By the way, Mr. President, could you do the country this tiny little favor?

[DFW]

How about leading the charge to eliminating electronic voting machines?

I know, I know, it was a favorite issue of Howard Dean, and your White House has chosen to keep him
at arm's length--like the length of the arm of Atlas.

But even so, it has been an issue plaguing our (your, remember?) party not only since 2002, but continues
to be one, especially now that the vast majority of voters that put us in with a tidal wave in 2008 cannot
be counted on. Remember who owns AND OPERATES those machines, and to whom they owe their allegiance. Hint:
they did not pledge allegiance to our party, or even to neutrality. Quite the contrary: They pledged their
allegiance, openly and proudly to the Republican Party. In Texas, we call that a HINT!!! Even in Hawai'i, I
think they call it something other than Aloha, haole though I may be.

Just because the issue has been brought up before, this does NOT mean it has been resolved. No way, no how.
These things are still being used in American elections, and are programmed by the same people that gave us
Saxby Chambliss in Georgia and George W. Bush in Ohio, as well as so many other cases of national indigestion.

There may not be time to initiate some kind of move to eliminate them from the midterms this year, but you
might consider have Eric Holder, or some other administration member with clout to start the legal proceedings
to eliminate the use of these machines--not because they are unreliable, but because they have been just a
little too reliable in the past, and exclusively to the detriment of Democratic candidates.

I know there are few other issues to address--wars, budget, foreign relations, immigration, and I don't mean
to belittle them. However, if we don't fix the corruption in the tallying of the votes cast on our elections,
a Democratic Congress, and subsequently you, won't be there addressing those bigger issues much longer, either.
Romney, Bonehead and McTurtle will. Let's not allow that to happen, OK?

Just a little food for thought? If you get a sec? Thanks!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

1. We vote by mail and on paper in Oregon and it works.

[scheming daemons]

9. Oregon's system is the very best system in this nation

[depakid]

11. It also raised voter turnout significantly while lowering costs

and virtually eliminating voter caging and polling place disruptions.

[eridani]

14. It is important to remember that Oregon also has MANDATORY auditing of the scanning machines

I wish all states did.

[rhett o rick]

20. Oregon and especially Portland are great. Not sure why is works there. nm

[quakerboy]

27. Because its a system designed to work, perhaps?

Whats to understand?

[rhett o rick]

60. So you say they are using a "system" that no one else has or knows about?

Why isnt the "system" being used elsewhere? Maybe you understand, but I dont. They are doing something right, but what?

[quakerboy]

62. Allowing people to vote.

Its fairly simple. Give people the right to vote, make it a relatively simple process, and count the results.

Here they mail you a ballot. You fill it out and return it. Simple.

You have plenty of time to sit in front of a computer and look up who the heck each of these names on your ballot is, in their own words and others. You can fill it out way ahead and mail it in, or you can wait until election day to fill it in and drop it into the boxes that are available practically everywhere. You do not have to take the day off work. You do not have to wait in line. You don't have to rely on a neighbor for a ride to the polling place. It doesn't matter if the weather is bad on election day. The PTB cannot short you on polling places because every mail box is a polling place. Plus there's no way to not have a paper trail if you have to physically mail or hand in your ballot.

As to why... I am sure there are many reasons. Maybe its economic(someones making money off the machines). Maybe its power(those in control don't want you to vote). Maybe its tradition (nostalgia for polling places and a big lever and that kachunk sound.). If you have %15 of those in power who are making money, %15 that don't want you to vote, %15 who instinctively favor status quo, and %45 that are apathetic, that about answers your question.

[Arugula Latte]

38. I love our system here in Oregon. The voter's pamphlet is great.

It covers all of the candidates/issues you will be voting on, with testimonials from a variety of groups and interests.

I just look to see which candidates/ballot measures are endorsed by good liberal groups and vote for them, or if they're endorsed by wingnuts then that makes it easy to vote against them.

[Orsino]

2. I mean, which party stands to lose by those same machines?

Why the fuck isn't every Dem up in arms?

[rhett o rick]

19. Why isnt the Democratic Party taking this more seriously? nm

[OnyxCollie]

25. Maybe, behind the scenes,

Dems and Repubs are the same party.

Lots of "why's" here:

Why have the Repubs been able to block everything by just threatening a filibuster?
Why have the Dems not done anything to address it?
Why have the Repubs put holds on appointees, and why haven't the Dems done anything about it?
Why haven't Dems used recess appointments to put blocked appointees in office?
Why have liberal voices been shut out?
Why haven't the politicized US Attorneys been replaced?
Why haven't Dems ended the war, restored FISA, and prosecuted the criminals responsible for war crimes?

It's seems to be a wasted effort to address all of these "why's" in an ad hoc manner; Better to come up with a general hypothesis that these "why's" occur because Dems and Repubs are the same party.

Stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[kenfrequed]

28. Yup.

I wish I could answer half of these questions.

[Jim Sagle]

30. Yes, they're both the Republican party.

Obama's "Democratic" administration went to great lengths to make Republican Senator Ted Stevens' legal problems go away. This SAME "Democratic" administration also went to great lengths to block Democratic Governor Siegelman from legally vindicatihng himself.

With all the Republican Congressional corruption that has taken place over the last decade, who do the "Democratic" congresscritters investigate? Democrats Rangel and Waters. And just in time for the upcoming midterm elections.

[Kermitt Gribble]

32. Bingo!

That's the only explanation. Well put!

[truedelphi]

44. Please ignore the strange crew erecting an antennae that will soon

Be beaming harmful Low Frequency Waves at your dwelling.

This will not affect you.

Even if you start feeling sleepier than usual, do not be alarmed.

Should you start doubting the very truths you have established, do not be alarmed.

Those were not truths, but dangerous aberrant thoughts...

Please fall back in line with the sheeple!

Please fall back in line with the sheeple!

There, that is better.

<Program ended.>

[rhett o rick]

61. I tend to agree. Noone has been able to answer my question otherwise. nm

[flyarm]

3. Don't expect that anytime soon..after all we in Fla had our primary scrapped because we fought to

get rid of the DRE voting machines..the only State in the Nation to do so, and our republican legislature in that bill tagged onto that bill a date change for our primary..the consequences..we had our Primary negated and Obama got votes he did not get in our primary by default.

[Stevepol]

4. K& a million R's. IMOTX wd already be blue but for ES&S etc.,

Of course it takes a venue where the machines are guarded and handled mostly by one party, nearly always the Repub party of course, as in Clay County KY or GA in 2002, but it wdn't require any local help if the owners and programmers at ES&S headquarters decided to do it themselves working thru their "technicians." There are perhaps more ways to rig or manipulate the machines than there are stars in the sky on a cloudless night.

[DFW]

7. My brother does stuff for DARPA, and he confirms what you said.

He says give him a laptop and a cell phone and he'll make any one of those machines say whatever he wants them to.

[pleah]

5. K&R

[vaberella]

6. I'm cool with this. I'd prefer to vote online. Make my life so much easier. n/t

[scheming daemons]

8. If it comes from prominent party leaders, it will be seen as "sour grapes"

It needs to be attacked on a state-by-state level. That's where the decisions are made to use these abominable machines.

[Jennicut]

10. We have Diebold optical scan machines in CT. I was fine with the old levers. Uggg.

Wish they hadn't changed it...

[704wipes]

13. Well I heard the old levers machines could be ginned up with

toothpicks, cotton swabs and paper clips for a portion of the day, and then a tap in the right place made those things fall to the bottom of the machine and out on the floor with no one none the wiser....

[Jennicut]

21. Hmmm....paper ballots only seem the way to go.

[laughingliberal]

35. Perhaps, but I never once saw a discrepancy between exit polls and final results with them. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Oy vey...

:eyes:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. I'm right there with you, my dear DFW.

Electronic voting machines are a very large blot on the history of our country.

Recommended.

[Scuba]

16. Why isn't this breech of our elections a major issue? Last fal....

Last fall, ES&S quietly purchased Diebold, giving them 80% of market for electronic voting machings. And it's not just the un-auditable vote-counting; they now also own polling place check-in software (electronic pollbooks), voter registration software and vote-by-mail authentication software.

http://www.benalexandra.com/cool_stuff/diebold_ess.htm

This link has very disturbing information, all with appropriate citations, regarding what could easily be a mass-manipulation of our elections.

They've already been caught registering voters who thought they were just signing petitions. Getting total registered voter numbers higher gives them more room to fudge numbers.

When you buy a pack of gum, you get a receipt. Why is there no receipt/audit trail on our votes? I can only think of one reason.

[laughingliberal]

36. There is only one reason. Interestingly, our SOS, a Republican, insisted on that.

It was impressive. He refused to let them in the state without paper receipts. Led me to believe he was a moderate. Became a Bushbot when he was elected to the House. But he was serious about honest elections.

[NorthCarolina]

17. They're too useful in ensuring America's vote reflects conservative values,

whether it actually does or not.

[valerief]

18. If that happens, there's a possibility that democracy could creep in!!!!! nt

[BklnDem75]

22. Isn't this a state issue?

As a former governor, perhaps it was easier for Dean to lead on this issue because he wasn't part of the federal government.

[w4rma]

23. The federal government put into place a program that subsidized the things a while ago.

It was done in response to the R/W campaign against "hanging chads" after the 2000 election.

[BklnDem75]

24. What program?

Did the program take the ultimate decision making from governors, sec of states and state board of elections?

[NorthCarolina]

39. I think it was the Help America Vote Act.

Apparently the idea was to develop equipment that would automatically correct your vote should you cast your ballot for the unapproved candidate....that probably accounted for the "Help" aspect of the Help America Vote act.

[Myrina]

26. America's fascination with instant gratification ...

... other countries' election processes take days, sometimes weeks, to count all of the hand-cast votes.
Why can't we use that also? Because 'technology is better'? Because we're supposed to be 'ahead of those primitive cultures'?

I'd be in no hurry to get all the votes counted, if I knew they were going to be counted correctly and reported accurately.

JMHO.

[russspeakeasy]

31. The reason we don't slow count votes?

They might come out different than those who bought the votes
wanted.. If NOBODY voted it would still come out 51% to 49%.

[depakid]

51. Hogwash- election results in hand counted countries are known within hours

[Myrina]

58. ok well, that proves my point even moreso ...

n'cest pas?

[depakid]

59. Actually, the difference lies in the complexity of the ballots

Hand counting is easier when there's not a ton of separate things to count.

Bottom line is that there's no excuse whatsoever for touch screen (or any sort of) paperless voting- because you can't audit electrons (even if- as has been proven incorrect time and again they might be "faster).

The various states wasted billions on inefficient systems with no accountability- and every reason for intelligent people to question the integrity of the results.

It's almost as if Americans at every local level WANTED to become the third world banana republic that they're becoming.

[OnyxCollie]

29. K&R. nt

[ElectricLightDem]

33. This in my A #1 Issue

It is all tied into giving the 'little guy' a legitimate voice in determining the direction his or her elected 'leaders' take. The powers that be have been very effective in taking this voice away. Or, at the very least, marginalizing it enough to where the voice just doesn't matter to those in power anymore.

[DFW]

37. Stalin saw this a long time ago

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."

[laughingliberal]

34. K & R nt

[CrispyQ]

40. Democratic silence on this issue tells all.

Especially after 2004. And the numerous other irregularities at local levels.

It's hard, too, when the largest voting segment is the non-voters. They have no vested interest in this issue.

k&r

[lame54]

41. K&R

Paper Ballots - Hell Yeah!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxF4y9tSG08

[snake in the grass]

42. A very important point.

And while he's at it, why not push public financing of campaigns? Otherwise, we remain the best democracy money can buy.

[bobburgster]

43. Agree with the OP, too bad the "broken records" started their spin...

almost immediately. Anti-obama, anti-democratic party, and on and on.

It certainly takes away from a serious discussion on a very important concern. i will contact my representatives, and the White House, on this issue.

[truedelphi]

45. K & R your topic. And lovin' OnyxColie's reply # 19

Onyx Collie sez:

Maybe, behind the scenes,

Dems and Repubs are the same party.

Lots of "why's" here:

Why have the Repubs been able to block everything by just threatening a filibuster?
Why have the Dems not done anything to address it?
Why have the Repubs put holds on appointees, and why haven't the Dems done anything about it?
Why haven't Dems used recess appointments to put blocked appointees in office?
Why have liberal voices been shut out?
Why haven't the politicized US Attorneys been replaced?
Why haven't Dems ended the war, restored FISA, and prosecuted the criminals responsible for war crimes?

It's seems to be a wasted effort to address all of these "why's" in an ad hoc manner; Better to come up with a general hypothesis that these "why's" occur because Dems and Repubs are the same party.

Stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. Greene 2010!

:woohoo:

[glitch]

47. +infinity K & R without reliable vote counts Americans are DOA. nt

[Overseas]

48. K&R! Yes please! //nt

[KoKo]

49. Oh Yeah...WTF happened to all that Legislation? Didn't Charley Rangel and Maxine Waters end up in

the House Basement holding Hearings on the 2004 Stolen Election?

Didn't John Conyers preside over the hearings?

And didn't John Conyers Wife get indicted shortly after for greed or corruption on Detroit City Council and now we have both Charley Rangel and Maxine Waters under Dem Ethics Committee Hearings?

How Come?

[OnyxCollie]

50. John Conyers

Remember when Rove et al. blew off the congressional subpoenas? Conyers could have used inherent contempt to lock them up until they talked. Instead, he blinked and used statutory contempt.

Was it because his wife Monica was being investigated? Was he afraid she would get a longer sentence? (She got three years.)

Rove, Miers, the WH, and the RNC would later provide 6,000 pages of documents. What became of all that?

Answer: nothing. (Actually, worse than nothing. No wrongdoing.)

[flamingdem]

52. K + R

[akbacchus_BC]

53. DFW, have no idea what you want President Obama to do in 18 months!

Why dont you attack Congress, it is Congress who is stalling all the President's plans but no, Obama is being blamed for not rescinding eight years of Bush atrocities.

Carry on and us intelligent people have the President's back!

I am sick and tired of all the blame that Obama is taking!

[DFW]

55. I'm not "blaming" him for anything here

A bit defensive, are we? I'll be voting for Obama again in 2012, stupid though I may be (magna, not summa--I'm so ashamed)

I'm just saying I would like to hear him speak out on this issue and get something rolling.

He is a forceful speaker, and has the media at his beck and call. If he wants attention called to it,
attention WILL be called to it. He can ignore it as well, and risk everyone else in government ignoring
it along with him, and then guess what happens in every close race this November where these machines,
or rather, those who program them, decide the outcome? It was the government that allowed these things
to be used in the first place. The government can just as easily rescind that action.

[akbacchus_BC]

54. All the snakes coming out to bad talk this President who inherited a boatload of shit. It makes me

wonder who you people are. You took eight years of Bush shit and you want Obama to change it in 18 months when you all know the some people in the Senate and Congress vote against him!

Who are you people?

[DFW]

56. Lighten up, Francis

This issue is not new. In fact it is so old, it risks getting put on the back burner until it ends
up biting us in the back (again). No one here is badmouthing Obama for deliberately ignoring the
issue. I just raised my voice in wishing that it be addressed, now that we have a president and
Congress that might look a little more carefully at it than the last president and congress, many
of whom owed their "elections" solely to these machines rather than to the true results of the
elections in which they ran. I don't recall it being forcefully addressed since January 20th, 2009,
and would appreciate that it be addressed while there is still a chance to do so with a legitimate hope
of action being taken. If that's too much to ask, well, then, that's my tough luck, but not just mine alone.

[Divine Discontent]

57. late K&quasi-Rec

[yeswecanandwedid]

63. Won't happen, you can't slow technology. nt

[LittleBlue]

64. D's and R's are a two-card monte, and we're the easy mark. NT