REPOST: Muslim fundamentalist family tries to get gay daughter to commit suicide.

[backscatter712]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

Far from ending, her ordeal intensified. The troubled teenager was taken to her grandmother's house in the Middle East where, as she recalls with a chilling lack of emotion, her parents tried persuading her to take her own life.

"I was damaging the family honour. I was making the family looking like a modernised, westernised, filthy family. So what they wanted to do is get rid of what is damaging the honour.

"They put you in a room on your own, I don't get any food, or any water, and I have to just sit there and wait to die or kill myself."

To aid the process, a gun, a knife, and pills were left in the room, along with a can of petrol and a box of matches. In her view, Reviva says it would have amounted to murder, not suicide, should she have decided to kill herself.

Wow. This is only part of the ordeal this woman had to go through - she also had to endure attempts at forced marriages, beatings, exorcisms, etc.

NOTE: Followed moderator instructions from previous thread.

[laughingliberal]

1. We have an element in American politics.. cough...fundies.. cough that would like to see this here.

Theocracy sucks. Resist it with all you have.

[backscatter712]

2. In a way, it already is.

One serious problem in America that's not on the public's or media's radar right now is GLBT teen homelessness.

Tens of thousands of kids across the U.S. who get thrown out of their homes by their fundie parents for being gay. Out on the street, with no means of support, who have to eat out of dumpsters, go into prostitution, etc. just to survive.

No, maybe we don't see a culture of parents putting guns in their teens hands, and telling them to off themselves, but throwing them out on the streets like that is almost the same thing.

[Angry Dragon]

3. +1000

[laughingliberal]

4. Agree. People need to understand, this is where shreds of discrimination, allowed to exist, lead...

and weed out its tentacles forever.

[backscatter712]

5. Indeed. This is why the canard "Christians would never get as barbaric as Muslims" is BULLSHIT.

[Shallah Kali]

12. & we have exorcisms and electric shock 'reparative therapy' done in Christian churches

Church's gay exorcism video creates stir
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31528426/ns/us_news-faith/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29tDh21GGg

McEntee: Harsh words about gays rekindle a mother’s anger
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50525254-76/mike-marilyn-gay-mormon.html.csp

So the bishop and Mike’s father arranged to get him “treatment.” They could get things right, and Mike could go on his mission.

As Mike wrote in his suicide note, “The Mormon Church sent a 17-yr-old boy into electroshock therapy.” Marilyn said Mike was shown pornography with electrodes attached to his penis.

“Perhaps they don’t use that same technique anymore but they did it then and it contributed to my son’s depression and consequent suicide,” she said.



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/2/20/175350/314

This is probably a trend I should not be shocked at--the Assemblies actually has promoted involuntary exorcisms of gay youth (some of which I personally witnessed growing up--the outing of, and involuntary exorcism of, several gay youth in the very Assemblies church I am a walkaway from).

The particular Assemblies church I am a walkaway from has the state head of the American Family Association as one of its head deacons--a person (Frank Simon) whose anti-gay rants (which have included mailings of softcore gay BDSM porn to households claiming this is representative of the "homosexual lifestyle" and including the stinger in one mailing "Remember what the homosexual priests did to the children", and in a previous mailing and flyer distribution implied that the Fairness Ordinance (which would prohibit discrimination against LGBT individuals in housing and hiring, and which actually had exemptions for religious groups) was supported by NAMBLA) are so infamous locally that they led two conservative Catholic members of Louisville's metro government to give the swing votes for renewal of the Fairness ordinance.

Two separate Assemblies groups (an Assemblies front group called "International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem", which focuses on converting Jewish people to "Messianic Jews", and a separate Assemblies church) are tied with a Holocaust-revisionist book called "The Pink Swastika" which claims that not only were LGBT people not killed in the Holocaust but were the actual instigators and architects of it (and the very group I am a walkaway from promoted it, and Frank Simon's groups still promote both that and Paul Cameron's discredited work which has included calls for actual concentration camps and execution of LGBT individuals).

Kids in Assemblies churches are quite often referred to "de-gaying" camps like Love In Action's unlicensed facilities in Tennessee if they're thought to have "caught the gay".

Teen Challenge: The depths of coercion at a "God Warrior" training camp
by dogemperor
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/1/164418/2864

One particularly dirty secret in regards to coercive "behaviour modification" centers in general is that they promote "reparative" therapy--essentially claiming to "de-gay" kids. This is something that is not recognised as effective or as a Good Thing by any legitimate mental health org--in fact, they consider it an ethics violation--so quite the "parallel economy" of both doctors and dominionist alternatives to legit mental health facilities--of which Teen Challenge is but one chain of these--have sprung up.

In the case of Teen Challenge, the anti-LGBT attitude is especially apparent. As I've noted, Teen Challenge is a division of a denomination known for having spawned an anti-gay hategroup--and the attitude in "Watchmen At The Walls" is pretty much the unofficial stance of members in regards to LGBT people who won't stay in the closet and be "ex-gays". This is a denomination where involuntary outing, "exorcism", and shipping to places like Teen Challenge of LGBT youth who are unfortunate enough to be discovered is not uncommon. Even officially, the Assemblies of God is probably one of the worst denominations to even have people know you are gay; not only is there a very official policy statement in that being an uncloseted LGBT person is incompatible with the group, but the Assemblies of God is a co-signer of a letter to the American Psychological Association protesting the fact that "reparative therapy" is now seen as a formal ethics violation and not only ineffective but harmful.

And it's no wonder that the Assemblies protests this--it turns out promotes it even as the very supposed "ex-gay" staff members at Teen Challenge promoting "degaying" have stated its likely ineffectiveness. In fact, it appears Teen Challenge may well have been one of the earliest groups in the US promoting "de-gaying"--literature from Teen Challenge promotes its services as a "reparative therapy" center dating back from the 70's. The explicit promotion of "degaying" continues even today--Teen Challenge works closely with Exodus International, one of two primary groups (the other being NARTH, a dominionist "parallel economy" alternative to legit psychiatric/psychological/social-work groups that includes laypersons) that still promote the "reparative therapy" bogosity that has ruined lives.

Needless to say, any LGBT or remotely genderqueer kid is going to be at some substantial risk at a Teen Challenge facility...and, sadly, one of the more common reasons kids are sent to these facilities by their parents is in a futile effort to "de-gay" them.

[treestar]

7. I agree. When the fundies here go on anti-Muslim rants, a lot of

it is just jealousy that the Muslim religion has a grip on government and culture in those countries.

[crazyjoe]

8. really? What "element of American politics" wants gay people to kill themselves?

[backscatter712]

9. Ah, that's right, those gay kids that killed themselves don't exist!

Neither do the tens of thousands of GLBT teens that got thrown out of their homes by their fundie parents and got left to fend for themselves through dumpster-diving and street prostitution.

I suppose Focus On The Family's efforts to quash bullying laws because they won't be able to gay-bash also don't exist.

See? Christian fundies are sooooooooo much more well-behaved than Islamic fundies!

[TheBigotBasher]

10. The same element of American politics that has

been promoting AND funding Ugandan Christians to implement laws that would kill gays.

[backscatter712]

11. DING-DING-DING!!!

The only difference between American fundies and fundies in other countries is that the norms here are set up so they can't say it straight up, so instead they insinuate.

[Shallah Kali]

14. Six Reasons Why Americans Should Care About What is Happening in Uganda - Rachel Tabachnick

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/10/14/154827/99

A May 2010 Vanguard documentary, Missionaries of Hate, shows the impact of a conference in Uganda featuring Scott Lively and the "kill the gays" bill proposed in their Parliament, but it took more than one conference to demonize Uganda's gay population. For years there has been a multi-faceted effort by western politicians and evangelists to promote a politicized Christianity in Uganda. Jeff Sharlet exposed the role of The Family in his book by the same name and his newly released C Street House. Kapya Kaoma produced a report on western evangelical involvement in Uganda in The Public Eye. Charismatic evangelicals, now organized under the authority of apostles, have declared Uganda as a prototype in Transformation movies. The situation for gay Ugandans is dire, but for the groups who have helped to bring this about, Uganda is a prototype to be replicated in countries around the globe. Following are six reasons why we should be paying more attention.

1. Although this could mean life or death to some gay Ugandans, this issue is not limited to gay and lesbian citizens nor is it limited to Ugandans.

As seen in the Transformations movies, an ideology is being taught in which mini-utopias can be achieved in communities around the world through a process of identifying literal demons to be purged. Some may mistake this as spiritualizing a battle against societal ills, but it is not. In Uganda this spiritual warfare has advanced from the abstract (spiritual warfare against demons) to the concrete (targeting the people who are believed to harbor the demons). Once this worldview is embraced, it can be used to demonize any group which is viewed as an obstructing the "Kingdom on earth." These demons/individuals are described as an obstacle to achieving Christian dominion. They therefore become the reason that illness, poverty, corruption, environmental degradation and other societal ills, can not be miraculous defeated. In plain English, this means that gays and other demonized groups are claimed as the cause of the misfortune of others.

2. Uganda is viewed as a prototype for merging church and state.



Globalizing the Culture Wars: US Conservatives, African Churches, & Homophobia

A groundbreaking investigation by Political Research Associates (PRA) discovered that sexual minorities in Africa have become collateral damage to our domestic conflicts and culture wars. U.S. conservative evangelicals and those opposing gay pastors and bishops within mainline Protestant denominations woo Africans in their American fight:
http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/index.php

Lou Engle Supports Principled Stand of Ugandan Anti-Gay Bill Promoters
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposne...

Lou Engle Only One of Many of Sen. Brownback's New Apostolic Reformation Apostle Problems
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/10/17/11135/471/F...

Transforming Uganda - video
http://www.vimeo.com/8749833

Bios of American and Ugandan Leaders in "Transforming Uganda"
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/10/14/213822/52

Six Reasons Americans Should Care About What Is Happening In Uganda
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/10/14/154827/99

Resource Directory for the New Apostolic Reformation
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/1/20/131544/037

Sam Brownback Under Fire For Ties To Controversial Evangelist Lou Engle
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/10/12/192218/65


Elite Fundamentism - The Fellowship's gospel of Capitalist Power
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2008/23

Jeff Sharlet: Yes, exactly, and in fact they latched on to Museveni after Siad Barre the former dictator of Somalia died, and that was a relationship they'd forged through Senator Chuck Grassley, the conservative Republican from Iowa and still in office in the United States, and he went to see Siad Barre who was Muslim, and he said, 'Look, I want to talk to you', Barre had been a Soviet client and now he was looking to switch sides. He said, 'I want to talk to you, I can arrange meetings for you with the Pentagon, but first we need to talk about Jesus, we need to pray.' And these dictators were no dummies, they understood that the price was being exacted, which was an ideological one, a theological one, and guys like Soeharto, of course Muslim as well, were more than happy to pray to Jesus in exchange for this massive military aid. Museveni is really only the latest of these characters, who, it's pretty transparent the relationship. I write in the book about Museveni makes friends with a major family businessman, a guy named Dennis Bakke, who was at the time the CEO of AES, one of the largest energy corporations in the world, at a mid-'90s National Prayer Breakfast, and then gives Bakke a new big contract for a $500-million hydroelectric dam, which Uganda doesn't need. Well everybody's making money, they all think they're doing God's work, and they're being supported effectively by the American government, which is sort of subsidizing this kind of thing.

Stephen Crittenden: Just going back to Uganda, one public policy outcome of this connection with President Museveni is that through him, they were able to export a Christian fundamentalist abstinence program into Uganda's policy about how to deal with AIDS. In the 1990s Uganda was being held up for its ABC policy, Abstinence, Be faithful, use a Condom. Ten years later, the results are very poor.

Jeff Sharlet: It's one of the most dismaying tragedies in the fight against AIDS. Uganda was a country that had really turned around. It had a high AIDS rate, and through using this program had turned it around, had actually successfully rolled back the AIDS rate. But because it became so enmeshed with the American Christian Right, and the American Christian Right is part of President Bush's AIDS program, was able to put pressure on these countries to drop the 'C' from the ABC. So they still want Abstinence, they believe in abstinence, but they don't want Condoms. And indeed Uganda backed very sharply away from condoms, and as predictably as any scientist could have told you, the AIDS rate skyrocketed, and people are dying again. And the most horrifying part about that, for some of these people, that's not a problem. I spoke to Senator Sam Brownback about this, who has worked actually with Senator Clinton to change the laws governing US foreign aid to make it so that we can't give money to any organisation that works with prostitutes. The example Brownback's Chief Legislative Director gave me, he said he would rather a Thai prostitute die of AIDS than have her soul imperilled by using a condom. And it's just an absolutely horrifying vision of what the Gospel says.



God and the Fight Against AIDS
April 28, 2005
Helen Epstein
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2005/apr/28/god-and-the-fight-against-aids/?pagination=false

The Less They Know, the Better
Abstinence-Only HIV/AIDS Programs in Uganda
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/uganda0305/index.htm

[backscatter712]

16. That's it. Rick Warren, Sam Brownback, Lou Engle, etc. want to bring that shit here.

That's why they promote it over there, to slowly build support for theocracy in the United States.

Let them be in charge, and they will start executing people for homosexuality.

[Shallah Kali]

40. it's practice for the day they can let their freak flag fly freely in the US

they do and say over there what they don't dare do and say over here.

[Shallah Kali]

41. it's practice for the day they can let their freak flag fly freely in the US

they do and say over there what they don't dare do and say over here.

[Raksha]

48. Thanks for reposting this article, Shallah.

I posted it as a separate topic a few days ago but it sank like a rock. Maybe this time it will get more attention. I want everyone to know that "American Taliban" is a perfectly valid description of the Dominionists/Christian Reconstructionists/New Apostolic Reformation--and I want them to know WHY.

[laughingliberal]

37. How did you arrive in 2010 America without noticing the increasing influence of fundamentalist

...Christianity? What did you think they wanted for gay people?

[Rage for Order]

21. Look! Over there!

It's a deflection, a subject change!

:eyes:

[treestar]

6. Good for the Albert Kennedy Trust

Hopefully they can continue to help such young people. A family like that girl's is no family at all.

[yellowwood]

13. What Are You Trying to Say?

That Muslims are bad?

That this family is bad?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

18. Zealotry of any kind is bad. Stalin was a zealot. A batshit crazy one at that. nt

[laughingliberal]

20. Can't speak for the OP but I'll say rigid fundamentalism of any flavor is bad for humans. nt

[backscatter712]

25. I am the OP, and I agree! n/t

[Contrary1]

17. Bravo to this brave young woman,

May her story serve as an inspiration to others who find themselves in similar situations.

[demosincebirth]

19. Oh, how we try to change the subject!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. strange that when it comes to muslim, we mention the religion

but dont when kids from other religions feel forced to hang themselves.

child from christian home hangs himself after school and parents refuse to accept and love him.

its awful this happened but whenever minorities are mentioned, when majorities are not, makes me suspicious of intent

[blondeatlast]

23. +1. nt

[pinboy3niner]

24. +2

ETA: The original thread referred to both Christians and Muslims as "batshit crazy." I don't think the intent is to slam one religion over the other, but to slam both of them equally.

Our members here include many people of faith, and many of them find such attacks on their faith deeply offensive. They have a valid concern.

[backscatter712]

26. In the U.S., when kids from "other religions" commit suicide because they're gay,

99.999999% of the time, that "other religion" is Christianity.

It's the default religion here.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. Yet no one puts that in the title of their article. Like when white people do bad things

[backscatter712]

29. I think you put more thought into the title than I did when I wrote it...

You want my views?

I'm just fed up with ALL religion.

Both Christian and Muslim dogmas have been used to justify horrific atrocities, in this case, horrible mistreatment of members of the GLBT community.

I don't want you to think I'm singling Muslim fundies out - I'm just as pissed at Christian fundies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. No this isn't a question of my over thinking. This is common stereotyping behavior

Many many academic articles have bben published about it, mostly contrasting reporting styles in black vs white criminals

[blondeatlast]

30. The poster already had the exact same post with a diff SL locked

because of the flames.

His/her intent is clear--and it's interesting which posts in this thread AREN'T getting his/her responses.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. Lol.

[backscatter712]

35. Technically, the reason was that I'd bashed both Christianity and Islam in the OP.

I reposted with that sentence removed in this thread.

[JI7]

34. on DU we do

[lightningandsnow]

36. This.

A friend of mine came out as trans to her family, a Catholic family in small-town Ontario. They told her she had two choices; to go to repairative therapy, or to kill herself.

[leftstreet]

39. +1

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. I think you must be thinking of some other discussion forum.

Certainly, DU is never slow to draw attention to the fact that right-wingers are Christians.

Incidentally, there's a massive difference between "refuses to accept and love" and "tries to persuade to commit suicide", and I've never heard of Western Christians trying to do the former to their child because they were gay.

[backscatter712]

46. I've heard of plenty of gay kids who were thrown out on the street by fundie Christian parents.

Just from googling, there are at least tens of thousands, probably more, gay kids who are homeless, who have to live in shelters, and survive by dumpster-diving or prostitution.

Because their CHRISTIAN fundie parents threw their own children out of their homes and left them with no means to support themselves.

I fail to see how this sort of treatment is more than a smidge better than Muslim fundies trying to force their gay kids to commit suicide.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. You really don't think "you're not welcome here" is as bad as "you must kill yourself"?

I do not think that is a sensible position (although I hasten to add that I'm in no way defending the former in anything other than comparative terms).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. I do think "I don't care if you have to whore your body out to survive"

And you should just kill yourself are very similar within their cultural lenses.

Edited to add: this is what happens when teens are thrown out of their houses in this country.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

52. "Within their cultural lenses" is precisely the point I've been making.

Outside their "cultural lenses" - objectively - they're *not* the same; the fact that the more extreme and the less extreme response occupy similar cultural position in the two cultures is rather my point.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. just today some christian dude wished gay children in his school district dead.

[woo me with science]

59. Did he force them into a room with suicide implements and refuse to let them out until dead?

Hmm...

I bet he won't, too. I would even bet money.

[Catherina]

43. +4 n/t

[Bluebear]

65. If it were a Christian family, the thread would be locked as "inflammatory"

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I'm glad Britain is taking this seriously from a LE perspective.

These nutjob fucks need to be in prison.

[defendandprotect]

31. Amazing how male-supremacist religiions actually attack the brain.... but ...

whoever said that religion was good for mental health?


:eyes:

[applegrove]

38. I feel so sorry for LGBT kids from families that subscribe to traditional cultures... INCLUDING

CHRISTIANITY.

[Quantess]

44. Fundamental religious zealots are the scourge of humanity.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. true that

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. true that

[riderinthestorm]

45. You know, you could take out the "Muslim" and just leave "fundamentalist family"

just saying....

For those however that take offense that this is an identifiable (and is identified as a) MUSLIM family vs a CHRISTIAN family - I say fuck off!

Both versions are shit. Blasting the OP for posting the NEWS REPORT headline is shit too. Cultural relativism at DU at it's finest.

It's absolutely crazy that we eat our own if they post anything that portrays Islam in a bad light. Sometimes shit is just that. And religious fundamentalism is just that. Shit. The OP could easily delete the Muslim part but it doesn't change the dynamic - these are shitty patriarchal religions that aren't tolerant of lesbianism or being gay or being bi or transsexual or whatever.

Even so-called "progressive" Muslims like Sufis still believe that homosexuality is a damning offense. Why can't the religious aspect of THIS particular episode of gay bullying be posted?? I condemn them all and posit that pointing out the degrees of pain inflicted on the GLBT community by ALL patriarchal religions shouldn't be a firing offense.

[backscatter712]

47. It's a little late to for me to edit the title in the OP now.

But you have a very good point - fundie is fundie. It doesn't matter if it's Christian fundamentalism or Muslim fundamentalism. It's the same brain-damage that causes irrational, destructive, hateful behavior, just justified with different imaginary, bearded sky-daddies.

A pox on both their houses!

[Quantess]

64. Thank you!

Fundamental religion is the sickness of humanity.

People can believe in God, fine. I do, in an undefined, nebulous, mysterious way. People can be atheists, or they can ascribe to religions just because their tradition influenced them to be this way, while not realy believing it. These people tend to be reasonable, and tend to rely on the scientific method.

Hopefully, if they are open minded to spiritual or philosophical insights, they are honest about it.

People who put THEIR GOD above all else, whether the Christian God (it sure ain't Jesus!) or ALLAH, or whatever their cult is, are probably mentally ill, depending on how severe their affliction is.

[Raksha]

51. Right. A person who says that Islamic fundamenalism is shit isn't saying

or even implying that Christian fundamentalism is NOT shit. Usually, the person thinks they are BOTH shit, at least on DU. Personally, I hate all forms of fundamentalism, including Jewish fundamentalism. The only reason Jewish fundamentalism isn't a bigger problem is because there are fewer Jewish fundies than the other two kinds. But they are every bit as batshit crazy!

Re "Both versions are shit. Blasting the OP for posting the NEWS REPORT headline is shit too. Cultural relativism at DU at it's finest.

"It's absolutely crazy that we eat our own if they post anything that portrays Islam in a bad light. Sometimes shit is just that. And religious fundamentalism is just that. Shit."

[Turborama]

60. This is the 'NEWS REPORT headline': "Tale of gay woman forced to marry to protect 'honour'"

This is the OP's headline: Muslim fundamentalist family tries to get gay daughter to commit suicide.

[backscatter712]

62. Curses! You got me!

You must be psychic, having read my mind like that!

See, I'm not a Democrat. I'm an EEEEEEEEEEEVIL member of Stormfront, the Tea Party and FOX News, who's in here, posting about anti-gay violence and religious batshitery, but my real agenda's to get everyone here to hate brown people!

And thanks to your psychic mind-reading, you'd foiled my EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL plot just before I could go BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, since so many people are misinterpreting my intentions, I guess I do need to use the :sarcasm: smiley...

Perhaps you should read or reread Skinner's latest post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9389848&mesg_id=9389848

[Turborama]

63. I was correcting the poster I was replying to, not that I should have to explain that

Using Skinner's post to belittle me? Yeah, that's really brave and mature.

[Hannah Bell]

56. they put her in her room -- in their house -- with petrol & matches?

why do i doubt this story?

[BolivarianHero]

57. Outside of North Ireland, most fundamentalists in the UK are Muslims...

For whatever, Christian fundamentalism has very little hold even over a lot of deep blue corners of southern and eastern England, which in fact have a similar rate of support for legalization as Scotland, a stronghold for liberals and leftists. Urban centres with a high Muslim population have the lowest rate of evolution belief in the UK (save for unionist pockets in NI), though to their credit, British Muslims are probably much more science-friendly than the Talibornagains. The only place where I've ever heard of a creationist campaign is Northern Ireland, and it's spearheaded by fundamentalist Christians from the Democratic Unionist Party, aka the political wing of the Free Presbyterian Church.

Northern Ireland is a different kettle of fish. The ignorance among religious folks there (particularly unionists) is proof enough that the saddest thing about the IRA is that they never got Paisley.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

61. Don't care what anyone's religion is

but if anyone is seriously trying to get someone to commit suicide for "family honor" they need to look up what honor really is, and then stop submitting to their bullshit ego.