Can we **at least** agree that Kendrick Meek has every right to stay in the race?

[Stinky The Clown]

Can we agree on that?

I sure hope so.

Can we agree that this narrative is also largely true?

Meek was nominated by his party. Pretty much fair and square. While he may not have been the most exciting candidate, neither was he a Christine O'Donnell or an Alvin Greene. He is a legitimate candidate who got there by legitimate means. I dare say that if he had gotten more enthusiastic (=$$) support from the national Dems early on, he could well be on his way to Washington as a Senator.

Meanwhile, Charlie Crist failed to get the nomination of his party, instead watching a fascist flake get the nod when more of his party's fringe voters turned out than reasonable voters. So Crist, as seems to be fashionable this year, decided to run the Lieberman way. Initially popular because he once hugged Obama, he seemed like a good choice to people more concerned with stopping Rubio than getting a real Democrat elected. This built up a well of support for him from disaffected Democrats who felt Meek was the wrong guy (an actual lefty to some, a corrupt legacy politician by others), even in the face of a man who hung out with Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush, and who has a history of hard right stances on many issues. Meek was increasingly burdened by the "concern"-turned-to-fact phenomenon that too often happens when a politician fails to get in front of a story, in this case, the story's of Meek many percieved (contrived?) "weaknesses."

On the other hand, Crist's *only* failing as a repubican was not being far enough right, not being extreme enough, not being a sufficiently flaky personality as to appeal to the far right extremists who voted as a majority in Florida's repubican primary. And that now seems to be his undoing.

Who should have dropped out of the race?

The duly and popularly elected Kendrick Meek? Or the opportunist right winger who wasn't crazy enough for his base?

If you won't give me a break, please, at least direct me to Breaks R Us so I can buy one.

[joeybee12]

1. I think it's too late for either to drop out...

If it were to have been Meek, the democratic Party should have "enticed" him with something to do so...I never saw that happening. Instead, splinters of Dems started endorsing Crist without any real plan to win...destined to fail. Too bad, but the ship has sailed and Dems only have themselves to blame for this one.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Thank you . . . .

. . . . which is what I have been saying since this shitstorm first flared up.

[Deep13]

5. True. We never fail to eat our own. nt

[Deep13]

3. No, this isn't about him.

I'm not saying he ought to drop out, just that this has nothing to do with his rights. I know Crist is a slime ball, but I'd rather see him win than Rubio. The case for Meeks dropping out would be a lot more convincing if Crist promised to caucus with the Ds.

[alsame]

18. The fact that Crist won't say who he will caucus with should be a

huge red flag. Even last night on Countdown, he said he has to 'ask questions' of both parties before deciding.

WTF? He's claimed the GOP got too radical, what questions does he need answered? I call BS, I think he'll go to the GOP claiming some high road to try and bring them back to the center.

If he was as disgusted as he claims, he would have left the GOP before losing the primary. His every move is very transparent.

[Lorien]

40. Ahem:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101029/el_yblog_upshot/adviser-crist-would-caucus-with-democrats

[Fla_Democrat]

45. Ahem

It's unclear if Morgan's statement was authorized by the campaign. A Crist spokesman did not respond to requests for comment. Either way, it's another sign of Crist's last-ditch attempts to woo Democratic votes in the final days of the campaign.

[alsame]

47. That's not what he himself said on Thurs. night on Countdown. nt

[chimpymustgo]

4. I agree, we could've won this seat. But Dems - always eager to compromise, capitulate and move right

decided NOT to get behind Meek, but flirt with Craven Crist.

I think race was a factor as well, couched as "well he doesn't have name recognition." The Dems didn't TRY to win this. And we will all reap what they have sown.

[gateley]

6. Of course he has the right. I'm just not sure that the party will benefit from

the outcome.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. In my view, in this case, "the party" deserves what it gets

"The party" didn't do jack fucking shit for Meek.

[blondeatlast]

15. EGGZACTLY. They had an opportunity and they failed to take it.

Crist's independent run was a golden ring but the gawddamned FL Dems were terrified of the merry-go-round and not paying attention when they passed it.

:banghead:

[gateley]

22. Oh, I totally agree that the party really let us and him down, Stinky. But the "party" getting

what it deserves means WE get Rubio in the Senate! How does ANYONE benefit by that?

[Mojorabbit]

37. This is the florida dem party

and it sucks. He did not campaign till the past few weeks. No one in central florida knows anything about him and I am guessing it is the same in north florida. Crist had the name recognition and a moderate reputation. The name recognition alone is worth a lot in politics. If the national party had come in early and helped finance Meek maybe he would have had a chance but they did not and these appearances the past week with Clinton are just too late.
It is what it is.

[Unvanguard]

7. The problem with Crist dropping out is that Rubio would beat Meek.

But Crist would probably have beaten Rubio in a two-way election (especially if he had been spared a competitor to his left.)

Probably too late to do anything about this now. You are certainly right that Meek has a "right" to remain a candidate, though I don't think that that's a particularly important point: e.g., it is true also that people have a right to vote Republican.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. You say that as if, months ago, it was a foregone conclusion he would beat Meek.

How would that be known? Why did the Dems not get behind Meek? Or, if the Dems really didn't want Meek, why did they not back an alternate? There are lots of other name recognized Dems in Florida.

This shitstorm is the fault of the DNC and the DSCC. Pure and Simple.

[Unvanguard]

16. Meek's polling has never been very good.

And Florida is a "purple" state--perhaps even a red-leaning purple state--and this is a terrible Senate election cycle for Democrats. It is very doubtful that Meek would have made it.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. That is pure speculation and surmise. But even assuming its true . . . .

. . . . why didn't the Dems back an alternate?

And just a note: Jimmy Carter was polling lower than whale shit when he started his successful run for the white house. Just sayin'.

[Unvanguard]

23. Candidates with poor name recognition usually poll poorly at first.

But the fundamentals of that election were good for Jimmy Carter. The fundamentals of this one are not good for Kendrick Meek. He has been perpetually in third place, something more name recognition has not cured, and probably wouldn't get anywhere near all of the Crist supporters if Crist dropped out. Rubio does not need much to get over 50%.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. You're still missing my essential point

In fairness, I may not have made it sufficiently clear.

Meek had low name ID. Okay, fine. If the Dems got behind him, that could have been changed very fast. Crist could have been made out to be the "flash in the pan". Meek could well have gotten a lot of the DefectorDems.

But we'll never know because not even the damn Dem party gave Meek a chance.

You're arguing the here and now and I guess I'm arguing the what could have been.

[katandmoon]

8. Of course he does and ITA. Crist is a stinking POS.

[AndrewP]

9. I support Meek 100 %

Even if it does end up a loss. The other two candidates are both right wingers. One more nuts than the other, but right wingers none the less.

[blondeatlast]

11. Meek isn't losing this race, the numbnut FL Democratic Party is.

The Florida Party--and the DSCC should have ramped up the support for Meek when Crist splintered off in a hissy fit. Opportunity knocks but once; this time it tried to break down the door, but the FL Democrats weren't even in the office when it arrived during normal biz hours.

Meek dropping out now would hurt for downticket Dems.

I'm wicha, Stinky.

[MineralMan]

12. I'll go even farther.

I'd rather see Rubio win than Crist. Here's why: If Crist wins, the Obama administration and the Senate leadership will waste time trying to swing Crist over whenever there's an bill that comes up. Most of the time, he won't, and will vote with the Republican Caucus. With Rubio, we'll know exactly where he'll go, and can just write him off as another GOOPer and focus our energy somewhere else.

I have never once believed that Crist will be anything but the Republican that he is. He'll obstruct anything important, like all good Republicans do, so why waste time on him.

That's a little convoluted, I know, but it's what I think would happen with Crist. So, it's good that Meek stays in the race, from my perspective.

[MadHound]

14. Wow, for another rare time I agree with you.

Nice point, nice post, thank you.

[blondeatlast]

17. Absolutely agree. nt

[BlueDogMizzou]

21. Let me get this straight MineralMan..

you don't think Christ is telling the truth when he says he'll caucus with the Senate Democrats?

5 months ago a Republican, last month an Independent, now a Democrat... I'm sure he is telling the truth, honest. ;)

[MineralMan]

Actually, he has never actually said that he would.

He waffles on that question every time it is asked. It's wishful thinking to suppose that this Republican is on our side. I do not believe that for a minute.

[BlueDogMizzou]

34. I don't for a second either...

but I read it on CNN and now on here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4592993&mesg_id=4592993

[alsame]

25. Agreed. Rubio would have less power than Crist. nt

[Tatiana]

26. I'm going to agree with you as well. Let Rubio win. Let the Repukes have what they voted for.

Crist would not caucus in good faith with the Dems anyway. All the talk is of Crist being better than Rubio. That's like saying Murwhatshername is better than Miller. Maybe, not in the ways that matter to us in terms of legislation and governance.

[Dappleganger]

41. You bring up some great points...

and this Floridian agrees with you and the OP.

[PopSixSquish]

46. Hell, We Can't Even Get So-Called Democrats Like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln to Vote With Us

How much time and energy has been spent on trying to get Susan Collins or Olympia Snowe to vote with the Democratic Party. Joe Lieberman?

Oh Charlie won't be so bad. As the OP said, either "gimme a break" or show me where I can buy one...

[Zhade]

48. There's another danger -- if this was in any way orchestrated by the Rs...

...what's to stop them from doing this again and forcing Dems to vote for the just-slightly-less-rightwing 'independent' to stop the nutjob Repub?

Total setup, this.

[Gaedel]

50. This was orchestrated

purely by the ego of Charlie Crist. He thought he was ordained to be senator. He even appointed his staffer (LeMieux) to keep the seat warm for him. A funny thing happened to Charlie on the way to his coronation. Rubio began campaigning and it looked like the mood was such that Charlie wouldn't have a shoo-in for the primary. Instead of honestly going head-to-head with Rubio in the primary and "may the best man win", Charlie figured he was so popular and bi-partisan that he could "triangulate".

Now normally in a reddish purple state like Florida, a GOP split would be great for the Democratic candidate to sneak in to a plurality. Unfortunately, Charlie "triangulated" and scarfed up a bunch of Dem votes. Charlie pissed off enough Republicans so that they began to unite around Rubio.

Most likely outcome is that Rubio wins and Charlie is toast as a Republican. Look for old Charlie to come sniffing around a Florida Dem primary in the next election cycle.

[Skinner]

20. Yes, we can agree.

Of course he has the right to stay in the race.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Thanks for weighing in on my thread, Skinner.

It isn't often threads get such attention.

[Common Sense Party]

24. Yes, he has the right to stay in the race. He's the candidate.

Even if he dropped out now, his name is still on the ballot. Would all his votes automatically be given to Crist? I don't think so. Some people will vote straight D or will vote for him, whether he said he was dropping out or not.

[Arkana]

27. Absolutely.

[AlabamaLibrul]

28. It's like the old "Qualified to be President?" "Well... they're 35..." Of course he has every right

And I believe that Democrats have the *responsibility* to support a fairly progressive Democratic candidate over a Republican who switched to "Independent" because he got primaried by a Teabagger.

Of course, whether or not anyone agrees with me on that is irrelevant to the election results as it's pretty much a foregone conclusion now.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. I may have misunderstood you . . . . .

. . . . are you suggesting he isn't intellectually qualified to be in the race? Your having cited the old "Well... they're 35..." thing is what's confusing.

[AlabamaLibrul]

36. What I'm saying, however poorly, is that anyone who won't even agree to the premise you pose

Is just being ridiculous. Of course he has every right. A bonus is that he's well-aligned with Dems on the issues. I believe that Dems have the responsibility to support a true *Dem*, a good guy on policy, versus a Repub-turned-"independent", versus a Teabagger. We're not talking about trying to get Bernie Sanders elected here in Alabama, where pragmatism has to take over at some point. We're talking about a real, decent, progressive but not ultra-far-left Dem. We should be behind Meek like there's no tomorrow!

Or otherwise.... He has the right to run, Dems have the responsibility to support him. They're giving him the Stupak (or cold-shoulder, "I won't support him" etc) treatment, while he has two opponents significantly to the right of him.

[GSLevel9]

29. Back of the bus, boy...

Now be good and drop out Kendrick.

:sarcasm:

Complete and utter bullshit. So the new strategy is dump the real dem to elect the pub?

If you're going to lose, as a party... Then take your lumps.

[Dappleganger]

42. There's that, too...

but of course nobody wants to bring up the race issues within the FL democratic party.

[Kind of Blue]

32. Resounding Yes!

KnR

[BootinUp]

33. Yes nt

[madinmaryland]

38. " The duly and popularly elected Kendrick Meek? Or the opportunist right winger who wasn't crazy

enough for his base".

Meeks was chosen by the Democratic Party of Florida. Crist (not Christ) was able to qualify under the laws of Florida as an Independent candidate.

Now, that being said, if either Crist or Meeks were to bow out, I don't think either could pull the total amount the other has and win the election. A month ago, maybe, but not now.

But back to the original point, Meeks has every right to run, since he was selected by Democratic Party voters.

eom.

[tkmorris]

44. Since we're being picky, I do believe it's "Meek"

Just sayin' ;-)

[Lorien]

39. Sure, just as Nader did. nt

[Zhade]

49. Wow. So now, on DU, the duly elected Dem candidate is equivalent to Nader?

You know the phrase 'jumped the shark'?

[Lorien]

52. Um, in America any citizen over a certain age can run for office.

whether you like it or not.

[cynatnite]

43. Of course he has the right, but he still can't win...

It's too late for him to pull out.

Not only that, even if he did and Crist promised to caucus with the Dems, you can't trust that. Crist could change his mind on that if he thinks that being more repuke-like will keep him in office.

The pragmatic part of me says to go with the lesser to two evils, but my gut says Crist can't be trusted. I think I'd still vote for Meeks even though he won't win.

[LostInAnomie]

51. Sure, he has the right. I have the right to take a shit in my pool too.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea or makes any sense though.