So, does the Democratic Congress own this war now?

[The Backlash Cometh]

I saw something change last night. I think it was on CNN, but the ticker tape exploded with news about casualties in Iraq. It just kept scrolling across the t.v.. one bad incident after the other and I thought, "Wow, they're not trying to sugar coat it this time."

So what changed? Did the Republicans get clever and finally get the Democrats to buy this war so now they have a winning campaign issue in 2008?

[demnan]

1. yes

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. It's kind of sinking in right now. The Democrats got outfoxed.

By not putting up a fight, they now look like they're complicit in this war. It won't be much longer before a Republican comes up with a "solution" to leave, and suddenly, it will be the Republican's idea.

[City Lights]

6. You are so right!

And I'm feeling a little nauseous thinking about a Republicon getting credit for coming up with a solution to get us out of Iraq. :-(

[A wise Man]

12. And if this does happens

You can bet that the media will hammer it home and blame the dems for the failure. I didn't know that our dem representatives were so dumb!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. They forgot the crucial factor:

They don't own the media. The media has been all too kind to Bush, and why did they think it would be different now?

I hope they watch the news very closely during the Memorial weekend, because everything is about to change for them.

[Jim Warren]

38. That might be their plan all along

Karl's got a lot of time on his hands to fit the pieces to this puzzle together.
BushCos line throughout has been "If the Dems have a plan I'd like to hear it."

I can imagine them cackling over this one.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. Impeachment IS a plan.

But, since they refused to go that route, they're on their own coming up with another.

[Turbineguy]

2. Just the parts

that go wrong.

If the sun rises it's all because of the Genius of our Glorious Leader!

[orpupilofnature57]

3. I believe Pelosi making her first order of business to announce..

" Impeachment isn't on the table " was the kiss of death.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. So, is there any way to get rid of Pelosi before her term is up?

Damn, and I so thought she'd be different.

[Nunyabiz]

8. First Pelosi and Reid need to be Impeached

Then get a Statesman in those positions and start Impeachment proceedings on both Bush & Cheney & Gonzo, then just fire the rest.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Now wouldn't that be a twist.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. Representatives and Senators

cannot be impeached.

[Nunyabiz]

49. Wrong

ANY "Civil officer of the United States" can be Impeached, be they Representatives, Senators, Judges, State Governors etc.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. sorry, you're wrong

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi move_on!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. When did you start paying attention to politics?

I'm curious, because, the Congressional Democrats have been capitulating to the Republicans since the 90s. It's the blogs who have been Bush bashing and it has actually become quite trendy of late only because the Republicans who feel betrayed by Bush, are joining in.

It's the Congressional Dems who appear weak because they continue to capitulate to the Republicans. There was only a short period, right before they started to win this last election, where they were very vocal with the Bush bashing. Now that they quieted that down, watch their popularity rates drop.

[KharmaTrain]

7. It Has Booooosh All Over It...

Was there any Democrat involved in the planning of this invasion? Was there any Democrat who signed a declaration similar to the PNAC manifesto in '98 to push for "pre-emptive war"? Those who voted for the IWR did so under extreme political pressure and they now have to explain to us about those votes. However, other than Liebermann, I don't see any Democrat's name on this invasion...even with what happened yesterday.

Today's vote will be one of what I hope are many that continuously put not just Democrats, but Repugnicans on the record of their support of this invasion. The fact is Repugnicans still overwhelmingly support this bloodlust and it's their war...no matter how pissed we are now. What are the alternatives?

By all means, the Democrats who voted to cave in should get an earful and thensome from all of us as to our displeasure and to show how strong the opposition to this invasion is. They need to start believing they're in the majority and not worry what the corporate stenographers and talking heads say...and they need to know we're watching them closely with both our checkbooks and our shoe leather.

[Selatius]

9. This was Bush and the Repubs war. Now the Democrats own it as a third partner.

[magellan]

31. My thoughts exactly

And the American people in general -- or at least that 70% who want the occupation ended -- will pretty much see it the same way.

[napi21]

11. BOY! Talk about Shrub stompping his feet and throwing a hissey

fit when things don't go just the way HE WANTS! You folks just joind the hissey fit crowd!

NO, the Dems don't own this war! It's STILL all Shrub's and will be until HE'S gone!

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Then they should have put up a fight, because the soldiers in Iraq

would have appreciated it.

[tularetom]

13. Nope, but you can bet that's how it will be portrayed

Press and brodacast journalists pundits propagandists foxperts newsbimbos etc. will be babbling 24-7 about how the Dems could have stopped this clusterfuck if they'd only had the courage.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. It's already beginning.

Watch the news and see if there isn't an increase in information regarding Iraq casualties.

[Rydz777]

17. No, but they will as soon as they pass the "Capitulation to the

Decider" bill. They are so busy talking they don't hear the voice of the American people which is loud and clear. Support the troops by bringing them home alive NOW.

[DU9598]

18. Maybe you can continue spreading the talking point

If that is your goal ...

[Virginia Dare]

21. As far as I can tell, it's only Democrats who are trying to end the war..

:shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Okay, please give me your rationale how what they did in the last

24 hours fits in with ending the war?

[Virginia Dare]

36. They did more than the Republicans..

give me your rationale and how they own it? The Republicans are the ones obstructing the ending of the war.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. Watch the media. What you will see is an escalation of the news

on Iraq and what will happen is that the level of angst will increase in America. People don't think clearly when they're emotionally charged. That's exactly how the Republicans like it. Before the next election they will start telling the public that they gave the Democrats a chance in 2006 and they did nothing to get us out of this war, and in fact, gave into Bush. So, if they want out, they'll have to vote for a real conservative Republican, not one like Bush who tarnished Reagan's legacy.

Capiche? It's all about perception. That's why it was so important for the Dems to go down fighting.

[Virginia Dare]

48. You can turn that around and say that's why it's so..

important that the Dems compromised this round. The spin in the media was that the Dems had to get a deal done by Memorial Day. Well, they did. Now they can't be accused of abandoning the troops in the field, and the chimp will have to come back begging again in September. By then things will be even worse in Iraq, and I'll wager there will be more Repubs on board for withdrawal and they will have a better chance of a veto proof bill. I'm sure that's what they're banking on too. In the meantime they can step up the political pressure, railing on them as obstructionists to ending the war.

[The Backlash Cometh]

53. Who is going to turn it around?

That's not what I'm hearing in the media. They'll have to be far more vocal if you want to get that opinion past the censors.

[Virginia Dare]

55. DU is doing a bang up job on them as well...n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. If you give a guy a gun and pay him to kill someone......?

That's a tough one.

[Perky]

23. NO NO NO

This is still Bush's war but those who voted for the funding are going to have to work very hard for my support in 2008..

[Bake]

24. No, this is NOT the Dem Congress' war!

You who are saying it is, are simply spouting Repub bullshit. This is Bush's War, and should be termed that EVERY SINGLE TIME. Bush's War.

Just because we have a very slim majority doesn't mean we are in charge. We're a slim majority in ONE BRANCH of the government, with not even enough of a majority to override a presidential veto. We do NOT (yet) control the White House. We do NOT (yet) control the judiciary.

Bake

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Like Skinner says, sometimes it's okay to go down fighting.

You get more respect and draw more loyal supporters that way.

[Bake]

35. I don't necessarily disagree with that, either

But this is NOT the Dems' war. It's King George's War. That was the question I addressed.

Bake

[Virginia Dare]

37. Have they said they've given up the fight?...n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. When you surrender your weapons, that usually is an indication that

you've given up.

[Virginia Dare]

45. That's a bit overdramatic...

this wasn't a surrender, it was a compromise. You can be angry that they made any compromise at all, but don't accuse them of surrendering.

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Please tell me what they got out of it?

A compromise generally means that both sides lost something of importance. If withdrawal from Iraq was top on their list, what did they get in return that was worth what they gave up?

[Virginia Dare]

50. $20 billion in domestic spending..

which will aid veterants, poor children and hurricane victims. They also got a minimum wage increase and a tax cut for small businesses.

[The Backlash Cometh]

51. Social programs which Bush should have supported anyways?

Are you kidding me? We gave up bringing our troops in and Bush agreed to pay for social programs that would have made him look worse if he hadn't?

Oh, my God. That wasn't a compromise. That's like my giving my sister my brand new Christmas Barbie in return for her old one because she said hers was alive like the Velveteen Rabbit!

[Virginia Dare]

54. Should have supported..

but he wasn't going to. He doesn't give a rat's ass about the American people. Personally, I still believe that the Democrats do, although I realize I'm in the minority here.

I don't know how many times it has to be said before it sinks in but the Democrats could NOT get a veto proof bill through which included timelines, it just isn't going to happen right now. THEY DON"T HAVE THE VOTES. 30 Democrats won't sign off on it, and a majority of Repubs. That's called a stalemate.

They got Bush to sign off on the domestic spending, which he most assuredly would have vetoed otherwise in exchange for dropping the timelines, which he already had vetoed. You aren't giving something up if you didn't have it in the first place.

They obviously didn't get what they set out for, but don't say they didn't get ANYTHING from Bush out of it, because they most definitely did.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. I hope that you turn out to be right.

[onenote]

25. no. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

27. No.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

28. Lock, stock, and barrel.

May the blood on their hands haunt their dreams for the rest of their miserable lives.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Quite Simply Without Question, No; They Don't

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. You watch the media very carefully.

The news coverage will suddenly escalate, and as another poster to this thread stated, the Dems will appear to be a partner in this war.

[Beaverhausen]

40. In reality- NO; according to the media-YES

and lots of people here are buying into the media spin.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. That's been my point all along.

They gave the media and Rove something to use against them.

[Jim Warren]

41. I'm afraid that's how it will play out

and only a few of us are going to know that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Exactly.

I'm just hoping we'll be able to call it loud enough to stop it from happening.

[Jim Warren]

52. Big problem

It will bring the Dem congress back to zero. The 70+% of the American public who just want us out of Iraq are gonna see the Dems as now complicit.

Or wimps, which may be a worse thing in the American electorate consciousness; just ask poppy bush.

[wiggs]

57. No question: joint custody. nt