The One Big Issue That Would Benefit Obama Immediately and Put The GOP on the Defensive: Outsourcing

[Yavin4]

If I were advising Obama, I would tell him to make outsourcing jobs overseas the central piece of his administration for the next two years. It would be smart politics and smart economics, and it has the benefit of addressing an issue that speaks directly to working and middle class Americans nationwide.

Moreover, it would put the Republicans between their base and their benefactors. By forcing a national debate on outsourcing, the Republicans would have to choose to either back their base or go against the multi-national corporations that fund their party. Republicans have been coasting along on the anger of the working and middle class workers while receiving huge donations from the very corporations that are sending jobs overseas. This contradiction needs to be exposed.

Also, it's good economics. We're never going to recover jobs in the private sector in this country when our workers have to compete with workers who are subsidized by currency rates. The Chinese and Indian worker is not any better than an American worker. The big difference is that the salary of the Chinese and Indian worker are deflated because of the differences in our currencies which are artificially held lower.

Taking on outsourcing is good politics and economics.

[Gormy Cuss]

1. Or more precisely, "offshoring."

Outsourcing also covers jobs that used to be done by employees that are now done by contractors. For example, rather than hiring its own payroll staff a company hires a payroll service, or hires a janitorial firm rather than having its own janitors on the payroll.

Even though there are issues with the practice (lower pay and benefit levels, for example)outsourcing is at least jobs in the U.S.

[kysrsoze]

2. I was shocked the media didn't cover Repub blocking the offshoring bill, while the WH says nothing.

You're right, Yavin. It's just sitting there waiting for them.

If I hadn't heard about the offshoring block on Hardball, I wouldn't have known. Neither the media, nor the White House said ANYTHING about it. You'd think they'd be jumping up and down, yelling, "Looks at these S.O.B.'s and how much they really care about American jobs."

I don't understand why time after time, they say NOTHING about the most horrendous abuses by Repubs right now, like that shitbag DeMint's latest stunt: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130209128

Why isn't Obama, and really, the entire Democratic Party screaming about this? Why do they tolerate endless blocking of judicial nominees, and filibustering EVERYTHING, with almost nothing to say about it?

This is precisely what makes me think things are going to go FAR south over the next few election cycles. Why are Dems such idiots when they get into power?

[Yavin4]

3. Dems Are Either Afraid of or Bought Off by Big Corporations

Like all politicians from the past 30 years, they think that they can play both sides. They can appear populist while also doing the bidding of big corporations. The Republicans do this by going for "social issues" like abortion, Gay marriage, and Family Values. By highlighting these issues, they can look populist all the while what they really do is tax cuts and deregulation.

The Dems use to attack on the economic populist issues like jobs, but too many Dems are now afraid of mighty corporate power. Or, they too have been bought. The problem is they don't have any other non-economic populist issues to turn to like the Republicans do.

So, their only choices are attack on economic populist issues or lose at the polls.

[karynnj]

6. then why did the vast majority of them vote for this bill?

look at the yeas and nays - the two parties are not the same.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00242

[DeeDeeNY]

14. Your outrage is shared by many

One of the reasons the Dems constantly gave for not trying to impeach W was they didn't want to appear obstructive. They said they wanted to move forward and not be divisive. But being divisive and obstructionist is exactly what Rethugs do each and every time. The media is a big culprit in not getting these issues publicized, but why aren't Dems constantly shouting about it and putting them on the defensive? People are so misinformed, it's scary.

[harun]

4. Neither party will address the issue. It is a big win on main st. but their Corporate backers

would take them out to the tool shed.

[karynnj]

7. Then why did Democrats write legislation on it and vote on it

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00242

[jeanpalmer]

10. They voted on cloture

by my reading, not on the bill itself. Who knows what the vote on the bill itself would have been. This strikes me as another granstand vote for Dems -- they show the flag for the working guy and unions, knowing full well the bill will not pass. They used to do the same thing on funding the war when W was president, would make a big scene about voting to cut off funding, Pelosi in the forefront. Never succeed of course. Since Obama was elected and they gained majorities, it's no longer an issue with Dems. It never really was. Same thing here.

[pampango]

16. You're right. We'll never know "what the vote on the bill itself would have been".

Votes for or against cloture are usually a pretty good indicator of how people/parties will vote on the bill itself, but not always. In this case, we'll never know since the repubs filibustered it. Maybe the Democrats would have passed it, if repubs hadn't stopped it coming to a vote (perhaps as a "grandstanding vote", if that makes you happy, thinking the Senate would not act on it).

[karynnj]

19. You are making excuses - the vote was on cloture because the

Republicans insist on cloture for everything. Many Senators issue statements - and I saw none saying that I am against the bill, but think it deserves an up or down vote.

The funding of the war IS different. There has NEVER been a winning vote to cut off funding when the US had troops in the field - even in the Vietnam years. (We did vote against money after the US left.) What the Democrats did was to attach things like a resolution that Bush commit to a timeline - which he ultimately did, but few Democrats pointed out that he was doing what he said he never would do when Democrats who called for it were attacked as quitting and running away - which was NOT what any mainstream Democrat called for.)

[Chan790]

13. Because both mean piss-all in the public sphere...

compared to using it as a blunt object to bludgeon the life out of Republicans and corporatists of both parties.

If we hammered it daily, the way Republicans hammer family-value issues, we'd win decisively...we'd also kiss goodbye the economic support of Wall St. the 3rd-wayers have spent 30 years courting. It's the difference between supporting something in a party-line vote and fiercely advocating for it. The second requires a degree of support well beyond the first.

[ProSense]

5. It is an issue and

it needs to be played up:

GOP blocks Democrats' jobs outsourcing bill

Democrats highlight outsourcing in ads

Weekly Address: President Obama: GOP Leadership Standing up for Outsourcing and Special Interests, Instead of American Workers


Republicans also voted against a $10 billion tax on companies that export jobs.

[frazzled]

18. Yes, I hear Obama mention it in every speech and gathering

And Democrats are campaigning on it. And you can read about it in serious newspapers, etc. But everybody is too busy listening to the last best thing Christina O'Donnell said about Hare Krishnas and meatballs. If it isn't cuckoo, nobody listens. Including here.

The OP's advice to Obama indicates to me that s/he hasn't been listening.

[golfguru]

8. If you have purchased foreign made goods, YOU have outsourced jobs

If you drive a Japanese/Korean car, if you shop at Target/Wal-Mart/K-Mart,
if you buy European wine, if you use TV made in Asia, you are guilty of
outsourcing jobs. IOW we are all guilty of outsourcing jobs.

[whathehell]

11. How many goods are made in the USA anymore?

[golfguru]

21. Huge amount of products still made in USA

Airplanes, military and civilian
GM, Ford & Chrysler cars
Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Dryers
Farm products (grains, poultry, milk, meat)
Fertilizers (largest in the world production)
Processed food items (cereals, processed meats, cheese etc)
Medical equipment used n Hospitals & Medical facilities
Pharmaceuticals (largest in the world)
Microsoft Windows & other major software products
Entertainment products (Hollywood movies, Music CD's, TV shows syndicated worldwide)
Tanks, guns, ammunition, RPG's, Drones

And the list goes on and on.

I can understand why you feel nothing is made in USA anymore.
Because all the easily made products are increasingly made in China and
other low labor cost countries. And most products we buy everyday are
easily manufactured by many countries.

[whathehell]

24. Not enough...

In your extensive list, for instance, I don't see clothing. That is kind of a "basic" and perhaps these are the "easily made" products you speak of.

I always buy American when reasonably possible and I think that most Americans, at least most here at DU, make the same effort...That being said, we need to put on clothes in the morning.

The idea that we are all "responsible" for outsourcing is crap. Decisions to make "easily made" products in areas in which they can exploit the poor to work for the minimum are NOT made collectively...It's made by corporate owners with a LOT more greed than patriotism or social conscience and while you may argue this to be the nature of the beast, it COULD be fought, as it was for years, by a little thing called "tariffs".

The re-reinstatement of tariffs is a measure which would actively discourage outsourcing...You see, some of us are actually old enough to remember when foreign goods cost MORE than those made in America.

[golfguru]

25. Please no tariffs on imported clothes

Then I will not be able to replace my clothes on a regular base.
I am on fixed income and retired. Affordability is high priority for me.

[whathehell]

28. I thought the answer to that was obvious..

Manufacture them here amd they'll be no need.

[golfguru]

30. Most made in USA clothes cost much more than imported

Anywhere from 50 to 100% more. That is too much for
my budget.

[boppers]

34. Most made in USA clothes last longer than imported.

In the long run, they're cheaper.

[golfguru]

36. Actually the best suit I ever had was made in HongKong

It had the best tailoring, and kept it's shape longer,
and the material was excellent.

[boppers]

38. There's always exceptions. :)

My favorite US-based clothing company:
http://www.utilikilts.com/

Looks like they're comfortable enough on the links:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=golf&w=7474015%40N08

[whathehell]

41. Yeah.....

but only because the corporations exploit the poor in third world countries so they can make a 600 percent profit margins.

When we had tarrifs they're greed was kept in check (maybe a mere 200% profit margin) and we made our own clothes and could afford to buy them.

[whathehell]

29. Really?

Then maybe you'll just have to forgo a couple of golf games..

[golfguru]

31. Why you want to deprive me of my only exercise,

recreation, camaraderie, etc?

[whathehell]

40. I don't.

[golfguru]

32. I have purchased 10 brand new cars over 40 years

and every single one of them is American brand, GM(8), Ford (1), Dodge(1)
because of 2 reasons....1) prices were competitive 2) I encourage American made.

But I am not happy to pay 50%, 100% more for American made items such as Clothes,
shoes etc.

[Yavin4]

27. You Cannot Outsource All MFG and IT jobs And Still Have An Economy

Most of the products on your list are indeed made overseas not in the US.

[golfguru]

35. That can't be right

According to 2006 American Community Survey, there are an estimated 152,193,214 adults 16 years and over in the labor force (65% with a +/-114,579 margin of error).

And I am positive not all of them work in retailing or picking tomatoes.

[Yavin4]

42. They Work in Government and the Service Sector

Defend outsourcing all you want. You're just creating a deflationary economy.

[golfguru]

43. Deflation is not harmful to us fixed income folks.

[Yavin4]

44. Oh Yes It Is.

It's far worse than inflation. All those goods and services that we all depend will start disappearing because businesses won't be able to get a price for their efforts.

[golfguru]

45. Are you sure there was a shortage of goods and services

during the great depression?

[Yavin4]

46. Ask Yourself

Why would anyone make anything or provide a service if they cannot get a decent price for it? What would be the point if no one is buying or if you have to mark it do far down that you cannot make a profit?

We're already seeing this with labor. More and more people are taking themselves out of the labor market every day. We're seeing this in housing. Construction of new homes are way down.

[golfguru]

48. I don't think you are correct

Although I was not around during the great depression, I have seen
movies of people lining up for any job they could find.

And I have never come across any article saying there was shortage
of goods. It was just the opposite. The goods such as cars, appliances,
clothes were sitting around unsold.

In today's world, it is impossible to have shortage of goods or services
because 3 Billion people in China & India can manufacture anything and
provide any service.

[Yavin4]

49. Again, Who Will Be Able To Buy These Goods and Services

Look at housing. The markets are getting flooded with foreclosed homes. So, who would be stupid enough to build new ones?

Yes, existing goods will remain, but you don't need to hire anyone to make existing goods.

[golfguru]

51. We are both right

You are right in that who would be stupid enough to build stuff
in the UNITED STATES, which is not selling.

I am right in that plenty of goods will be available from China
and services from India which makes it easier for people like me
living on fixed income. Inflation is the real enemy for us, not
deflation.

But there is no question that deflation/depression will be bad for
people looking for jobs in the US.

[vssmith]

15. What kind of TV do you have?

[golfguru]

20. Made by some outfit named "Esa" n/m

[boppers]

37. Esa is a Funai (Japan) Product

Sylvania is another one of their brands.

If you want a US manufactured television, there's 1 (one!) plant in the US, making Olevia TV's, out of parts shipped in from overseas.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003327303_ustvfactory28.html

[toddwv]

9. Let's hope that the October 'surprise' is

that the Dem's grow a pair and stop skulking in the corner.

[leveymg]

12. Unlike Chinese currency, the Indian Rupee is not pegged to the dollar.

You wrote:

The big difference is that the salary of the Chinese and Indian worker are deflated because of the differences in our currencies which are artificially held lower.

Unlike China, the Indian central bank does not followed a policy of pegging the Indian Rupee to a specific foreign currency at a particular exchange rate. Intervention in currency markets is solely to deliver low volatility in the exchange rates, and not to take a view on the rate or direction of the Indian rupee in relation to other currencies.

Indian wages are not "deflated because of the differences in our currencies." In fact, Indian wages in the IT sector have risen dramatically in recent years, and there are concerns that Indian IT workers are no longer cost competitive with some other developing countries.

Currency manipulation by India does not account for the loss of the jobs base in the United States. The primary cause, instead, is a strategy being pursued by huge U.S.-based multinational corporations to offshore operations and their refusal to repatriate retained earnings for reinvestment in the U.S. Offshoring was made in the USA by U.S.-based companies, and we need to deal with them.

China is a different matter, and may require a separate approach.

[Yavin4]

17. The Exchange Rate is 50 Rupees to the Dollar

A top flight IT programmer in India makes about $40,000 US. In the U.S., that same top flight programmer would make at least $125,000. That explains the entire march to Indian IT outsourcing, period.

I'm not saying that Indian ITers are bad. I'm just saying that the population of ITers in Indian is similar to the population of ITers in the US and Euorope. The difference is that the Indian ITer is vastly cheaper than their American and European counterparts because of differences in currency.

[golfguru]

22. So how is a company employing Americans going to compete

with another American company who outsources to the 1/3rd cost Indians?

There is no solution to this problem. If they made it illegal to outsource,
every software product company in US will go bankrupt. And all products
will be imported.

Someday in distant future, wages will equalize in all countries. The trend is there
already. But it will take decades before that happens.

[Yavin4]

23. American Cannot Compete and Won't Compete for Very Long

The solution to the problem would be higher tarriffs on goods and services made in countries with an extremely unfavorable exchange rate.

This can be done because we do this all of the time with agriculture. We subsidize our agro businesses and slap tarriffs on imports.

The reason why we do this on agriculture is due to the fact that we have several senators from states whose main business is agriculture.

[golfguru]

26. I can only agree in cases where

the countries do not float the exchange rate of their currency.
Good example is China which uses a FIXED exchange rate with US dollar.
By keeping their Yuan artificially cheaper they make it easier to sell
their goods in US and make it harder for US goods to sell in China.

[David Zephyr]

33. Yes. Yes. And Yes.

K&R.

[FBaggins]

39. Far too late to make it an effective campaign issue.

They can't hold a vote on it, so there's no way to get on the record, and it could backfire.

Some of those votes that are supposedly impacting the congressional races could hurt in that environment. TARP also sent money to overseas banks... the auto bailouts saved a bunch of jobs in other countries... a large number of the "clunker" program cars that were purchased were made elsewhere.

[Yavin4]

47. For this Election, You're Right. Going Forward Though

It would create a major schism between the Tea Partiers and the Republican establishment.

[Hello_Kitty]

50. Too many Dem elitists heart them some "free trade"

And the more populist ones who oppose it will be swamped by Citizens United $$$$$.

[txlibdem]

52. I see a timid start to the talk of outsourcing

It's a positive sign to me but they need to spread the message about the differences between R's and D's where it comes to outsourcing and off-shoring. This one of the 10 issues they need to pound into the R's in every campaign ad, on every billboard, etc.