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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 03:53 PM
Original message
Why do some communist parties support the rightist opposition to Chavez?
Why don't they just stop lying and join COPEI or something?
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because
Various communist factions hate each other more than they hate fascists. It's the whole Trotsky vs Lennin thing. When I was in college you should have seen tr way the international socialists would battle the sparticist types.
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The parties should still be banned...
I believe in truth-in advertising. If you're going to oppose Chavez from the right, you have no right to call yourself a leftist. The parties should be liquidated and if their members don't like it they can shut up and join Primero Justicia or something.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Highly antibolivarian to "liquidate" parties I guess.
Nice nickname.
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Banning them would strengthen democracy...
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 08:31 PM by BolivarianHero
Why should reactionary parties be able to present themselves as revolutionary leftists? It was inexcusable when Milosevic did it in Serbia and it's inexcusable now.

To be fair, I feel the same way about the Hugomander.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The cure is worse than the disease.
Who is to decide what party is telling the truth and what isn't? The result would be a mess.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. "disease"?
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Its an expression in the united states.
Don't take it literally.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I didn't..
:hi:
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You mean like people who present themselves as leftists but who in reality are reactionaries?
How do you recognize them? Do they want to start liquidating parties or something?

:yourock:
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Why do so many Americans live under a rock?
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Under a rock...
you mean like in the subsuelo?

:hi:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. USAID "democracy building" funds? nt
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Much like Fox News calling out Hollywood for being too "librul".
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Yeah, right!
With 2 million $ a year, USAID funds all opposition parties AND opposants to the Venezuelan govt. Venezuela is such a poor country that people would do anything for 1$ dollar per year. Especially the communists!
:sarcasm:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Between 40 million and 50 million dollars annually. Odd, isn't it?
That kind of funding to US political groups from outside the country would get people thrown in prison here. Hideous.
Home » Issue 24: July 2010
US, EU agencies fund Venezuelan opposition with $40-50 million annually
By Eva Golinger, in Caracas

A revealing report published in May 2010 by the FRIDE Institute, a Spanish think tank, prepared with funding from the World Movement for Democracy (a project of the US-based National Endowment for Democracy, NED), has disclosed that international agencies are funding the Venezuelan opposition with a whopping US$40-50 million annually. This exorbitant amount of financing well exceeds the approximately $15 million previously believed to have been channelled to Venezuelan opposition groups via the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the NED.

According to the FRIDE report, which analyses the impact of this funding in Venezuela, and concludes that more donations are necessary to support the “democratic opposition” to President Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, the multi-million dollar funds are exclusively directed towards political activities in the polarised South American nation. A large majority of the $40-50 million donated by US and European agencies and foundations, is given to the right-wing opposition political parties Primero Justicia (First Justice), Un Nuevo Tiempo (A New Time) and COPEI (the Christian Democrat ultra-conservative party), as well as to a dozen or so NGOs, student groups and media organisations.

In the FRIDE report, the Venezuelan government is classified as “semi-authoritarian”, which is a term used frequently by the NED and another US donor to Venezuelan opposition groups, Freedom House, to describe the Chavez administration. The report even goes so far as to indicate that in Venezuela, “Elections are the main link between democracy and dictatorship”. As a result, the international funds provided to political groups in Venezuela are destined to fight against the government of Hugo Chavez in order to “restore representative democracy” and return a more US-friendly government to power.

The authors of the revealing report recognise that “international assistance” for political groups in Venezuela did not begin until 2002, after the Chavez government began implementing a series of major reforms. “The presence of large international donors engaged in democracy promotion, particularly the donors based in the US (including the Carter Center, the International Republican Institute (IRI), the National Democratic Institute (NDI), the Open Society Institute (OSI), the Pan American Development Foundation (PADF), USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and multilateral institutions (OAS and EC) is closely linked to the Chavez presidency … Their political engagement began in the aftermath of the new Bolivarian Constitution, approved by popular consultation in 1999, which was the starting point of Chavez’s Revolution and Socialism of the 21st Century … Many civil society organizations emerged in 2002 — the year of the attempted coup…”
More:
http://directaction.org.au/issue24/american_european_agencies_fund_venezuelan_opposition
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. 2009: "..with $1,818,473 USD, more than double from the year before"
"Venezuela stands out as the Latin American nation where NED has most invested funding in opposition groups during 2009, with $1,818,473 USD, more than double from the year before"

The only verifiable number in that article is the NED funding. The rest is speculation. What does she call opposition? Who are the agencies funding?

We all know Eva Golinger is a functionary of the Chavez government.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. exactly n/t
s
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L Cutter Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. "We all know" functionaries
>We all know Eva Golinger is a functionary of the Chavez government.<

"We all know" Eva Golinger as a US attorney-at-law and a superb independent investigator who became increasingly anti-Imperialist over the years as she discovered, from official US records, the facts concerning the immoral and criminal US actions in Venezuela. So, from an honest, concerned citizen to activist to functionary, if you must, she has an honest concern for the Venezuelan people - unlike the functionaries who support and work for corporate Imperial NED and USAID.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. "We all know Eva Golinger is a functionary of the Chavez government."
Oh bullshit. No, what we all know is that a comment like that is a good indication of someone that doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

:hi:
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Where does she work? Who pays her salary?
She is the exact opposite of "independent". Her salary comes from the Venezuelan administration. It's not like a secret you know.

Maybe you got lost?

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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. You mean Golinger, "la novia de Venezuela", from Venezolana de Television?
The chief editor of Correo del Orinoco Internacional?

State companies indeed.
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L Cutter Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yes, that's the one.
Yes, that's the one. But, you imply much without saying anything.

I do not begrudge Golinger receiving recognition and appreciation or reward for her years of excellent work.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I've never EVER heard anyone bring proof she has twisted the truth.
Not one time.

Evo Golinger is simply not someone who spent so much time creating her career only to make it meaningless by trafficking in bogus information.

I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for those who feel the need to attack her to people who know better. What a stupid waste of time!

Eva has courage, and I respect her, as you do.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Not an "independent investigator" then
She might be a superb investigator but she certainly isn't a "superb independent investigator".
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L Cutter Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. independent investigator
This is the second time in this thread that you have misrepresented my post with irrelevant, unsubstantiated innuendo.

If you have, or believe you have, information refuting my comment, to wit:

("a superb independent investigator who became increasingly anti-Imperialist...from an honest, concerned citizen to activist to functionary, if you must, she has an honest concern for the Venezuelan people")

please present it.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. When you're employed by a government, you're not independent
Not even when it's a revolutionary government.

No other information is necessary.

Do you have some facts refuting that or are you basically repeating the exact same thing you just said?
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L Cutter Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Other information is definitely necessary.
I repeated the pertinent parts of my previous post on the chance that you had merely been careless in your reading the first time.

The only fact I need to refute your strawman is to point out, again, that it does not reflect, but rather ignores, what I said.

It is incumbent upon you to say and show when she became "employed by a government" and relate that to the chronology that I presented in a way that would demonstrate an inaccuracy on my part.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. No, it's not. Working for a government is a sufficient condition for not being independent
You're merely pointing out the fact that she WAS independent before she started working for the govt. That's an irrelevant truism.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. This seems to be going nowhere
As you two seem to have a different definition of independent.

Chang loa seems to be using a definition that is something along the lines of "1. not influenced or controlled by others in matters of opinion, conduct, etc.; thinking or acting for oneself: an independent thinker.

2. not subject to another's authority or jurisdiction; autonomous; free: an independent businessman.

3. not influenced by the thought or action of others: independent research."

While L Cutter seems to be working with a definition that is something along the lines of "agrees with my politics".

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L Cutter Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I concede that you are correct in the "going nowhere" part.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 11:19 PM by L Cutter
In my original comment, "independent" means simply "not employed by" when she began her activism. The chronology, if nothing else, should make that clear. No-one has made any effort to disabuse me of that belief. I also, in the same post, acknowledged that she was now "employed by".

(edit: I actually said "independent investigator" - which started in 95)
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. really, what's her position?
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Try reading the whole thread before posting. nt
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. Sorry, I missed it. What's her position? n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'd love to see some information on that, as well. n/t
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. She has at least 3 different positions in the Venezuelan public sector
She is the chief editor of the State's newspaper in English (Correo del Orinoco Int.)

She's the director and co-founder of the government's think tank "Fundación Centro de Estudios Estratégicos"

She works as an associate in the government's think tank "Centro Internacional Miranda" (Ministry of Universitary Education)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Information to keep in mind when there's time for a search later:
From Wikipedia:
In 2004, Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez publicized documents which purported to show that the NED funded civil associations in the country, like Súmate, including a tripling of funding from about $250,000 to nearly $900,000 between 2000 and 2001.<16> As of July, 2010, the NED is accused of funding several journalists in Venezuela who work for opposition media outlets.<17>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy#Venezuela

The serious ones of us are very familiar with this pattern which was even implemented by Richard M. Nixon and our C.I.A. when they poured U.S. taxpayers' hard earned dollars into the Chilean media magnate Augustin Edwards' newspapers (El Mercurio, for one, and radio and tv stations) as well as placing CIA employees inside his newspaper El Mercurio to handle the filthy anti-Allende spin, THEN to continue working to handle the pro-Pinochet crap during the years ahead.

Very, VERY familiar formula. It would be good to get the names and papers of these US taxpayer-financed Venezuelan "journlists."

~~~~~

Comments from Phillip Agee, former C.I.A. man, before he died recently. The topic is N.E.D., and of course, we are very acquainted with U.S.A.I.D., also, which loads millions into opposition groups in countries with leaders Washington and Wall Street don't like:
But then there were the other core foundations – this was the fundamental mechanism for promotion of democracy around the world, but in actual fact, when they say the promotion of democracy, or civic education, or fortifying civil society, what they really mean is using those euphemisms to cover funding to certain political forces and not to others. In other words, to fortify the opposition of undesirable foreign governments as in the case of Venezuela, or to support a government that is favorable to US interests and avoid of coming to power of forces that are not seen as favorable to US interests. This will be the case since the early 1990s in Nicaragua because all those programs that were started in order to assure the defeat of Daniel Ortega in 1990 continued, and they continued to make sure that Sandinista Front was not reelected again after their defeat in 1990 – and that has been the case. These programs go on in various different countries and they require quite a bit of research. ... I am sure that one could find these programs in Mexico, Colombia, Peru probably, Brazil, and other countries outside the Latin American region.

~snip~
In late 2004, Adam Wild Aba wrote, "The new intelligence law also directs the State Department to promote a free press and the development of 'professional journalists' in the Muslim world. It says free press is a must as part of the overall public diplomacy strategy for the Middle East, according to the State Department’s statement. Under the law, the National Endowment for Democracy shall fund a private-sector group to establish a free-media network to help participants share information concerning development of free media in 'societies in transition'." <6>

NED also supports the nonprofit organization Internews which encourages media worldwide to "promote democracy". In 2004, Internews had a budget of $27 million, 80 percent of which came from the U.S. government.

"Marguerite H. Sullivan is Director of the Center on International Media Assistance at the National Endowment for Democracy."

~~~

Covert embedded reporters

Several articles about the political process in Haiti, Iraq, and the Palestinian-occupied territories have appeared in The New York Times, NPR, and other mainstream US media. The impression is given that the articles are from bona fide journalists, but it transpires that several of them are paid by the NED or its affiliated organizations. The case of Regine Alexandre is particularly interesting. She wrote articles for the New York Times, AP, and commented on NPR. It transpires that she is on the NED payroll, and the NED confirmed this fact. However, when confronted with this information both the NYT and NPR failed to respond or take this seriously.

Source: Anthony Fenton and Dennis Bernstein, "AP reporter RéGINE is wearing two hats," Haiti Action.net, December 29, 2005.

~~~

Conducting polls

NED (or its satellite organizations) has been active in conducting election exit polls in Serbia, Ukraine, Venezuela. These results were used on occasion to cast doubt on the actual election results, and thus deligitimize the winner of the election, and thus create pressure for an election re-run. <7>

In December 2004, the NED-association organization International Republican Institute conducted a survey in Iraq to determine the popular intent to vote. It found that 75% of Iraqis would opt to vote, thus lending some legitimacy to the electoral exercise. However, IRI didn't poll the key cities where the insurgency is strong, i.e., Fallujah, Ramadi and Mosul. <8> Such surveys lend legitimacy to so-called demonstration elections, and discredit those opposed to the elections.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Endowment_for_Democracy

~~~~~

Jeremy Bigwood Investigative reporter
Posted: July 19, 2010 01:28 PM
Buying Venezuela's Press With U.S. Tax Dollars

The U.S. State Department is secretly funneling millions of dollars to Latin American journalists, according to documents obtained in June under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The 20 documents released to this author--including grant proposals, awards, and quarterly reports--show that between 2007 and 2009, the State Department's little-known Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor channeled at least $4 million to journalists in Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela through the Pan American Development Foundation (PADF), a Washington-based grant maker that has worked in Latin America since 1962. Thus far, only documents pertaining to Venezuela have been released. They reveal that the PADF, collaborating with Venezuelan NGOs associated with the country's political opposition, has been supplied with at least $700,000 to give out journalism grants and sponsor journalism education programs.

Until now, the State Department has hidden its role in funding the Venezuelan news media, one of the opposition's most powerful weapons against President Hugo Chavez and his Bolivarian movement. The PADF, serving as an intermediary, effectively removed the government's fingerprints from the money. Yet, as noted in a State Department document titled "Bureau/Program Specific Requirements," the State Department's own policies require that "all publications" funded by the department "acknowledge the support." But the provision was simply waived for the PADF. "For the purposes of this award," the requirements document adds, " . . . the recipient is not required to publicly acknowledge the support of the U.S. Department of State."

Before 2007, the largest funder of U.S. "democracy promotion" activities in Venezuela was not the State Department but the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), together with the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). But in 2005, these organizations' underhanded funding was exposed by Venezuelan American attorney Eva Golinger in a series of articles, books, and lectures (disclosure: This author obtained many of the documents). After the USAID and NED covers were blown wide open--forcing USAID's main intermediary, Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI), a Maryland-based contractor, to close its office in Caracas--the U.S. government apparently sought new funding channels, one of which the PADF appears to have provided.

Although the $700,000 allocated to the PADF, which is noted in the State Department's requirements document, may not seem like a lot of money, the funds have been strategically used to buy off the best of Venezuela's news media and recruit young journalists. This has been achieved by collaborating with opposition NGOs, many of which have a strong media focus. The requirements document is the only document that names any of these organizations--which was probably an oversight on the State Department's part, since the recipients' names and a lot of other information are excised in the rest of the documents. The requirements document names Espacio Publico and Instituto Prensa y Sociedad, two leading organizations linked to the Venezuelan opposition, as recipients of "subgrants."

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-bigwood/buying-venezuelas-press-w_b_650178.html
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not mentioned so far ...



1. Venezuela had only one Communist Party (Partido Comunista de Venezuela), not "parties." The PCV has dwindled to being a very minor player in Venezuelan politics.

2. There are other small, leftist parties that have formed in recent years and that fielded candidates outside of Chavez's PSUV. (IIRC there were 10 political groups aligned against the PSUV in the elections.)

3. Some of the splinter leftist parties ran against the PSUV because they have said Chavez's brand of socialism is NOT revolutionary enough.

4. It is a mistake to think these parties are part of the virulent, right-wing opposition to Chavez.

5. It is a given that when the new National Assembly convenes, the splinter leftist party deputies will probably in the end support the PSUV.




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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Situation...
Actually, some have said Chavez is not revolutionary enough but some others tend to see him as a power hungry autocrat with very mediocre results.

Today, all preexistent leftist parties have left his coalition. The PCV is the last loyal party but tensions are strong. Chavez wants them to dissolve their party into the PSUV. They've been refusing since 2006.

On the other hand, I don't see the PPT coming back. The rupture was extremely violent and they are proposing a complete different model than the chavistas. In any ways, they just have 2 seats. 65 seats were won by the MUD (PJusticia, COPEI, AD, UNT, Podemos).

Chavez has no qualified majority (3/5 and 2/3), just the simple majority. You'll see the PSUV now passing laws like crazy before january when the new assembly starts. After that, there will probably be a fight for qualified majority issues. PSUV will argue that their proposed laws are inorganic and the MUD will try to present them as organic (2/3 needed to pass).

It's already started:
http://sociales.eluniversal.com/2010/09/28/v2010_ava_no-esta-demas-que-e_28A4534171.shtml
http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/capriles/cadena-global/detalle.aspx?idart=3359466&idcat=56657&tipo=2
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. List of new deputies
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