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Howard Dean op-ed defending his opinion on moving the building (updated)

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:52 AM
Original message
Howard Dean op-ed defending his opinion on moving the building (updated)
Edited on Thu Aug-19-10 12:05 PM by ProSense

Why I back a mosque compromise

The builders want to build it as a healing gesture, but healing is impossible without dialogue

By Howard Dean

Last night, I asked Dean to record a podcast interview with me about his position. Thus far, he has submitted a written response to what I wrote here for publication on Salon, which is re-printed below in full. For me, several questions remain about his rationale, as well as some new ones raised by this statement, and it's still my hope that he'll be willing to answer some of those questions and have a discussion about his views:

First of all I am not going to back off. The reaction did surprise me because most of the negative reaction had to do with defending the constitutional rights of the builders of the center. Of course I never attacked those rights, I explicitly supported them as the President also did this week. Nor did I side with the Islamophobic rhetoric of Newt, Palin et al. There are a great many people in this debate talking past each other as is often the case these days.

Here is my case. First, no one who understands the American Constitution can reasonably doubt the right of the builders to build. Secondly, the building site is very close to the site of a violent tragedy that seared the soul of every American including Muslim Americans. Thirdly, the builders of the proposed Islamic Center say they want to help heal the nation and there is a preponderance of evidence that that is true, based not least on the fact that the last administration viewed the leadership of this group as a. pro American bridge to the Muslim world.

Fourth, there are many Americans, about 65 or 70 percent, including many family members of the victims, who have very strong emotional resistance to building on this site. Some of them may have other feelings such as hate, fear, etc. but the vast majority of these people are not right wing hate mongers.

My argument is simple. This Center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not. No doubt the Republic will survive if this center is built on its current site or not. But I think this is a missed opportunity to try to have an open discussion about why this is a big deal because it is a big deal to a lot of Americans who are not just right wing politicians pushing the hate button again. I think those people need to be heard respectfully whether they are right or whether they are wrong.

more

Yeah, Rosa Parks should have considered the feelings of the rest of the passengers and civil rights opponents before taking a seat in the front of the bus.

Updated to add this from Glenn Greenwald

The mere fact that a majority of Americans hold a particular view -- including perfectly nice and well-meaning people -- doesn't mean the view is free from bigotry and irrational fear. Does anyone doubt that? The history of most nations is suffused with episodes whereby perfectly well-intentioned people ingested -- unwittingly or otherwise -- irrational and even horrific positions about a whole host of matters. As for why opposition to Park 51 is necessarily and by definition grounded in classic bigotry -- i.e., all Muslims bear responsibility for the 9/11 attack -- see my NYT contribution here. For how that bigotry expresses itself in practice among project opponents, see here and here. The central question raised by this controversy is the same one raised by countless similar controversies throughout American history: whether the irrational fears and prejudices of the majority should be honored and validated or emphatically confronted. That question, and several other issues raised by Dean's response, are what I hope to discuss with him.


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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry Howard. Good people having their feelings hurt for irrational reasons...
...is not something we should all have to dance around. If we start that kind of precedent, no one will be able to do anything.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Disappointing. Dean perhaps spoke before he thought this through, and now can't go back.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. He could. He backed off wanting the healthcare bill killed.
I think Dean is a very empathetic person. In this instance though, his sense of empathy is between a rock and a hard place and he is going with the rock.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Dean has done that on some issues, but he prides himself on sticking to his guns
The only thing truly bad here is the fact that he STILL fosters the idea in at least one sentence that it is on ground zero. It isn't and there's no way you even see it from there.

As to his compromise - or the Governor's, is there a comparable size plot in lower Manhattan - sufficiently far from ground zero to satisfy those who care? Why lower Manhattan, because that is where the community wanting it is - putting it in upstate NY doesn't work.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sorry, but racists' "feelings" don't deserve consideration, Howard.
I'm sorry I ever supported him now.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. No, no, take a survey
Rosa should have had the bus company take a survey about how the white folks would feel if they were forced to sit next to a black person on a bus. And she should have given them a year or two to figure out how to impliment it.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Should have kept your mouth shut, Doc
This is going to be the gift that keeps on giving for Republicans right on through October, from the looks of it.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can't support Dean on this. He seems to think
that just because a bunch of racist reactionaries are opposing it that it shouldn't happen.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. From the guy that told me to watch out for "God, Guns and Gays" in an election cycle...
Howard is buying into the "God" ploy big time here.

Maybe he is trying to out-flank the republican god-squad.

I think he should acknowledge that it's a ZONING issue
and everyone else should just BUTT OUT.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. I'm going to try and defend him (to a point)
I think there are 2 different things here to consider. 1) the republicans using religion and fear for political wedge issue. 2) relations between the muslim community and the rest of the country. I think Dean is more concerned about 2 than 1. I will not defend him on pressuring the muslim group to move the mosque.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. He's digging himself a deeper hole.
How's he ever going to crawl out of this one?
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm disappointed in Howard Dean over this issue
He's wrong on this issue. There were American Muslims, who died in the World Trade Center, and this country ignores that. And since the people of NYC and Mayor Bloomberg, a Jew, support it, those who live outside NYC have no business meddling in this issue.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. the building is too large to move
i thought a doctor would understand this. :sarcasm:
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. More disappointment from Dean on this issue....ugh. n/t
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. You're wrong Dean. I still love ya though.
Edited on Thu Aug-19-10 12:51 PM by mkultra
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. if the xtian 9/11ers want to fake it a shrine to 9/11, PRETTY it up.
it's a lovely old building. i'd prefer the islamic center got rid of sometjing tacky from the 70's. blegh.

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. When you're in a hole...
When a respected "progressive" white man demands that a demonized, slandered, persecuted minority consider the "sensitivities" of a bigoted dominant culture (NOT EVEN A LOCAL ONE) that can barely tolerate their presence, we're so far down the rabbit hole that we may suffocate before emerging in China. :rofl:

Dr. Dean is OBVIOUSlY mis-, under-, ill-informed. His bow to the white supremacist default position in this instance does NOT speak well of him. I can only hope he will reconsider his stance. I feel the same way I have throughout my life hearing the n-word fall from the lips of someone I'd considered a friend, peer and compatriot. :cry:
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hurt feelings are no excuse for dumping on the 1st amendment.
Besides, I think the hurt feelings meme is complete and utter bullshit.

Take alook around, NYers, Muslims are EVERYWHERE around ground Zero and so are mosques. Of couse, they aren't planning to build another mosque -- it's a fucking cultural center.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. There is no defense for bigotry, intolerance and a willingness to see
our Constitutionally protected liberties.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. Love ya Howard, but you are wrong on this.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. Dean is concerned that heated rhetoric will
Edited on Thu Aug-19-10 11:22 PM by BootinUp
be counterproductive, at least thats what I heard him say on Olberman. I think its a valid concern, but all that means is that serious discussion should avoid heated rhetoric. He also seems to be urging the muslim community to discuss the issue carefully. I didn't hear him, on Olberman, suggest that they should build it elsewhere. I see that the Op-ed here does suggest that, this is where he is quite in error.

btw, in case I wasn't clear on this above, I am strongly in favor of continuing this debate in support of the community/mosque center.

edited: the Op Ed is different than what I heard him say on Olberman.
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