I put it down to hurt feelings

[canetoad]

I know 99% of this board is American. The latest Wikilieaks have presented the USA in a bad light. IMO the posts denouncing Assange have been a gut reaction in defence of your own country.

Question 1. Had an American citizen published the leaks (ie diplomatic cables), would you be as vehement in your hatred?

In a couple of posts I have seen Assange equated/conflated with Rupert Murdoch. Personally I find this ludicrous. To those who make the comparison, have you ever read the history of Murdoch? He is a man who financially supports whichever political party that will bend laws to accommodate his media empire. He renouced Australian citizenship 25 years ago. Laws concerning media ownership were more lax in the US, hence Murdoch's successful application for US citizenship. Sorry guys, he's officially one of yours now, not our problem.

Question 2. In the grand scheme of things, do you consider Julian Assange to be a greater threat than Rupert Murdoch?

I am an ordinary, bog-standard, tax paying citizen. I also happen to be informed and like - no, demand - to know what my goverment is doing and saying in my name. I happen to believe that only Americans have got their knickers in a twist about these cables because they, in the main, reflect badly on American diplomacy.

Question 3. Should clumsy and inept American diplomatic efforts be exposed?

Given all the above, I ask you to position youself historically. Take note of the fact that you are around when, for the first time when previously classified (secret) documents were released.

Question 4. Do you approve of government and TPTB using any way possible to prevent and more importantly PUNISH the leak of documents.

Assange only leaks stuff that has been volunteered to him. He has positioned himself in such a way that he can make documents public without revealing source. Totally coincidental to the issue is the fact that Bradly Manning 'outed' himself.

Question 6. Punish the messenger?

Those here who condemn Assange need to re-examine their philosophies on the transparencies of life and government in general. You forget your own powers as a taxpayer and a voter and it is time to reclaim both those positions and insist that whatever is done in you name is done in good faith and with total openess and scrutiny.

In closing I refer you to an article written by Associate Professor Ben Saul,co-director of the Sydney Centre for International Law at the University of Sydney and a barrister specialising in security law.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/dont-cry-over-wikileaks-20101201-18glc.html

Evidence of crime, however, may lie elsewhere. The malicious denial-of-service attacks on WikiLeaks should be investigated by Australia as possible offences under Australian law, given that the attacks affected access to the website here. Australia could use its new Cyber Security Centre to track down the perpetrators. The US government is an obvious suspect — and a promising place to start.

[ibegurpard]

1. can't find much to disagree with you about

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. i dont even think that wikileaks has presented america in a bad light

in some of those conditions, i feel that it may have shown the american public how difficult some problems are

for instance, i want the abu ghraib prison closed yesterday, but after reading how much bush and obama have tried to close the place and find places for the inmates to go to, i admit that some problems are more complex then they seem

additionally, a lot of predominantly muslim countries have sounded less than sympathetic toward their own people/prisoners etc.

not all the stuff is terrible, i think some of the stuff shows that some policies are not as easy as we think it is

[canetoad]

3. Good point

I appreciate the difficulty of the job. I also know about not committing to writing ANYTHING that you don't wish to be read.

[OHdem10]

4. I think most of the stuff are things we already had some general

idea that these things happen. Look, I love this
country but I realize our leaders are human beings
just like me. Where there are humans things will happen.
In other words hearing questionable stories does not
change my opinion of my country. I have not understood
some of the hoopla on the right.

[canetoad]

5. You reach the crux of the matter OHdem10

No-one expects you to change your opinion of your country as long as you are aware of what is happening in your name.

It's then up to you to demand a certain standard of those who are paid by your tax dollars.

[canetoad]

6. delete DUPE

[pa28]

7. I'm really surprised at your conclusion.

My reading, on this site at least, points to a majority supporting exposure as well as Assange's work through Wikileaks.

On the other side of the coin a census of his detractors seem to correlate fairly closely with Obama's papal infallibility crew.

[canetoad]

8. Then we are looking at different coins

And I don't think I mentioned the Pope in my OP.

However, what surprises you about the post?

[pa28]

10. Then again we are in very different time zones and it's spring in Australia.

I'll re-phrase. I support Assange and from what I've seen on this board he has the support of most of the participants here.

The right wing in this country is going apeshit over his activities and some of our more vocal "teabag" types have even called for his arrest and execution. I certainly don't see that kind of sentiment on this forum and I don't share that sentiment myself. I'm surprised that you seem to think a meaningful number of people here would share in that hostility.

[canetoad]

12. Just turned summer pa28

and the 15 year drought has broken and I'm fed up with wet dogs steaming up my car cos it's rained non stop for a month. Mustn't complain though, we thought there would be no drinking water this year.

I can't refer you to any particular posts. In general I find DU has been reasonably supportive of Assange. The people who are not are fairly strong in their dissent, calling for all sorts of prosecutions to be wrought on his head.

These posts generally collect a Salem-like following of witch hunters whose position, I don't doubt, will change the moment Wikileaks starts publishing source documents from US banks.

[pa28]

13. Some people call him a traitor.

I'd call him a bold and innovative journalist.

He is an iconclast in the same category as Woodward and Berstein and I'm all for having his back. The comical sex charge he's facing now is probably just the beginning so I'm guessing this story is going to be long and interesting.

[canetoad]

14. Rïng Rïng

Hello vem är det?

Detta är Robert Mueller

Som???

Robert Mueller chef för FBI

Vad kan jag göra för dig Robert? (what can I do for you Robert?)

Sluta publicera skit om Amerika på din blogg, okej? (Stop posting shit about America on your blog, OK?)

[some guy]

9. for myself

1. I neither hate Assange, nor have I expressed anything vehemently regarding wikileaks.

2. I dunno.

3. Yes, I think so.

4. No.

5. You have no question 5. :)

6. No.


:hi:

[canetoad]

11. Yep, I picked up that question 5 thing

My bad but couldn't be bothered changing.

[sabrina 1]

15. I think a majority of people on DU support Assange and don't

believe the ludicrous 'sex' charges against him. They are actually laughable, especially since Wikileaks predicted them as they there threatened in a CIA memo released by Wikileaks.

If you are talking about our media and rabid rightwing, then I agree. The U.S. cannot stand to be criticized, even when the criticism is generated by their own actions. It has become so insular, so removed from the rest of the world that a vast number of Americans think they rule the world and that the world likes it that way.

But, I have a question for you. Your are Australian? What is the position of your government on Assange, you know the U.S. is going to try to get him arrested. Will your government cooperate do you think?

And how about the Australian people. What do they think about him and Wikeleaks?

As for me, I think he is a hero. He is not responsible for the actions of those he exposes. It is the height of irony and hubris, for this government, just exposed as serial spies of allies and enemies alike, to accuse Assange of espionage. It is so ludicrous that I wonder if anyone in the world still takes us seriously.

[canetoad]

16. People I meet

are pretty tickled by his efforts. Keep in mind the cultural & political differences; Oz tends to be a lot more pragmatic about pollies and the parliamentary system tends to prevent the extreme polarisation of right and left you guys experience.

The government? They are making noises but IMO that's about all. I'm pretty sure the US Ambassador has leaned heavily on his Aussie counterpart to encourage our gov. to make a bit of commotion about all this but you need to understand the Aussie psyche. In general we are not anti-American, it's more like we have this big, goofball, bullying brother who is a necessary evil but we wish he would just shut up and sit down.

Personally, Assange is AOK in my book. Times have changed, the world has changed and we live in the early years of the digital age. Everything committed to writing can come back and bite you on the arse and if diplomats don't know that, they should take a course in Modern Communications and Liabilities Thereof.

Edited to add: I now gonna watch a couple of episodes of Spooks to get a grip on reality :)

[live love laugh]

19. Agree. I would ignore the few dissenters in favor of the majority. Right is right. nt

[TexasObserver]

17. A lot of people are terrified of their shadow, and lash out.

The constantly fearful are the reason our country has caved in to fascism. We have too many citizens who are afraid of everything, so they're easily led and manipulated by fear mongers.

Look at the reactions here. Oh, Lawd, Lawd! The end is near!

People who have never seen a classified document before are suddenly experts on them. They're certain the world is coming to an end because Israel found out Turkey doesn't really consider them their BFF.

[canetoad]

18. Good observations

You didn't get your nick for nothing did ya?

My readings indicated that outside the USA, maybe excepting the Guardian which, after all, had prime position on the story, it's really no huge deal. Yep, there are stories in our reputable (non-Murdoch) papers, but nothing bordering on hysteria.

I also bet that most of the content of the cables (with a few exceptions) is already common knowledge and has been hammered out between diplomats and security services.

[seabeyond]

20. i stopped reading your post. it is simple. criminal acts he exposed in past, ok. the crap dump

this last time, bullshit.

lacks integrity, character, responsibility.

he took personal, confidential memos and dumped all in hopes of something there. crap.

it has nothing to do with anything else. it is about integrity