

[arbusto_baboso]

1. This wife probably think all Europeans envy us and everything we have and are, too.

Or, alternatively, she thinks Europe is a "lost society". That's what I've run into with teabaglicans.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Irrational fear of what they don't know

Typical of teabaggers. And racists.

[hedgehog]

4. I didn't think of it as fear so much as simple disinterest or boredom,

lack of curiosity. These people claimed to looove travel, but they wanted everything to be just like home!

[Heidi]

18. They want to be served, and they treat everyone who serves them as inferior.

If you're ever curious where the term "Ugly American" took root, it was in the behavior of some of us abroad, not necessarily in the way we dress.

[Barack_America]

30. Sounds like they love to vacation. Hard to be a "traveler" with that attitude.

Typical annoying American tendency to mock and belittle things that make them feel inferior, rather than actually admit their limitations and learn something.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Sounds like they are just plain ole ignorant

[Kalyke]

3. I would have dropped snide comments back.

I'm sorry - I'm not a "big" person and can't let that sort of thing slide off my back.

I would have asked her what her problem was and would have flat-out told her how stupid she was acting and how she distracted the rest of us from enjoying the European culture. If she didn't want to do the same, why didn't she and her husband just stay in the United States and head over to Vega$ or the Redneck Riviera or Branson?

[hedgehog]

7. Well, my husband and I have to work with her husband, so

I had to ignore it.
As a sociological observation, we liberals have learned not to bring up politics, while the conservatives drop their comments all over the place under the assumption that all other white people agree with them.

[sfwriter]

14. My general reply is, "That's really a shameful thing to say, where did you hear it?"

[FiveGoodMen]

25. I wonder if that isn't part of the explanation for the steady right-ward drift

Each generation grows up hearing the right-wing's horrible attitudes go unchallenged while no other viewpoint gets any air time at all.

They must assume we all agree.

(Not criticizing. I've given up trying to talk sense to anyone, myself.)

[Heidi]

5. If not a coincidence, certainly a sense of entitlement I've seen a lot in the years I've lived here.

And all American tourists pay the price for such behavior. How difficult is it to quietly apologize to the waiter for being "English only" and politely ask that the specials be explained? Also, quietly asking the waiter/waitress for his/her recomendations goes a long way, too.

[hedgehog]

9. What was funny is that after my husband or I made a fumbling attempt at French or German,

the waiters inevitably spoke up in English! Makes it hard to get any practice in! My real handicap is that while I can read basic French and can understand a bit of the spoken language, my pronunciation is horrid. I know the words I want to say, I just don't dare trying to say them!

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Most will really appreciate our trying to speak their languages... at least, that's what I've

experienced as I've butchered French, Italian, and Spanish!

[CRK7376]

28. I've always tried

to speak the local language, regardless of how badly I've butchered it. Plus know some of the basic customs. never be the ugly American, there are enough of them at home and abroad as is...While in Korea, I used my few phrases of Korean and knowledge of the basic culture to get a great apartment. The landlady actually wanted me to rent from her, because I tried to understand their culture and customs, speak their language.Try as I might, I could not learn the language and definitely had a miserable time attempting to learn to read Korean. Fortunately, much of Korea has both Korean and English road signs. Nearly everytime I was looking at a subway/city map in Seoul, a Korean would stop and offer to help locate the place I was trying to get to. SOme goes for my time in Europe.

[hedgehog]

43. My husband and I visit plants in Brazil, South Korea, France, Germany, Luxembourg and England.

When discussing which language we should focus on trying to learn, I voted for Korean. We know enough French and German between us to fumble our way through Western Europe and Brazil (French and Portuguese having a lot in common), but that's no help in South Korea!

[NuttyFluffers]

66. learn the hangul script. just like japan, korea has a lot of loan words.

you'll be able to get by when you can puzzle out loan words from the different alphabet. here's a few loan words to help you:

hof-soju (hangul: hop-soju) is reference to hof brau (sit down place to drink) + soju (40 proof rice wine)

bang = room. the loan words next to them define what type of room it is. you'll see PC bang (rent pc time), DVD bang (rent a room to watch a movie), no rae bang (karaoke room), etc.

kopi = coffee pija = pizza taekshi = taxi ...

it's pretty easy to get the alphabet down -- less than a week. but it's all the loan words pronounced in a korean way that makes things hard at times.

don't get lost using the latin alphabet and converting, just use hangul right away. the latin will screw you up at times as there really are no good approximations for things.

[Ginto]

73. What type of plants?

Roses, bromeliads, cacti?

[Arkansas Granny]

52. There is a Mexican restaurant in our town that encourages customers to

speak Spanish if they want to. On their menu they state: "Do you know any Spanish? If so, please don't be embarrassed to speak it. We will be glad to speak it with you or maybe even teach you more!"

Unfortunately, my Spanish is limited to menu items and I butcher them horribly.

[arbusto_baboso]

12. I think just the effort at speaking the language of the locals...

makes them more favorably disposed toward you. It's such a rarity with Americans, that the locals will immediately have a higher opinion of one who does that.

[Heidi]

16. It's the same with me and Italian, and I live in an Italian-speaking canton.

But I try, because trying shows respect and a willingness to reach out, as opposed to giving the impression we Americans expect the waitstaff to scrape and bow before our Visa cards.

Much respect to you for trying, hedgehog! :hug:

[KurtNYC]

17. listen to music in french, it is an easy way to get your ear around the

language. Just let it wash over you. Find songs you like. After a week or so google the lyrics in french and then an english translation. That is how many europeans learned english -- from the Beatles to rap.

Petula Clark, Disney, All that jazz, etc. are easily found in MP3.

Another thing that helped me was watch a movie with the audio soundtrack set to french and turn on the french subtitles.

In person, sometimes just keep speaking french, as much as you know. Let them answer in english (bc you may not understand the answer in french) They will correct your french -- free french lesson (well after the $800 airfare and all).

[krabigirl]

22. And then these idiots come home and are mad when everyone doesn't speak English. Hello?

[Heidi]

24. Yes, that happens, I'm afraid.

It's TRYING to speak the host country's language that counts. I admit that I was allowed to take the Swiss driving exam in English instead of Italian (probably for the examiner's safety, since Spanish is my second language, German/Swiss-German is my third and Italian is a very, very distant fourth) but I do try and readily apologize for my very, very broken Italian. :hi:

[Solly Mack]

67. Yep. People here respond well to those who try.

To those who recognize they're not in America anymore.

It really does come down to good manners.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. When you think the rest of the world was made for the use of America, it all fits.

[marmar]

8. No coincidence. Close-mindedness seems to be a Tea Party trait.

We were at a frites stand in Brussels a few years ago and there were some Americans bitching that they had a mayo dispenser for the frites (fries) but not a ketchup one. (And all the geniuses had to do was request ketchup if they needed it that badly - they had some behind the counter.)
You see, the world MUST be set up to satisfy U.S. whims and desires.

[damntexdem]

10. Coffee houses should refuse to serve Teapartiers.

;-)

I don't include Scarbutts because I speak only of legitimate coffeehouses.

[ladjf]

13. For what it is worth, my wife and I just returned from a trip to Paris.

We were very pleased by the wonderful treatment we received from Parisians of all walks. They were friendly and helpful. They even patiently attempted to understand our crude attempts with the French language. In general, we found the Parisians to be much more hospitable than the citizens of our own hometown in Georgia.

[distantearlywarning]

34. I went to Paris a few years ago.

Had the exact same experience! I felt I was actually treated better by the Parisians than by the average American where I live.

I was surprised, because all I heard about before I went there was how rude and snobby the urban French are. Not the case from my perspective. :shrug:

But I was like the OP, and made an effort to use basic courtesies in the language, and puzzle out menus myself, etc. I think a little effort probably goes a long way with that sort of thing.

[ladjf]

71. The funny thing is that I also had gone to Paris 45 years ago

and my experiences with the French were negative. In retrospect, I believe that the problem was with my personality not theirs. I was too young to be able to connect with people.

[treestar]

35. I was there a while back

Things have really improved on that front. They would never understand or try to, our French, in the past. Maybe it's harder to understand than English with an accent. But this time, the guy at the hotel desk teased us he would give us the key when we said something in French. And everyone was really pleasant, even though it was back in the Bush Administration!

[hedgehog]

44. I agree. I suspect it's because there are a lot of foreigners in Paris now,

not just Americans.

[peacefreak]

15. boy, that's sad.

what's the sense of being in Europe if you are not willing to experience what's around you. Did she look for McDonald's too?

[hedgehog]

19. No, that was the other guy with us!

Worst moment of the trip: making plans for a Saturday and the one guy says he's always wanted to see a concentration camp, sort of the way a life time birder tries to cross another bird off his list. Fortunately, the nearest camp was 200 miles away. I don't think I could tolerate visiting a camp. My son visited Auschwitz, but as a means of bearing witness, almost a pilgrimage, not as a day's outing. To give you an example of what we were dealing with, the suggestion that we visit a camp was followed by the question as to why the prisoners didn't revolt against their guards and why the Jews "allowed"
themselves to be rounded up in the first place.

I've been in Germany twice, always in the industrial north because that's where the plants are today. The areas I visit were bombed to hell and back. I have a hard time because I can look around and see what's missing. I see older people and wonder what they lived through. You see today's prosperity and wonder why so much horror was unleashed during WWI and WWII.

[county worker]

23. "why so much horror was unleashed during WWI and WWII"

I read a lot about WWII. I ask myself the same question. I am a Vietnam veteran and ask myself why that war had to be. My only answer that I can accept is that humans have not evolved to the point where war would be unthinkable. We value competition and disdain cooperation. If you took all the energy that was expended between 1936 and 1945 by people and machines for the war effort and channeled it into cooperation and making the world better place for ourselves .......... I just don't think we will ever get there!

[county worker]

20. She wants English were she travels overseas and more than likely demands

that immigrants in the U.S. to speak English also.

[krabigirl]

21. What idiots. If they are in a foreign country, and don't try to speak the language, well....

I mean don't even attempt, they will receive bad service.

[Initech]

26. Tea Partiers are very narrow minded. If you visit a foreign country, don't be a jackass.

[pinboy3niner]

27. Once, I saw an English-only 'Ugly American' get swift karma

Years ago, I was on a European tour and one guy in our group was a stereotypical caricature of the Ugly American--loud, boorish, bigoted, arrogant, overweight, big cigar-chomping, demanding everyone speak English.

When we went on a shopping excursion in Rome, he didn't want to get 'ripped off,' so he negotiated with a street vendor for an expensive wristwatch. When we all boarded the bus after shopping, he bragged loudly how he'd "Jewed the guy down" to get a fantastic bargain on his watch.

But suddenly, Mr. Ugly American put his watch to his ear and then began shaking it vigorously, complaining loudly that he'd been cheated--it had already stopped working.

As our bus rolled away, he stood, waving his arms and demanding that the driver stop so he could go back to the vendor. "Sorry," the driver and tour guide told him. "We're on a schedule." I think even the guy's wife struggled to contain her laughter. :rofl:

For the rest of us in the tour group, it was one of the highlights of our trip!

[Populist_Prole]

29. Wow, this all sounds so much like some peple I know

Insular, totally incurious, and all too glad to show the world their asses. Their tastes read like some "A" list of plain vanilla corporate vapidity:

Eat their meat well done, drink only light beer or sweet wine. Dislike any ethnic food other than bland pasta or chain pizza. Listen ONLY to top-40 radio, and know bands ONLY through whatever overplayed sell-out "hits" they had. Absolutely swoon over the worst blockbuster hollywood schlock films. They won't watch an indie film, let alone a foreign one w/subtitles ( which they think I'm nuts for liking ). They even complain about British films because of the accents. Care about college/higher education only for whatever cache it might bring to one's credenntials, or, most often, their sports teams. Sports are the only subject they really seem to put any thought to. Don't read books other than Tom Clancy type novels. Real "USA USA!" types described above and have open contempt for Europe other than their cars and whenever I try to point out their better economic policy and high quality of life they get indignant and ask me why I just don't move there. They surely consider me ( and would those on DU ) to be pointy-headed iconoclasts. ( not that they'd use that word )

Can't stand them in so many ways, but we get along for the most part.

[Nye Bevan]

31. Solution: don't go on vacation with tea-partiers (nt)

[Tsiyu]

53. The OP was clear..it's a BUSINESS trip n/t

[Nye Bevan]

56. Ooops, my bad. Probably worth tolerating a tea-partier in exchange for a free trip to Europe. (nt)

[suffragette]

32. "Accidental Tourist' covers this mindset well

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19890106/REVIEWS/901060301/1023
"The Accidental Tourist" begins on that note of emotional sterility, and the whole movie is a journey toward a smile at the end.

The man's name is Macon Leary (William Hurt), and he writes travel books for people who detest traveling. He advises his readers on how to avoid human contact, where to find "American food" abroad and how to convince themselves they haven't left home. His own life is the same sort of journey, and maybe it began in childhood. His sister and two brothers still live together in the house where they were born, and any life outside of their routine would be unthinkable.


Well worth reading the rest of the review and watching.



I think this attitude is ever more apparent in many of the suburbs in the U.S. with an increasing sameness of houses, restaurants, stores, etc. It's all Walmart and Appleby's once you're outside metro limits and it's rare to see the idiosyncratic diners and shops that used to be part of that landscape.

[Populist_Prole]

33. Quite right!

And thanks for the link. Entertaining reading.

[suffragette]

65. You're welcome

The film's worth watching.

I love to travel and a major part of that for me is to explore what is unique about the culture and places I visit. I am that curious cat.
But I've noticed that some of my nieces who grew up in suburbia aren't comfortable with that. They seek out the familiar and when I lived in California were clearly more comfortable in a fake place such as Citywalk than in an iconic one such as Venice Beach.

[treestar]

36. Nope! They have a need to feel superior, based on something

they got at birth at didn't have to earn. That's the way right wingers are. They have to be from the number one country so they can feel superior to someone. So it's no surprise.

[WinkyDink]

37. Your companion is, clearly, ignorant: of art; culture; history.She, most importantly, lacks any

curiosity.

What I'm trying to say is: YOU TRAVELLED WITH A MORON.

[Greyhound]

38. All that is required for evil to win is that people of good conscience do nothing.

There is no excuse for enabling this boorishness, and by associating with them, you are lumped inwith them.

Sorry. :shrug:

[Gold Metal Flake]

42. Speaking of boorish behaviour...

:eyes:

"Sorry" :shrug:

[hedgehog]

46. That's OK, I'm certain I drove them crazy, so I had my revenge!

[Greyhound]

50. Maybe being surrounded by all those "Godless Socialists" will drive him to quit.

One can always hope...

[mainer]

39. They probably demand foreign tourists in the US speak English, too.

They won't speak the native language when they go abroad. But when those foreigners visit the US, why of course THEY have to speak English.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. I have a friend who went to Paris and complained that he had trouble finding a KFC.

He said he wanted some "real" food. And, he wasn't kidding.

Not to mention the times we were in England and heard Americans gripe about the way the English spoke English.

[hedgehog]

45. Well, they do tend to mangle the language.

When we go to conferences with people from the other plants, the Brazilians, Germans, French, Koreans, Canadians and Americans understand each other fairly well. We have to translate for some of the folks from the UK, especially the guy from Glasgow!

Simon Pegg had a ball with this in Hot Fuzz!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. Och, wail Jamie, do ya nae ken guid English?

My mother came from England, my grandmother from Ireland. They both lived in Leeds. Going to England, in many ways, for both me and my wife (whose father was raised in Glasgow, though he was born in Ireland), was like going home. Though, even we, were baffled by some of the local accents. The hard part of our trips was coming home to the U.S.A.

[hedgehog]

48. I watch a lot of Irish movies, but have to turn on the sub-titles for

my husband and kids!

[moondust]

49. My friend couldn't wait to get to McDonald's...

on the Champs Elysees!


(35 years ago)

[walldude]

51. Murika fuck yeah! Speak English when you are in Murika

and goddamn it speak English when you are in France, Spain, Italy, Germany and Poland too. We're Murikans! We don't need to speak more than one language, when you come to Murika you speak english, when we come to France, you speak english, cause we're Murikans... Dammit.

[Hannah Bell]

54. no. lol, i've seen that before, tourists personally offended because the rest of the world

doesn't speak english or behave as americans do.

it's really weird.

i guess it's rooted in unacknowledged fear & discomfort.

but i've seen some people get over it as they traveled more.

[JustAnotherGen]

55. Nope

Haven't read any of the other responses but as a person who loves France, has native friends that live there that I have met through my travels, visit often -

I'm willing to bet the service staff in restaurants and stores in France treated you better than her - And Miss Self Centered From the Land of Culture Is McDonalds, Nike, and Happy Days got well deserved snotty looks from those who would have been kind to her - if she didn't have such an ugly American Attitude.


So nope - not the least bit surprised she is a bagger. She's awfully stuck up and snotty and thinks she's better than everyone else - which is my general assessment of the baggers.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. I haven't been to France since I was a teenager

We went as a family, my parents, my grandmother, and my brothers and I, and Paris was our second-to-last stop.

My grandmother, who grew up as the daughter of German immigrants and lived through the anti-German hysteria of World War I (being a German-American in 1917 was like being an American Muslim in 2001), went in with a negative attitude, as did my mother, who kind of had a negative attitude about most things, irrespective of geography, at that time.

My father and I had both studied French and looked forward to trying it out.

Guess who liked Paris and who didn't.

I found that when I tried to speak French, people really opened up. The cab driver gave us a running commentary on everything we passed. The waiter in the restaurant explained all the specials and gave us his opinion on which ones were best. The woman behind the desk asked how our rooms were and if we wanted anything.

Since that experience, I have always tried to learn a few basic phrases wherever I went. I think it's important to not just walk up to people and start jabbering away in English but to ask them in their native language if they speak English. This is especially important when addressing older people, who may not have had the opportunity to study English.

[GentryDixon]

60. I was witness to the "Ugly American"

many years ago in Paris. This woman was screaming at the ticket attendant at the Metro stop because she could not get the stop she wanted, when she wanted it. I was in line behind her, and was so embarrassed by her attitude. I did not say anything to the American, as she stomped off in anger, but I did apologize to the attendant for her behavior. And people wonder why the Parisians hate Americans.

[Odin2005]

57. typical Imperial arrogance. Roman citizens acted very similarly.

[ThatsMyBarack]

59. Ugly Americans.

I would have ditched 'em!

[MrScorpio]

61. Whenever I went abroad, I always made an effort to learn some common phrases beforehand

Even when I butchered the language, I had always received a favorable response.

France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg... Basically, a common experience.

Only in Holland did I feel totally comfortable using English right off the bat... Eventually.

Most Dutch are very proficient English speakers. After spending a couple of days with my in-laws, first couple of time we went to visit them, I could murder Dutch with the best of them out in public.

That didn't last long. only because I was repeated told that their English was a whole lot better than my Dutch.

[Canuckistanian]

62. God, I hate Ugly Americans

I haven't seen that many of them, but the ones I have seen have been real doozers.

I remember one guy in a mall food court, loudly demanding to know why he couldn't get a beer with his meal.

Do they actually serve beer in food courts in America?

[struggle4progress]

63. Well, if they come to France or Germany, they obviously ought to learn to speak English;

and if they're really going to insist on speaking French or German, then they just ought to go back home to England, or wherever it is they're from, and speak it there!

[mrmpa]

64. you should have made her spend a few days in Paris

the strike(s) would have killed her.

[Toucano]

68. No coincidence. I meet her type every single day.

Sarah Palin actually spoke recently about restoring "American Exceptionalism", as if it ever went any where.

They have no idea how much they are loathed the world over, and they mistakenly believe their "comfortable" lifestyle will protect them from the backlash.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Perhaps you should have "accidentally" lost them and let them find their own way home.

See how far that attitude gets them when they need directions.

[DFW]

70. You were here in Düsseldorf?

Too bad I didn't know! You could have come over for (non-Starbucks) coffee and pastry!

And that stupid woman who passed up all the coffee houses in the Altstadt? Her loss!!

[Ginto]

72. It's like people who come to the states and expect Spanish menus and Spanish signs.

Americans in Europe seem to be particularly obnoxious about this though. On the other hand anyone who's ever waited table knows that in general European patrons are difficult to please and almost never tip.