I KNEW it would eventually be called a "flip-flop"!

[jenmito]

I'm so sick of the pundits/tv hosts claiming that Obama "stepped back from," "backed off," "backed away from" his remarks Friday night about having the right to build a mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero. And finally, subbing for Ed Schultz tonight, Cenk Uygur claimed that Obama "flip-flopped" on what he said Friday night. He even made it the day's question-whether or not Obama flip-flopped on building a mosque near Ground Zero. (BTW-25% said "yes.") Then he conveniently played only the parts of the clips on both Friday and then on Saturday which supposedly made his case. I'll put in bold the parts he played and the rest is what Obama said but was NOT played today:

Friday night: "...That is not to say that religion is without controversy. Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities - particularly in New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."

Saturday morning (in response to a QUESTION-not a "clarification" that the WH put out):

"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there." I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. In this country, we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion."

And when the media people started saying Obama backed away from what he said Friday night, THEN the WH put out a statement:

"Just to be clear, the President is not backing off in any way from the comments he made last night. It is not his role as President to pass judgment on every local project. But it is his responsibility to stand up for the Constitutional principle of religious freedom and equal treatment for all Americans.

What he said last night, and reaffirmed today, is that If a church, a synagogue or a Hindu temple can be built on a site, you simply cannot deny that right to those who want to build a Mosque.

The World Trade Center site is hallowed ground, where 3000 Americans-Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Muslims were the victims of a cold-blooded massacre. We are still at war with the small band of terrorists who planned and executed that attack.

But that does not give government the right to deny law-abiding Americans of one faith the same rights you would accord anyone else."

[sandnsea]

1. They lie as bad as Fox News

and then wonder why they're hated as bad as Fox News. Fucking nitwitted idiots.

[jenmito]

2. I know! I was so disgusted! n/t

[tularetom]

3. From day one it didn't matter what he said

He was going to be roasted on a spit over a fire prepared by the usual suspects (lunatic fringe) and stoked by the liberal media.

What he said in both cases was 100% correct, perfectly logical, and absolutely consistent. But in retrospect it now appears that this whole episode was cooked up just to create a controversy.

STFU would have been an option but they would have nailed him for that too.

Just another fake issue to divert the dumshits from the real issues.

[Pirate Smile]

4. The part that needs to stop is people on the left slamming him for it or buying into the

"backed off" crap.

They should know better.

We know what we will get from the right. It would be nice if we could stick together on something like this.

[flpoljunkie]

5. Cenk seemed surprised that 75% said President Obama had not flipped on this issue

Count me in the 75%.

[jenmito]

8. I know-he said, "I guess the people have spoken."

I'm glad 75% disagreed with him. Count me in there, too.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. If it is such hallowed ground, and they are putting an office

building there, what exactly does 'hallowed' mean? I really don't get that part. It is an office building they are putting in, a few of them, and a wee memorial, but lots of office space. I do not know if they can charge extra for office space because it is 'hallowed' but I'm sure they will try.

[Empowerer]

7. According to Joe Scarbororough of all people, there are strip clubs much closer to Ground Zero ...

But, of course, that's different . . .

[tammywammy]

9. It's so hallowed it needs to be celebrated with two gigantic office towers

*shakes head*

[Arkana]

10. The media is desperate to gin up a shitstorm

where there is none, and Obama's language unfortunately left an opening--even though it sounds pretty clear to anyone with half a brain.

[jenmito]

12. Last night, Jon Stewart pulled the same stuff, playing just the short clips of what

Obama said Friday night and then Saturday, acting all disappointed that he changed his position, showing Obama's slogan as, "Yes We Can...but should we?"-and this morning, when they (of course) played that clip on Morning Joe, MIKA, of all people, said, paraphrasing, "That's tired. It's not funny-he didn't change his position. He said the same thing both times."

[BeyondGeography]

11. Way to go, Cenk

Dipshit.

[jenmito]

13. I'm glad most people disagreed with him in his poll. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

15. Likewise

[Igel]

14. Of course it would be called a flip-flop.

People claim to understand nuance, but they can't understand wholly obvious 24-point black and white text when it's put in front of them.

Many people are loony in that they assume that somehow laws = morality and ethics. There is no daylight between them.

If you have a right to do something, it's right to do it at all times. This is obviously wrong: Palin could call Obama all sorts of epithets and we wouldn't say she's right to do it. Many would argue that she has a right to do it, but still should shut up. Few would argue that it's immoral and oppressive to tell her to be quiet on the matter. Sometimes I think these people are confused by the homophony between "right" in the nominal expression "legal right" and the adjectival use in "right conduction."

Then there are those who argue that morality and ethics would be encoded in a fine-grained legal system. That if something shouldn't be done, it mustn't be done and it should be illegal. This is also obviously wrong: They would want speech codes, saying that there's no excuse for allowing intolerant thought or speech, although exactly what defines "intolerant" has to be phrased to perfectly suit them, no other definers need apply.

The cultural center and mosque are perfectly legal; they have a right to build it. Granted, for many it's like having a Japanese cultural center at Pearl Harbor, or perhaps an American cultural outreach center (one that only portrays the US in a positive light, of course, essentially proselytizing) near "ground zero" in Nagasaki. That the Cordoba initiative thinks that things like this encourage dialog shows a truly enormous sense of cultural blindness, but nobody said (or perhaps, "nobody should say") that's criminal. Then again, the Cordoba folk apparently think the Almohads were pretty nice guys, all willing to marry their daughters off to Jews, Xians, and Hindus alike because they're all held in such high esteem and intercultural accommodation is a glorious thing. (Then again, nobody said ignorance of history is criminal, either.)

[Radical Activist]

16. The same media pundits who told us Obama was backing away from HCR.

Just turn it off. The corporate media is garbage.

[firedupdem]

17. +1 n/t