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cbc5g Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 05:55 PM
Original message
The Alcohol Industry and MADD have teamed up
To defeat a proposition that would allow a safer alternative. Never thought I'd see the day, and it looks like they may win, for now. They are on the wrong side of history though.

I guess, to them it is better to keep marijuana unregulated and in the hands of criminals than to regulate?

Doesn't make sense.

I am sure prohibitionists and "culture warriors" will beam with glee if Prop 19 goes down but what they don't know or refuse to acknowledge is that marijuana is semi legal as it is, only needing to pay 150 dollars for a doc to prescribe it to you for any number of reasons. And legalization will be on the ballot in Colorado in 2 years as well as in California again shortly after this one possibly fails.

All this does is set back legalization a few years. They will lose in the end.

No one is for drugged driving, but people aren't going to stop smoking because Prop 19 loses. The anti 19 folks are just rebelling against what they perceive to be the counter culture, the facts just aren't on their side.

The winners: Cartels, Big alcohol, tobacco, police, lawyers and the prison industry
The losers: People..especially minorities who are disproportionately effected by prohibition laws.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. IRONIC isn't it? They won't win though...
in the end, marijuana will be legalized.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R n/t
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twenty20 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Winners and "Losers" ?
I think you right on with your conclusions and "winners" list, but I would add anyone who votes against the prop. to the losers list!
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Actually, I would not put the police in the "winners" column. I've seen
a lot police that are advocating legalization.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Agreed. Many of them know they're wasting their time with enforcement on that front.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yeah, but REAL criminals carry automatic weapons.
Little danger in busting pot smokers.

Dealers, on the other hand, are profiting from prohibition and can afford AK-47s.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. their job would be a bit easier. nt
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. One can't help but wonder how much drug cartel money is actually in this
anti Prop 19 campaign.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. It has always been the Liquor lobby and Big Tobacco against MJ Reform...
.. as long as the FEDS are throwing innocent people in jail for harmless MJ.. they are not messing with Tobacco and Liquor.

Its a "win-Win" for the big corps....
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Your disrespect for MADD is disgusting! Do you know why MADD was even founded?!
MADD was founded in 1980 by Candy Lightner after her daughter, Cari, was killed by a REPEAT drunk driving offender.

If you had lost a loved one because someone was carelessly driving under the influence you wouldn't support legalization either.

I lost my mom to a drunk driver almost 30 years ago and the pain of that loss have NEVER gone away.

Your argument is BS, because MORE people and MORE teenagers will smoke MJ if it is legalized which means more idiots will get behind the wheel and KILL PEOPLE.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. MADD has become a neo-prohibitionist organization with ties to the temperance "movement"
I have no respect for that organization and little for those who belong to it. Many of the members of MADD want alcohol banned- again- with no sale or distribution anywhere.

It is not the organization Candy Lightner founded, and she has since left MADD for other things.

"It has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I ever wanted or envisioned," she says. "I didn't start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving." Lightner emphasized the importance of distinguishing between drinking alcohol on one hand and drunk driving on the other.

Smoking and driving is not even close to the same thing as drinking and driving (scientists who have studied this agree), everyone who wants pot now can get it now (yes, including teens), and oh yes, cannabis doesn't impair one's abilities in nearly the same ways as alcohol.

I'm not saying you should get baked and go driving (even though many do every day). I'm saying yours is a piss-poor excuse to be against Prop 19.
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. MADD doesn't care about drunk driving anymore
They're simply a neo-prohibitionist group that's anti-alcohol, not anti-DUI.

Compared to Europe, the DUI laws here are appallingly pathetic. They take it far more seriously over there.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. MADD = Neo-Prohibitionist thugs.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Prohibition doesn't stop millions of people from getting stoned.
Edited on Wed Oct-27-10 11:51 PM by Starbucks Anarchist
And for you to equate drunk driving with driving while high is illogical.

By the way, why is MADD teaming up with the very industry that creates drunk drivers in the first place? Can you answer that? In fact, why don't you post concrete evidence of stoned drivers killing people *solely* due to pot?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. oh for fuck's sake. you're pulling an opinion out of your ass
I'm a female and, honestly, I am SICK of females who think they can prohibit something for adults because of their (sometimes misplaced) fear about their children.

are you aware that legalization contains strict laws about giving marijuana to anyone under the age of 21? - laws that can and will be enforced.

are you aware that, in those nations that have decriminalized drug use, drug use has dropped?

are you aware that anti-drug campaigns in the U.S. had the REVERSE effect on drug usage for teens?

are you aware that teens who want to obtain cannabis can now get it more easily than they can get alcohol because it is sold in their schools?

if you're not aware of these things, why do you make this unsupported statement that more teenagers will smoke pot and... KILL PEOPLE (BIG SCARE CAPS.)

I don't want anyone to smoke pot and drive. however, if I had a choice, I would prefer to share the road with a pot smoker rather than a drinker.

instead of scare tactics, people who are concerned about teens using cannabis should inform them about responsible behavior, which includes not driving. they should make it evident to their children that, if they drink or use cannabis, they should be responsible and call a taxi or a parent to pick them up because the goal is safety - even when or if a teenager does something he or she shouldn't.

this is how to cut down on stupid actions like driving under the influence. not by pretending that prohibition stops people from doing stupid things - it doesn't.

I'm sorry you lost a family member to a drunk driver. I would not wish that one anyone. however, because a few people are irresponsible is no reason to assume everyone is irresponsible.

I have two young adult children and neither or them drinks or smokes (anything.) I do know they have some friends who do. I also know that they have been in situations with designated drivers because the people they know realize that is the responsible thing to do.

They knew, all through their teen years, that if they were EVER in a situation in which someone had been drinking, they were IN NO WAY to ever get in a car with such a person and that they could call, no questions asked, and get picked up (any friend, as well) from where ever they were - because the goal was not punishment but safety.

if my kids had grown up hearing that anyone who drank was a bad person they would have known that's a lie. If they had grown up afraid to seek help in a situation because of the fear that they would get someone else in trouble they would have been more likely to put themselves or someone else in a dangerous situation.

at no time was there ever a question of drinking being okay for them as minors - but it also wasn't something to pretend was not part of circumstances in which they might find themselves at parties, etc.

you don't deal with problems by trying to scare people. you deal with problems by trying to find solutions - by honest assessment of dangers and options in a variety of situations.

maybe the answer to this fear of teenagers driving while under the influence would be to raise the driving age to 18 and making public transportation part of American life - that makes far more sense than trying to enforce prohibition on adults because children should not participate in some activity.

we don't outlaw sex because we don't want children to have sex. it makes no sense to outlaw cannabis because we don't want children to use it.


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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. So now MADD is going to team up with those they considered enemies
to fight a bigger evil? Please, all this control garbage is so you follow a govt agenda that spouts 'think for yourself' but don't do drugs...its all grade A bullshit. Kids today laugh at that kind of stuff. It is just the elders who can't stand losing control over a younger generation that is at fault here.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. MADD is all about power and money these days. nt
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. And MADD has no problem with alcohol being legal?
At the same time, they do not want Marijuana to be legal?
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. What.The.Fuck...
...is MADD doing in bed with the alcohol industry?

Unbelieveable!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. MADD jumped the shark years ago.
they have degenerated into a prohibitionist cult.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Even if it doesn't pass, they will lose, as it's decriminalized as of Jan 1.
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