Political Power Squared

[H2O Man]

“Jack's own political philosophy expanded with his political growth. He started from his father's house as a conservative, whose exposure, through nationwide travel and politics, to new problems, perspectives, and people, including me, gradually revised his priorities and principles, accommodating the more liberal positions I was urging upon him. I started from my father's home as a liberal idealist, who learned from Kennedy – and from my exposure to practical politics in the Senate and national campaign – that philosophical purity can be so unrealistic as to deny the incremental success necessary to implement my ideals. The point at which our philosophies converged was pragmatic 'idealism without illusions,' the art of the possible, the ability to compromise on tactics without compromising principles.” – Ted Sorensen; Counselor; 2008; page 521.

I think this passage from Ted Sorensen's last book captures some of the tension that has been found on the Democratic Underground in this election season. A number of posts and threads, including recent efforts by Skinner, have approached these issues from slightly different perspectives. In my opinion, the conflict is akin to that between the hemispheres of the human brain, with each side attempting to be dominant. JFK and Sorensen found the healthy balance necessary for a productive approach to the political and social crises of the thousand days of the Kennedy administration.

Despite the still on-going attempts to belittle the Kennedy administration, and to smear John F. Kennedy as a person, rational thinkers recognize that the issues of that era were intense: the Cuban missile crisis; civil rights; and militarism both at home and in Southeast Asia all helped define the world we lived in. As Sorensen often noted, JFK's place among great US Presidents can certainly be debated, but the significance of the issues he faced cannot be argued.

I recognize that, as the result of my participation in some of the numerous debates and arguments on this forum, I do not enjoy the popularity here that I did during, for example, the Plame scandal days. Hence, those things I do post here frequently go unread by the vast majority of forum members. On one hand, that is fine with me: my goal is not to be a cheerful, popular voice here or in real life. It is, rather, to discuss issues, present my interpretation and opinions, and contribute to the potential of meaningful debate …..and to encourage real-life action.

The above quote from Sorensen is my offering of an olive branch to those forum members who believe themselves to be the “action” democrats. Although very few are likely to read it, I think it is food for thought, one day after Sorensen's death, and one day before the elections.

I will follow this up with a few posts on Ted Sorensen, that I think old-timers will enjoy, and that young folk here may find interesting.

Peace & Justice,
H2O Man

[snot]

1. Don't let them bring you down, H2O Man!

For what it's worth . . . http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9414605#9421497 .

[H2O Man]

5. Thank you.

I've never been particularly concerned with being popular. Obviously, on some level, it is more satisfying than being unpopular. But, far more important, is to speak what I believe to be the truth, as best as I can.

Recently, a DUer I've always considered a good friend attacked me on another thread -- one about the "action" business -- as if I'd let her down by having a different viewpoint, based upon my life experience. I think that she owns that problem -- I consider her just as good of a friend, even though she holds a different viewpoint. Maybe she'll get over it, maybe not. Either way, I'll continue to think the way that I do.

[snot]

24. Good on you.

The last several years have taught me a lot about the extent to which people are governed by emotion rather than reason and fact.

[librechik]

2. Many Thanks, H2OMan

fingers crossed today and tomorrow for a better outcome than we expect.

[H2O Man]

7. I think that

the outcome will be positive for the Democratic Party.

[Tsiyu]

3. You will always be one of DU's treasures

We're just at a reactionary point in the process - people don't think they have the time to think. But it is a good think to look back and learn how previous generations handled division and conflicting political ideas.

Your posts always make me think, are always well-written and well-thought-out, and always take a tone of respect and warmth towards the reader.

Your experiences and insight add so much to this forum, but those whippersnappers who avoid your posts just haven't realized it yet.

:pals:

BTW, who is in the pic? Long-haired men make me swoon....

[H2O Man]

6. Thanks.

That is my daughter and I, on a recent visit to St Lawrence. I think she's going to go to college there. Seems to me that my Little Buddy just started kindergarten yesterday, though.

When we spoke with the department chair for political science, he said that he believes their school helps prepare young adults to become responsible, well-informed, contributing citizens. Although it was the first time that I've met him and the other faculty members, I believe him.

[Tsiyu]

16. Then I guess I'm swooning for you!

Seriously, those kiddos grow up too durn fast. I've got three in college, one waiting to hear about his LSAT scores and I'm thinking about them all when they were little halloweeners letting me steal their candy.

Time spent with my grown kids is wonderful, though. To see them as adult liberals who are "responsible, well-informed, contributing citizens" makes me feel like a very wealthy woman.

To know you on these forums only adds to the riches. :)

[mzmolly]

10. +1

:hi:

[Raksha]

11. +1000, and K & R

I always recommend H2O Man's posts even before I read them. I appreciate the wisdom that comes with age, especially considering that I'm the same age. I'm still hoping a little of that wisdom will rub off. :)

[H2O Man]

4. Sorensen on George W. Bush

"George W. Bush is no John F. Kennedy." -- Sorensen; Counselor; page 520

In discussing George W. Bush, Sorensen quotes from a letter that Jackie Kennedy wrote to Chairman Khrushchev in the week following Dallas: "While big men know the need for restraint, little men will sometimes be moved more by fear and pride." He notes that this was an accurate description of how Bush got this country "mired in a mindless war" in Iraq. And he tells of how insulting it was to hear Bush and Rumsfeld quoting JFK in their attempts to justify that war.

[riderinthestorm]

8. I always read your posts H2OMan! You are one of the bright spots

on the board when I see you've put something new up.

None of us are ever going to score 100% in the DU popularity polls (okay, fine, maybe California Peggy or kpete!), but you come damn close. When we have an issue or issues that we feel strongly about, and argue passionately about, that always means somebody's knickers are going to be in a knot.

Your posts are always sincere, thought-provoking, good spirited, and kind. I wish we were all like that.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, H2OMan.:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

14. Thanks, Uncle Joe!

[alsame]

12. K&R. nt

[H2O Man]

13. Thank you.

Much appreciated.

[alsame]

15. No, thank you, H2O Man. You always provide a thought provoking

post and have made me aware of books, writings and philosophies that I didn't previously know about. And I always appreciate your historical perspectives on a wide variety of issues.

I don't always post on your threads, but I read every single one. You are very popular with me.:loveya:

[spanone]

17. i appreciate your writings more & more....sanity can be a lost commodity at times

r

[Tatiana]

18. "The New Vision"

In this campaign, I will make no promises I cannot fulfill, pledge no spending we cannot afford, offer no posts to cronies you cannot trust, and propose no foreign commitment we should not keep. I will not shrink from opposing any party faction, any special interest group, or any major donor whose demands are contrary to the national interest. Nor will I shrink from calling myself a liberal, in the same sense that Franklin and Theodore Roosevelt, John and Robert Kennedy, and Harry Truman were liberals -- liberals who proved that government is not a necessary evil, but rather the best means of creating a healthier, more educated, and more prosperous America.

<snip>

We have adopted some of the most indefensible tactics of our enemies, including torture and indefinite detention.

We have degraded our military.

We have treated our most serious adversaries, such as Iran and North Korea, in the most juvenile manner -- by giving them the silent treatment. In so doing, we have weakened, not strengthened, our bargaining position and our leadership.

At home, as health care costs have grown and coverage disappeared, we have done nothing but coddle the insurance, pharmaceutical, and health care industries that feed the problem.

As global warming worsens, we have done nothing but deny the obvious and give regulatory favors to polluters.

As growing economic inequality tarnishes our democracy, we have done nothing but carve out more tax breaks for the rich.

During these last several years, our nation has been bitterly divided and deceived by illicit actions in high places, by violations of federal, constitutional, and international law. I do not favor further widening the nation’s wounds, now or next year, through continuous investigations, indictments, and impeachments. I am confident that history will hold these malefactors accountable for their deeds, and the country will move on.

Instead, I shall seek a renewal of unity among all Americans, an unprecedented unity we will need for years to come in order to face unprecedented danger.

(more....)

http://americanrhetoric.com/speeches/tedsorensen2008dnchopeful.htm

Some of the language in Obama's nomination acceptance speech is very Sorensenesque.

[H2O Man]

27. For good reason!

Sorensen viewed Barack Obama as this generation's JFK.

[Tatiana]

28. Yes, he did. I hope his trust and belief was not misplaced.

Thank you for this beautiful reminder of a wonderful public servant.

Your opinions are always valued and of interest from this neck of the woods!

[Me.]

19. A Nugget Which Gets To The Heart Of Progressive Discontent

"the ability to compromise on tactics without compromising principles.”

The compromise of ideals to take incremental steps is the issue and why progressives aren't feeling the change they voted for.

As to the other point in your OP....popularity, smerity. Keep writing.

[me b zola]

20. K&R

:grouphug:

[Octafish]

21. How can light be both a wave and a particle?

Thank you for putting into words how things from the real world work, H20 Man. United, there is nothing We the People cannot do. That is what Ted Sorensen and JFK showed us. That is what the "invisible government" want us to forget.

Mr. Sorensen's passing is a real blow to Democrats -- and all who love the United States of America. I posted this today in LBN and about 18 months ago in GD:

A True Patriot

Throughout his life and in all his work, Ted Sorensen put dreams into words that led to peace and a better world.



It was my privilege to hear Mr. Sorensen speak about the 60s at Macomb Cultural Center at Macomb Community College in Clinton Township, Michigan on March 26, 2009. I wished my wife and kids could’ve been there with me. I also wished my DU friends could hear him talk about the decade that he said will be remembered as a most important period in the coming centuries.

Sorensen described three major accomplishments of the Kennedy Administration that may prove essential for the survival of the nation and planet:

1. Man left the earth, braved the sea of space and voyaged to the moon, exploring a new world. In the process, the U.S. demonstrated to the world that free people can establish technological and peaceful pre-eminence in space.

2. Established in law that all Americans are equal, enforcing the integration of universities in Mississippi and Alabama. Federalized states’ national guards and sent in the Army to preserve law and order on the campus.

3. Kept the peace when almost every counselor in his cabinet and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff urged the President to launch an attack on Cuba, a move that would have immediately led to a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union.

Mr. Sorensen detailed how the world would be after a nuclear war, one where a radioactive atmosphere would mean only a few things might survive if they were underground somewhere. That’s when I thought of cockroaches and Cheney and Poppy Bush and their nonsense of not only survivng, but winning nuclear war.

Anyway, Mr. Sorensen stood the entire time he spoke. He was very engaging and displayed a great and spontaneous sense of humor. He was interesting and profound and sincere.

After the speech, I met him in the book signing line. He asked my name and I couldn’t remember because I was thinking what a wonderful human being. And how lucky I am to be here, not just in the presence of history, not just in the presence of greatness, but in the presence of a truly good man, a leader in every way, a giant, an American hero. I thanked him for keeping the peace when almost everybody counseled war. I wanted to ask a million questions, but started to tear-up.

I wrote about it on DU. DUers on that thread also showed greatness and why this place is so important for keeping alive great ideas and great dreams -- the real stuff this world is made of.

[H2O Man]

29. While those of our

generation tend to remember the role he played -- along with Attorney General Robert Kennedy -- in the Cuban Missile Crisis, I think it would be difficult for younger folks to really appreciate it. The tapes from those Thirteen Days record Sorensen's recognizing the possibility of responding to the first message from Moscow -- which was from the Chairman -- rather than the second, which was from the Soviet military hawks.

Sorensen, who had zero international experience, drafted the President's response. RFK, of course, assisted him in this. While it might seem the obvious response today, at the time, too strong/aggressive a message would have empowered the Soviet hawks, while too weak a response would surely have resulted in the US military taking actions beyond civilian control.

I have a few "favorite" Ted Sorensen stories that I'll share in the next 24 hours. I'm sure that you know most or all of them. I might have one, not recorded in any magazine article or book, that you'll enjoy. I definitely appreciate your insights on this thread.

[kohodog]

22. Hi There H20 Man!

While I do miss "the old days" and threads like the incomparable Plame threads and Octafish's BFEE links, time moves on. My daughter, 9 or 10 at the time is a political science major and our discussion of topics brought up on du may have contributed to her activism.

At any rate, I like to look at how this political mess may be affecting this generation of teens and 20 somethings. I see many of my son's and daughter's friends who are developing a sense of community that is caring, diverse and not centered on materialistic values. With networks like facebook they stay connected even when great distances separate them. They care where their food is grown. They care about how the environment is treated and want to lower their footprint. They worry that we are on an unsustainable path and see past much of the bs that occupies our politician's time.

I too hope that this period of disruption and set backs will lead more people to the realization that over time we must develop a new paradigm. After all, the constitution guarantees out rights but does not directly endorse free market capitalism as some would suggest.

This ugliness may be a necessary step, a necessary fight to help us see a better direction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. You are one of the best

[felix_numinous]

25. '...the art of the possible,

the ability to compromise on tactics without compromising principles.'

Interesting you mentioned the left and right brain hemispheres, one for the details and the other for the big picture. Here on DU there is such a mix, from the personal to the collective. This site manifested out of an absence of discourse from the left, and the imbalance of power as a result of that.

The RW hate machine is a constant 24 hour verbal assault on our sense of identity, they badly want us to forget who we are and why we are here. They try to knock us off our game by confounding us with details to obscure our sense of the big picture, to make us lose our instinct so we will lose strategy. I think there is also a clear intent by the RW to prevent us from trusting each other, so we will not work together. I am glad that is not working out well for them, yet their influence still seeps in here from time to time.

Thank you for posting this, I missed the smears you referred to and am glad of that.

Hoping for a Happy Tuesday.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. You are such a wealth of information and wisdom...

and I'm so grateful you choose to share it here.

:hug:

K&R

[Scurrilous]

30. K & R

:thumbsup: