SC mom upset daughter was taken to get birth control without her knowledge...

[cynatnite]

A South Carolina mother is upset her 14-year-old daughter was driven from school to a clinic for a birth control shot.

The Post and Courier of Charleston reported the woman was outraged. Her name was not released.

The student was taken to the clinic after classes at Burke High by a worker for the Carolina Empowerment Group, a nonprofit organization working to increase awareness of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

State law allows health services for minors without parental consent, although contraceptives may not be distributed at schools.

Burke principal Charles Benton says the nonprofit is not supposed to take students to clinics. But he says the services provided by the group at Burke are important because of high teen pregnancy rates.

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=532575

It's far better than the girl winding up being pregnant at 14.

[Mokoil]

1. I don't want ANY jackass

Taking my child for ANY medical procedure without my knowledge.

I would literally go homicidal on them.

It's not the state's God damned job to raise my child, it's mine.

[cynatnite]

9. What if the daughter was afraid to go to her mother?

That's why they made it available in the first place. So that teens who were afraid to go to their parents can get birth control. It's better than being 14 years old and pregnant.

[Dappleganger]

10. Exactly.

[baldguy]

15. Bingo.

It's precisely because some adults go "homicidal" over the sexuality of their children that the laws should allow minors access to birth control without parental consent.

[cynatnite]

I have two daughers and my attitudes changed...

because I read about parents who lost their daughter because she tried to give herself an abortion. The girl couldn't get one without her parents' consent and she couldn't get birth control. The girl didn't come to them either. She died. I remember reading that the parents are lobbying for teenagers to have access to birth control services and abortions without parents consent.

I was lucky to have daughters who came to me for birth control, but it's not always the case.

[24601]

84. What about medical pot? n/t

[baldguy]

89. What about it? What about Chewbacca?

But then, I don't think medical marijuana or Chewbacca are contraceptives.

[24601]

96. But I thought the argument being made was that mom or dad

would go ballistic and pose a danger. Why would it be different for different medical care?

[baldguy]

107. Because some parents can't handle the idea that their teenaged children might have sex.

Which creates huge problems, and which have been presented elsewhere in this thread.

[24601]

116. What if they can't handle them smokin weed? Mine woulda

been none to pleased to say it politely. So why can't some nonprofit take bummed-out kids to the medical pot store when their parents can't be trusted?

[baldguy]

118. Again: Hardly the same thing.

Not being able to smoke marijuana won't possibly kill you - or leave you pregnant.

[eggplant]

187. What an idiotic strawman.

Teenage minors aren't allowed to have medical marijuana. They *are* allowed to have birth control without parental consent. It's not up to you.

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

286. Teenage minors (or just minors) are allowed to have medical marijauna with a prescription in

states that have medical marijuana laws. But not without their parent's/legal guardian's consent.

For example, here is the application for: http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/ommp/minor.pdf?ga=t">DECLARATION OF PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR A MINOR TO PARTICIPATE IN Oregon Medical Marijuana Program

But that has nothing to do with contraceptives.

[Warren DeMontague]

199. Because if your need to control your kids extends to the point of preventing them from access to

contraception, it is YOU who has the problem.

Teenagers have sex. They did when I was a teenager, they did when my parents were teenagers, they did when THEIR parents were teenagers. They sure as shit still do today.

Whether or not the state was in the right regarding providing transportation, there are legitimate reasons to offer confidential reproductive services to kids, particularly because their parents may "freak out". Hopefully, most families have open communication and it's not needed. But it should be there for the situations that aren't like that.

[timtom]

342. Really?

How about with WHOM they have sex? Any parental input on that?

[uppityperson]

343. Are you seriously asking if parents need to consent to whom adolescents have sex with?

[timtom]

345. Do you seriously think it not to be an issue?

[uppityperson]

349. You think adolescents need parental persmission as to whom they can have sex with.

Seriously? You think adolescents should get permission about whom to be sexually involved with.

[timtom]

351. So, your 13 year old daughter

is involved with a 45 year old man. No problem, right? School teacher. Priest, pastor or rabbi. Pop music star.

[Warren DeMontague]

352. That's clearly against the law. You DO have say, b/c you can and should have that person arrested.

But it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not teens have the right to confidential reproductive care.

And using the 45 yr. old child abuser as a red herring to justify this fantasyland where parents are going to keep their kids (lets be honest, their daughters, right?) from having sex before the parents, personally, give the a-okay... seriously, bub, dream on. :eyes:

[timtom]

353. Self-delete.

Never mind.

[uppityperson]

355. That is against the law so yes, there is a problem.

[timtom]

356. And the parents would know of this illicit assignation -- how?

[uppityperson]

357. darn du glitches. Please reply to other reply below since this one doesn't show in My Du and I'd

hate to miss what comes next.

[uppityperson]

358. glitch so doesn't show in "my du". You tell me, it is your scenario. nt

[aquart]

254. The medical pot store?

You mean take a sick kid for something to relieve incessant nausea? WHAT A GOOD IDEA! Why didn't his idiot parents think of it?

Where did you get the idea that medical pot is dispensed like candy?

[Mokoil]

17. Feel free to give up your parental rights to the state

I'll fight to keep mine.

[cynatnite]

26. That's not what this is about...

It's about protecting the teenager. If the girl believes she is going to have sex and wants to protect herself, she should be able to do that. She may believe her mother wouldn't allow it. The girl should be empowered to protect herself.

[Mokoil]

30. Do you have kids?

[cynatnite]

33. I have three...two of them are daughters...

I've gone through this with my kids and I know what's at stake. I'm lucky. My kids came to me when the time came and I made sure they were protected. Not all teenagers will do that. Getting birth control is a far better option than winding up pregnant where the risks are far higher.

[Mokoil]

37. Mine came to me too

Maybe people who can't raise their kids in manner that instills trust, should be the ones getting the shot.

[cynatnite]

38. This is why teenagers should have this alternative. n/t

[riderinthestorm]

91. This girl may be getting raped by her father, uncle, brother, stepfather,

neighbor next door, mother's boyfriend....

She may have already gone to her mother to get birth control (and tell of the abuse) and her mother didn't believe her.

Your ASSumption that this mother/daughter (father/brother/uncle/stepfather/mother's boyfriend etc. etc.) relationship is healthy tells me you obviously DON'T know about all the potential issues a young girl may be facing where she may need birth control without parental consent.

Kids from some of the finest parents I've ever known have been wild things. Those parents did everything right, raising other siblings who turned out fine except for the one who didn't. The one girl who needs it may have loving, caring parents - you don't know shit about any of this. Your ASSumptions about anyone else's family life are crap imho.

[Mokoil]

94. Then I suppose this heroic state worker

Should be taking the girl to the police to file charges, and then to a safe house, instead making sure the rapists doesn't have to worry about getting her pregnant.

riderinthestorm, you have just presented the most illogical argument I have seen yet.

[tammywammy]

The driver was an employee of Carolina Empowerment Group, not a state worker

The group is funded by private donations and foundations, and is not funded by the school district.

[Mokoil]

100. Thank you

For your input without an attack.

I was unaware the group wass private. That makes it even worse. You have other private individuals making parental decisions.

[tammywammy]

103. The group didn't make the decision

The teen went to THEM to request getting birth control. The teen made the decision for herself.

[bettyellen]

111. oh noes, only parents or big bad healthcare providers can be the deciders here!!!

i got hte memo, loud and clear.

[tammywammy]

117. You know I went to my mom when I was ready to get on bc

But I fully understand that these laws aren't for families where that can happen. Considering the area has a high percentage of teen pregnancies, according to the principal, it's a good thing that teens have access to birth control.

I had a good friend in high school that was impregnated due to rape. She felt she couldn't tell her family about the rape nor the pregnancy. She went and got an abortion on her own (I only found out after the fact, since she blamed herself quite a bit). She was over 18 at the time, but I cannot imagine what lengths she would have gone to if she had been forced to tell her parents.

[bettyellen]

119. i have seen it happen too, trust me.. which is why it freaks me out when people assume

it;s so damned easy for this girl. and so damned asy for the parents to assume they ought to take over and make all the girls choices.
im sorry, im seeing lots of control freaks here, some pretending it;s about a bud vs car. Im not buying it.

[Barack_America]

126. They decided which clinic she went to and who would give her care, based on where they drove her.

[bettyellen]

128. WOW!! No, you see, SHE decided all that. and you think thats bad?

again with the car, LOL . come on already with that nonsense.
it appears you don;t believe she did have a choice, or that she should. SCREW THAT.

[Barack_America]

134. What evidence do you have that they presented her with a variety of clinics?

And, yes, again with the car. I'd be pissed if this woman drove my daughter away from school to get ice cream. Giving private individuals the right to take other people's children away from school campuses is a dangerous precedent to set.

[tammywammy]

136. You don't have evidence they didn't give her a choice in clinics either. n/t

[bettyellen]

140. and school put kids in moving vehicles all the time... the "choice" isn;t wide enough so...

you;re solution is that they should offer no choices, no clinics at all, LOLZ, good one!

[Barack_America]

154. What the hell are you talking about?

1). No school transports kids away from school without parental permission. Heard of "permission slips"? How many field trips did you go on without your parents signing off?

2). For the last time, I support access to birth control information in schools. Hell, I would support the school distributing birth control if they could get an OB/GYN there to do it. I do not support schools allowing children to be removed from school campuses by groups affiliated with them without parental consent.

[bettyellen]

158. you support giving info and depriving access, you complain they didn;t give her a menu of clinics

but complain they actually took her to one. I know how this works in the real world. you tipped your hand pretty bad admitting you thought the clinic made all the decisions for her. Yikes.

[Barack_America]

163. Clearly. Was it when I said I wished schools could distribute birth control directly....

...that convinced you I was hell bent on depriving girls of access?

:eyes:

Also, where did I say that the clinic made the decisions for her?

[bettyellen]

171. easy to say when you know they are not allowed to, easy to make this

about baptisms or strange men in cars or whatever,
easy for you to wish her no access to care. because that;s not paramount to you. well, if you haven;t noticed, its very very important to women here. we're not living in your hypotheitical world where mom;s offer bc like candy, either.
unlike you, we are living with what is, in the real world. when you care to join - and support us there, I welcome you.
But your hypothetical world has grown truly tiresome.

[uppityperson]

165. Really. They (OMG) took her to a clinic that provided what she needed!

After SHE asked THEM! I mean, REALLY!!!!!!!!! How DARE THEY!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

:sarcasm:

[Barack_America]

155. So neither of us have information about the choices she made/was given.

[tammywammy]

157. We know the most important choice she made

She made the decision to ask about getting bc. That's the most important choice there is, and she exercised that by going to the group and asking for it.

[bettyellen]

160. and supporting that means supporting her with access as well.

it's no good if she can only get bc and healthcare in theory. but lots of people wold find any excuse to prevent her from getting what she needs.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

162. Wrong. She asked for help. It was her choice to go. Try this scenario:

I hear I can get The Shot dude, can you help me?

Sure ma'am. We can take you there.

Cool! Far out! Neato beano!

Meet us after school at the corner and we'll take you.

Thanks!

Meet, drive, go into clinic.

May we help you?

Yes, I'd like The Shot!

OK, please fill out these forms, including contact info and medical history.

Thanks!
---------------
It was her choice. She asked for a specific thing, and got it from those who could provide it. They drove her to the clinic that could help her, not the optician next door.

[bettyellen]

168. im still blown away at how patriarchal that post was, little gal just couldnlt have decided on her

own, No, we can't let that happen, let;s find a loophole to stop her, and all the other dumb tramps too, it;s like the fifties in here.

[Barack_America]

169. "the clinic"

Because all "clinics" and medical care are created equally.

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

178. No. The orthopedic surgeon next door probably couldn't have helped her

eyeroll back at you.

[bettyellen]

121. the girl was making the decison, or did you not notice/ care about that part?

[dionysus]

246. it's not a "parental decision" you RW freeper troll.

[riderinthestorm]

99. Yes, because rape victims are so rational

and so willing to undergo the rape kit test and press charges and undergo the police interrogation (yes, INTERROGATION of the victim).

A 14 year old girl may not even have told the state worker about any of the above. She just may be desperate to protect herself.

Your illogical rejection of anything other than slutty teen behavior as the cause for a birth control shot is the most illogical that I've ever seen.

signed, riderinthestorm, mother of 2 girls and foster mom to several more, rape crisis counselor and women's shelter volunteer for more than 30 years.

ETA: even if she does just want the birth control to protect herself from a teen pregnancy, more power to her! She's obviously way smarter than mom!

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

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[bettyellen]

114. OMG you're so right, just tell that girl how to handle her most personal decisons, force her to do

things your way. Got it. Thanks for the big reveal.

[Mokoil]

115. You have NOTHING

That's more than obvious.

[Skittles]

219. you sound like an idiot repuke

[uppityperson]

220. He's dead, Jim

[dionysus]

248. it *was* an idiot repuke...

[dionysus]

247. freeper says what?

[olegramps]

292. Please crawl back to the Freeper Boards Troll.

[JerseygirlCT]

348. In a perfect world

parents would parent so that children always trusted them.

It isn't a perfect world.

And you're basically asking the daughter to suffer for the sins of her mother or father.

If your children do trust you and do come to you, then you wouldn't find yourself in the situation of the OP, would you? They wouldn't need someone to take them to a clinic, b/c they would already have had a thorough and ongoing discussion of sex and pregnancy and contraception.

[BanzaiBonnie]

65. Or she may be afraid of her father...

[Name removed]

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[rainlillie]

202. Me too.

[uppityperson]

205. Thanks mods for the TS!

[Lisa D]

42. My niece has a genetic condition that makes her highly prone to blood clots

so taking any kind of hormone-based birth control is extremely dangerous for her. But guess what? She thinks she's invincible and that birth control won't hurt her. Do you think her parents want anyone taking her to get hormone-based birth control without their knowledge or consent? They believe in making birth control available for teens, but there ARE risks for some people.

[Name removed]

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[dsc]

164. what if, instead of this senario

it is an adult male who is sexually abusing her who takes her for bc. I think that this is a very problematic senario. I could see having a judical bypass option but to just have 14 year olds with no guidance from either her parents or a neutral decision maker being taken for bc or other medical proceedures is very dangerous.

[verdalaven]

218. Well

I grew up in a family where I would have been killed if my parents found out I was having sex. I was determined not to be that type of parent, and openness worked well for us. I gave my daughter the option for bp, and she took it when she was ready.

But that said -

What if the girl had some pre-existing condition, or family condition that makes it dangerous for her to take birth control? Not all families talk about their medical history - or maybe a 14 year old might not think it was a big deal that an Aunt or Sister had a history of blood clots while taking birth control. While there are some lame ass parents in this country, in general we are here to protect our kids. How can we do that if we aren't allowed to know what type of prescription meds they are on?

As long as a child is under the protection of a parent, and a parent is responsible for caring for them if they become ill, then a parent needs to know what their child is taking.

[uppityperson]

221. Legally, the minor has rights.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9418715&mesg_id=9418715

[cbdo2007]

266. Being 14 and pregnant isn't the most horrible thing that can happen to someone.

Plenty of pregnant 14 year olds turn out just fine and end up being great parents, and they usually learn a lot of valuable lessons along the way.

Life isn't about making sure no one ever makes mistakes. Life is about making mistakes and then learning how to deal with them yourself.

[uppityperson]

268. being 14, pg and dying of a back alley abortion is more horrible. I agree.

Life is also about trying to prevent bad things from happening. If a sexually active 14 yr old takes it upon herself to make sure she doesn't GET pregnant or an std, I'd say that's a pretty good thing.

[cbdo2007]

302. Well, or she could just have the baby and live happily ever after....

you know, the same thing that has been happening naturally for the past millions of years??

Strange that this is the last option you consider "reasonable".

I don't understand the people around here who treat pregnancy like a disease.

[uppityperson]

307. Or she could get that back alley abortion, or die from preg related health issues

Strange that you really want a teen to either seek a back alley abortion, or hide her pregnancy until it becomes very obvious. Strange that you feel having no prenatal care is good for either the woman or the child. Strange that you don't know that people die from pregnancy related issues "naturally" for the past millions of years.

I don't understand the people around here who treat pregnancy with such lightness.

[cbdo2007]

317. Or she could get hit by a meteorite or have the child stolen by aliens.

ha haha, this could go on all day the "what if" battle.

Fact of the matter is though that the great majority of 14 year olds who get pregnant DON'T die from pregnancy related issues and also the DON'T get back alley abortions. Most of them have the baby and take care of it like they're supposed to. It's nature's way. You can argue your "what ifs" with me all day but you can't argue with nature.

[uppityperson]

319. "it's natures way" for 14 yr olds to have babies. Have you ever had a tetanus vaccine?

[cbdo2007]

347. Of course I have. You think pregnancy is a disease?

[uppityperson]

350. You are willing to protect yourself but not allow adolescents to protect themselves

"of course" you have gotten tetanus vaccines since that protects you rather than agreeing that getting tetanus "It's nature's way."

You do not want adolescents to get care or prevent pregnancy or STDs because, after all "It's nature's way."

You also seem to not believe there could be any health issues with being pregnant.

Wow.

[olegramps]

293. Are you serious Daisy Mae?

[cbdo2007]

267. oops, dupe

[mzteris]

310. because with a psycho mom like that

imagine said 14 yr old telling her she's PREGNANT!

I shudder to imagine the consequences of THAT!

[FreeState]

11. What "medical procedure" was performed? n.t

[Mokoil]

22. clinic for a birth control shot.

and if your child has an allergic reaction?

They are giving shots to a child, that they have no clue about her medical history.

[bettyellen]

25. allergic reaction, what an ill informed post. quick- hide all the peanuts too!!!

[Name removed]

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[cynatnite]

27. She's old enough to know her medical history. n/t

[Mokoil]

34. and we all know

...a 14 year old doing something behind a parent's back would be totally honest about it.

[cynatnite]

39. A 14 year old is more likel,y to be honest about their health history to a medical professional...

than they would their sexual history to their parents.

[Mokoil]

43. When they want something bad enough

That goes out the window. You know that. Remember when you were 14? Kids are still the same, only a lot more savvy than we were.

[cynatnite]

54. This is different...not the same because of the risks...

Medical professionals will not just fork out birth control like candy. They have legal responsibilities when it comes to this sort of thing.

Oh, and I spent many years in the medical field, too. :)

[aquart]

255. No, when I was 14 I didn't routinely lie.

But then, I wasn't afraid to tell my mother the truth.

[olegramps]

294. It is apparent that your childhood wasn't too rosey and you still suffer from fear.

[riderinthestorm]

95. I have a feeling you aren't going to last at DU for very long but I'll take a stab at answering you

You have no idea of the situation of this girls life. She may be getting raped. She may be having unprotected sex with her father/brother/uncle/stepfather/mother's boyfriend/neighbor next door...

She may have gone to her mother to tell her of the abuse, and the mother didn't believe her.

You have no way of ASSuming this girl is sneaking around behind her mother's back or whether she is desperate to get some kind of help.

[Mokoil]

97. Is that all some of you people do?

Run around baiting?

How many times do you plan to post your rape theory?

[bettyellen]

101. ha ha , he's breaking DU rules because "we asked for it". AWESOME!!!

[Mokoil]

108. Baiting again?

Yes, you are

[bettyellen]

122. when you lose control, is it always someone else's fault?

[Name removed]

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[bettyellen]

127. shld i feel threatened now? what exactly are you implying, may I ask?

[tammywammy]

130. They've gone the way of the pizza. n/t

[bettyellen]

132. I wish some of the anti choice venom was deleted instead of the personal attacks. Yuk.

[Name removed]

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[bettyellen]

133. dupe.

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

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[riderinthestorm]

106. Snort! Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay. nt

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

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[cynatnite]

125. Sadly, it happens more than you know...

These kids need options. Why are you so against teenagers having the ability to protect themselves?

[ejpoeta]

19. i have an 11 year old and while i would rather she come to me if she were contemplating

such things, i would be glad she felt comfortable talking to someone with some knowledge about the subject. I believe knowledge is power and I would rather my kid was protected. and yes, i would look at myself and if I am being open enough for her to feel comfortable talking to me about it if she made that choice without me.

[mzteris]

311. but what if she doesn't?

What if she doesn't "feel comfortable" coming to you?

Should she have a choice? Some venue to seek medical care and advice?

Let's say your daughter is fine, but one of her friends has a screaming whack job ultra right wing fundie who will go apeshit ballistic if they even THINK their daughter is "having sex" (and let's say they're not 11 but 14) - and said daughter's friend came to you saying she was having sex and wanted birthcontrol but needed a ride to the clinic - would you take her?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[proud2BlibKansan]

46. Yet it is perfectly legal

I have a feeling that's a good thing for your daughter(s).

[Crunchy Frog]

48. And I suppose it's your job to raise your grandchild too, if it comes to that.

:shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

53. What if she got an STD and was afraid to tell you about it?

Should she be able to get confidential medical treatment or should she just go untreated because she doesn't want you to know?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

139. Aw, the new soldier of the Prude Posse died in his first skirmish? How sad.

Not.

[RollWithIt]

172. I 75% agree with you....

But 25% of me wants to make sure that girl doesn't get pregnant at 14.

[Moonbat2]

213. I am so glad your

post was the first one I saw.I agree 100%

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

225. You're fawning over a banned troll, did you know that?

Which you'll soon become too, I hope.

[uppityperson]

259. I doubt they know that. Too funny though.

[Ikonoklast]

315. Of course you do.

And you'll soon find out where that type of poster ends up.

[rainlillie]

235. Well said!!!

[uppityperson]

260. Did you know that poster has been banned? "well said!!" indeed and tata

[rainlillie]

290. Banned or not the point was valid IMO and I STILL agree.

[struggle4progress]

270. "State law allows health services for minors without parental consent"

[JTFrog]

288. At least you got some free pizza.

Jackass.

[olegramps]

291. Your reaction fully justifies the law to allow minors access to birth control.

[enlightenment]

2. Shouldn't she be more concerned that her 14-year old

is (presumably) either having or contemplating sex?

gah.

[mrcheerful]

68. What you didn't get the memo? Only bad girls have sex before marriage and get STD's

That was in all the sex ed text book in 1950, why good girls don't think about or enjoy sex, that is a male thing, good girls just pull their chasity belts to the side and lift their nighties high enough so the male can plant his seed. Remember the sex act must be done at night in a dark room so the hubby doesn't see the disgusting female body unclothed.

Yeah the good old days. Oh and btw if the wife did reap a harvest from the planting, hubby is expected to wait out in the fathers waiting room because only trained doctors can handle the sight of child birth, after all seeing little Johnnies head pop out of the wifes VJ would turn daddy into a flaming homosexual. But remember good girls always wait because they know if mum and dad find out their good little girl wasn't, her life would be pure hell until she was married off to the first man who would want the disgusting slut. Which made it ok for hubby to beat the fear of god into the disgusting slut, punishment for being sexually active before marriage.

[enlightenment]

200. I have no idea where that came from - but

it's a nice little rant.

If you think it's okay for a 14 year old to have sex, that's your business. I don't think a 14 year old is mature enough to handle the emotional ramifications . . . that said, I'm glad she wanted, or was encouraged to get, birth control. It was probably not a good idea for the group to take her from school to get the shot, but I still think it's a less important issue than the fact that she is - or contemplating - having sex. I repeat, if her mother wants to be upset about something, that's the more important issue.

[Posteritatis]

88. 14-year-olds contemplating sex? Say it ain't so. (nt)

[mrcheerful]

216. Mean while there are a few hundred 11 and 12 year olds giving birth because their parents thought th

they were to young to be thinking about sex. Which was exactly what my rant was about, the stupidity of people thinking sexual activity is determined by a persons age, I guess they forgot that little Johny and Suzie took off someplace quiet where there weren't no grown ups to catch them playing "doctor" at the ripe old age of 7 or 8. Just because you think something doesn't mean the world works that way. The more taboo a thing is the more attractive it becomes to those that hear rumors of the taboo. Sorry but after over 2000 years of trying to control and stop sex, no one has done either.

[Barack_America]

3. Her mother has reason to be upset.

It's one thing to provide information, but another to provide transportation.

[thunder rising]

24. Right because it's everybody elses fault that a parent fails.

[bettyellen]

28. exactly, the ones who are opposed are exactly the ones who's kids need this most.

[Barack_America]

40. The article says she's upset the daughter was DRIVEN to get it...

...not upset that she got it.

We know nothing of the relationship the mother has with her daughter.

[bettyellen]

63. that was probably the only way to do this discreetly, the shot and not using the family doc, CHOICES

that seem very consistant with a young woman's need for privacy. many of us have been there, and see she was doing what she thought was smart and very much needed.

[Barack_America]

72. She went on a whim with her friends because she heard the shot stops your periods.

Her mother had previously encouraged her to begin birth control. The daughter was not currently sexually active.

What she did was neither informed nor very much needed.

And the group uses a combination of bus vouchers and transportation, the former being vastly more appropriate, in my opinion.

[bettyellen]

77. well, that;s probably a much less common scenario. but she wanted privacy ....

and got it, and i have a problem with people here denying her that right to access. i don't buy at all this is about a car or van vs a bus. sorry.
it's about who should "control" the kid v who should be there to present her with legal options.

[tammywammy]

79. Where did you get that information?

It was not in the article posted by the Post & Courier. The teen said she had had sex.

"She asked her daughter whether she was sexually active, and the Burke High School freshman surprised her with the news that she had sex once."

I don't see a mention that the mother previously encouraged her daughter to get on birth control.

[Barack_America]

104. From the article you posted.

:shrug:

"She asked her daughter whether she was sexually active, and the Burke High School freshman surprised her with the news that she had sex once. After a few minutes of silence, the mother told her daughter that she wanted to call the family doctor and arrange for her to go on birth control."

[tammywammy]

110. That was after the fact, not "previously encouraged". n/t

[bettyellen]

161. #crickets#

[riderinthestorm]

123. Hate to be the cynic, but why do you trust the mother's version of events?

When it comes to birth control and teens having sex, parents frequently lie. They don't want to believe the truth, hear the truth, or even process the truth.

My oldest sister told my mom she was getting abused. My own mother refused to believe her. My oldest sister left for college and the abuse continued for 18 more months with my next sister until she suffered a nervous breakdown when she became pregnant (severe anorexia, almost died. Dropped to 80 lbs! Of course she miscarried.)

This heartbreaking story occurred in a wealthy upper class town, with enormously successful, social parents. My mother just didn't want her own gravy train to be disrupted and chose to willfully NOT believe, for a year and a half!

And NOW, my mother has re-written history and made herself the heroine who dismantled her whole life when she heard the accusation the first time. She thoroughly believes it now since she put the denial mechanisms in place almost as soon as her life started to fall to pieces.

Sorry but I dont trust any parents when it comes to the tales they WANT to believe about their own parenting performance, sex and their teens.

[bettyellen]

131. and I don;t think it matters one whit, anyone who has a problem with this is now

admitting they do not belive could or should have made the choices and decisions here. for a while they pretended to be anti the transportation, but now they've revealed themslees to be anti choice in this matter. Very very sad to see this tolerated here.

[olegramps]

296. You are making stuff up that is not in the article.

[Dappleganger]

81. that mother should be asking herself how she failed

to develop enough trust to have her daughter feel the need to keep it from her. She was probably very authoritarian and the daughter didn't want to disappoint her.

[Barack_America]

92. Apparently she failed because the daughter wasn't interested in birth control...

...as much as she was interested in stopping her periods.

That's what the article alludes to, though I dislike to assume the daughter's motivations for getting the shot and reasons for not immediately telling her mother.

[bettyellen]

109. explain again how you are not objecting to this gal exercising her right to self- determination +

privacy? because that;s waht im seeing, the bus ride looks like a starwman to me, because you admittedly have more issues with this.

[bettyellen]

135. *crickets*

[Barack_America]

150. You really need to simmer down. What if the girl had been transported by an adult man?

Would you have any objections to that?

Or would you be okay with a 14 year-old girl climbing into a, say, 30 year-old man's car and being driven away from school?

If not, where do you draw the line?

Is 14 and older okay? Or what about sexually active 11 year olds? Only transported by females or is transportation by males okay too?

I'm hoping that your obvious lack of understanding of the potential for abuse and sexual abuse here means you've never had experienced it. But for those of us who have, there's a lot about this arrangement that makes one worry.

And that's the last I'll say about this.

[bettyellen]

167. you;ve spent more time with moot hypothticals in an effort to deflect that you do not, have not

shown one bit of acknowledgement respect or support for this young woman;s choice.

brother that says more about where your head is at than any of this irrelevant baptism /stranger danger/ cars are worse than busses nonsense does, sorry. im not buying this one either.
whether you like it or not, her right to choce and privacy here is paramount, how many ways can we say that?

and you need to stop telling me how to behave, this is civil discourse, and that;s out of line.

[Barack_America]

170. Then it's best we ignore each other.

[bettyellen]

173. you make your own choices, and keep your amusing little suggestions to yourself please.

see how that works?

[Barack_America]

36. What evidence do you have that the parent failed?

The issue that I have is not in the information or assistance, but in the transportation. That crosses a line, IMO.

[bettyellen]

44. transportation is often key to provide medical sevices- esp for someone who has no car/ license..its

very very possible that she needed the transportation to the clinic. contrary to popular belief, there are not free clinics all over the place. she probably wanted to be discreet, was afraid of being "found out" hence the shot, vs the pill.

[Barack_America]

51. What if the school Christian group drove her to be baptized...

...how would you feel about that?

Transporting other people's children away from school premises without parental crosses a line, period.

[uppityperson]

138. You are against a teen having a ride without parental permission? Ever?

What if a teen is visiting someone and they want to go to the store for snacks and the mom there can drive them there. Should all the teens call home to make sure the mom has permission?

No teen should ever get transportation without parental approval? What?

[olegramps]

295. It seems that the young girl wasn't able to approach her parents.

Its that a sad situation. Fortunately, most schools,over the objections of the Tea-baggers types, provide sex education that far too many parents are so hung up that they can't discuss the subject with their children. I will say this however. I don't think it was very smart to transport a minor in your car. The liability could be devastating. They should have provide funds for public transportation.

[kestrel91316]

4. Sadly, there is a large contingent in this country that would far prefer that

girls get pregnant at 14. It's easier to cement their god-ordained role as brood mares that way. Keeps them out of school, where they might get ungodly ideas about having a career.

[cyr330]

5. Would she prefer that her

daughter be 14-years-old and PREGNANT?

[regnaD kciN]

57. More likely...

...she believes that, if her daughter was denied the means to prevent getting pregnant, she'd keep her legs crossed and stay a virgin until her wedding night. :crazy: Which is just what I suspect those who bellow the loudest about their "parental rights" really want.

And, yes, I have a daughter on the cusp of teenagerhood. While I'd prefer she not become sexually-active until later on, if she chose otherwise, I'd want to make sure she was protected. And, if she didn't want to come to us out of (unjustified) fear that we'd freak out, and thus went out and obtained protection herself, I'd consider that a sign of clear thinking on her part.

[tammywammy]

75. By reading the full article (I provided a link below)

The mother doesn't appear upset with the birth control, just the fact that she was driven to the clinic.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Did the girl request the shot?

Or was she talked into it? The article doesn't say.

I approve of her getting birth control as long as it was her idea...

[FreeState]

14. It doent say "shot" either, unless Im missing it n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. I copied it from the article:

"South Carolina mother is upset her 14-year-old daughter was driven from school to a clinic for a birth control shot."

[FreeState]

62. THanks! Somehow I missed that on several readings... TGIF :) n/t

[Demoiselle]

29. Exactly, CP. (nt)

[tammywammy]

41. She requested it

"The daughter said she was in biology class when some of her friends started talking about birth control that prevented them from having a period or cramps for three months. They told her to talk to Natalia Cales, one of the founders of Carolina Empowerment Group, to get it.

She said she told Cales she wanted the birth control, and Cales set up an appointment and took her and two other students in her car after school to a clinic on Johns Island."

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

[CaliforniaPeggy]

49. Now, this is really good.

Teenagers need to be proactive about their sexual lifestyles, and this young woman has done well.

I feel sorry for her mother, but ultimately the choice is the girl's.

[bettyellen]

142. good for her. whatever her reasons, good for her for taking care of herself.

[The Straight Story]

7. If they drove her to get smokes people would be up in arms

:evilgrin:

[ejpoeta]

13. how are cigarettes the same as birth contol?

[The Straight Story]

35. The PRINCIPLE her body, her choice (nt)

[nosmokes]

16. Comparing cigarettes to birth control? That's pretty Fucked up.

One is a medical procedure, the other kills.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. Smokes don't keep you from getting pregnant.

[JI7]

8. why is she upset, does she think her daughter would not have sex without

birth control ?

[tammywammy]

12. Not that I think 14 year olds should be having sex, at least she was smart enough to get bc

The mom should be upset with herself for having an environment where her daughter wasn't comfortable enough to discuss it with her.

[Rochester]

20. I approve of it, because...

...I consider it a fundamental human right not only to access birth control, but to do so without the possibility of repercussions of any kind from anyone, even a parent. Sadly, it may be the case that the only way a teenage girl can be certain the only way to obtain BC while protecting herself against parents outraged that she has got it or thinks she might need it, is to get it without them knowing about it, so this should always be possible. (Same goes for boys, they should have access to condoms and be able to hide it from their parents if they deem it prudent.)

[bettyellen]

31. yep, Im sure she chose the shot so she could keep it private from the parents

[Barack_America]

58. And you would be incorrect.

Her mother supported her being on birth control.

Link to the full article:
http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

[bettyellen]

82. and that matters how? the mom should have forced her on the pill early? chose her doctor?

what part of this kids choices so offends you that you advocate for all kids to loose their ability for choice, and self determination?
so what if this was a fluke- the services are legal in that state, and there for damned good reasons. all kids shouldn;t be punished because one nutbag mom is upset her kid didn;t take the pill earlier. as was her preference. that;s messed up. her mom's interest likely felt intrusvem and she wanted her to f'off and do what she herself needed to do, when she needed to do it.
but you don;t approve of the school working with this group at all, do you?

[Barack_America]

86. You're really running circles around yourself.

I disapprove with groups transporting children off of school premises without parental permission. This is what, the 10th time I've told you this?

I think it's great there are groups to help kids get access to birth control, they just have no business personally transporting them to clinics.

As for thinking the mom is a nutbag, I again ask you what you would think if a school group drove your child to be baptized in their church?

[bettyellen]

90. that would be illegal for a public school to do, this wasn't, but you knew that.

[tammywammy]

32. Link to full article from Post & Courier

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

A Charleston County mother and her 14-year-old daughter were spending some quality time together one Sunday evening when the conversation turned to sex.

She asked her daughter whether she was sexually active, and the Burke High School freshman surprised her with the news that she had sex once. After a few minutes of silence, the mother told her daughter that she wanted to call the family doctor and arrange for her to go on birth control.

This time, her daughter's response came as an even bigger surprise: a woman at school had taken her to a clinic for a shot that would provide birth control for three months.

The mother, whose name is being withheld to protect her daughter's identity, said she hadn't been informed.

"It floored me," the mother said. "Flabbergasted. Outraged."

-snip-

[petronius]

47. From that article, I think the mom had a valid reason to be angry

A child's health - sexual or otherwise - is very much a parent's business, and the school has an obligation to not undermine or circumvent that. There are circumstances where procedures of various types should be done without the parent's awareness or consent (e.g. where the child would be endangered), but there's no indication that this was one of those times...

[tammywammy]

50. The law allows the teen to get birth control

The teen requested it and was given transportation.

The school had no part of this, it was between Carolina Empowerment Group and the teen.

[petronius]

56. An organization with an office in the school, and given official access to students

during school? That claimed separation is too slick for me to swallow at face value.

It sounds as though though the school policy or agreement between CEG was that things like this wouldn't happen; even so, the responsibility lies with the school to maintain oversight...

[tammywammy]

60. Ahh, but once the teen enters into the office to request such things

They have a right to privacy. If the group had given her bus tickets, would that be okay? If the clinic inside the school helps set up appointments for the teens, they have the right to privacy and divulging any information on it could be a violation of HIPPA.


edited to add:
"He didn't see any legal issue because the birth control services are permitted by law and the district's policy didn't prohibit this situation explicitly. The nonprofit still will be permitted to operate in the school and provide students with information."

[petronius]

64. The district also told the group to stop the practice of providing transportation,

didn't they? So they obviously agree that it was inappropriate...

[tammywammy]

66. The group will probably just hand out the bus vouchers instead of using their own vehicles. n/t

[petronius]

69. Doesn't the article say that they'd been doing that already, too? (I don't

feel like opening it again to check). I assumed that that practice fell under the new prohibition as well...

[tammywammy]

73. The article isn't specific on what is or isn't allowed

It's mentioned briefly that the ride or bus vouchers aren't out of the ordinary, but the mother is specifically upset with the personal transportation of her daughter. The article only discusses the personal transportation of the student and the ramifications of a school district employee doing the same.

The article isn't specific so that bus vouchers could still be provided for all we know.

[bettyellen]

70. wow,so you want them to tell her about options but it;s okay w/ you if she can't get help in order

to actually use them? she wasn;t actually going to ask her parents fro a ride then was she? or her gossipy friends? they are doing this for a good reason, the support is needed.

[Barack_America]

74. You should probably read the full article.

This was not a case of the parents refusing to take her for birth control evaluation.

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

[bettyellen]

80. so this isn;t about the most common way young girls need to handle this kind of thing?

and that matters why exactly. parents wanted to control the how and when and that;s a good thing, or awfully misguided?

[bettyellen]

141. you should proabably admit you;d like to severely limit this gal's options.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. How did the school undermine the parent's business?

[petronius]

59. The school put CEG and the students together.

[bettyellen]

71. ah, you want the law changed so she can;t have access to birth control, got it.

[Barack_America]

76. Her mother wanted her to begin birth control!

Just not to be driven to a clinic by someone she didn't know to get it.

[bettyellen]

78. her Mom wanted to control the exact scenario. as do you. Am I missing anything here?

[Barack_America]

83. Lol. Actually you're inserting things.

Where does it say the mother wanted to "control the exact scenario" as you insist?

"She asked her daughter whether she was sexually active, and the Burke High School freshman surprised her with the news that she had sex once. After a few minutes of silence, the mother told her daughter that she wanted to call the family doctor and arrange for her to go on birth control."

I don't see anything there about the mother demanding the daughter go on the pill vs. shot, etc.

"If I weren't close to my child, I would've never known (about this)," the mother said. "If I weren't a mom who takes time to talk to her daughter, I wouldn't know anything. I just don't understand how this happens without anyone finding anything wrong with this."

Gosh, she sounds like a horrible mother.

As for me, as I've told you time and time again, it's not the birth control that bothers me, it's the transporting of other people's kids off school grounds without permission. That goes for transportation to birth control clinics, transportation to churches for baptisms, etc.

[bettyellen]

85. the mom wanted to (early or late) do the same thing as the clinic did, but it looks as if

she wanted to be the one to do it. was insulted the kid chose to do this privately- or without involving her.
the kid chose to do it more privately, and that should be recognised as a common and reasonable need for young women.
as far as transportation, many many women in this country don;t get affordable healthcare because they cannot get to it. easy for me as a NYer to suggest everyone hop on a train or a bus, but it;s not always feasable. do you mind clarifying what the objection is to the transport part? because i would have killed to get transport for my disabled mom so she could take advantage to some great services fro senior citizens, it just wasn;t feasble with her location. would have spent 3 hours a day on the bus, and this is in NYC.

[bettyellen]

87. and that's a legal smart healthy and progressive thing to do!

[Barack_America]

67. I agree.

I don't know about you, but it's the physical transportation of the child to the clinic that bothers me. As the mother said, "what if there had been an accident?" Making the appointments is fine, as is providing the bus vouchers. But personally transporting the girls crosses a line.

[bettyellen]

93. nonsesnse, buses have accidents too! so what;s a control freak to do?

what;s the next strawman they pull out of their ass just so they get to feel they are calling the shots? how do they fuck things up for all teen girls, just so they can maintain a sense of self righteousness? nonsense.

[uppityperson]

129. I think you are saying no one should ever take a teen in their car without parental permission

"it's the physical transportation of the child to the clinic that bothers me."

No teen should ever ride in any car with anyone without their parent's express permission?

[Barack_America]

143. Not away from school campuses with someone affiliated with the school, no.

Not by teachers, non-profit groups, etc. I wouldn't even want to hear that my kid went off campus for a class field trip without my permission. But being taken away individually or a small group by an adult I don't know and in their own personal automobile? Especially hell to the no. If the school allowed someone affiliated with them to do this, they'd would hear from me. If another child's parent did this, I would certainly talk to them about that as well. A teen riding in another teen's car? Well, it would make me nervous, but that's something I would have to talk with my kid about.

[uppityperson]

147. thanks for clarifying NO to in a car by an adult you don't know.

No teen should ever be driven in a private auto with an adult you don't know.

At least you seem to have no problem with teen's right to privacy regarding reproductive/std care.

Edited as I was wrong about school affiliation. Seems they have an office in the school but are not employed by the school.

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

[woo me with science]

175. I agree with everything you've written.

Your words are being misconstrued and misrepresented by some here, but you are making very sound arguments.

I would be angry, too.

[bettyellen]

148. magically busses and trains are always safer.

[petronius]

186. That's part of it, but I also think that a child's health - sexual and otherwise - is something that

a parent should be expected to be involved with, and should expect to be involved with. A school has an obligation to the extent possible to facilitate that involvement. There's nothing special about sexual health, whether it's contraception or abortion, that requires an automatic sidestepping of the parent. A child may not be comfortable talking to a parent, but not all of life is comfortable, and the school should be encouraging that conversation as much as feasible. There are situations where talking to the parent is unwise or dangerous, but that should not be presumed to be the default position (and it certainly seems that it was not the case here).

In this story, the school created a situation where a child was able to make significant decisions without including her mother, and it doesn't seem there was a necessity for that exclusion. So, I think the mom has a reason to be pissed. (Note: "reason to be pissed" is not synonymous with 'grounds for a lawsuit' or 'grounds for a criminal complaint.')

[emilyg]

113. I'd be mad as all hell.

[Barack_America]

120. Apparently that makes you "anti-birth control".

So be careful admitting to that.

Personally, I agree. I wouldn't want people transporting my kids away from school campus without my permission whether it's for birth control or ice cream. It crosses a line.

[uppityperson]

151. "Although the incident happened after school and didn't involve school staff..."

[MadMaddie]

98. Maybe Mom should talk to her daughter about sexual activity

maybe Mom should stop pretending that young teens may be sexually active.

The school was wrong it wasn't their decision.

[Barack_America]

102. There's more to the story. See post #33.

[bettyellen]

137. isn't your point a little moot unless you object to this girl making her own decisons?

[Barack_America]

145. My point that there is a longer article linked in another post?

[bettyellen]

153. the point is you're argung against the girl making her own choices for self determination, whatever

the timeline you keep pulling out is, the mother was okay w. using bc before or after the girl chose it for herself. that;s what;s moot, what the mom wanted was moot as far as bc goes.
the girl is the person who gets to make the choice in this, not you or the mom or the nurse, you keep wanting it to be otherwise, and wonder why that;s not okay with women here.
bus rides, pills vs shots, all irreleveant, you wanted this gal not to be able to get, to CHOOSE HERSELF what she needed, it;s just not something you value, and that;s clear when you focus on thr car ride vs bus ride or pills vs shot. that;s all smoke and mirrors if you do not support this kid;s choices, and you;re not only doing that, youre pretending she didn;t make her own decisons, that the clinic somehow did that for her.

[Barack_America]

159. Actually, I never argued that and you know it.

I argued that the school shouldn't allow individuals to transport students in their private automobiles without parental consent. And that's all I've argued.

[uppityperson]

166. Although the incident happened after school and didn't involve school staff..."

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch10/1010/arc102810831219.shtml

[bettyellen]

174. you did repeatedly point ot her mother's offer of a "choice" as somehow inherently better, yes...

you also danced aroufd with the notion that her choice of clinic and transportation were not her own personal picks. guess what, they were all her decisons. even though they may not have offered a wide array of clinics to pick from, she went and did what she wanted and needed to do. she got bc and had sex in the correct sequence without help from you her mom, or the non exisiting family clinic at her school. wishing things were different in so many ways is cute when it doesn;t ruin people's lives. here, in this case, it;s messed up.
the kid needed to do it a certain way, and the boogie man didn;t get her. Nor was she baptised. that is the way the real world most often works.

[shimmergal]

269. Wrong.

The choice of shot vs. pill or whatever is NOT only the girl's choice, or at least it shouldn't be. All prescription contraceptive methods carry some risk of bad reactions or side effects. So the ultimate choice is up to the doctor or nurse practitioner providing the bc. She/he can weigh factors like drug or device characteristics, the girl's age and situation etc. along with her preferences.

Just because the girl thought it would be cool not to have to bother with periods might not be a very good basis for choosing. OTH, there are a lot of very compelling even if non-medical reasons a shot might be the best for a young woman in particular circumstances.

As for the "being driven" aspect. Sure, it happens every day (teens being driven somewhere without their parent's permission.) But just think. If the driver had an accident on the way to the clinic and the girl was severely injured, the woman who drove her would be in a LOT of legal jeopardy. Most parents would be furious. It's not just smoke and mirrors.

[uppityperson]

144. THIS post 33?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9416957&mesg_id=9417156

[Barack_America]

146. Yeah, there's been some deletion of posts.

Post #33 is currently #32.

[uppityperson]

149. "Although the incident happened after school and didn't involve school staff..."

"Although the incident happened after school and didn't involve school staff, the nonprofit's agreement with the district obligates it to follow its rules. "

thanks for this link http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9416957&mesg_id=9417147

[MadMaddie]

207. Yep

Saw it, well at least the mom is paying attention and talking to the daughter now.

[Iggo]

152. Tough shit, mom.

Old enough to breed? Old enough for birth control.

[TheKentuckian]

156. It's 100% the young lady's call. Be nice for the parents to be involved but not a prerequisite.

Parents may act on their desires rather than what is best for their children in these situations.

[lynne]

176. 14? Don't blame her for being upset. I would be, too.

I would not want anyone giving my 14 year old daughter any drugs or medication without my knowledge. Its reckless. The parents are still solely responsible for the child's well-being and not knowing what drugs the child is taking in the event of another medical emergency could have severe consequences.

If the state wants to give my child drugs and medications without my knowledge and permission at age 14 then the state needs to also assume responsibility for all other actions my child may undertake and take the parents off the hook entirely. You can't pick and choose.

[tammywammy]

194. The state didn't do anything.

The teen chose to get birth control, which is her right. The state wasn't involved in this at all, except to recognize the fact that teens have a the right to access bc.

[Freetradesucks]

177. The parents of a 14 year old should be notified

before she is given a fucking abortion!! Come on people, this is just fucking disgusting! The State can abort your child's fetus without your knowledge, and you are OK with that? Are YOU FUCKING INSANE? What if the state is super right wing christofacist and they start aborting black, latino, and jewish babies of underage girls, WITHOUT EVER EVEN CONTACTING THE PARENTS?????????????

I feel like I'm going to throw up reading some of the responses here.....

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

[uppityperson]

179. Maybe because the law says a teen has right to privacy regarding such decisions except for some

really backwards areas. Try googling: minors' right to medical privacy.

WTF is your abortion rant about anyway? "What if the state is super right wing christofacist and they start aborting black, latino, and jewish babies of underage girls, WITHOUT EVER EVEN CONTACTING THE PARENTS?"

Good grief

[Freetradesucks]

180. Do you have any children?

I would suspect not.

Tell the truth, do you?

[uppityperson]

183. No matter what I say, you will accuse me of lying. Here is a link for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9418715&mesg_id=9418715

[ScreamingMeemie]

184. I do. You can run a search. I used to talk about them all the time here.

I think the issue of disagreement lies in the fact that most of us here have open dialogues with our children and could not imagine, nor handle, someone taking our children in for birth control without us.

Now...my parents (Mom mostly) would never have allowed me to be on birth control, would have killed me if I got an abortion, and just about did kill me when I ended up pregnant at 19. I am saying maybe this child was frightened of her parents (some have very good reason to be) because they aren't like you and I.

[Posteritatis]

193. Would the law be different depending on whether she does or doesn't? (nt)

[tammywammy]

181. 1. The State wasn't involved in this at all

2. What abortion?
3. Do you think birth control is a form of abortion?
4. In South Carolina (where this happened) if you're under 17 you cannot get an abortion without parental notification, though you can bypass parents if you go through a judge.

[uppityperson]

185. What "fucking abortion" are you talking about? NO abortion was given

Throw up if you want but good lord, at least figure out what the topic is about.

[Freetradesucks]

214. OK, need to work on reading the entire article,

but still. Why does a public school need to be giving a child a "birth control shot" without the parents knowledge? So she can go fuck without worrying about getting pregnant? Sorry, but that's just wrong.

And if it was an abortion, and not a "birth control shot" I'm sure there would be no difference to a lot of you.

[uppityperson]

223. Read the article and go to this link also. The school didn't give her a shot

And legally, yes, she does have rights regarding contraceptives, std checks/treatments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9418715&mesg_id=9418715

As far as "giving a child a "birth control shot" without the parents knowledge? So she can go fuck without worrying about getting pregnant?", what would you prefer? Let her fuck and get pregnant? Yeah, that's the ticket! If she's going to fuck (except for those who don't) they sure as shit deserve to get pregnant.

I truly wonder why you are here on DU.

[Freetradesucks]

226. No,

I would prefer that a 14 year old isn't fucking at all. If that notion, thought and idea is somehow strange to DU members than I definitely should not be posting here.

[riderinthestorm]

227. But 14 year olds fuck, and get fucked.

Willingly and unwillingly.

Is it better they become pregnant, or not?

You and I can agree that 14 year old children fucking isn't a good idea but facts remain that children this age are having sex, willingly or by force.

They need birth control.

[Freetradesucks]

229. It still needs to be run by the parents at that age.

I mean come on, really?

Why should the parents be responsible for anything then?

[riderinthestorm]

230. The school is not involved. This is a private agency.

And this sexually active girl has cut her parents out for one reason or another.

As far as birth control goes, the girl is taking pro-active steps to protect herself. Boys just pick up condoms and nobody screams bloody murder about them. Parents are NOT in control of that situation - ever. So it behooves parents for whom their children have cut them out of that equation, to help their children STAY SAFE! This mother is now making her child feel guilty (and the agency who helped the girl) for being pro-active in being safe.

When it comes to teen sex, NOTHING is ever "run by" the parents. You may have had that kind of relationship with your parents but trust me, the vast majority do not.

[olegramps]

299. The problem is so many parents are not responsible.

How many parents obtain sex education information for their children and make absolute certain that they understand it. The fact is that most parents never discuss it any detail and rely on the school to do their job. Hell, they don't even know what has been taught at school. There are numerous studies that confirm these facts.

[rainlillie]

312. Exactly!

[uppityperson]

257. Most of us agree with preferring 14 yr olds "isn't fucking" but most of us also agree if they are,

they should be taking precautions to keep from getting pregnant and from catching sexually transmitted diseases.

I guess you are different and yes, this may not be the place for you if you truly believe 14 yr olds should not have protection.

[uppityperson]

224. You are a firm believer in parental notification pre-abortion?

Thank you for making that clear to us.

[Freetradesucks]

228. Yes, I am.

If my daughter who is 14, whom I am am completely 100% responsible for in every aspect is going to be having sex, and the state run school is going to be giving her birth control so that she can have "safer sex" I WANT TO KNOW. If you don't get that than you are insane.

[riderinthestorm]

231. The school did not give her birth control!!

Did you not read the article??

[tammywammy]

232. No they obviously didn't read it.

Even after their abortion rant the poster has clearly not chosen to educate themselves by, I dunno, reading the damn article. It's much easier to rail against an imaginary abortion or what the school did than take the few minutes to read what happened.

[rainlillie]

239. ITA!

[uppityperson]

261. Since the other one you agreed with has been banned, let's see how your record will

stand by morning.

[uppityperson]

256. Those who follow the law are insane. Huh. The school didn't give her contraceptives.

Though there are contraceptives available in some schools, in this case it was not the school doing it. You obviously didn't read the article.

[rainlillie]

284. I agree.

[uppityperson]

309. You agree that the state run school should give contraceptives? They didnt.

[depakid]

191. I would toss your statement right back at you

WTF is wrong with you?

Do you have any clue about the abuse some kids are and would be subject to?

Or do you just not care?

[Posteritatis]

192. If I knew of a superlative for "hyperbole" I'd be using it here. (nt)

[olegramps]

297. Your post wins the ridiculous award of the day.

What state is forcing children to have abortions? The state laws say the young girl has a right to seek an abortion regardless of the parents desires.

[rainlillie]

316. I couldn't agree more. Well said.

[Skip Intro]

182. The mother should be pissed. If the girl were my daughter, I'd sue. Keep your damn hands off my kids

This crosses a line, big time.

[depakid]

190. At some point, you have to let kids make their own decisions

and this is one area where a teen's rights trump parental rights.

[rainlillie]

243. I agree.

[uppityperson]

262. You would "sue" even though it was legal? What if kid took bus, got it on her own?

The kid here made the decision. WTF is the "keep your damn hands off my kids"? What if the kid had taken a bus on her own? I guess that would be ok with you then?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9418715&mesg_id=9418715

[Skip Intro]

282. Absolutely. nt

[saras]

188. Why so many teabaggers?

Why are there so many teabaggers on this thread, and not all over DU?

If your 14-year-old daughter asks to go to a birth control clinic without telling you, you have ALREADY failed so thoroughly as parents that you don't have any more right to a voice in her life that she doesn't voluntarily give you, no matter how smart or dumb YOU think she is. She is telling you, in no uncertain terms, that as far as real life is concerned, she is already on her own, and that you no longer have any useful support to offer her.

So just man up and accept it, and pay her bills until she's 18. And leave her alone to choose a better quality of role model.

[Skip Intro]

189. And everyone who disagrees with you is a teabagger? "Man up" - ?! Really? nt

[saras]

195. Oops.

Sorry. Here you go

:sarcasm:

And yes, I think that anyone who still believes in the 21st century that they "own" their children, even after their children indicate that they are not trustworthy parents, are pretty close to the fundamental values of the teabaggers i.e. "wrong is right", "stupid is good", and "I deserve power, you don't"

[bettyellen]

321. well T Baggers DO want to deny healthcare to the weak among us, saying families taking care of their

own is the ideal. and screw anyone in need. unfortunately, T- Baggers aren't the only ones who espouse this philosophy here.
many on this thread think the law is about their own kid and themselves, period, and ignore all calls to recognise the reasons for this law.
Im sad to see it.

[shimmergal]

272. Wrong.

There's often a natural reticence between parents and children when it comes to talking about THEIR OWN sexual life and experiences. The mother hasn't necessarily failed as a parent; the daughter may just have a healthy sense of interpersonal boundaries. I'm not talking about a girl who's terrified for her parents to know she's had sex. Just one who thinks it's her own personal business (and what's more natural than a 14-year-old feeling this way?)

The one thing I find missing in this discussion is any consideration of what "privacy" about sex means to a teenage girl. Once you talk to a counselor and/or a medical "provider" you've already given up some of your privacy in this area. And some girls don't want to do that.

We just don't see it because for the past 30-40 years we've been propagandized that THE ONLY way to prevent unwanted pregnancy is to go to a doctor for b.c. Boys don't have this problem; they can keep their sex life (if any) to themselves because they can buy condoms. But female OTC birth control methods have been ignored, minimized, and are now much harder to find than they were back in the supposedly benighted fifties or sixties. Why???

I can't quite avoid the suspicion that it's because we still have a subconscious feeling that
SOMEONE ought to be monitoring an unmarried female's sex life. If not a parent, then at least a doctor or nurse. I've got nothing against medical personnel, but for other reasons I wouldn't always rely on them to make the best decisions about my reproductive life. For one thing, no one ever hesitated to prescribe the pill for me even knowing I was over 35 and a smoker, whose mother in fact had had problems with blood clots. I had to figure this out for myself. Thank goddess I'd grown up knowing about OTC birth control methods.

[rainlillie]

201. My daughter can't even leave the grounds of school without my permission..

I'd be pissed beyond belief if she received a birth control shot, without mine or my hubby's permission.

[olegramps]

300. What would your be your reaction if she asked you for birth control?

[rainlillie]

203. First of all health history should be considered.

What if the child had an allergic reaction to the shot. Also what about STD'S and aids, a shot can't prevent that. It should be against the law to give a minor medication without parental permission.

[uppityperson]

204. According to NY state law, minors CAN get some health care things without parental permission.

Here is link to thing I posted yesterday on this. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9418715&mesg_id=9418715

According to NY state law, and that is the state your profile says you are in, she is legally allowed contraceptive, sti, and prenatal care without any notice or permission to a parent.

[rainlillie]

206. t I think that's awful. My underage child can't even

go on a field trip without my permission or leave the schools campus.

[tammywammy]

208. But she can have sex without your permission

You should work to have a good relationship with your child to so that she will feel comfortable coming to you when she's ready for bc.

The reality is there are a LOT of families out there that a conversation like that cannot happen, these laws are to help THOSE teens.

[Warren DeMontague]

209. When I was in high school, NO one was having sex at age 15 or 16!

Except me. And half the people I knew.

[tammywammy]

210. If those damn sluts would just keep their legs closed

Or maybe we should encourage more abstinence, that would SURELY work.

This thread (not you) = :eyes:

BTW, I was 18 and I went to my mom before I got on bc (or had sex). We had a good enough relationship that I felt comfortable going to her. I knew a lot of girls that weren't.

[Warren DeMontague]

211. Exactly. In an ideal world, all families would have good and open communication

but we don't have an ideal world, and that's why we have teens able to access contraception under confidential circumstances. Which is as it should be.

[rainlillie]

233. I have a good relationship with my both my children, we talk about everything all the time..

I'm pro-choice and I don't want the government involved in mine or my underage daughter decisions when it comes to birth control or abortion.

[tammywammy]

237. Then if you have a good relationship, this the fact teens have access to bc shouldn't be a concern

These laws are to protect those teens that cannot go to their families for these types of issues.

[rainlillie]

238. I don't drink, but drinking and driving concerns me...

My hubby doesn't beat me, but guess what... I;m concerned about women who are abused by their hubby's.

[tammywammy]

240. Then you should also be concerned for teen girls

that are raped, victims of incest, victims of their mother's boyfriends, are raised in super strict religious households, etc because those are all the types of girls that may not be able to tell their parents about needing birth control. Or how about just the teen with parents that don't have time to talk with their daughters about bc.

Drunk driving and domestic abuse are crimes, teens with access to bc isn't.

[rainlillie]

242. Sure am, which is why I said unless it's proven that the child is being abused

or in danger the parents should be notified.

[tammywammy]

244. Do you realize how many women don't report rapes?

Yet you expect these teens girls, obviously not from open commutative homes to report the incest/rape/uncaring mother/father before they have access to bc?

How about condoms for boys? Do you hold them to the same standard?

Maybe we should teach more abstinence, I'm sure that will help curb teen pregnancy.

[rainlillie]

245. I would expect people to look into the child's background and see if there were signs of abuse or

trauma and go from there. Yes I would like to know if the school is provinding my underage son with condoms.

[tammywammy]

249. But what if it's not the school

It wasn't the school providing birth control, no school employees were involved at all, nor were any school funds.

What if it's just a teen from a religiously strict family?

[olegramps]

301. I bet you have open discussions. You sound very dictatorial to me.

[Lars39]

250. black and white thinking

Some things can't ever be proven....meanwhile a teen is put at risk by an unnecessary pregnancy.

[uppityperson]

263. You don't want the gvt involved? You don't it made legal for your minor to make her own decisions?

I guess that means you DO want the gvt involved, to make it so she cannot make her own decisions when it comes to birth control, sexually transmitted disease control/treatment, or abortions.

You want the gvt involved indeed. You want it mandated that YOU get to chose, not her.

[rainlillie]

279. Umm yeah it's called being a parent. we make choices for our underage children every day until they

are of age.

[bettyellen]

337. you put field trips on the same level as getting proper health care- that;s your standards?

again, god help these kids.

[Blue_In_AK]

212. My own daughter, when she was 16, took herself

to the clinic and got birth control pills, and then happily announced to me, "Mom, aren't you PROUD of me? I went to the clinic all by myself and got birth control." I didn't know quite what to say. Yes, I was proud of her for being responsible, but a bit chagrined at the admission that she was "doing it." Kids ... ya gotta love 'em. :)

[EFerrari]

258. Agreed. I bought boxes of condoms for my sons when they turned 15.

They were embarrassed as hell but they didn't die from it.

[U4ikLefty]

217. Funny, but I wonder if all this hand-wringing about "transport w/o permission"

or "allergic reactions" would be as intense if it was a young MALE getting condoms?

Because this is about the elephant in the room, the double standard of male vs female sexuality.

Sorry mom, she likes it too!!!

[riderinthestorm]

222. Absolutely. The hypocrisy on this thread is priceless. Great point. nt

[rainlillie]

236. I have both a daughter and a son and I feel the same.

[shimmergal]

273. Of course not, because

condoms ddon't present the same risk of allergies (or worse).

Sure, there's latex sensitivity, but that's likely to be obvious right away, not a ticking time bomb that can explode much later.

But a teenage son injured by riding with an "unauthorized" driver is going to cause just as much heartbreak as an injured teenage daughter.

Or do -- I'm serious here, because I only have daughters -- do parents of sons just brace themselve more for this possibility, since teenage boys are statistically riskier drivers? Somehow I don't think you can ever really be prepared for such an eventuality, though.

[U4ikLefty]

341. Are you even getting my point?

I am talking about the bullshit excuses that are made up to avoid the real issue.

This is about young women having the right to be sexual without thier parents strapping the proverbial "chastity belt".

[rainlillie]

234. I'm pro-choice and I don't want the government involved in mine or my underage daughters decisions

when it comes to birth control or abortion. As far as children being afraid to tell their parents, there are a lot of things children are afraid to tell their parents, that's no justification for the government stepping in IMO. Unless it can proven that the child is in danger or abused, parents should be notified.

[boppers]

251. The government didn't step in.

Her child sought out a non-governmental agency on her own. Obviously, since her parents didn't even know their own child was sexually active, they had already failed as parents, and their presence in the decision is useless or worse.

[shimmergal]

274. So ---

every parent who doesn't know when his/her child is sexually active is a failure?

You think teenagers are just itching to tell their parents "Hey mom, I finally got laid!" ?

What planet are you living on?

Lots of teens communicate as little as possible with their parents. And even that doesn't mean they have bad parents. More often than not, the kids grow out of it. Part of the task of the teen years is to separate their own identity from their parents'. It's surprising how many people (including a lot posting in this thread) don't seem to grasp that. And are hugely judgmental nevertheless.

[rainlillie]

277. The bottom line is if the child is underage parents

should have a right to know what kind of medications they are being injected with. What about side effects? Someone else mentioned the child's medical history.

[boppers]

281. So, I formulated a bunch of response thoughts....

1. Anti-Vaccination nuts are freaked out by needles.
2. Control parents are freaked out when children take self-control.
3. Yes, side effects should be watched out for, but if the child chooses it, is it still the parent's fault if the reaction (and the cause) is unknown by the parent?

(That's what I'm getting anyways, I'm guessing at what you mean by a child being an underage parent...?)

[rainlillie]

283. In other words you are assuming. You know what they say about folks who assume Here's a little story

for you to chew on. When I was in my 20's I used the pill for a few weeks and it made me extremely sick, I haven't used it since and would never ingest any type of birth control medication. My underage niece who happens to have a blood disorder had an abortion without the knowledge of her parents. A few days later she began to hemorrhage badly, the mother had not a clue as to what was going on , she was hospitalized for a few weeks and had to have tissue removed. So please spare me with your lame ass assumptions.

[boppers]

285. "the mother had not a clue"

No more needs be said.

[rainlillie]

287. Actually there's a lot to be said, if she didn't rush her daughter to the ER

she would have died. The doctor who performed the abortion didn't know about her medical condition. Down the road who knows if she'll even be able to have children because of all the scar tissue. I also think that secrecy only benefits an abuser.

[olegramps]

304. Sorry, but I am skeptical.

[rainlillie]

306. What happened to my niece should never happen to anyone.

[uppityperson]

318. Indeed, she should have been able to get contraception that worked

Kids who are unable to be tested/treated for stds can become sterile also and that is wrong. Glad to see that you understand the need for sexually active people to have access to birth control and std test/treatments.

[rainlillie]

320. Well...

If the doctor who performed the abortion had of known about her medical issues, he would have consider that beforehand. Curious, since we have 8 and 9 year-olds now going through puberty should they be provided with pills and shots? Without the parents knowledge?When my son was younger I told him I'd rather he waited until he was in a committed relationship and older before having sex. I also told him if he was going to do it, to use a condom every time. I talked to him about respecting young women and himself.

It seems people act as if kids don't have any self-control, like their animals or something. My son came to me when he thought he met the right girl and was ready to move the relationship to the next level. I wanted him to know that there are a lot of emotions involved and to be careful. I'll have the same talk with my daughter when she's older and I'll tell her how important condoms are, the pill won't prevent STD's HIV or Aids and it has side effects. My daughter isn't 14, but my friends daughter is and she can't even remember her homework, I doubt she'll remember to take a pill every day. I still stay that secrecy and keeping info from parents only benefit the abusers, if the child is being abused.

[bettyellen]

322. you think sexually active girls should rely on condoms because the're too dumb to take pills?

and you want kids to rely on your advice? god help them. sorry. condoms are not enough.

[rainlillie]

323. No I want MY kids to rely on my advice and condoms are a hell of a lot safer

than a pill.

[bettyellen]

326. condoms are a hell of a lot less effective, so thank god the rest of America;s kids

aren;t relying on YOU for medical advice.
this is why Im glad kids can get access to care and good professional advice. many can and do make smarter choices than parents would.

[rainlillie]

327. So the pill can stop the spread of HIV and Aids, which is far more dangerous

than an unwanted pregnancy? As long as my two children rely on myself and my hubby for advice that's all that matters.

[bettyellen]

336. responsible kids use backup protection since the condom rate of failure is so very high

i guess having only boys, you never stopped to think or learn about that. condoms are great- but not enough! educate yourself.

[uppityperson]

328. Shall we assume that you have taught them how to correctly put on a condom, including pinching the

tip to expel the air there and avoid the risk of breakage? And using a spermicidal foam or cream in conjunction? And how to hold the condom in place while he takes his penis out of her while his penis is still erect to avoid leakage of sperm?

I am sure you have demonstrated on something and had them demonstrate that they can do this properly. Good for you!

[rainlillie]

330. Not cool to assume. My husband did all of that with our son and when he started dating. and

when my daughter is older she and I will talk.

[uppityperson]

332. Somy assumption was right and that's "not cool"? Wow. Glad your husband could demonstrate proper

application, use and removal of condoms.

It isn't cool for me to assume you did what you did? You make my head spin.

[rainlillie]

333. This conversation is so over! Buh bye!

[uppityperson]

334. As I said, I assume, correctly you say, that you correctly showed condom use. Good for you.

I am glad you are able to do so as many parents are embarrassed. Good luck with the kids.

[uppityperson]

324. There are a lot of responsible kids out there who would avail themselves of contraception/std care

if available. I intend to keep working to make sure it stays available to them.

It is true that condoms will act of more of a barrier to stds that OCs will, but they still need to be able to get std tests/treatments in a timely manner without parental notification. Lack of parental notification, timely manner,accessiblity, these are the keys that get kids in for treatments.

Of course OCs have side effects. So does foam. So do some condoms. So does IUDs. They all have side effects. But not using contraception also does. Presenting kids with accurate information as to how different contraceptives work, how well they work, as well as how they work and how to use them, this is what we do when we counsel kids on reproductive choices.

Keeping info from abusive parents that a kid has gotten medical care only benefits the abuser? What about the kid? Perhaps you don't know about the mandatory reporting of child abuse?

[rainlillie]

325. So should 8 or 9 year old girls be able to get pills and shots too?

Condoms don't have half the risk as ingesting other medicines.

[uppityperson]

329. So should I be able to marry my dog if gays can get married too?

[rainlillie]

331. Whatever floats your boat.

[boppers]

280. By the numbers:

"every parent who doesn't know when his/her child is sexually active is a failure?"

Yes. If you're so disconnected from your kids that you don't know or can't tell (or be told), that's a huge problem.

"You think teenagers are just itching to tell their parents "Hey mom, I finally got laid!" ?"

Depends on the parent/child relationship, and the household attitudes about sex, and sexuality. If you've raised children to think sex is something you *don't* talk about, or even brag about, your children won't talk about it.

"What planet are you living on?"

The same one as you.... but what century are you living in?

"Lots of teens communicate as little as possible with their parents. And even that doesn't mean they have bad parents. More often than not, the kids grow out of it. Part of the task of the teen years is to separate their own identity from their parents'. It's surprising how many people (including a lot posting in this thread) don't seem to grasp that. And are hugely judgmental nevertheless."

I don't have children of my own yet, but I'm on no less than four parenting teams (more on that below).

With my god-daughter, at 14/15, we're already having frank and honest (and funny) discussions about the merits of different vibrators. On facebook, publicly, no less. She's a smart cookie.

With my nephew, he's still working out the mechanics of love, and is less interested in sex, than he is in dealing with the confusion of teenage love.

The others are too young for the subject to have come up, but it will, and I know I have to be honest, direct, and fully accurate with them, as a "trustworthy non-parent". If something important happens, I have to talk it out with the parents, without burning my links to either.

....Because, as you rightly note, teens separate themselves from direct, parental, contact, it's often up to the co-parenting community to help, and provide guidance to parents, and teens. If the parents don't know, or don't have, co-parents, they're going to be in the dark.

[uppityperson]

264. How did the gvt get involved? It didn't mandate you getting to make the decisions.

It is simply leaving the decision up to her. Leaving her the choice, not taking the choice away.

Otherwise, there was no "government stepping in".

[rainlillie]

276. Such important decisions shouldn't be up to a child IMO.

[uppityperson]

308. But that same child can decide to have sex and then deal with pregnancy parenthood?

I find it odd that people think someone not responsible enough to decide to prevent pregnancy are responsible enough to deal with it and being a parent.

[olegramps]

303. What don't you understand.

It is not the government making choices for your children. It is responsible governments making sexual heath care available for minors who CHOOSE to avail themselves of these medical services. They realize that the reality of the situation is that many minors can't approach their parents. There are numerous situations in which the minor must be provided with access to medical services.

What makes you so certain that only parents should have control over their children's health care? What about the cases in which parents belong to some nitwit church and refuse to get their children proper health care even though they may die without it. Here is another aspect to consider. Minors today mature at a much earlier age than in previous generations. Kids as young as 10 and 11 are sexual mature. This presents a real problem that has to be adjusted to. It certainly isn't unreasonable to believe that todays' fourteen year old is equivalent to yesterdays' eighteen year old. Perhaps you haven't been noticing. My one grandson is 15, stands 6'2" and shaves daily.Lately he has been growing a beard. My younger grandson is 13 and is 5'8" and apparently sexually mature.
Have you noticed any 14 year old girls? Many could pass for 21 and that is not an exaggeration.

[rainlillie]

305. Secrecy and keeping things from parents ONLY benefit abusers #1

How young, 8, 9, 10? When can a parent get involved? There's something wrong in this country when my child can't get into a movie rated R, but she can ingest birth control pills without my knowledge. Nothing anyone says is going to convince me that it is the right and responsible thing to do.

[bettyellen]

338. And most often the abusers are family or friends of family, or didn;t you know that?

[uppityperson]

339. Be careful, she'll put you on ignore also

:rofl:

[bettyellen]

340. they never reply when you have facts on your side, or remind them it's not only about their own

[olegramps]

354. It requires the parent to be proactive if they want to lead.

[madinmaryland]

241. Interesting, but a lot of bullshit here, if you reverse the situation. A 14 year old

is not driven to a clinic for a birth control shot and everyone on DU would be screaming bloody murder.

Hypocracy anyone???

[cbdo2007]

252. This is wrong. There could have been side effects or complications, and

it's the girl's parents who know her medical history, etc.

No matter what your stance is on the girl going without her parents consent, it was irresponsible of them to do it without knowing her medical/family history.

[tammywammy]

253. The teen doesn't have to have her parent's consent

And getting birth control requires a full exam.

[cbdo2007]

265. I said in my post - it doesn't matter whether she has to have parental consent or not....

they shoudl check with the parents before medicating the girl for anything if they don't know her family/medical history. What if she had a heart condition and had an adverse reaction to the bc shot?

[rainlillie]

278. An exam doesn't provide the full medical history.

[laughingliberal]

335. Nor do parents in many cases. If I had a dime for every patient I've had who was clueless about...

their medical history or who had no idea what the diagnoses they could name meant...

Gathering a history from the patient or parents of a patient is no guarantee, at all, you will have an accurate history.

There is an excellent case to be made for electronic medical records that health care professionals can access. Patients can be notoriously unreliable historians.

[rainlillie]

275. Thank you so much for bringing some commonsense to this discussion..

[cbdo2007]

298. Thank you for noticing :)

[rainlillie]

314. You're very welcome! Look forward to reading more of your rational posts.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

271. Speaking of horribly disrupting menstrual cramps...

leaving aside the birth control issue, if there had been something I could have done to stop my periods so I would not have cramps, at that age, I would have done it.

The fact is, from the age of 13 to age of 53, I had about four days of cramps, severe fatigue, and generally feeling horrible every month. Multiply that by 13 (there are 13 lunar months in a year) and you got 52 days of being nonfunctional. I had to basically either stay in bed or drag myself to school or work. Our society does NOTHING to acknowledge that women may feel horrible every month,and we are expected to drag ourselves around and work even though we are totally drained.

That's 2080 days. That's 5.7 YEARS of my life when I was disabled. I was also unable to work for six months during and after my pregnancy, just because I was unable to sit up and work because my ribs hurt. I was working trying to eat and sleep and breathe to deal with the strain of the baby on my body. And then it took two months to recuperate.

I wish we had something like menstrual huts, or at least menstrual leave, so that women could stay home and rest and recuperate. It would help if this country had mandated sick leave so that people don't have to drive themselves to exhaustion to keep up with a hyperactive boss with too much testosterone and probably an overactive thyroid as well, who thinks the rest of the world is "lazy' or "unmotivated". Normal people have to sleep, eat and go to the bathroom. Bastard bosses don't. Cramps are not considered a disability, but it should be. It's part of life and some women don't have cramps and some women do.

Menstrual cramps and pregnancy can be very disabling and our society just won't deal with it. Our society doesn't want to deal with the needs of females anyway -- witness Sharron Angle saying "I've had my babies, I don't need maternity leave".

I had my endometriosis removed via laser, I had progesterone treatment, I had the nerves to the uterus cut. NONE of those things helped. I wish I had a dollar for every time a gynecologist said "This will cure your cramps". That was a medical joke.

I did use the 12 week shot when I was on birth control. They said it would stop my periods. I kept having periods anyway so it didn't do anything for that. But if it would stop the girl's periods and enable her to not miss school due to cramps, then I am all in favor of it.

[mzteris]

313. My daughter wanted to get off bc in highschool

because of the "stigma" - even though she was only on them for the devastating periods she had.



And as a GENERA PUBLIC announcement -

she was diagnosed recently with a pituitary microadenoma - which had probably been growing since she was a girl (they grow extremely slowly) - and was/is causing her all sorts of "odd" health problems.

You know the weird stuff the doctors just shake their head over - and call you a hypochondriac because they can't "find a reason" for the problem and suggest it's all in your head?!?

I had a pituitary MACROadenoma removed two years ago - and at my insistence they finally MRI'd her and found she had a micro one.


Pituitary adenomas are not that rare - but they are very UNDERDIAGNOSED. If you have "weird health issues" - especially "female-type" one - ask your doctor.

[melm00se]

289. very interesting analysis of a minors ability

to give medical consent:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/456472_5

[LWolf]

344. I had a visit from a former student Friday after school.

She's a sophomore in high school. She came in to tell me that she's pregnant. Living at home with mom and dad, finishing school through a local charter/home school program. If she follows through.

I sure as hell wish we were offering such services to our students.

[tammywammy]

346. Agreed!

It's best to make birth control well known and available to teens. This school, by having that group there, is doing a great thing for the community that already high teenage pregnancy rate.

The statistics for teen moms/families aren't good. Teenage moms to usually destined to poor paying jobs, poverty, etc. Even worse is that their children end up usually with poor paying jobs especially if the mom has dropped out of high school. Then it becomes a very hard cycle to break. It's best that we help those teens that want to or are having sex from becoming pregnant.

Haven't we seen what an abstinent only sexual education does through the Bush years? It increases teen pregnancy. And for the posters railing against this, if you have a good home where sexual discussions can take place, these laws aren't to protect YOUR kids, they're to protect the kids that don't have that.

Good luck to your former student, I hope her family is *really* there to support her.