Regarding the "Whiners"

[babylonsister]

Regarding the "Whiners"

Tuesday 05 October 2010

by: William Rivers Pitt, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed


(Image: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t; Adapted: David Katz / Obama for America, Gideon Tsang)


I have a confession to make. When I read the excerpt of President Obama's interview with Rolling Stone where he took a big, fat slap at the Left in general and the Democratic base in particular for "complaining," and for their lack of enthusiasm for the upcoming midterm elections, well, I have to admit that it gave me quite a bit of grim satisfaction.

I'm sorry, but it's true, and I will tell you why.

I've been working in politics for a long time, and all of it from the left side of the dial. I am proud to be a member of the big tent that I believe is the majority of the country; from moderate to far left, our numbers are demographically superior to those on the right. The problem with that big tent is, well...what do you find under a big tent? That's right, a circus.

There is so much angst and strife and infighting on the liberal end of things in America that sometimes, every once in a while, it is actually refreshing to hear an Obama or a Gibbs or a Biden get exasperated and say something to the effect of, "Oh, for the love of God, please just shut up! And vote! And shut up again!"

I've had the urge to say those exact words many times, and have gone ahead and said them on more than a few occasions, because sometimes I just want to punch myself in the face listening to all the bellowing and bellyaching and backbiting that goes on between any of the ten million micro-factions that riddle the left in this country. Right off the top of my head, here is a small list of the fights I have been seeing, hearing and getting sucked into on an almost daily basis for years and years now. In no particular order:

* Democrats are better vs. both parties are the same
* Voting matters vs. voting is pointless
* Nader's great vs. Nader sucks (a larger version of "Nader cost Gore Florida in 2000" vs. "No, no, no, not true, and Gore sucked anyway")
* Israel vs. Palestine (the great-granddaddy of them all)
* PETA vs. the omnivores
* Soldiers are good vs. soldiers are evil
* Democrat vs. liberal vs. progressive vs. socialist vs. communist vs. those who just need something to complain about
* Iraq immediate withdrawal vs. timetable
* Afghanistan immediate withdrawal vs. timetable
* LGBT people deserve equal rights now vs. LGBT people need to let the Democrats keep their powder dry until the country is ready for that kind of reform
* The problem is the media vs. the problem is the voting machines vs. the problem is corporate personhood vs. stop arguing, you're all correct
* 9/11 was an inside job vs. 9/11 was a tragedy (this one has too many sub-basements to lay out in full)
* Kerry supporters vs. Dean supporters vs. Edwards supporters vs. Clark supporters vs. Graham supporters vs. Kucinich supporters vs. Gephardt supporters vs. Lieberman supporters (yes, there were a few) during the 2004 primaries, and the resulting hangover of resentment that still lingers today
* Obama supporters vs. Clinton supporters vs. Kucinich supporters again vs. Dodd supporters vs. Vilsack supporters vs. Edwards supporters again vs. Gravel supporters vs. Bayh supporters during the 2008 primaries, and all the residual scarring and anger and crowing and slagging and bragging that went on throughout which left an ocean of bad feelings that have only begun to fade

...and finally, of course...

* Obama is doing fine vs. Obama is a total failure

more...

http://www.truth-out.org/regarding-whiners63728

[bbinacan]

1. I'll vote but

I damn well will not shut up. If I'm told by this administration one more to to just vote and shut up, I won't vote. Can you tell I'm pissed off?:mad:

[muffin1]

2. +1

If I see one more post like this, I might sit out the election. x(

[babylonsister]

5. So there's no room for other pov's besides yours? How

Democratic of you.

[muffin1]

8. Those are your words, not mine.

Have a difference of opinion? Sure, bring it on. Insult me by calling me a "whiner" because I have legitimate issues with President Obama? Fine also...just don't ask for my help.

[displacedvermoter]

46. I've been gone for a friggin' week and I seeyou are still spewing this

crap. This is the best you have to GOTV, to inspire the troops, to convince the doubters?

Please stop this nonsense.

[Inuca]

37. A post would make sit out the election?

How very idealistic of you!

[muffin1]

41. Of course not.

I was blowing off steam. I am sick to death of the "whiners" and "losers" threads, though. Guess I thought it was safer to say that than what I really wanted to say.

[Inuca]

60. Blowing off some steam can be good for your health :-) n/t

[cliffordu]

44. BUh BYE!!!

I get so tired of the fucking threats.

:eyes:

[muffin1]

45. Do you work for the Obama administration?

You seem to have their way with winning over voters. I worked very hard for Obama's election, and I have a perfect right to be angry at some of his policies. You guys think you can call us 'losers' and 'whiners' and then complain when we balk at your bullshit? Get over yourself. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[dionysus]

48. i think you are the one who needs to get over themselves.

[cliffordu]

52. Yep, what you said.

[muffin1]

54. Well, that's a horse of a different color.

If YOU think it, it must be so! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[joe black]

65. Not going anywhere.

Just not voting. Too many 155 rounds to the head or what.

[dionysus]

47. if an internet post makes you not vote, you're a very petty person.

[muffin1]

55. I stated over an hour and a half before you posted your 'petty remark'

that I was merely blowing steam last night. A person can take being called a 'whiner' and a 'loser' so many times before they snap.

And let me say that I am DEVASTATED that you don't like me. DEVASTATED. How will I EVER be able to carry on, knowing that dionysus finds me petty? Oh, NOES!!11!! My life is surely over. :cry:

[Honeycombe8]

62. You take your voting rights pretty lightly, if you let others sway you so easily. nt

[damonm]

3. Yes, I can.

How's that working for you?

[bbinacan]

4. Not worth a

fuck so far.

[damonm]

50. OK, so I'd suggest you quit on it...

...for your own well-being, if nothing else. Yes, you are angry, yes, you are disappointed. I share the latter, and gave up on the former - wasn't doing my blood pressure one damn bit of good, nor was it affecting in the least those with whom I was angry.
But methinks your anger may be misdirected. Obama, above all else, is a pragmatist (albeit one with a thankfully progressive bent), and will go for what he believes he can actually get. For instance, with health care - he knew from the get-go that single-payer (what I would prefer, and I'll wager long odds that you agree there) was DOA, and so talk went to a public option - which he got from the House, but LIEberman blocked in the Senate - so THAT went bye-bye, and we got what we got. I don't care much for handing the f#(&ing crooks in the insurance industry 30 million new customers, but I'll take it as long as the "pre-existing condition" BS goes away. And now, once it takes full effect, millions will be able to afford going to the doctor that couldn't before.
Learn to be content (NOT satisfied - there's a significant difference) with partial victories, while continuing to work for what you think is right, as I've learned to do.

Make DAMN certain you get out and vote in November to keep the GOP out, if nothing else. because, however piss-poor the current crop of Democrats are, they are at least, neither dangerously insane nor absolutely in the pocket of the moneyed interests. With democrats in majority, we have a chance of moving the right way, whereas Republicans have shown us exactly where they want to go - to a Dickensian society of Rich and working poor.

[treestar]

42. So calm down

that's what adults (old enough to vote) do. They don't act on emotions.

And inform yourself. You're pissed for no good reason.

[RoseMead]

6. I think the real true intent of Will Pitt's article has been overlooked

"But here's the thing. The left is what it is, warts and all, and the number of times they have been right on the money when it comes to life-and-death matters for this nation - FDR's 100 Days, desegregation and civil rights, the fact that trickle-down economics does not work, the need for serious Wall Street regulation, environmental protection, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so forth - demands the utmost respect...

It strikes me that Mr. Obama and his people are the ones doing all the whining. Instead of lashing out, they should be saying thank you. Thank you for coming out in droves to get us elected in 2008, thank you for reminding us where we have not measured up so we can improve, thank you for caring so much that party affiliation and nose-counting doesn't trump the common good. Sure, there are those who are simply complainers, and those types are very good at making all kinds of noise about all kinds of divisive issues, but the rest of us are devoutly concerned citizens who see this administration coming up short in any number of areas. The Obama administration is not a failure, but it is surely not a success, either. Not yet. Not by a long, long chalk...

Maybe it's time for Mr. Obama and Co. to stop attacking their friends and get down to the work they were elected to do. The world will not end in November, no matter what happens, and this administration still has two more years to do what needs to be done. They know what those things are, but have thus far lacked the courage and conviction to do them.

So we'll keep right on "whining" until it gets done. If they turn around and blame the left for their own failures and electoral setbacks, well, we will all know who the true whiners really are."

The selected and highlighted text seems to suggest that Mr. Pitt is speaking *against* "the whiners," when he's actually agreeing with them.

[prolesunited]

9. ..

[babylonsister]

10. The work they were elected to do? Does this count?

snip//

I at least hoped Americans would realize the scope of recent accomplishments. We are, after all, talking about a two-year span in which Congress passed and the president signed the Affordable Care Act, the Recovery Act, Wall Street reform, student loan reform, Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, new regulation of the credit card industry, new regulation of the tobacco industry, a national service bill, expanded stem-cell research, the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, the most sweeping land-protection act in 15 years, etc. Policymakers might yet add to this list in the lame-duck session.

Some of these efforts have been years in the making. In the case of health care reform, politicians have been talking about a major overhaul for a full century, but it took this Congress and this president to get it done.

This Congress has been about as many accomplishments as recent Congresses? Seriously?

Again, maybe you agree with these accomplishments, or maybe you think they were mistakes. That's not the point here. What's worth acknowledging is that we haven't seen this many accomplishments, on this scale, in decades. Norm Ornstein has characterized this Congress as being the most productive in 45 years. Rachel Maddow recently went further, observing, "The last time any president did this much in office, booze was illegal. If you believe in policy, if you believe in government that addresses problems, cheers to that."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x466826

[bkozumplik]

12. your list of accomplishments is a joke

you say : "maybe you agree with these accomplishments, or maybe you think they were mistakes. That's not the point here."

Actually, it is the point.

[babylonsister]

14. LOL! Bitter, party of one! nt

[bkozumplik]

29. na, its not just me

If it was, we wouldn't be having this conversation, as this diary wouldn't exist.

And, we wouldn't be in any danger of losing seats in congress, we'd be gaining them. Sadly thats not the reality we find ourselves in.

[Jakes Progress]

56. Way to be a uniter.

Do you even give a damn whether Democrats win in November? Just how do you really think your writing is helping Democrats? Are you that into yourself that you can't see the effect of what you are doing?

Now if you don't care, if you just want to vent and rant and whine - that's fine. You have the right. But don't pretend that you are doing anything to help get more votes in November.

[joe black]

66. Typical republican reply.

Attack the person, not answer any questions.

[Autumn]

16. One has to admit, some of those are only

half measures. IMO. I give them kudos for the half measures, because they are better than none.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

53. as well as the fact that one can actually work on them to change them from half to full measures

with time. Its easier to get congress to improve something that exists then something one must build from scratch :)

[RoseMead]

17. I'm not taking issue with the Obama admin's accomplishments

I'm taking issue with the way you misrepresented the intent of the article.

I have a lot of respect for you, babylonsister, and I know you usually post good information. So, frankly, it surprises me to see you twisting the writer's intent this way.

Will Pitt is saying that, yes, he gets frustrated with the infighting on the left, too, but *the whiners are right.* That's what the word he wrote actually say. So, maybe you should email your list of accomplishments to him?:shrug:

[babylonsister]

18. ...it's time for Mr. Obama and Co. to stop attacking their friends and get down to the work they

were elected to do.' That is your quote; you do seem to be taking issue with their accomplishments.

And I posted the OP w/o comment. It's Pitt's words, not mine, but amazingly, many whiners hopped on board.

[muffin1]

22. Whining about "whining".

How inspiring. You post an insult to Progressives, and then chide them for responding. :puke:

[RoseMead]

23. My quote, but Pitt's words

I drew attention to them because they prove what I'm saying, that the intent of the article was misrepresented.

You may have posted without comment, but you did make a point of highlighting part of the text, so it's not like there was no editorializing going on. That, plus your well-known antipathy toward those who criticize Obama, creates the implication that Pitt is agreeing with your position, when he's actually taking the opposite position. A person who just read your selection without checking the actual article would have gotten exactly the *wrong* impression about Pitt's message.

I can't believe you don't see anything wrong with that.

[babylonsister]

31. Sorry, I didn't see the quotes. And I wasn't trying to misrepresent

Mr. Pitt. I am only allowed to post a small segment of the article and thought it worth reading so started at the beginning, which I don't always to.

So my apologies.

I don't think he's taking the opposite position, but thinks we are all at fault. Just my interpretation. And he would probably be right. Never the twain shall meet with Dems; I almost liked it better when we had a common enemy...almost. (Nah, not even close.)

[RoseMead]

34. That's ok.

Like I said, I know you usually post really good information, and I do respect you. Everyone makes mistakes. :hug:

[Exilednight]

21. That list is mostly compromised legislation written by .............

corporate lobbyists. Those are the facts, and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

[PVnRT]

26. You didn't read the entire article, did you?

[jeanpalmer]

36. He should have known

that escalating a war would never fly with his base. Didn't he watch our reaction during the war years of Bush? He miscalculated badly. He's lucky he's not running for reelection this year. Think what Democrats did to LBJ.

[treestar]

43. No one is perfect and everyone gets tired of constant criticism

That's not human nature, besides, you'd also be saying they were weak (or someone would) if the said that. Why do you need them to bow to you? That's what I ask of the whiners. Why can't you take it when they hit back? Why do you demand so much of this situation? it's not a personal relationship - there are a lot of other voters Obama also has to answer to, who feel very differently than you do about things. Why do the whiners feel so entitled? I don't expect the politicians to get me what they want on their own. And a Senator or Representative has even less power to just do what I want. Even they have other constituents.

[rug]

7. "Shut up and vote." That's about the size of it.

[DCBob]

20. No, its more like open your eyes and see what could happen if you sit this election out..

The truth is a vote for Democrats is in your own self interest.. not matter you are a moderate, liberal or a member of the professional left.

[mmonk]

11. From a whiney point of view,

some of us wanted to make sure the changes worked and could positively improve people's lives. We wanted it to begin before the next election cycle so people could feel it and Republicans wouldn't stand a chance. It has nothing to do with the old reliable when complaining about people who may have some legitimate complaints (Nader). So yes, we whine and so the administration is whining back. Whining is that squeeky wheel that gets oiled. Nice work. Recommended.

[Autumn]

13. I have no intention of shuting up

so they all need to quit whining about it.

[Major Hogwash]

15. Wasn't that the name of a comedy program in Great Britain, "The Whiners"?

"That's the Pitts" should be the name of another tv show here in the US patterned from it.

LoL

A comedy starring someone much handsomier than William Rivers could play the lead, where his fictional family constantly argues over politics never agreeing with anything anyone in the household ever says.
The tv family would be complete with a young, but wiseass son; a darling, but wiseass daughter; a loving, but wiseass wife; a caring, but wiseass mother-in-law; a retired, but wiseass father-in-law; the inept, but wiseass brother-in-law; and don't forget, the lovable but gruff, next door snoopy neighbor.

It would be sort of like "Everybody Loves Raymond" but funny because it's always about politics.

[muffin1]

19. Are you guys

TRYING to push people away? If so, kudos, my friends, KUDOS. I had all but decided to hold my nose and vote, but I am really getting sick of this line of attack. Maybe I need to think about this a little more.

[RoseMead]

24. Ignore the anti-whining whiners

and vote. We need you. Don't let the insults get you down. :hug:

[muffin1]

25. Because of people like you I probably will.

I don't know what the hell has happened to this place in the last year. For some reason, we're supposed to LOVE the things we used to hate (war, rendition, torture, discrimination). I don't know...I'm so disheartened. But people like you give me hope and the will to continue to fight. :hug:

[RoseMead]

30. At least I'll have inspired someone. :)

I'm having this same fight over the WV Senate race. Many of my friends are against strip mining, and so am I. And there's no question that Manchin will be a coal industry lapdog. But "further right than the Tea Party" Raese is beyond unacceptable. I've been trying to urge my friends not to sit out the election or vote third party (which some are planning to do.) I've been told that I just must "like" working within a corrupt system. lol Of course I don't like it. But I see the need, and I'm voting for Manchin, warts and all.

We can vote *and* criticize. It doesn't have to be either/or. But not voting isn't an option for me.

Hang in there. It'll get slightly less crazy when the election is over.

[PVnRT]

27. Fuck's sake, did ANY of you read the entire thing?

Judging from the comments, no. Try scrolling all the way through the page next time and reading it.

[muffin1]

28. Yes, I did.

And Pitt's opinion is not so much the issue. It's a certain segment of DU pushing a certain meme for the last month or so that makes me want to puke.

[jonnyblitz]

32. Looks like truth-out has jumped the shark. nt

[dionysus]

49. by not coddling bitter ppl, they have jumped the shark? by not loathing the admin as much as you?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[angee_is_mad]

33. Never thought I would see the day when

Progressives, tell a progressive candidate who won his primary to DROP OUT so that a republican (who REFUSES to say if he will caucus with dems) can win.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

38. Please read the entire article before you formulate an opinion:

Will's intent is not to disparage progressives. As you all know, we cannot post entire articles. Give him the benefit of the doubt til you read it. I am now sorry I didn't snip in the middle, but wanted you to read in its entirety, which it seems hardly anyone did.

Thanks.

[tledford]

39. "The problem is the media vs. the problem is the voting machines vs. the problem is ...

...corporate personhood vs. stop arguing, you're all correct"

Then the logical thing to do would be to elect people who are going to fix these problems, correct?

Who are they? And I'm not asking who *aren't* they, we already know that and agree on at least a subset of those people (Republicans).

Give me three names.

[tledford]

58. [crickets] eom

[Mefistofeles]

40. Latinos just joined the "whiner" crowd

Judging by the logic of Biden and the base-bashers. Polls show low voter enthusiasm among Latinos. Should we sternly scold them yet?

[JNelson6563]

51. Serious swarm action

Boldly unreccing your post anonymously. :toast:

[muffin1]

57. Wow.

I'm sure THAT'S never happened here before.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. Here is your fake health care reform, why are you whining?

Here is your fake bankster regulations, shut the fuck up.

Don't you remember when during the campaign I promised to authorize the execution of americans without due process or any oversight at all? You don't? I guess you should have paid more attention. Now sit down and behave.

We keep getting stiffed by 'our party' and then told to 'behave' because the other half of the duopoly is worse. It's a duopoly. They keep playing Good Cop Bad Cop on the american people while feeding their real constituency, the plutocracy, with the contents of the treasury.

[Imagevision]

61. The big tent you mention is filled with big business and they will always call the shots

they always have and always will the rest is for people like you to keep voicing your entitled opinions.
"By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd." JP Morgan...

[old mark]

63. The administration are the ones doing the complaining - about the left - and doing the assuming -

that we won't vote without chiding.

Mr. Obama, shut up and drive the car...and make a left as soon as possible-like now.

mark:patriot:

[WilliamPitt]

64. self-delete

Never mind.

[Sheepshank]

67. ok how's this supposed to work?

Big, big tent.

1. 72,000,000 Democrats stretching from way big time liberal, to progressive, to centrist, to conserva-dems.
The party has the lengthiest record of continuous operation in the United States. The party contains the most registered voters of any political organization in the world as of 2004, with 72 million voters From Wiki

2. Espousing a Democratic/socialist agenda where we all work toward a common goal...together united in effort and working toward a common goal.

BUT

here at DU it's clear that the reality is there are a never ending list of differing goals.

Each potential voter individually screaming for their own personal agenda to be addressed in the manner the individual feels is appropriate. Fuck the rest of the 72,000,000.

How is one person (Obama) to do this again? Not a good idea to remind them that the individual isn't the end-game here...its the masses?

It's also clear to me that the complaining and whining has served itself well in some respects, but in others, it turns many people off the group effort. There are those thinking that the whining and splintering of the Dems is so pervasive why should anyone attempt at unity and walk to the polls for something that is clearly "unobtainable". And an aside, it's clear that there are those who have decided not to vote because they don't like being called a whiner and seem to be stuck on the call to work for unity rather than splintering and degregrading ethusiasm with their whining.

[VMI Dem]

68. I'd respond, but I'm scared of what might happen.

:rofl:

[ChiciB1]

69. PERSONALLY, What I Think Is This! I'm Going To Vote In November, BUT

NOT because WILL PITT or THE ADMINISTRATION wants me to! I'm infuriated that the Democratic Party AND THIS ADMINISTRATION had the AUDACITY to call me and others like me names and referred to us as something less than "good citizens!"

I've worked very, very hard for many, many years for a Democratic Party that I always supported. I worked very hard for Obama, even though he was NEVER my first or second choice, but I did what The Party asked of me.

HOWEVER, because of what has transpired these past two years, and given the fact that so many Blue Dog Democrats have stabbed me in the back, I no longer feel THEY really want to include me in a Party that once had a BIG TENT! Their comments and what they have said is not what will make me vote because THIS Democratic Party doesn't really need or perhaps doesn't even want my loyalty anymore!

BUT I WILL VOTE! WHY? Because Marco RUBIO must be stopped and I MUST vote for the person I think "might" be able to stop him. I will vote for Sink too, even though I feel she's to the right of me, but it's not so much FOR her but AGAINST Scott!

What I would like to see, and don't think I will ever see, is a VIABLE, STRONG THIRD Party that doesn't denigrate and dismiss me and one that doesn't stoop to calling it's fellow Democrat names!

In the end, I may have to live under the iron rule of yet ANOTHER whack job Repuke, but I can't move from Florida so my chances are slim to nothing!

JMHO!