Obama's August Surprise? A Mortgage Rescue in Every Pot

[flpoljunkie]

(We can only hope! The R's would have a fit! Ha!)

A Mortgage Rescue In Every Pot

Posted 08/05/2010 07:00 PM ET

Buying Votes: It appears that Democrats will receive a severe beating in the fall elections. What can save them? How about the administration wiping out large swaths of debt for underwater mortgage holders?

James Pethokoukis, a Reuters columnist who once wrote for IBD, reported Thursday that the White House might have an August Surprise in the works.

"Rumors are running wild from Washington to Wall Street that the Obama administration is about to order government-controlled lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to forgive a portion of the mortgage debt of millions of Americans who owe more than what their homes are worth," Pethokoukis wrote in Reuters' Political Risk blog.

As Pethokoukis notes, with 15 million mortgages — one in five — upside down, there is $800 billion in negative equity out there. That's a lot of money to forgive — and a lot of voters to sway toward the president's party.

more...

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/542795/201008051900/A-Mortgage-Rescue-In-Every-Pot.aspx

[Lost4words]

1. aint gonna happen, I wish it would.

[hedgehog]

2. Here's hoping that if it does happen, people understand that

we're all in the same boat. You may be sitting high and dry right now, but if we don't plug the leak at the other guy's end of the boat, we're all going to be swimming pretty soon.

[jschurchin]

3. What's next? Houses are free?

Yeah thats the ticket!!! "My fellow Americans, I have directed the Federal Reserve, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to eliminate all Americans mortgages" "We will BORROW another 5 TRILLION dollars to accomplish this, I mean whats a couple more Trillion that we aren't gonna pay back anyway, so enjoy your free houses America, and I hope you remember this in November"

Lets get real folks. You borrowed $500,000 on a house thats now worth $200,000? Tough shit, pay your fucking bills and quit whining. You lost your job and can't pay your bills? I feel for you, but since when should I pay for your house?
I make $60k and bought a $52,000 house. You know why? Cause I'm not fucking STUPID.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

4. Don't sell yourself short, judge....(nt)

[winstars]

69. I think you're a terrific slouch!!! nt

[flpoljunkie]

5. Good for you, but many folks were duped by unscrupulous mortgage brokers and don't forget the banks'

role in the mortgage meltdown.

[leftofcool]

11. True but it is also true that many people

lied/inflated their salary or hourly wage to qualify for a home loan. Those folks who did the right thing.....bought a home they could actually afford then lost their job or had an illness won't be the ones getting the help they deserve. It will be the dimwits who bought more home than they could afford that get all the help packages. Hard working people who paid 150K for a home that is now valued at 20K less than what they paid are not really upside down considering the way home values increase/decrease all the time. The problem is right now, those who were making only 100K a year and were idiotic enough to think they could afford a 500K home which is now worth only about half of what they paid for it are those are the ones doing all the whining. I'd like to think there really is a program out there who would help the ones who deserve it the most.

[My Good Babushka]

14. That sounds like the excuse for not having universal healthcare

"we don't want to give health care to everyone because some people smoke, or eat too much, or don't have a regular exercise regimen- so they all need to be punished." We would never want to err on the side of fairness and generosity around here.

[leftofcool]

15. Uh no, health care is a right, "owning" a home is not.

[My Good Babushka]

19. A stable shelter is just as important as food and medicine

"punishing" people who may have made poor decision right now is only dragging the economy down.

[leftofcool]

25. Excuse me

I am not punishing anyone. Those who made poor decisions have to suffer the consequences of their decisions just like I have for the ones I have made.

[phleshdef]

59. Yea, fuck those people who could no longer afford their mortgage because of lost jobs.

Those stupid little twits, deciding to buy a home without anticipating the possibility that the economy might completely tank and fuck everyone over. And now they want the big bad federal nanny state to step in and help them get back afloat. Nothing but god damn welfare queens, milking my tax dollars!

[rury]

18. How do you know there isn't a program coming

to help those who "deserve it the most."
And BTW, lenders are responsible for verifying a potential borrowers' income before coughing up the money and denying credit to those who cannot afford it.
Still the lenders fucking fault on that score.
You're either being dimwitted or cruel here.
Either way, you remind me of Ben Stein's bad personality.

[leftofcool]

26. Yep I'm cruel because I don't want to pay for some one else's home

I have my own mortgage and taxes. Why should I be stuck with some one elses?

[rury]

31. Cruel and/or clueless

about how many people got taken to the cleaners by unscrupulous, greedy lenders!

[Hansel]

40. You're going to pay for it anyway.

As the value of you property continues to decrease and crime sets up shop in the empty homes around you. I personally think it is worth the small investment of my tax dollars to prevent that.

You can pretend all you want that every person in crisis is personal responsible for their own demise, but the fact is that greed and corruption at the top played a much bigger role. There is, of course, a small percentage of people who will game the system, but the vast majority are in the situation because of pure unadulterated greed leading to less than forthright mortgages and to economic conditions resulting in loss of their jobs.

Good for you that you pay your own mortgage and taxes. Good for you that you are smarter than some people and also luckier than some. But for many many people the recession and unscrupulous information from the "professionals" they trusted--professionals who counted on them not understanding the consequences of their decisions--led to their losses through no fault of their own.

I pay my own mortgage and taxes too. But I'm also not so pompous that I don't understand that not everyone is financially savvy and that circumstances could change at anytime that would make that far more difficult.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

61. Not cruel. Stupid.

[ljm2002]

21. Your example of a $150K house losing $20K of value...

...would indeed be a typical type of swing in the value of a house. It would still be a pretty big fluctuation, but within reason.

However, here in Nevada, the loss of home values is more like 30%. So that home would be more likely to have lost $50K in value. In many neighborhoods, a house that was worth $350,000 is now worth more like $250,000 on a good day. What with foreclosures and short sales, you might see those houses sold for $200,000 or even less. That is a serious loss of equity and it is not at all typical of the fluctuations one would expect over the life of a mortgage. And these losses have put over 50% of the homebuyers in Nevada under water. Are you saying that over 50% of homebuyers in Nevada are dimwits? Or would you allow that maybe, just maybe, there was a systemic problem here?

[leftofcool]

27. But that is in Nevada where many people overbought

Sorry, I just don't think I am responsible for someone else's mortgage.

[ljm2002]

28. Got it...

...you do think that the 50%+ of Nevada homebuyers who are underwater are dimwits.

Thanks for the clarification.

[flpoljunkie]

6. Dupe!

[MadHound]

7. That's nice and all,

But the fact is it takes two to tango. A house is the most important purchase most of us make in life, so you don't approach it like buying a lotto ticket at the corner store. You need to do some research, set up a budget, and take into account future expenses.

Furthermore, if a lender is offering to lend you money at a low teaser rate, despite the fact that you have a low paying, or no job, on a quarter million dollar house, well, you know what they say about something that seems too good to be true.

Yes, the banksters were greedy, sneaky SOB's. But a lot of the people who signed all those dotted lines were simply stupid. Now we're seeing what happens when greed collides with stupidity.

[My Good Babushka]

8. So, our house was only 53k

and we made 32-36k a year. Still lost the house when our primary income was lost for 2+ years. I guess we're just fucking STUPID.

Go jump in a lake.

[PassingFair]

16. “ Reckless fools lost first because they deserved to lose..."

...and careful, wise men lost later because a world-wide earthquake doesn’t ask for personal references.


Edwin LeFevre, 1932

I'm with you....

[lunatica]

10. I guess you've never been laid off have you?

But then maybe only stupid people get laid off.

[jschurchin]

22. Actually, I have been laid off

However it was many years ago, and only for a short period of time, not long enough to collect any unemployment insurance.

You see, I decided back in 1982 when the steel industry collapsed here in Pittsburgh that I needed to gain as many skills as possible to be able to make myself marketable in more than one industry. I worked as a carpenter for 5+ years and can build a house from the ground up. I went to electronics school and got my degree in Electronics from Penn Technical Institute so I can wire the home also. I was fortunate after that that I found a Master Plumber who was willing to teach me the craft, as electronics didn't appeal to me, and I hold my Master Plumbing License.

I have worked in a mill, been the Chief Engineer at a hotel in Pittsburgh, and am currently employed by a class 1 railroad. I have acquired as many skills as possible and am willing to learn new ones as my life goes on.

So, no my friend, stupid people aren't the ones who get laid off. They are the ones who stay laid off because they haven't invested the time to make themselves marketable in a very difficult economy. Or the ones who are unwilling to do anything it takes to gain employment because it is beneath them.

[Ikonoklast]

24. And you have been lucky.

No illnesses, no accidents to keep you from work also contribute to your current position.

Just because your lifetime working experience has been positive doesn't hold true for many.


Your bootstraps are showing.

"I did it, everyone else can, too, or they're lazy and stupid!"

I wonder what the people with advanced degrees that are a little older, and can't get a job for love or money feel about this.

[jschurchin]

32. Luck has nothing to do with it.

A work ethic passed down from my father, does.

I wonder what the people with advanced degrees that are a little older, and can't get a job for love or money feel about this.

You mean the people with Masters in Business who used to be Vice-Presidents and got laid off and who aren't willing to take a job making 1/3 of what they used to? Those people? Yeah, it's beneath them to work for "chump change".

Not to worry, because of the previous administrations policy of bailing out corporations, and our current administrations policy of bailing out everyone, our children and grandchildren won't have the opportunity's that we did. They will be paying off the debts of their fathers.

[Ikonoklast]

33. Hope you never get a debilitating illness.

Or get crippled in an industrial accident.


Yes, luck has EVERYTHING to do with it.


You'll find out one day.

[Hansel]

44. Self-delete. nt

[Hansel]

43. You seem to have a knack for picking out extreme scenarios and

trying to apply them in general to everyday Americans.

There are over 10 millions foreclosure in the U.S so far and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of those people are not people with MBA's who just refuse to work for less.

If you are so worried about your children and grandchildren paying off our debts, then maybe you should be on the forefront of campaigning to repeal Bush's tax cuts. In fact, you should be calling for the American people to buck up and pay more taxes to pay off the war debt since Americans re-elected Bush.

My father not only passed down a work ethic, he also passed down a moral ethic and a sense of community. He also made sure I was not a self-absorbed pompous ass with such a low opinion of people in need.

[jschurchin]

70. Don't sell yourself short

He also made sure I was not a self-absorbed pompous ass with such a low opinion of people in need.

Anyone who is willing to burden their children and grandchildren with a mountain of debt to satisfy their own selfish needs, is indeed a pompous ass.

I don't fool myself into thinking that the morons in congress and the senate will use any increase in receivables to pay down that debt. Both political parties have proven themselves unable to spend less then they take in. And it isn't the budget spending thats the problem, it's the unexpected expenditures that are killing our nation, or in the case of the Bush administration, not including the spending on Iraq and Afghanistan in the budget. It's killing us, but you seem unable to see this.

It's not one party or the other, they both have their fun, i.e. Part "D" the $1 Trillion gift to Big Pharma, or TARP the $800 Billion gift to Wall Street, or Our Stimulus another $800 Billion that has done what exactly? And lets not forget Mortgage Modification which cost us another $50-100 Billion and that has done.............?

I live in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, from 1982 until 1993 we lost hundreds of thousands of jobs along with hundreds of peoples lives at their own hands. Homes were foreclosed on left and right here because people lost their jobs. Guess what jughead, we didn't go running to the government saying bail us out, bail us out, our kids will pay for it. We went the live in our cars route. We did what we had to do to survive, wanna know why? Because we are PROUD FUCKING DEMOCRATS. Thats why.

That said, do I want the tax cuts to expire? I do indeed. I want all income to be taxed. Dividend income that now is 15% should be taxed at whatever the rate is for the recipient i.e. if your in the 35% bracket it's taxed at 35%, it's only fair.

[Diamonique]

39. Unbelievable

So, no my friend, stupid people aren't the ones who get laid off. They are the ones who stay laid off because they haven't invested the time to make themselves marketable in a very difficult economy. Or the ones who are unwilling to do anything it takes to gain employment because it is beneath them.

WTF are you talking about? In today's economy a person can take all the classes and training in the world and they'll still have to deal with the fact that THERE ARE NO JOBS!!

I can't believe all the RW talking points I see on this forum.

[Hansel]

49. Or the people calling other people stupid that...

maybe shouldn't be throwing stones.

[jschurchin]

71. I guess you have

Never stood in a pit filled with human shit and piss, making $10 a hour to feed your self, huh? Or how about dragging some rich fucking Republicans golf clubs around a country club to make a few bucks?

Yeah I know, there are no Fucking Jobs.

[KingFlorez]

20. Right-wing logic

[jschurchin]

23. Common Sense Logic.

I am a registered Democrat and have been my entire life. The pity party whoa is me logic has no place in politics, especially Democratic politics.

For some people, this is beyond their level of comprehension.

[BootinUp]

9. You have just become a tool of th RW.

my guess anyways.

[AngryAmish]

12. This would just be part of the butthurt trifecta for me

1. Bought house too early to get a check for buying a house.

2. Car trade in was not a clunker. No check for us.

3. Bought a house with a large enough downpayment to not be underwater now. Close, but not underwater. Also not a Freddie or Fannie loan - bank still owns it.

So the net result is I get to pay for other people's houses and cars.


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[My Good Babushka]

13. An unemployed man over 50

shot himself in the head recently because he lost his home, car, and had been looking for work for over two years. But I guess you'd rather your taxes went to Wall St. or more wars. Are you sure you are in the right political community here?

[Mimosa]

34. My Good Babushka, there are some hardhearted DINOS here

In case you haven't noticed there are quite a few people posting on D.U. who may claim to be Dems but when it comes to economic and health care issues their posts show they are not far apart from Mitch McConnell.

[high density]

35. I think the point is that nearly everybody is hurting

But there is only a subset of this hurting population that is getting targeted for help, and a potentially large subset of that population made really bad or plain ignorant decisions. The people who are barely scraping by but have been prudent with their housing choice are being ignored.

[Hansel]

41. OMG, whaaa!

I'm one of those people and could care less. Others need help and I have no problem with them getting it and paying for it. I'm also not particularly keen on having a bunch of foreclosed homes on my block destroying my home's value either.

This is America. We are a community. It's part of being a part of a community to give a damn not only about yourself, but your neighbors and how it all impacts your community.

I far prefer that to subsidizing oil companies and blowing people up with our bombs.

[Dawgs]

54. Some that were 'prudent with their housing choices' are still underwater.

It's sad to see that some comment on this topic without having knowledge of what's really going on.

[RBInMaine]

17. Blame to go around. Some due to very bad lending practices on the part of the banks. Some due to

very bad decisions on the part of SOME consumers who got in way over their heads. People needed to make better decisions. I myself was approved for about $35,000 more than I could really afford. I didn't take the bait. I borrowed what I could afford, got into a good FIXED rate, and have now re-financed under an even better fixed rate taking nine years off my term and building equity much faster.

People who got in way over their heads and made bad decisions should not be helped. They need to get out of those bloated situations and downsize their lives into reality. Too many lost their shirts by playing the "buy and flip houses" get-rich-quick game on investment properties. They were foolish, risked everything, and lost. ** One thing good that should come out of all this is a correction in the housing market and an end to the stupid housing speculation and everyone needing to outdo the Joneses. Too many Americans got greedy needing the biggest car, the biggest house, and on and on. People went on a credit spree. Not everyone, but we need to get back to responsible personal finance again. AND, the banks that made the stupid risky loans and which have now failed deserved to fail, some of those people should be fired and/or sued and/or prosecuted, and the new regs should make damn sure they aren't allowed to do it again. Blame and consequences to go around.

Those who are innocent victims of unemployment and were otherwise responsible should certainly be helped, along with those who are just innocent collateral victims of the market circumstances. But to those who just made shitty decisions and should have known better, it is time to downsize your life and start making better financial decisions. Stop being greedy. Life is not all about material wealth and status.

[Hansel]

42. I doubt very much that flip houses will be included in this.

And I'm betting their will be some means testing attached to this.

[dsc]

29. the article is pretty much bald speculation

so it is hard to comment on it one way or the other. That said, a blanket policy of writing off below water mortgages strikes me as quite unfair to those who were responsible and even more so to those who rent. Ideally, a case by case basis would be used here but the banks clearly refuse to do anything like that, so we are left with a choice of nothing or a blanket solution. Between those, I honestly think a blanket solution may be needed.

[flpoljunkie]

37. I agree. The banks have left the president little or no choice.

[Kweli4Real]

30. Who left the screen door open ...

Now the house is full of fLIES!

While this article might be speculation, I hope that people understand that such a move as this will stabilize the housing market almost over night, albeit it at a significantly lower price as people pay for the lowest appraisal money can buy. This could have been accomplished if legislation had been to force cram downs before foreclosure.

[flpoljunkie]

36. Congress fail! Banks said no to cramdowns. And, they, of course, prevailed.

[Leontius]

38. You gambled on the real estate market and you lost. Sorry

about your luck. I do however think that a modification of loan value to current value as of say Sept 2010 if such an action is taken would be in order if at the same time a second mortgage is placed on the home becoming payable when the value rises to the original loan value.

[Hansel]

45. Most people buy their home to live in.

They do not look at it primarily as an investment. They are not gambling rather they are building a life and home and family.

[Leontius]

53. Investment or home, still a gamble

that's just the nature of the market, fair or not the problem has hit both the same.

[phleshdef]

46. Thats pure Republican-esque apathy for middle class families living underwater.

[Leontius]

50. Republican-esque apathy, how so?

Did you even read the whole post? I offer a way to get out from under a mortgage they can't afford ( temporarily lowered loan value, lower payments) and offer a way for creditors to still get back their loan value when market prices change and the home owner is able to pay as the economy recovers. How is that apathy?

[Dawgs]

52. Not everyone can get a loan modification, and not everyone was gambling.

Some are just in a situation that need to move and will lose tens of thousands when they sell.

[Leontius]

55. Modifications should be mandatory under this type of plan

banks and lenders should have no choice, only the homeowner, modification they can afford and agreement to pay the value set aside(call it a second mortgage) when the market recovers and the ability to pay is there or foreclosure or sell at a loss, give the consumer the choice not the lender.

[phleshdef]

57. Suggesting that buying a home is "gambling on the real estate" market for starters.

People that buy one home to live in aren't doing it to gamble. They are doing it to have a place to live while not throwing money away to renting. But when a situation occurs that the housing value drops tremendously because the US economy wasn't doing its job and then massive job losses occur at the same time, you end up with a bunch of people facing the possibility of selling their house or foreclosing. And if the value has dropped that much on the house, the end up selling it while still having a very large principle left on the loan. No house and more debt. If the US economy had been doing what its suppose to do, they wouldn't be in that situation. We pay taxes to subsidize the government and the job of the government is to take those resources and keep the ship afloat. The government and its regulatory mechanisms failed to do that job. So now we have a bunch of people that, at the time of getting their house, could easily afford it, lost their jobs and lost a ton of value on their home. Many of those people weren't just going out and getting stuff they couldn't afford. They could afford it fine until the point where the government lost control of the economy. Because government didn't do its job, it now should do something to try and rectify the situation as best it can so that these people don't end up homeless and in massive amounts of debt for a home that they don't even own anymore. You let too many people end up that way and we will have a REAL depression on our hands.

But back to my point, telling middle class families "sorry for your luck", when they were living responsibly in an economy whos caretakers weren't returning that sense of responsibility, is pure Republican-esque apathy towards social injustices caused by a government that was asleep at the switch.

[Leontius]

62. Sorry but that's just bullshit .

15% of surrenders are made by people who can still afford their payments they just don't want to pay. People who have lost their jobs usually can't make their payments whether or not they owe more than the current value or not. This is about people who bought more than they could afford, some were duped by lenders some weren't, they just made a bet that values would continue to rise to cover what they couldn't pay now, they didn't, so "Sorry about your luck". Now instead of crying "social injustice" fix the damn problem. Punish the unscrupulous lenders and offer help to their victims but stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth just fix the damn problem. Every economic choice we make is a "gamble" some work out and some don't and we don't control the outcomes most times.

[KansasVoter]

47. Bailing out people who are stupid or trying to make a quick buck pisses me off.

[Hansel]

48. Yes, I'm sure that describes exactly what is happening here...

We are in the worst recession in many decades caused by corruption and super greed of the wealthiest Americans, but it is clear that absolutely everyone who is underwater in their mortgages is in that situation because they were trying to make a quick buck or were particularly stupid. Not.

You might want to think of it as bailing yourself out If you own a home, your own homes value will continue to drop. Foreclosed property destroys communities and become crime magnet. If the bleeding doesn't stop on mortgage foreclosures, it is going to take much longer to get out from under this recession and jobs are not going to come back as quickly as if this was resolved.

[KansasVoter]

63. If you don't think people try to speculate and make money you are gullible as hell!

[Hansel]

65. Right back at you if you believe everyone in this mess does.

The percentage is very small. I work at a bank, for a period of time as an analyst in credit card collections and my daughter worked in mortgage services. I have some knowledge on the subject. I also grew up in some a very poor neighborhood and worked in the inner city for a decade at a community service organization.

The vast majority of people are not in the categories you are talking about. Does it make you feel superior to pretend that everyone in need is some con person? That they don't legitimately work as hard or maybe harder than you do but their circumstances put them in a bad place? Too many years of the Reagans of the world using the most vulnerable as examples of people you don't want to be like to get people to vote for them?

You're living in a cynical fantasy world that doesn't exist wholesale like you pretend it does.

Let's talk about people taking tax payer money from others. Let's talk about Kansas case in point, because I assume you are from Kansas by your name. Kansas gets $1.12 back in federal taxes for every dollar they pay in. Those of us from Minnesota get only $.72 for every dollar we pay in. Maybe those of us in Minnesota should be tired of Kansas being a "welfare state". But for some reason this quite Liberal state isn't whining about that. I don't really care because I believe Kansas needs it. It's what being a good American citizen is all about.

Edit to add: Speculators known as flippers have been excluded from government mortgage programs so far and there is no reason to believe this won't continue. Even so, the vast majority of people who are upside down in their mortgages are not speculators. They are people who are losing their homes.

[KansasVoter]

66. When did I say EVERYONE? And I know 4 people at work who did....

speculate and got bail out help!

The government spends very little time weeding out the abusers and that is an issue even if you will not admit it.

And when we ask for more money to help those really in need the GOP uses examples of the speculators to vote no!

[Hansel]

67. If it is an issue it is a minor one and a gamble I'm willing to take.

We don't have time to pussy foot around about a relatively small number of people who might abuse the system. It's not a good enough reason to hold up further programs.

And for every abuser you know there are thousands who need the help while people like you focus on this crap. There are stringent requirements to get HAMP money and they only processed 250,000 of 10 million in foreclosure because of it in the 1st year of the program. It takes forever so I doubt very much that 4 people you work with got "bailed out" illegitimately. But if you know 4 people who got help illegitimately maybe you should turn them in if your concerned enough about it to stall the program until many who legitimately need the help lose their homes.

You have to be an owner-occupier to get HAMP money and the most units you can own is 4. If this is what you are referring to as speculation, I have to said "big whopping deal". Who cares.

I'm sorry, but you are barking up the wrong tree here. I have absolutely no empathy for your argument. People need help now and I don't really care about a comparatively small number of people who might get something you don't think they deserve. There are a hell of a lot bigger fish to fry in that category with corporations and war profiteers. If some little guy gets an extra dime so be it. I'm more concerned with stopping the mortgage crisis, and saving homes and jobs.

[KansasVoter]

68. I am not!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jennicut]

56. Most of the people who went under lost their jobs or were underemployed.

My own cousin was in this situation.

[KansasVoter]

64. And I am 100% fine helping them! But they need to research who they are helping!

[phleshdef]

58. Sounds just like the "unemployed are lazy people with no skills that don't wanna work" rhetoric.

Nice way to expose yourself for what you REALLY think.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

60. Then become a fucking Republican already

Your rhetoric will fit right in

[flpoljunkie]

72. What about people who were conned by unscrupulous mortgage brokers with subprime mortgages when they

were eligible for a regular mortgage? Does that bother you, too?

There is no program, nor will there be, that helps those who flipped houses. Only those who are living in their homes have received help--as little and ineffective as it has been.

[flpoljunkie]

73. Update: Treasury denies this is being considered.

Update: Treasury denies that this is being considered, with a spokesperson saying: "The administration is not considering a change in policy in this area." So we'll see what actually happens in the big August conference.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/08/a-new-800-billion-stimulus-through-fannie-and-freddie/61007/