You don't have to be a political Einstein to figure out what is going on..

[WCGreen]

Increasing the deficit by pushing for a huge military and "small government" while cutting revenue through lower taxes, the conservative movement in this country is starving the government.

They want to privatize EVERYTHING. Look at all the mercenaries deployed during the mideast wars that were making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while our troops were making 10 grand. And nary a peep about this in the media, questioned the motives...

They want to privatize everything.

The real result of this is that we the people will have no real say in anything anymore.

Corporate America will control how freedom is meted out.

Everything will be measured on the bottom line.

No social costs will ever be considered.

The world of tomorrow is fast happening.

Keep voting for republicans and their toddies on the so called left and the next war will be brought to you by...

[tabatha]

1. Yep, that is what Bernie understands.

If it happens, then George Bush's desire to privatize SS will succeed.
Maybe, that is why he is keeping his trap mostly shut, because does not want to help it fail.

You know, he did like to blow up creatures as a child.

[laughingliberal]

2. Yep. And Bernie seems to be the only one standing against it. nt

[WCGreen]

4. Sherrod gave an assist....

[laughingliberal]

14. True. He's a good one. nt

[Jakes Progress]

30. Any congressperson not standing with Bernie

is a liar and a fraud. They all know what this will lead to. If they don't stand with Bernie, they are cowards or complicit.

Real progressive leadership would be our president standing beside Bernie in the halls of congress. Instead our "leader" is pushing us in full scale retreat from all progressive ideals.

[valerief]

55. Right. I hate when people say about Congress, "They don't get it," or some version of that.

They ALL understand EVERYTHING. They know just what they're doing. They're just as guilty as a BP exec.

[snappyturtle]

3. Yep....and I'd say public education is on their list for privatization too. nt

[WCGreen]

5. For years now..

[WinkyDink]

18. It's evident and on-going.

[Enthusiast]

90. And traditionally a Republican objective.

Makes you go hmmmmmm.

[Jakes Progress]

31. Led by this administration's ed secretary.

Selling our children for corporate sponsorship.

[laughingliberal]

38. +1000 nt

[valerief]

56. All childs left behind. (Using a Bushian plural there.) nt

[Enthusiast]

89. No question.

It will end up costing more while it becomes less effective. Of course then there will be prayer in school so everything will be wonderful in the minds of the IDiots.

[Nite Owl]

6. This has been their goal for a long

time. They are patient and never give up and now they are succeeding more quickly than even they expected with the help of an accommodating Democratic President. Social Security, Medicare and Education are on the block and very soon.

[Slit Skirt]

61. you are right...

but it took a lot of in-your-face legislation for people to start waking up...10 yrs ago they accused us of being tin-foil

[glinda]

7. And it will all be far more expensive too.

[WCGreen]

8. 25% profit margin...

[Kablooie]

9. Drown America in the corporate bathtub. That's the idea.

It has nothing to do with creating jobs.

[RegieRocker]

10. K & R

[madmax]

11. Anyone else beginning to feel

completely and totally powerless to stop this train wreck?

A few months ago I had resigned myself to the fact that what's wrong with this country is akin to Stage IV cancer. We're terminal but, I hadn't realized that it's immanent - perhaps even in my lifetime. And hell, I'm no spring chicken.

[jwirr]

49. I often feel that way. I have read the 4 scenarios for the collapse of

the world economy (empire) and wonder how this, climate change and oil depletion will play out in this takeover. Corporations are pretty much oil based in their philosophy so that may take them down as well. Climate change will just limit the territory they control. I don't know who is big enough to fight back. I think Wikileak and the kids in EU who are supporting it are trying. We will have to see.

[Ticonderoga]

66. Ah c'mon Mr. Zappa

You're just a youngin, sir.

[unapatriciated]

12. I think looting is a better word

[pa28]

13. The long term regressive trends are disturbing but the direction of post-election policy is worse.

President Obama was fond of telling us the story of the car that ran into the ditch during the recent election season. If you listened to his stump speeches you know the one I'm talking about. It was a good story but now it looks like we're cooperating with the Republican's regressive agenda instead of fighting over the controls.

We've got the car in reverse and the ditch behind us means austerity, a Japanese style lost decade and eventually privatization.

If you want to have a good look at what privatization means I'd suggest an excellent documentary on the economic collapse in Argentina. It's a good cautionary tale.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4353655982817317115#

[Hannah Bell]

17. japan's "lost decade" didn't have 10% unemployment.

[pa28]

20. The "lost decade" is beginning to look like a good outcome for us. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

22. reportedly, it wasn't so bad. the one thing that apparently did happen was an increased %

of so-called "casual" labor (labor without guarantees of specific hours, benefits, etc.)

[shanti]

21. argentina

was the trial balloon. we're nexxxxxt.

[DemReadingDU]

24. It's Disaster Capitalism - Naomi Klein: Shock Doctrine

[immune]

32. More about Argentina's collapse and how they dealt with it.

Argentina's RGT(Red Global de Trueque), is the biggest barter club network in the whole world with well over one million participants throughout Argentina. And the number of participants is growing rapidly as each day dawns in 2002.

http://www.cyberclass.net/argentina.htm

[pa28]

35. Must have bookmark.

Well worth it to spend some quality time going through the archives.

:thumbsup:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. A BIG K&R

[demwing]

16. Troops make 10 grand? Nope!

Basic pay for an E1 (lowest level Private) on active duty (not counting bonus, allowances, and other benefits) ia $17,333.

It's the "other benefits" that are the kickers.

Housing
Food
Medical
Clothing
Education

These easily bump a 17,000 salary into the mid to high 30K range. Not nearly the money that civilians make, I agree. But no where near the 10K figure you called out either.

[WinkyDink]

19. Nowhere near dying for, either.

[demwing]

26. I think that people "die for their country". The real question is this -

1s $35 thousand per year enough to KILL for?

[WCGreen]

23. Thank you...

I don't know anyone in the serving in the armed forces but when I did, they made about what a low level factory worker would make.

The thread just came to me and I wrote it.

Thanks for setting me straight but you did get the gist of what I meant. The pay discrepancy is very, very, very, very large...

[demwing]

27. I agree with you

and hope I didn't sound snarky. Nice post!

[hobbit709]

25. Beats the hell out of the $64 I got twice a month back when.

But it's still cheap compared what they are asking the troops to do.

[demwing]

28. That's it, right?

whats the price you put on killing?

[hobbit709]

29. I don't put a price on killing.

If that's all you think the military does, you're mistaken.

[demwing]

33. You may not, but someone does

and those that do are much more highly placed in the command change than you or I.

If you don't think that the reason we go to war is economically driven, then YOU'RE mistaken.

[hobbit709]

37. WTF? Where did you get that idea from anything I said?

[Poboy]

34. I recommend because I agree.

[mdmc]

36. r

71

[me b zola]

39. K&R

[newspeak]

40. I agree!

The robber barons are back big time on the world stage. So, if fascism is government and business against the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. When behemoth, sociopathic corporations no longer need government, just corporations ruling the world, what would it be called? Reminds me of the film "Brazil."

Many people don't realize the the "free market" concept is bullcrap. As if these mega corporations could do any wrong, as if they'll be shut down for anything. And if they do get shut down, they just arise from the ashes like a Phoenix, with a different name after murdering or bamboozling or poisoning-harming people in some way for a buck. The government can do some services better while providing a decent income to employees. And, privatizing can cost more while giving consumers or the government shitty service-while the people get less representation.

Also, it opens the door to more corruption between our government and business. Like the judge who was caught getting money for putting juveniles in a private facility, or like the private prison system in arizona where apparently money influences the political body. So, interesting that the two escapes in Arizona both came from a private facility.

I don't trust a corporation getting contracts to provide national security or services to our soldiers. They are only interested in their own profit and interest. I think some of them would sell us out in a heartbeat.

[EC]

41. And with any privitizing...

everything will be done on the cheap...cheapest materials and cheapest employee base. Whatever they can cheapen they will...the walmartization of government....(mercenary pay will be going down too, as more sign up when it's the only job available as in our industry base now)desperate workers create cheaper pay...

[newspeak]

42. yes.

To me, the solution is strip personhood away from corporations. The individuals in the corporation have personhood, but the corporation itself does not. The individuals have the same rights and privileges as other individuals; however, they also must accept the same consequences. If you, as an individual, under a corporation knowingly poison a community's water supply and the residence become sick and some die, you should expect the same consequences as an individual who knowingly poisoned the water supply to kill people. Not this shite where you may after long litigation give some of your precious profits to people who were harmed, and yet, you are still allowed to exist to further damage others.

Also, a "well regulated commerce"-corporations should be well regulated so that they are not allowed to harm or bamboozle others for the sake of the almighty dollar.

[MissDeeds]

43. Agreed

Your last sentence says it all. True leftists stand firmly against the policies described in the OP. Just claiming to be a Democrat doesn't necessarily make it so.

[kentuck]

44. Bingo!

You got it, WC.

[Imagevision]

45. And you forgot the New World Order is calling the shots these days...

[leeroysphitz]

46. 100 rec get

[obxhead]

47. It's happening with our schools as well. I'm convinced it was what

they were thinking with HCR as well now that the new law firmly locks the broken privatized system in place.

[L. Coyote]

48. Breaking up the USA means taking over all federal lands, 50% of the country up for grabs

and all the mineral wealth that includes!!

[Goldstein1984]

50. So what are we going to do about it?

Vote?

:rofl:

[guruoo]

51. It's the Confederacy, reborn. nt

[COLGATE4]

52. I'm inescapably drawn to the conclusion that the Democratic Party

so many of us grew up with and cherished, the party of FDR, the New Deal, The Civil Rights Movement etc. is dead and gone. In its place is the 'new', DLC Democratic Party that is essentially Republican Lite. They and the Republicans are both equally active acolytes of the Military-Industrial complex and share the same fundamental view of the role of government towards its most vulnerable citizens - "either work or die". We can try and dress it up any way we choose, but looking at the facts in the cold light of day leads me to that conclusion. I don't see a nickle's worth of difference between the two now. In the U.S. Senate, out of 100 Senators only one, the 'Socialist' Bernie Sanders sounds like, talks like and thinks like what I believed a true Democrat to be. So, we're outnumbered 99 to 1.

[movingviolation]

63. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winnaar!!!

I whole-heartedly agree! It makes me sick to my stomach and heart.:mad: :mad: :mad: :banghead:

[BrklynLiberal]

69. The sad truth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9760371

[Enthusiast]

92. But this has not dawned

on most of the American people yet. They just don't see it because the illusion is being maintained and nurtured.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." — Frank Zappa

[Hell Hath No Fury]

109. I agree completely.

:(

[WiffenPoof]

53. And...

...they want to starve the beast. Starve all social programs.

-PLA

[The_Commonist]

54. They won't be happy until someone...

...gets to make a profit charging us for air.
They've already gotten us to drink water out of little plastic bottles, at a HUGE markup.
Air is next.
And fuck everything else, if there's no profit to be had...

[Slit Skirt]

58. they are already raping the planet for water and trading it on the stock market

Everyone needs to see the documentary Blue Gold

http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/

[rasputin1952]

57. We are devolving into a society that will have the "Landed Gentry", and everyone else....

for the R's that consistently bring up the "Founders", they are in direct opposition of everything said "Founders" stood for. The current GOP assholes are little more than the Tories of Revolution. They would love to install a king and destroy this nation. Their idea is simple, "we know better" and history has shown us that R ideology is little more than a route to failure. bush, Reagan and the current crop of goomers are nothing more than slaves to the dollars they can collect from the elite. I am always amazed that these people are ever elected...voters are voting directly against their best interests, and the payment will be servitude to a party that has as it's only goal, the destruction of the nation.

[liberation]

60. Technically most of the founders were of the Landed Gentry persuasion...

[rasputin1952]

67. Yes...

but they had the temerity to look forward as to how things might turn out. The BoR's was never included in the original document, and not until the 14th Amendment(Ratified 7/9/1868) were there changes that allowed all male citizens over 21 years of age to vote w/o being landowners. Not until the 20th Amendment, (Ratified 8/18/1920) were women permitted to vote across the nation, (some states allowed women to vote in statewide elections).

Most of the Founders were merchants that believed in the power of Free Enterprise as well, the "corporatists" of the time, but they knew things would change, hence, the ability to create what we call a "living" document.

Many things about the original document are hard to digest these days, the horrors of slavery being defined and the idea that a slave was 3/5's of a person, was a lousy compromise to get Southern states to ratify the document, at the same time, there was a provision to stop the importation of slaves in 1808. At the time, the Founders were treading on new ground, fortunately, the had some wisdom in how the Constitution would be seen later, (one of the reasons it is a relatively simple document as well, in fact, I see the simplicity as the genius behind the Constitution).

People that scare the hell out me are those who claim to want to go back to the "original", it was flawed from the beginning; can you imagine no Bill of Rights?

[bobbolink]

73. I can not only "imagine no Bill Of Rights'...when you are poor enough, it is a mirage.

[liberation]

84. True

But my point is that people tend to project onto the founding fathers all sorts of characteristics that have nothing to do with the actual reality of who the founding fathers were.

Their biggest contribution, as you said, is making the constitution a "living" document. But chances are that if the founding fathers were alive today, many of them would consider that a "bug" and not a "feature" ;-)

The true greatness of this country, is that some of its people stood for what was right and made this a better place, sometimes in spite of what the founding fathers had stood for originally.

[bobbolink]

72. Aw, come on now... Feudalism is FUN!

:shrug:

[rasputin1952]

83. At least one can curry favor from thier masters...

and hopefully move from a grass hut to a stone one...or get a job as the "pissboy" or spit turner...best thing is, one need not worry about SS anymore, as cholera or typhus would thin the population rapidly. A good round of the Plague break the system though :D

[liberation]

85. Most of the acolytes of Capitalism...

... don't grasp the concept that "capitalism" was the system developed to replace "feudalism."

Most people take for granted the pyramidal structures of many social and economic organizations in our society. But they don't make the connection of the similarities between the organization of an olde time county and a modern corporation, for example.

Feudalism never really went away, it was supplanted by capitalism. Note that other "isms" do have a similar set of flaws.

[Enthusiast]

97. Fun and profitable!

[liberation]

59. Even most human interactions in this country...

... are being reduced down to economic transactions for some people.

[guzzie]

62. People have to stop thinking in Nationalistic

terms, corporations do not operate in nations, they are supra-national entities - thats why they do not pay taxes.

They have freedom to travel to any country, operate in any country, make profit and pay no taxes - they beholden only to the global system of economics.

Citizens on the other hand are directly beholden - WHY IS THIS SO ? Simple - citizens represent only their labor value - hence corporations are able to
shop around for the cheapest labor in any market they wish - while the citizen can only operate within their nation. The fight against organised unions and labor
is the true struggle of the past thousand years - tell me why metals can move around the world seeking the highest price, why capital can move around seeking the highest price, why there are rules preventing commodity dumping to preserve market share, but labor - the only thing people have to offer is restricted ? Unless you are part of the corporate elite ?

The upshot is that corporations are free to move and do as they please - meaning western citizens are now competing against chinese and indians to sell their labor (engineers, software, manufacturing etc) meaning the middle class income - that which builds a western nation, is being destroyed to create a global impoverished workforce which is powerless against global corporate interests.

The solution is simple - labor needs a price - there needs to be anti-dumping legislation on labor - meaning that goods produced in a country with labour that does not meet a minimum wage standard should be taxed to meet that standard - this is what happens on EVERY OTHER MARKET - hence producing tvs, shoes in China would be too expensive and jobs would return to US - along with a balance of trade etc.

The fight is not against corporations - it is within our selves - for generations people have stood up and fought for their rights, Reagan and Thatcher destroyed this fight - destroyed this spirit - and now people are just lying down like lazy dogs in the street and blaming the corporations and government - when in fact it is us who has become obsequious pusillanimous cowards - if there is no fight - there is no reward.

The very, very worst kind of advice the left seems so willing to hand out is passive, peaceful resistance - its absolute crap. Turn the other cheek and they will simply see you for the weak wet rag you are, stand up. Seriously STAND UP !

[WiffenPoof]

64. There Are So Many Things To Be Frightened Of...

However, the one thing that scares the shit out of me are the private armies.

First, I have no idea how many people comprise these armies. Secondly, they are under the direction of private owners (for the most part).

Just who do you think they are going to be loyal to when push comes to shove....Us? Not hardly.

These are ready-made forces that could easily be ordered against us...the people.

-PLA

[guzzie]

77. I did a double masters in International Relations - Cotnemporary Political

Theory at the Centre for Study of Democracy - Westminster University and wrote my Dissertation on mercenaries and private armies.

Try to remember that it is the historical NORM for armies to be private - it was really only the rise of Napoleon and then the modern 21st century standing army that saw citizens
as soldiers - private mercenaries are the norm. They still guard the Vatican.

The consequence of civilian armies was the great wars (WW1 WW2) - the darkest days of humanity. But history is not linear (Foucault) - so what will become of modern private militaries - well as we return to feudalism (global corporations) we will see them operating as they do in Africa already (Nigeria, Sudan, Congo, Seira leone, etc, etc) operating on behalf of corporations- ALREADY BEEN HAPPENING for 50 years.

What my work focused on was not simply the outsourcing to private entities - but he outsourcing to non-human entities - robots. If you knew - if you had one small inkling of where autonomous robotic warfare was ALREADY AT you would shake in your boots. These things are already advanced to the stage of autonomous - NEGOTIATED - decision making and amongst themselves and co-ordinated responses. They are in the sea, the air, the land and space. Right now. By 2018 full artificial intelligence will be full functional and deployed which is faster, more accurate and entirely self operating and will be in place on the battle field - that is artificial intelligence with autonomous robotic warriors - this includes a fully functional replacement for the current standard soldier - yes an android. This is not hear say, conspiracy fantasy but direct from the military leader ship itself - by 2020 at the latest but realistic projections put it around 2017 - 2018.

Please read Wired for War by Peter Singer for SOME IDEA of how far advanced the military is with autonomous - non human directed - robotic warfare - absolutely terrifying to the very core. Sky net (yes they actually called it that) has been functioning for some time and directs much of the robotic warfare in Pakistan. At the start of the Iraq war there were around 150 robots - there are now well over 200,000 robots deployed by the us alone.

And you are worried about a corporation with a military (what the hell do you think the East India Company was ????) - try a corporation operating its own satellite controlled artificial intelligence autonomous robotic army - already happening. Right now.

We are so fcked its not funny.

[immune]

108. + 1000

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it."
Patrick Henry

[WiffenPoof]

112. You Just Scared The....

...shit out of me. I need to learn more...soon.

-PLA

[bobbolink]

65. "Keep voting for republicans "

Oh, for crying in a bucket.

Find a different tune!

People here didn't vote for republicans, yet "The world of tomorrow is fast happening" with a Democratic president and Democratic Congress.

These lectures are "fast becoming" not only tiresome, but counter-productive.

[Skittles]

70. we sure as fuck didn't vote for DEMOCRATS

REAL PROGRESSIVES wouldn't be aiding and abetting this destruction of America

[bobbolink]

71. Well, damn! You got me on that one.

I don't think that's what the poster had in mind, but...dang, STOP BEING SO RIGHT! :rofl: :hi:

[WCGreen]

74. Perhaps I was speaking to the country as a whole...

Not everything I think of and write is DU specific...

[bobbolink]

76. Then maybe it would be prudent to be more clear.

Given the constant attacks on "liberals" here on DU, it would seem obvious to make sure who the target it and not leave it ambiguous.

Of course, as someone else pointed out to me, in fact, we DID elect Republicans. :(

[mrarundale]

105. They are both the same

good cop bad cop back and forth as both become more and more pro corporate

[bobbolink]

106. It would be refreshing to have a good cop for a while.

:shrug:

[BrklynLiberal]

68. K&R

[Myrina]

75. ... they don't want it privatized, they want it GONE.

Back to the days of the industrial revolution/sweatshops and 60 hour workweeks for the masses who live in squalor, and fat-cat cash and power for the owners.

[senseandsensibility]

80. They only want it gone

after they have squeezed every single cent they can make out of it. By then it will be destroyed.

[amborin]

78. K&R

[sendero]

79. As if..

... voting for Obama has slowed that down at all. If anything, it has accelerated it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

81. First they came for the Unions...

...then they slashed government, and by the time people woke up to the danger there was no one left with the power to resist the multi-national coorporations.

[OwnedByFerrets]

82. Sorry, but Corporate Amerika already rules the roost.

[IMATB]

86. I live near a few military people

active duty and retired.

They are very well paid. The housing allowance is $1200 a month. From young to old, depending on how long you've been in to what rank, they all live in nice houses and drive nice cars. Some own 3 or more vehicles.

It's not uncommon to see service people here living in $180,000 to $300,000 homes. Maybe even more expensive houses if the spouse is enlisted too.

My neighbor is 22 and lives in a brand new home, has two brand new vehicles. Wife does not work. He's been in 4 years. They don't seem to be hurting for anything.

[Moostache]

87. This is why a general consumer strike for a minimum of 90 to 180 days is needed.

Corporations lifeblood is profits....ever INCREASING profits. Pull your money out of the banks. Take yourself and your families out of the machine. The apparatus of the state is being assembled and controlled to prevent ACTIVE resistance to this mess; however, their central assumption remains that we - the people, the unwashed masses in their eyes; that we are going to endlessly take it and keep on buying.

Maybe we need to flex our true power, show these corporations one sector of the economy at a time, that they SERVE us and our NEEDS - we do NOT NEED TO SERVE THEIRS!

[ProudDad]

88. "so called left"

You mean the near-right-wing of the Corporate War Party?

The ones calling themselves "Democrats"?

[maritzasolito]

91. Vote Repuke and move on!!!

[rucky]

Privatizing costs even more money.

You have to pay for the service + the profit + what's kept under the table.

[rucky]

93. Privatizing costs even more money.

You have to pay for the service + the profit + what's kept under the table.

[Lorien]

94. Yep. What Enron did to California

I have a friend in Glendale who pays over $900.00 a month for her "privatized" electricity. She never runs and air conditioner or her furnace, and she's had the city out three times to see if anything was amiss. Nope, that's just what the privatized utility company chose to charge her. Not as bad as her neighbor, who pays over $1,200 a month...

[Javaman]

95. You just got the memo?

this has been going on for the past 30 years.

It's only now that the final hours of complete corporate control is upon us.

it took two bankrupting wars to bring the last peaces together.

[Dinger]

96. Kick $ Rec # 196 (nt)

[leftstreet]

98. K&R

[DeadEyeDyck]

99. We need to rip this nation in half

We need states that are anti-war and believe in social justice and equality and let the other states live as they want. They can cancel SS. pass Fair tax laws and have everyone run around with guns on their hips. Them when anyone whines, we can just point to that place and say, "there you go". W\

[bertman]

100. You nailed it, WCGreen. REC. nt

[DeadEyeDyck]

101. K&R

[sirthomas66]

102. I'm voting 3rd Party this time unless Obama is primaried and the

challenger wins. I can't vote for ANY Democrat who begins the defunding of Social Security.

[SocialistLez]

103. Starving the beast.

It's been coming for some time.

[mrarundale]

104. "We the people" has become "we the corporations"

I don't know how we can get it back. Evil has a lot of power.

[immune]

107. Kick

Too late to recommend, although this is an important OP with the best commentary I've come across in a long while on any forum. Depressing though it may be.

[Marr]

110. You know what really kills me? Privatization of government services is the ULTIMATE

form of "redistribution of wealth", which is a kind of cardinal sin, I'm told. It's handing tax dollars directly to corporate fatcats.

[blindpig]

111. That's Capitalism for ya.

As long as we tolerate it that's what we get.