Does it bother you that the Obama administration is spouting Republican BS to smear Democrats?

[Karmadillo]

First, as Democrats have always argued, the restoration of tax cuts is not a tax increase. Second, as Bernie Sanders eloquently pointed out, UC benefits would be extended regardless of the fate of the tax cuts. And third, didn't we hear the "you better vote for this or the world will end" shock doctrine when the Bush administration was lobbying for the much unneeded bankster bailout?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/obama-aide-senate-will-save-tax-cut-plan/1

Obama aide: Senate will save tax cut plan

<edit>

In addition, all the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year, Axelrod noted -- so if Congress does nothing, everyone's taxes will rise.

"I think every single person in that building does not want taxes to go up on January 1st, does not want to see 2 million people lose their unemployment insurance," Axelrod said on ABC's This Week. Everybody understands what the implications for the economy would be ... I believe that there will be a coming together around it."

more...

[polichick]

1. Sure, they now have zero credibility. nt

[molly77]

97. It bothers me that my country is fascist

and that WE still think elections make any difference. Bill Clinton out pushing the latest criminal legislation for the banksters. Obama looked amused and left the party early. LOL. I still love my president...

[katnapped]

2. Next they'll be saying

"Go along or you're no better than the terrorists!"

[Toucano]

3. Absolutely it does.

If he wants Independents so much, maybe he should become one.

[silver10]

4. I second that!

[AndrewP]

6. I third that

[Smashcut]

28. Fourth

Do you notice he rarely (if ever) actually refers to himself as a Democrat?

Why do you think that is?

[Echotrail]

88. Before now, a president has never changed parties in office

But we have seen it. Even if it isn't official.

[PhillySane]

105. Bush Policies Still Strong

read this article
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/13/zelizer.george.w.bush/index.html?hpt=T1

I'm not really sure he ever was a Democrat. How much has really changed in the last two years?

[JoePhilly]

5. Lots of DU folks do the same thing.

As for the statement above, the experience of the middle class will be that of a tax increase. And the media will make sure that's how it gets framed.

And they will say that Obama broke his promise to not raise taxes on those making under $250,000 ... they will juxtapose video of Obama making that promise with video of GHW Bush saying "read my lips, no new taxes."

Count on it.

[Bluerthanblue]

24. you get it.

:hi:

[OhioBlue]

47. exactly. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

54. Once again, the voice of reason!! n/t

[Egnever]

60. Nailed it.

:applause:

[That Guy 888]

73. So the President should be a puppet of the media?

Part of playing chess (three-dimensional or otherwise) is anticipating how your opponent will react to your actions. I haven't seen a Democratic plan for dealing with our 4-6 member media cartel.

Capitulation is not a strategy.

[JDPriestly]

87. The Democrats had control of the Senate and the House for two

years and did nothing about the media cartel. Why should they? Who do you think put Obama where he is?

[Davis_X_Machina]

7. Objection, your Honor...

...compound question.

[laughingliberal]

8. Yes. It bothers me. And putting off dealing with this ensured it would be an 'emergency.'

There were 2 years to do something about extending the middle class tax cuts. It's not like anyone just now woke up and realized the tax cuts were expiring.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. 100% correct. There was no good reason why these two issue should have been linked.

Tax cuts, and the unemployment extension - which does not even cover the 99ers - should NEVER have been part of the same deal.

If those on unemployment are "hostages" for the tax cuts for the rich, they were delivered with a big red ribbon to the repukes by this administration.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. it wasn't only "this administration"- it was our Democratic reps as

well. I find some of those who are pounding their chests now, and pointing at the WH to be pretty hypocritical.

Check this out- there's plenty of 'blame' to go around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=559655&mesg_id=559655

[laughingliberal]

19. I'm just as pissed at Congress for kicking this down the road during the election.

Even that was pretty last minute shit. As I said, everyone knew 2010 was coming.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. there's plenty of blame to go around, it bothers me that so many

people are choosing to focus solely on the WH- when many of the Dem legislators who are crying "foul" now, are equally responsible for this mess. If by "this administration" you are including the house and senate members then I understand what you are saying. They need to own this problem as well, and stop just playing 'outraged' imo.

:hi:

[laughingliberal]

26. The WH is solely to blame in my mind for the payroll tax holiday. I have no doubt that could have...

been left out and a deal still brokered. This is a set up.

:hi:

[truedelphi]

29. Yep, it sure is a set up. And

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

17. you do realize that many of those who are complaining didn't do

squat to ensure that this WAS dealt with don't you?

The WH shouldn't hold all the blame for this. FrenchieCat posted an excellent glimpse into this yesterday.
if you didn't catch it- check it out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=559655&mesg_id=559655

[laughingliberal]

22. I'm well aware the conservadems in Congress share the blame. It should have been dealt with...

in 2009.

[JDPriestly]

93. Obama may secretly favor the privatization of all pensions

Obama is supposed to be leading the Democratic Party including the Democratic caucus.

He is getting what he wants. His Fed Chair, Bernanke has given away huge amounts of money to banks. As for the claim that the banks paid the government back for the bail-out. No. The banks "invested" that money so that the government would pay them and then out of the money they "earned" from the government with the interest the government paid to them, the banks "paid back" the bail-out. It was not entirely but to a great extent for show. The banks want to get their hands on the Social Security money so they can make it "grow" into their pockets instead of the pockets of the people who earned the money.

Obama does what his banker friends want and fools the American people about what is going on.

Can Axelrod count? Can Obama count? I wonder how these guys did in grade school on their math problems. Remember those, where you have to figure things out that involve numbers. I ask because these economic policies make no sense. I think the Obama administration has been taken to the cleaners and with them, the American people.

I guess you don't have to be good at math to get into politics. As long as you can get someone to keep track of your campaign fundraising, you are set to go.

[Hannah Bell]

57. exactly; the same high-pressure tactics sales people use, in a way.

they create a pressure situation: "only 15 minutes to act on this offer or you lose your chance forever!"

the reason to wait & then combine the extensions for the rich with UE is exactly the same.

false choice, high-pressure sales tactics.

with salesmen if you call their bluff they'll grab your arm when you're getting up to leave.

but we have this illusion that our leaders are something better than sleazy car salesmen, and that citizens are something better than marks to be played.

[Little Star]

77. It's sorta like the blue light special that Kmart use to have. n/t

[Divernan]

82. Excellent analogy

[Sherman A1]

66. Precisely

[BrklynLiberal]

9. The repukes are so good at framing the message, that even the Dems in the White House

are using the repuke phraseology. Very, very sad..to say the least.

The repukes are still playing chess, while most of the Dems, it seems, are still playing checkers.

In the really successful scams, it is vital that the mark does not even realize he has been scammed until it is way too late to do anything.

[Divernan]

102. Whoever frames the issue will win the debate.

[Jakes Progress]

10. Bothers? Yes. Surprise? No.

[donheld]

49. +1000

[DirkGently]

11. That's worrying. We don't need to hear the GOP take on the world from this administration.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi

Their attacks on the left and collaboration with the right show their weakness.

[ladjf]

14. Yes. I am beginning to feel as though the WH is our enemy. That's

a terrible feeling. If the WH is against you, who is on our side?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladjf]

37. I agree. It is now obvious that he is a conservative somewhat in the

camp of the Reaganites. He knew then while he was busy misrepresenting himself in his campaign speeches. Yes, we have been sold a bill of goods and our situation is totaling in a state of collapse. We'll be lucky to be able to run a viable candidate for President as early 2016.

I feel particularly bad for African Americans. They we so thrilled, and justifiably so, that an African American was elected President. And now, by his lack of leadership, he has hurt the chances for future African Americans who might aspire to the office of President.

The Democrats only hope is to not allow him to run in 2012. But, even that probably won't achieve the election of a Democrat, no matter who the candidate might be.

[Divernan]

96. I agree - he has hurt the chances of future African American candidates.

And it must be far harder for African Americans to face the reality of his misrepresentations, than it is for us others who worked so hard for and donated our hard-earned money to his primary and final campaigns.

I recall in particular, Velma Hart, the black woman (a middle class wife, mother, and veteran) who told him in a public meeting, and in a dignified manner, she was sick to death of having to defend him. She subsequently was fired from her job as CFO of a Maryland veterans' support group.

I particularly respect the comments of DUers of any race who continued to defend Obama and gave him every possible rationale for his actions for over a year, until they, one by one, added everything up and reluctantly started evaluating and critiquing him just like they would any other president. Obama should respect them as well.

[ProudDad]

44. Two words, "Larry Summers"

That's all I needed to know about Obama's impending "economic" policies... :nuke:

And that was during the "transition"... (in quotes because it was apparently seamless)...

[JDPriestly]

94. Did anyone else see a recent article suggesting that Larry Summers'

advice is still being heeded?

Commenting on the extension deal President Obama made with Republican leaders -- an agreement that has drawn strong opposition from Democrats -- Summers told reporters Wednesday that "failure to pass this bill in the next couple weeks would materially increase the risk that the economy would stall out and we would have a double-dip" recession.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/09/larry-summers-failure-to-approve-tax-cut-deal-could-deepen-rece/?asid=7be677df

[Bluerthanblue]

15. no, because it isn't true-

there is no intent to "smear Democrats" in any of this- that's your take on it. It's fine to advocate letting the tax-cuts expire. Personally, I'd like them to, but there are many who want the middle class ones to be extended.

As for the fact that peoples taxes WOULD go up if they do- you can parse that however you like- but the American public isn't going to understand or remember that the REASON for the increase isn't that "Obama raised our taxes" but that the 'Bush Tax Cuts' were allowed to expire.

There are legitimate things to be disturbed about- and to speak out on, we don't need to go around making them up.

:shrug:

[blackspade]

104. Taxes go up either way.

Without the deal, everyone goes up including the rich, which helps in the long run by increasing revenue.
With this deal, it increases taxes on the poorest Americans (those making less than 20,000), blows a huge hole in the deficit, makes SS vulnerable to budget tampering (via the payroll tax 'holiday'), and Protects the estates of the richest families in America.
This deal is a republican dream.

[stillwaiting]

16. Why, yes. Yes it does. (nt)

[madrchsod]

20. yes it does...

i figured if he got half of what he promised it would be good. i did`t expect the half would be for the republican demands.


oh well,he`s better than the other guys.

[ProudDad]

45. Actually an anlysis of the capitulation shows that

republicans got 2/3...

"our side" got 1/3...



On edit: Pretty damn good for this group so far... :eyes:

[amborin]

21. yes right wing bilge & scare tactics (but it was candidate Obama, who lobbied for TARP

in fall of 2008; it was Obama who manned the phones and pressured senators to approve TARP)

[rusty fender]

25. You betcha!

and it makes me :puke:

[democrank]

27. I`d like to hear what

Paul Wellstone would say about this. Bet it wouldn`t be pretty.

[dgibby]

31. My dream dinner party guests:

Paul Wellstone,George Carlin, Molly Ivans, Ann Richards, Rachael, Keith, Howard Zinn, Ted Kennedy. I'm sure there's more. Feel free to add your favorites.

[tomg]

99. Seriously, I love your

list. I would add Bernie Sanders and Paul Krugman, and since the deceased are there, I would add FDR, MLK, Michael Harrington and Dorothy Day. And, of course, President Obama. The guy needs to hang out with a better class of people than the ones he currently does.

[dgibby]

106. Thanks! Those are all great additions.

I meant to put Elizabeth Warren on it, too, as well as Rosa Parks, JFK, RFK, and Teddy. Grayson and Weiner would be good,too.

[tomg]

109. I don't know if you remember

or are old enough to remember - I am 61 - a show called Meeting of the Minds where four or five historical figures would get togther and talk. It was hosted by Steve Allen (a good liberal) on PBS. Your dinner sounds like that, so I'll add Emma Goldman, Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger.

I guess what we are saying is that progressives have a history and a tradition and a lot of civil rights, anti-war, glbt, feminist, environmental, labor, and other activists went before him. He needs to listen, not only to progressives in congress and in the grass roots right now, but to all the people who went before him.

typo:

[Poboy]

30. It creates great discomfort. Thank you for asking.-nt

[unc70]

32. Obama began his campaign using RW TPs against Dems. Little changed since

Here is a post (from my journal) from Jan 2008, discussing how Obama began his campaign attacking Dems with RW talking points. Not that much changed.

"We discussed ages ago (pre Iowa) how Obama uses RW TPs to attack other Dems"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4026846&mesg_id=4030998

[GeorgeGist]

33. Not any more ...

they're just Whores.

[Quixote1818]

34. It just does more damage to our cause. How could it not bother me! nt

[whathehell]

35. Yes and Hell Yes. n/t

[pleah]

38. K&R

[Time for change]

39. It most certainly does

[Enthusiast]

40. It bothers me when they

spout Republican BS just to achieve an objective- like cuts to social security and medicare.

[ProudDad]

41. Yes K&R

But again, I expect this right-wing BS to pass in the House and Senate...

And be signed into law by Obama...

The rich and corporate win again...

[BzaDem]

42. You are wrong on all three points. If you "restore" tax rates to a HIGHER amount than they are today

that is an increase by definition.

in·crease (n-krs)
v. in·creased, in·creas·ing, in·creas·es
v.intr.
1. To become greater or larger.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/increased

Second, UC benefits would NOT have been extended for 13 months. They might have been extended for a month (so the Republicans could claim "we got them through Christmas), with an expiration later.

Third, yes, we did hear the world would end if there were no bailout. But it wasn't just Bush saying it. It was Paul Krugman, Brad Delong, and other progressive economists. That's why the percentage of Democrats voting for the bailout was FAR more than the percentage of Republicans. The only people who think the economy wouldn't have collapsed if there were no bailout are people who are ignorant about economics.

[Hannah Bell]

58. not if the cuts were expressly passed as TEMPORARY ONES SCHEDULED TO RETURN

TO NORMAL.

[Egnever]

61. .

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

63. rolling smiley people are the comment of people who have no argument.

The fact is that Bush's tax cuts were passed as temporary ones, explicitly.

Indeed, that was how they got them passed.

[BzaDem]

70. I don't care if they were schedule to last one year. If one's taxes are X on one date, and X+a on

a future date, where a is a positive number, than that person's taxes have increased.

Just because an increase was scheduled in advance doesn't mean it isn't an increase. You act like an increase is only an increase when you don't know about it in advance.

[TBF]

86. That is just inane. You can try to nitpick until you're blue in the face,

but we can see what is happening here. This administration is continuing where Mr. Bush and his thugs left off.

[rhett o rick]

101. To continue to argue about the definition is absurd. The real question is whether the country can

afford the cost of continuing the current tax rates. If we cant keep the super-wealthy from stealing $800 billion now, then they will be back tomorrow for another $800 billion.

YOU CANT DEAL WITH BLACKMAILERS. They wont keep their end of the bargain.

[galileoreloaded]

84. To be fair, NORMAL for income taxes when first instituted was 1%...

just saying.

[Hannah Bell]

108. on the top 1% only

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

95. Not passing this bill would mean returning to the tax rates of the Clinton years.

Those rates worked well. We would be in better economic shape if we had stayed with the Clinton rates.

Let's just go back to them. Maybe we wouldn't need so much money for UC benefits if we returned to the Clinton tax rates.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Edweird]

46. It bothers me that they are spouting RW BS for any reason at all.

[QC]

48. I'm tired of seeing the likes of Ingraham, Krauthammer, and Sully being used to attack liberals.

It's as though the president's diehards never think to consider what it means that they have to resort to quoting fascists and red-baiting liberals to defend him.

[totodeinhere]

50. UC benefits would be extended regardless of the fate of the tax cuts?

Are you sure about that? And even if they were extended w/o the tax cuts, it could have been for a much shorter period. Originally, the GOP was talking about three months. The Obama Administration as a part of the compromise got them to agree to 13 months.

[obxhead]

51. It doesn't bother me

It outrages me! :grr:

[Skittles]

52. it bothers only the thinking Democrats

it bothers us a LOT

[Individualist]

53. Hear, hear!

[defendandprotect]

55. Greatly bothers me .... so does the fact that we've got two more years of this --!!

[peace frog]

85. More than that

We have two more years of the same ol'/same ol' from Obama, and who knows how many years thereafter when the repukes take over.
The very thought is nauseating. God help us.

[defendandprotect]

107. Obviously, all of this needs a lot of discussion ... but

also obviously, we have to stop voting TPB candidates into office --

Obama is a clear sign of that --

We have a huge liberal/progressive voting bloc -- we have to decide what

to do with it to move government to the left --

and to disconnect elites/corporates from their control over govenrment --

Was thinking about all of this and realized that FDR's NEW DEAL was actually

a tremendous stimulus to the economy because it sidelined capitalism's

corrupts and criminality for a time. Put us in a more normal framework of

an economy -- so we can see how we would thrive very well without capitalism

bringing us down regularly with "crashes" disguised to hide their crimes and

financial coups.

Every nation would be thriving free from this cancer of capitalism!!


:)

[DeadEyeDyck]

56. yepper

[AlbertCat]

59. implications for the economy would be

Yeah! MORE GOVERNMENT REVENUE... so they can pay their workers, start infrastructure projects and other projects that must be done HERE, and keep the social nets that keep the poor from completely going down the drain, going.

Having your taxes go back up to 20th century levels is not an increase. With the cost of living increase in the 10 year since the Bush cuts, it's probably still a tax cut.

So, yeah... we know what letting them just expire, the way the Republicans wrote it, will do. More good than harm.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

65. Taxes WILL rise from current levels on January 1, 2011

unless a new bill is passed before then.

There's no way around that. For the people at the lowest levels, payroll deductions will increase by 50%. (Going from a 10% rate to a 15% rate.)

It doesn't matter how either side spins it. For 10 years, the rates have been set at specific levels. Before, they were higher. Unless something is done, they will rise again to the 2001 level. And millions of Americans will blame Obama and the Democrats for that.

[urbuddha]

68. I supported Obama once. I won't make the same mistake twice !

If I would have wanted a Republican president I would have voted for one.

[Raine]

69. It infuriates me nt

:grr:

[4dsc]

72. Defeatist Democrats make me ill

I want someone who will fight the rethugs on this and not surrender.

[Vinca]

74. It's not that they just spout Republican BS, they seem to pursue their agenda.

I'm as worried as I've ever been about the fate of Social Security.

[Jester Messiah]

75. It bothers me that he's siding with corporations against the people.

That he's siding with the wealthy against the rest of us. That's what bothers me above all. The rest all flows from that.

[emulatorloo]

81. Explain. Tax cuts = 544.3 Billion. Top 2% get 81.5 billion. $463 billion to everybudy else

Some DU'ers seem to be operating on the principle that all the money is going to rich people.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/07/news/economy/tax_cut_deal_obama/index.htm

======

I am not happy about the extention to the top 2%. However Republicans would not vote for middle class tax cuts only. If they were left to their own devices the cuts would be permanent, no tax credits no unemployment, etc.

[Erose999]

76. Not only on the tax cuts either, they are also pushing a (R) stance on education.

All that "run a school like a business" privatize everything, union busting, "waiting for superman" crap.

I work in education (I'm not a teacher, I'm a library paraprofessional) in a red state and the teachers unions are pretty much the only group fighting to keep my standard of living.

[emulatorloo]

78. Explain to me how Axelrod's comments are "Smears" and "Republican BS"

Republicans don't care about middle class tax cuts nor to they care about unemployment benefits.

Republican smears take the form of questioning patriotism, accusing democrats of socialism, etc.

[LWolf]

79. It's always bothered me. nt

[Goldstein1984]

80. Bother me? Yes

Surprise me? Not anymore.

[prodigals0n]

83. It bothers me that the republicans win one house of congress and it's like they've been crowned king

Where was that fervor when we had our opportunity?

If the republicans can successfully rule from the minority why can't the Democrats rule from the majority?

Oh, if we don't compromise we'll have "gridlock"? That's the way it works. When one party refuses to yield and is perfectly willing to hold their own nation hostage to re-implement a proven failed, disastrous agenda then we have to respond in kind. Otherwise we're all pulled even further to the right by the same party that took us over the edge of the first cliff. Our fall continues a very short distance further to the right.

We need a leader, not a lemming.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. Yes, this constant acceptance of Republican memes is disgusting

Obama could have just said, "I will veto any bill that contains an extension of the tax cuts, and it will be the Republicans' fault if people go without unemployment compensation. The Republicans are acting like two-year-olds, throwing tantrums and saying that they won't give unemployed people money they need to survive unless we toss in some candy for the billionaires."

Then he could have sent every Democrat Congresscritter back to their home district to say the same thing to every local news outlet.

I have to conclude that the Dems either have the worst PR consultants in the entire world OR the DLCers actually agree with the Republicans on economic issues.

Yeah, the Republican Noise Machine would raise a fuss. So fucking what? Have the Democrats raise a bigger fuss. Send a signal that the bullies' glory days are over.

Yeesh.

[DontTreadOnMe]

90. Dems who spout Repug talking points

will NEVER get my vote.

[emulatorloo]

98. Since when have unemployment benefits and middle class tax cuts been Repub Talking Points?

I've been hearing Democrats promoting those things for years now.

[WhiteTara]

91. yes, it bothers me a lot. n/t

[Jefferson23]

92. No, it doesn't bother me, it infuriates me. n/t

[fatbuckel]

100. Is it just me or does the WH Christmas tree look like it`s leaning to the right a little?

[MissDeeds]

103. It bothers me very much

K&R

[Cherchez la Femme]

110. Is a bear Catholic?

Sheesh... it sure does!