Where I draw the line, by Roger Ebert (on the TSA)

[The Straight Story]

Where I draw the line
By
Roger Ebert


TSA.gifIt appears that not a single TSA agent has declined to perform a full-body pat down of airline passengers. That includes patting down small children. They're not patted down on a routine basis, but on some occasions they can be and they are. A child under 12, sometimes way under 12, may be required to remove outer clothing and be touched on such areas as the genitals.

Would you take this job? I don't believe I would. But it's worth reflecting that employment as a TSA agent is a good job in these hard times of high unemployment. The starting pay is $12.85 an hour, better than Wendy's for an employee who needs only a high school diploma. It goes higher. The 40 hours of training are paid for by the government. Agents are given uniforms, badges, "a choice of health care plans," and power.
...

I don't want that job. I don't want to stand there and look at a man walking toward me whose genitals I must touch, however vaguely. I don't want to see a little boy, bawling his head off, whose parents have raised suspicions with the TSA and who therefore must have his wee-wee area checked. I would hate that job. It would be a torture.

So I'm standing there, explaining to some guy why he can't be with his kid while the terrified kid gets his groin groped. He's always told the kid if anyone ever tries that, just call dad and he'll clock the son of a bitch. Now the kid is flying on an airplane for the first time, and daddy has been pulled aside by a man in a uniform, who must be a cop, and daddy and mommy may be arrested for all he knows, and another cop-looking man is feeling around down there, and daddy can't stop him.


They say most child abusers were abused as children. Are some of these incidents traumatic enough for younger travelers that they could produce similar results? We're great in this country about doing things that are "good" for children. I had radiation beamed into my ear as a kid, to cure an ear infection, and look at me now. A small event in childhood can have a domino effect in your life.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/11/where_i_draw_the_line.html

[flpab]

1. BS

I work at an airport and this is such BS, you know this is hurting our economy and is fear. We heard so many pax this week ask us what the media was talking about because security was a breeze. The kid that alarmed the wtmd and his shirt was off, the Dad did that to speed the process, kids have so much junk in their pockets, the TSA man told the Dad to put the shirt back on. Kids under 12 do not get the invasive pat down, the parent is suppose to stay with the kid. Take off belts, don't wear clothes with tons of zippers, bangle bracelets, big earrings, cigs and foil alarm. If you have knee replacements, hips etc use the scanner, tell them. If you have a pacemaker you need the pat down. I am not TSA but work with these people all the time and many are highly educated. The job market sucks where I live and there are many retired military, have a retired NYPD cop and a NYFD firemen that retired after the clean up. I know many are students getting their degrees. We all congregate at the outside picnic tables and was surprised by the diverse group. They make more than many airline employees but deal with a lot of crap. We all get abused at the airport. Treat your gate agent, flight attendant and car rental person a little nicer this holiday season please.

[hlthe2b]

4. Your defense of your fellow workers is admirable...

But, it isn't the "good apples" that are causing the problems.

[GliderGuider]

5. I get the impression there's not a lot of sympathy for your position out here

Seems like every time someone puts on a uniform, the folks who pay their salary get abused by an arbitrary exercise of power. Lots of people are un- or under-employed. They don't all resort to groping people for a living.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. I understand your frustration. Thanks for a comment from the other side of this.

Peace to you.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

8. Agreed. A dear friend of mine, who was raped a few years ago, traveled on Tuesday

from D.C. National Airport, arguably one of the most rigid security systems in the country. Afraid of radiation--again, due to the Corporate Media's attempt to make us afraid--she opted instead for the pat down. So, of course, I was nervous and worried for her. And she was nervous and somewhat afraid. I told her to call me as soon as she got through security at National and let me know how it went.

She called immediately after and told me that it was all "media hype!" She said that going through the pat down was "nothing," in her words. She told me that she didn't feel violated and that she got through the whole incident with absolutely no "issues."

[Mojorabbit]

25. I had a totally opposite treatment

several years ago. I am glad your friend had a fairly innocuous experience. Mine was not.

[CreekDog]

30. mine never is, i get the full workover every time, in October it was particularly unpleasant

in two weeks when I fly, I shudder to think what it will be like.

and there may be numerous forced xrays to go with it.

i'm probably going to need to take something beforehand to calm me.

[boppers]

51. Yo, CreekDog, it would help fellow DU'ers if you gave context.

We've hashed this out before, but not everybody has a summary of *why* you get such a work over.

[CreekDog]

54. because i set off the metal detector

and it's unavoidable.

but it's not just about me, it's about the fact that security is designed to give a certain segment of the passengers the full workover but the reasons people are chosen and not chosen seem fairly odd and easy for someone with ill-intent to outsmart, however those who cannot are frequently so for medical reasons.

the final point is that when you think something is necessary and rare, the important thing to consider is that some people, through no fault of their own will get the full workover each and every time they fly.

so if you are chosen 1 out of 10 times you fly --you may think, "no big deal right?" (not me). but if you are in a wheelchair or have a variety of medical issues, imagine getting all the scans and all the invasive screening -every, single time you fly. on top of that imagine that it will get worse than it is even today --contrast today with last year and 3 years ago for example. what on earth will we go through next year?

those are the reasons i've been harping on not the invasiveness and unpleasantness of the screening --because they really are unpleasant and they are not rare for many people.

further,

:hi:

[boppers]

56. Sadly, IIRC, your "profiling" is based on a past attack.

I am profiled/prodded a good 95% percent of the time for very similar reasons (I match past attack profiles in a large number of ways). I've figured out how to "outsmart" it now, for the most part, but what I take away from your post is simply this:

The false positives outweigh the benefits.

[CreekDog]

58. that's basically right combined with it getting more unpleasant each time

and also because i can't *not* set off the metal detector.

anyone who has the choice is more of a threat than i am.

there is no way a terrorist would be setting off the metal detector every time and open themselves to the scrutiny that i receive --that makes no sense. and i mean the past scrutiny of 6 months ago, 2 years ago, 7 years ago, heck, probably even 10 years ago.

frankly, screen me for explosives and let that be that. swab part of my body, find the metal and be done with it.

the idea that one thing constantly sets things off and leads to an exhaustive search that always turns up nothing --that's not a good plan and it's singling out a lot of people who don't deserve the level of scrutiny.

the point is that if we're setting off some alarm, they should find out what's setting it off, identify that and move on. if there's something on my lower leg setting off the metal detector, does it make any sense to ALWAYS subject me to patting down my private areas for explosives? it makes no sense, and it's pretty unfair to boot.

and nevermind, they aren't doing this to most passengers, most passengers not having metal on them is not indicative of their likelihood of having no explosives on them.

[boppers]

60. They're not just looking for explosive materials.

They're looking for working pieces of the chain.

In case you have not had a mis-spent youth, the chain goes like this:

1. Power source.
2. Detonation device.
3. Explosives that can be detonated.

All three can be carried by different people, so anybody who might be carrying a *piece* is scrutinized as if they had an assembled bomb.

#1 is absurdly common, now, but it's why single large battery devices aren't allowed on planes. (15 people carrying cell phones, or laptops, or DVD players, whatever.... on *one* flight, however, are... absurd).

#2 is why people are being frisked for snaps, small rods, anything that looks like a blasting cap, primer cap, etc.

#3 is the reason for the swabbing, to look for materials. I handle these every so often (my father is a magician, and a gunsmith, so every time I visit him I get "tainted"). I wash my clothes before flying, but occasionally forget.

Perhaps the solution is to stop searching for all three. A power source doesn't bring a plane down. A detonator is a bang, without much effect, without a shock wave. The #3 is the big issue.

[herbm]

61. I don't fly anymore because I always won the random seach lottery. Random, my butt.

I used to carry a little pot with me and the two times they tore my luggage apart, they never found it hidden in plain sight. It made me have to drive to Montreal from Austin and back one or twice a month for a year and I never ever had any special attention at the border.

I know my SDS participation had a little to do with it. But a lot of the other participants I knew from then are now NeoCons and tea baggers and LaRouchies.

This crap may sell alot of equiptment and make for a lot of $12.50 jobs with a choice of health plans, but it doesn't make us safer and it doesn't make me feel any safer. About a month after Sept 11 when I flew for one of the last time I flew, the sight of assault carbines and machine pistols in the airport did not make me feel safer. The uniforms were black and the trigger tickling young men around 21 years old gave me no confidence at all. It seemed they were relishing the thought of paybacks if trouble presented itself. And they looked a lot like security in parts of occupied Europe in the 1940's.

This stuff won't work. In fact I think it acclimates Americans for further intrusion into thier lives by authority.

[boppers]

65. It's not all entirely random, I don't think it was ever "sold" that way.

There are lots of "tells" that are used to determine who must be screened, *and*, just to make it more fair (and less obvious about what the tells are), additional people are randomly picked.

In my case, I *know* I'll be selected the next time I fly, because my last name was changed, and that takes a while to percolate through all the databases.

[herbm]

70. Origionaly so that the word 'profiling' wouldn't be used, 'random' was.

"I'm sorry Mr Morehead, but our computer has selected you randomly for a closer search, would you mind picking up your luggage and following that gentleman over to the table?"

I've heard that a lot and without break for a lot of my flights. The ONLY time it didn't happen was flying with my wife and kids from Orlando in '96 the day the Value Jet flew ito a swamp about a hundred miles away.

It only got worse after Sept 11.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. I'm so sorry to hear about that. I hope you're o.k. n/t

[boppers]

50. Several years ago....

...before current TSA protocols, right?

[Mojorabbit]

63. Yes, before the enhanced search. nt

[sabrina 1]

26. She can thank the outrage that the TSA has now backed off

some of their abuses. This 'outrage' has been around since these machines were first heard of back in 2004 under Bush. The Left has successfully stopped their use in our country until last year. Was it hype when the ACLU and other Civil rights organizations battled them in court under the Bush administration.

Seems like Democrats are as bad as Republicans when it comes to the old 'it's okay if a Republican does it'.

Where have all these apologists for what Obama has done regarding these machines, come from on the left? You could not find one on the left when Bush was trying to do it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. Hey, I'm just relating the story. I was really worried about her. That's all. Back off. n/t

[CreekDog]

29. maybe her fear of "ionizing radiation" was not based on the media but upon UCSF professors

and Johns Hopkins School professors?

in which case, her fear is more prudent than your brush-off.

:eyes:

[avaistheone1]

33. snap

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

45. No snap! That was very insulting! We were both very afraid about her experience.

Because that experience didn't comport with those who disagree with the pat down doesn't make it any less valid!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boppers]

55. This again?

Yes, it's ionizing radiation, just like you get from sunlight, flying on a plane, or eating a banana.

We know that people who tan, fly, and eat food, get sick and die from those activities.

What UCSF and the Hopkins folks are lacking, because the whole field is lacking, is metrics, because you can't actually do a test like that. You have to wait for people to do it to themselves.

[Matariki]

49. And by all accounts the TSA toned it down for the holiday travels - or at least

until all the negative attention 'blows over' - and hopefully that won't be until they stop.

Your friend is being a bit myopic to think that just because something didn't happen to her it must all be 'media hype'. There has been WAY too many accounts to the contrary.

[Skittles]

9. I hear you

I'm a frequent flier, have never any problems, and always treat the airline personnel with respect

[CreekDog]

31. i have problems, TSA agent put their hand inside my pants between them and my body

TSA's people are telling me i cannot opt out of multiple x-rays to my body.

i'm just telling you, you shouldn't judge everyone's experience by your own.

me, the groping was unpleasant before (and i get the full thing every, every time)...now the groping appears to be far worse.

and the forced x-rays. yikes.

[Skittles]

40. HELLO

when did I judge anyone else's experiences? I AM RELATING MY OWN, JUST LIKE YOU ARE. Gawd, I have never seen so much hysteria and paranoia on DU.

[CreekDog]

41. you keep minimizing what others have reported

i never said your experience was bad because mine was.

though i do think it's pretty selfish to think that a procedure that you don't go through is fine for other people --some of us go through it every time we fly.

[Skittles]

46. you mean like this?

get your fucking facts straight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=9619515#9619641

[Boudica the Lyoness]

48. I don't think respect has anything to do with it.

I'm sure many TSA workers are polite and respectful, but that's not the point. I just get pissed off the government tells me, that in order for me to fly, I have to hold still and let some mother-fucker feel around my breasts, genitals and my bum. For some fucking reason that really makes me mad.

I would say the government is not treating us with respect. In fact they are being down right disrespectful.

[Skittles]

64. poor baby

perhaps you should direct your anger less on people who are doing their jobs, and more to the people making them do it.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

66. I'm not a fucking baby

lets get that fucking straight right fucking now. I have sons and grandchildren and I don't want them living in world where cowards like you expect us to give up our fucking rights because you go through life scared shitless.

Are you trying to insinuate I am not angry at terrorists or I want to protect them? How dare you. Go and hide under your bed.

[Evoman]

71. I am madly in love with you, +1

[lunatica]

10. Frankly I find your post revolting

You portray the children and parents as the one's who are victimizing you and your fellow workers. I don't care if I get deleted by the mods. I find your words abhorrent.

[GliderGuider]

12. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I agree with you

nt

[flpab]

16. It is Obama, and Pistole that are at fault

I voted and support Pres Obama but four tsa screeners did the pat down in front of White house staffers last week and they were put off by it but never stopped it. I feel that there are always bad people in every profession that make all look bad but have to say that my airports screeners are great. They dealt with so many elderly this week and first time or yearly pax that I would have been at my wit's end but they stayed positive and helpful. Unless you witness it first hand I would be hesitant to believe everything reported in the media. I have seen some nasty gate agents and rude car agents also but the majority will bend over backward to help you out. But have seen some very nasty people that treat us like we are crap. One fellow agent who was pregnant and would not give an upgrade to a pax was told he hoped her baby died. We get threats daily by people who think we have control over the weather, mechanical problems and over booking.

[lunatica]

20. You're still trying to make the tsa screeners out to be victims

Sorry, but I'm not buying the BS, and at this point I don't believe you. I think you're making this up just to blame Obama.

[hlthe2b]

24. I have had to give up very good jobs because of ethical concerns

I respect the difficulties, but if TSA will not push back at what they are being required to do (they are unionized, after all), then they are going to receive their share of the blame from a frustrated public. At some point this "just following orders" stance, just doesn't "cut" it.

[intheflow]

28. +100

Maybe not "little Eichmanns" as Churchill said, but they are still doing what they can to make sure the trains run on time, no matter how that violates human rights.

[Angry Dragon]

36. They may belong to a union but have no bargaining rights

so I am not sure how much a union helps them at this point.

Union urges TSA to give bargaining rights to screeners

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1110/111610nj1.htm

[tblue37]

47. They are not unionized yet, I believe. The way was just legally cleared

last week for them to become unionized, but the process is not instantaneous.

[blueamy66]

68. WTF?

Get another job, and quickly! And quit over-booking. It should be illegal. :-)

[Lorien]

37. +1 nt

[saigon68]

57. Its Not just ABHORRENT----its Fascist and DLC Party Line

Scare the fuck out of amerika---- Go Obama Go-- and if you believe that creature Napolitano---- the only ones who can save us are double digit IQ MORANS with a pretty shirt, a badge and rubber gloves used FOR feeling testicles

ITS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT and CERTAIN SHEEP who apparently love their privates fondled are eating it up.

There are a few million more religious nut jobs out there like Mohammed Atta. And they won't be stopped by some idiot in a uniform fondling an 85 year old, White Haired Retired School Teachers Vulva

[krabigirl]

27. ....

[trumad]

32. Do you live in Daytona?

What airport do you work for?

[blueamy66]

67. retired public servants?

I'm supposed to have a bit of care for them? Working on a second pension? Please.

I'm the child of an AA retiree...who has since passed away...."treat your gate agent nicer" hah, he would be the first to laugh at you!!!! They don't give a sh**. Get on the plane and shut up was my Dad's mantra.....

[PavePusher]

69. Or perhaps... just perhaps....

we could restore the Fourteenth, Fourth, Fifth and Second Amendments at airports and on airplanes, and actually establish our bonafides as a nation of freedom and liberty.

Just a random thought.


"We all get abused at the airport."

And the problem is that you seem to be O.K. with that.

[eShirl]

2. He raises a good point about unintended consequences.

"They say most child abusers were abused as children. Are some of these incidents traumatic enough for younger travelers that they could produce similar results? We're great in this country about doing things that are "good" for children. I had radiation beamed into my ear as a kid, to cure an ear infection, and look at me now. A small event in childhood can have a domino effect in your life."

[hlthe2b]

3. Exactly...

Ironically, I don't even have kids but seem more concerned about the impact on them than many parents--including some DUers who have mocked me.

His point about his having received radiation in his ear for an infection is pretty horrifying as well. What will we think of using these scanners on the vulnerable, in years to come, as well?

[Generic Other]

39. I don't ever change my mind about unnecessary x-rays

The medical/scientific community changes its mind constantly about what constitutes a safe level of radiation.

[redirish28]

7. I understand your defense but I'm sorry NO ONE should be treated this way for "Safety"

naked picture and groping is nothing more than a violation of my constitutional freedom and my dignity. No I will not be flying while these measures are in place.

[flpab]

15. They don't want to grope anyone, Tell OBAMA

This is so political starting with tom dashle and Chernoff who are making tons of money off the scanners. John Mica R-Fl is trying to make money and is already with donations and his wife's involement in owning private companies. Obama needs to get rid of Pistole who is a die in the wool frisk them they are all criminals cop egomaniac. I see the check point and very few get the pat down, mostly hips, knees and those that won't take off jewelry. I bet it is about 3%. I hear the comments, the TSA screeners are freaking over the invasive pat down and they feel it is over the top but they are the ones getting the heat not Nappy and Pistole and Obama.

[redirish28]

18. They need to complain. Perhaps get the "blue" flu. make a stand against it.

What would happen if 50% or more of the TSA workers got "ill" didn't show up for work.

[woo me with science]

23. +1000000000000000 nt

[woo me with science]

22. +10000000000000000 nt

[woo me with science]

62. This is the correct answer.

All the arguments about children, or cancer survivors, or old people, or people with colostomy bags, or sexual abuse survivors are red herrings, however well-meaning the arguments may be.

It is not wrong because of any specific subgroup. It is wrong because it is a fundamental violation of liberty, privacy, and dignity. It is wrong because it is a violation of our Fourth Amendment rights.

It is wrong for EVERYONE.

[GliderGuider]

11. When Bush was in power I refused to fly in US airspace. When Obama was elected I relented.

Now my refusal is back in place.

I'm just one Canadian citizen, so my position isn't going to make a pinch of difference to anyone. However, in the face of such outrageous violations of civil liberties and such obvious social herding by TPTB, a combination of boycott and self-protection seems like a good idea.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Roger Ebert is a good man

Unlike the wretches in government, he has talent and caring for his fellow human beings. I agree with him fully on this.

[Lorien]

38. +1. He has a great deal of genuine compassion for his fellow human beings

unlike the profit and power driven who are pushing these new procedures. If the government cared about our safety then we'd have Universal health care and Monsanto wouldn't be running the FDA.

[Mimosa]

53. "If the government cared about our safety then we'd have Universal health care and ..."

Lorien, I couldn't resist. ;) Your words bear repeating until some people wake up before it's too late.

Poor Roger. I do believe the radiation he went through as a child could have triggered that awful cancer. ;(

[IDemo]

17. Haven't flown since the 90's

Before any of this hit the fan, I placed myself on my own No Fly list. This puts airlines and airports on my permanent ignore list.

Sorry if some airport workers are feeling oppressed, but the Scan 'n Pat treatment is tantamount to a presumption of guilty until proven innocent. No, you have not been arrested or charged with a crime, but must nonetheless undergo the same treatment. Screw that.

[fasttense]

19. You know, I'm sorry that these warrant-less searches are hurting

both children and adults, customers and security agents, but I feel that it is beside the point.

The point is we are being searched and seized in violation of the Constitution. Free travel in our society has been deemed by legal precedent to be covered by the Bill of Rights. To pretend that our federal government may violate the Bill of Rights whenever and however their whims demand is to pretend we have no Constitution.

[WinkyDink]

21. Cops who frisk don't even touch genitalia, because no gun/bomb/etc. is going to be strapped there.

These "pat-downs" are OBSCENE IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE.

[Swamp Rat]

34. k&r

[Gin]

35. if the fear of underwear bombs was so high after the christmas attempt..

why in the hell did it take 11 months to put it in place....wasn't it dangerous from December/January on?

I smell a rat.

[BlueIris]

52. Rock on, my beloved Roger.

((((( RE )))))

[SeattleGirl]

59. Thank you, Roger!

I do NOT want to be groped in that way, and I would not want to have a job that required me to do said groping.