Harry Reid Quietly, Confidently Destroyed Sharon Angle in the Nevada Debate.

[David Zephyr]

After reading many of the comments here at the DU, I was able to finally see the debate myself.

While remaining a gentleman throughout the debate, Senator Reid scored point after point with every key, voting demographic group in Nevada from the middle class, women, working men and women, parents, teachers, environmentalists, GLBT Americans, senior citizens, veterans, minorities including Latinos, and even old white guys like himself.

For all her annoying twisting and turning and frozen smiling, she still lost the debate on specifics, on atmospherics, and especially on personality.

Tomorrow as voters in Nevada reflect on this debate, there will be a comforting resolve favoring Senator Harry Reid.

Sharon Angle made a big mistake by mocking Senator Reid telling him to "man up."

Sharon Angle should watch the debate again. She clearly missed something: Harry Reid did "man up". He just did so as a gentleman.

Congratulations to Senator Reid. I didn't think you had it in you. You clearly did. And you just clinched re-election.

[pnwmom]

1. I've been afraid to watch the debate, based on the media accounts.

I'm glad you thought it went well.

[David Zephyr]

2. I can go to sleep tonight knowing another Senate seat is safe. Harry pulled it off.

Good to see you, pnwmom. :)

Harry put the election away tonight.

[karynnj]

15. I was stunned at the media summaries - especially Chuck Todd's

I know he has been rather obnoxious in his non-analytical comments all year, but his comments did not match the excerpts. Reid has never been a great orator or debater, but he did come across as who he is - he is serious, knowledgeable, and interested in helping his state - who conveys almost a humbleness in the way he speaks. Angle, on the other hand, has the lack of understanding, but not the smoothness of O'Donnell.

I wonder if it is these "pundits" who are the true elitists - knowing that Reid won on the merits, but assuming that the voters will be swayed by Angle's theatrics. They ignore that she was obnoxious. Can you imagine what would have been said had ANY Democratic candidate acted as rudely to an incumbent opponent? If there are genuinely undecided NV voters who watched this, I can't imagine it would lead them to vote for her.

[Cosmocat]

16. Yeah ... they are "elites" who demean the boogeyman elites ...

but the bottom line is they get indoctrinated, understand that their jobs rely on and grow to relish being right wing water carriers who know that at the very least they have to marginalize democrats at every turn ...

They are not "journalists" or "objective." They have orders and follow them happily ...

[flamingdem]

23. Todd was terrible nt

[wisteria]

30. My take on Todd is he is trying to create a story on election day that he drove from the beginning.

When he suggested she was passable and that was all she needed to clinch the election,I was stunned.

[bobburgster]

73. Chuck Todd has gone down hill in my opinion. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

103. He was never really anywhere near the top of the hill.

[butterfly77]

105. LOL!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bobburgster]

119. Well, can't really argue on that.

:)

[LiberalFighter]

102. Yes the pundits are elitists. Consider that they are paid way more than their worth.

They are not qualified, knowledgeable about the facts or understanding of how events play out.

[quakerboy]

115. The problem is that

there always seem to be as many people who watch the pundits rather than the debate itself.

[whathehell]

20. I understand your anxiety, as I watched the debate and then watched the M$M spin

this in Angle's direction.

Chuck Todd, for instance, began criticizing Harry Reid IMMEDIATELY for "missing opportunities" to challenge Angle. His follow-up remarks were remarkably free of criticism of Angle's performance.

Angle, in both style and substance did far worse than Reid. She looked highly uncomfortable, with even her smiles coming off as "grimaces".

I've rarely seen a politician look so "tortured" in a debate.

M$M = Bought and Paid for.

[Clear Blue Sky]

27. Glad he was able to put her away and settle the election.

[tavalon]

3. I would be a hypocrite to pretend that I adore Henry Reid

nor to say I think he's a great Majority leader but he's miles and miles better than Sharon Angle.

[pnwmom]

4. And that's the bottom line. nt

[Chipper Chat]

5. Yeah, that "man up" comment disgusted me too.

I actually said "you bitch" out loud.
And what was with that peuk-green backdrop? Shades of Swamp Rat!

[pnwmom]

78. I hope lots of men were offended by that comment.

I thought it was really disturbing, but women are more likely to vote for Reid (or any Dem) anyway.

[JI7]

6. i hope you are right but the fact that someone like Sharon Angle has a chance of winning at all

is scary.

[BolivarianHero]

112. It's a bad election cycle...

NY:

In 2008, Gillibrand would be ahead by the same margin that Cuomo is beating Paladino today, Cuomo be polling 70 - 80% against an opponent as bad as Paladino, and Schumer wouldn't even have a fucking opponent.

DE:

O'Donnell would be behind 25 - 30 points, as would Urqhart.

CA:

Brown and Boxer would be facing coronations rather than elections.

FL:

Rubio and that insurance fraud fuck wouldn't have stood a chance in Hell.

And so on...

[DCBob]

7. except the media seems obsessesed only with the "man up" comment..

which makes Angle look tough and aggresive and Reid weak and pathetic. Take a look at ABC front page..

http://abcnews.go.com/

I am sure most people in NV did not see the debate so this quote will be about all they take away from the event. That does not help Harry... imo.

[lillypaddle]

10. Yeah, I saw HuffPost's headline on this

it was something like "Sharon Angle attacks, Harry Reid plays defense." I didn't even read the article. I have GOT to quit going over there. Glad to hear he did well.

[creon]

36. huffpo

that place is poor.

Barbara Ehrenreich is 100 times better than Huffington.

[Bette Noir]

44. As a middle-aged Californian, I vividly remember when Ariana's husband

(she was still married at the time) ran for office as a conservative Republican, and lost the election because of Ariana's maid. It was many years ago, so I don't remember whether the issue was that the maid was an undocumented immigrant, or that the Huffingtons didn't pay the employment taxes on her, but it was a very, very typical Republican scandal.

I don't buy Ariana as a spokesperson for the Left.

[kenfrequed]

46. People change

Ariana has stood up for the issues quite frequently and I never fault anyone for learning lessons while they can still stand up for the right causes. Much better than the stupid deathbed-brain cancer conversions that most conservatives have. Or the new ones where they only tell the truth when they are well and truly out of office.


Reid has frequently been spineless in congress and I don't expect that to change when he is reelected. And yes, I did say 'when.'

[creon]

61. I understand that

HuffPo has too many RW comedians talking rubbish. And, too cranky for my taste.
I, too, have doubts about her as a progressive spokesman.

[bardgal]

75. HuffPo has gotten so weird...

and has been completely infiltrated by right-wing paid posters, many of whom pose as Dems who have all jumped on the Hate Obama Bus.

It used to be a great site, but now it's full of crazies.

[bluesmail]

81. Me neither! Wasn't her ex before he was an ex running for governor and lost.

Wasn't he gay? That's the way I remember it. I'll never trust Ariana Huffington 100%.

[dsc]

82. Oh it was a doozy

Huffington authored exactly one law, count it one law, in his time in Congress. That law made it a federal crime to cross state lines with an illegal employee. You guessed it, he managed to break the sole law he wrote while in Congress, and then blamed it on his wife and kid.

[karynnj]

17. I wonder how that quote really plays

I found it genuinely offensive and nasty - just as I found a similar comment from O'Donnell against Castle. (It does worry me that she won after that behavior.) It may be generational, but it was a complete turn off, off topic and rude. Consider how quickly a Democrat would be asked to apologize for saying (or an aide saying)something like that.

Could the reaction differ by generation (I am 60) or by gender?

[savalez]

37. I agree with you karynnj.

[David Zephyr]

89. You have this right.

Because of Harry's age, it was truly over the top. It will backfire. I like how you think, karynnj:)

[David Zephyr]

28. You are correct. The media wants a dogfight. Reid was wise, informed and a gentleman.

You have it right the media was looking for something with sizzle and Reid didn't come to the debate with an apron, a frying pan and bacon.

He was himself. I saw some of the early banter in the media after the debate, so I went to look at it myself.

I was expecting Reid to look foolish and weak. Nothing like that at all happened.

What surprised me the most was Reid's command of knowledge on every single issue. And when she would make her wild, ugly accusations, he didn't take the bite and respond in anger, but he did respond with facts, with reason and best of all in a neighborly way.

Don't lose hope here. What the media wants and what voters are looking for are not the same thing.

:)

[Qutzupalotl]

45. It's sexist

or reverse sexist, if you will.

I know it's not in Harry's nature, but when I heard that comment I half wish he had come back with, "'Man up?!' What are you, twelve?"

[Roy Rolling]

52. stereotypes are good business

Yeah, it's fashionable to insult a male and question his gender qualties, but tell a woman to "stop being so masculine" and see what happens. What the hell does "man up" mean anyway? Act like a stereotype? Isn't "man up" what got W. into trouble? His "mission accomplished" carrier landing was a classic case "man up" but when he was in the National Guard during the Vietnam War he was the only American airman missing-in-action in his own home country.

[molly77]

77. If MSM likes a candidate

We know the candidate would vote for the corporations and against the people. If a democrat is a regular on the sunday morning talk shows...they are compromised.

Maybe I am hard line.How often do you see a progressive on the sunday shows who is allowed to speak? Thought so.

[Rhiannon12866]

8. I only saw clips of it, but she sounded very odd to me

She seemed to have trouble speaking, sounded like she'd had a stroke or some other kind of brain impairment, not to mention that she didn't even answer most of the questions. But I doubt she knew what to say. If I was in Nevada, that would have done it for me, if I didn't already think she was nuts. I don't see how anyone can take her seriously, her views are so outrageous, but then I'm in NY, and we have Carl Paladino... :eyes:

[leftynyc]

9. It's going to be nice voting against Paladino

He really doesn't stand a chance at this point here but Reid is in real trouble. I didn't see the debate and frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of the pukes trying to emasculate Democratic men - they're playing to their neanderthal base.

[MadMaddie]

21. It's a catch 22 isn't it?

If the Democratic men become loud and go on the offensive then the media tags them as the rabid left. If Democratic men are respectful they are seen as weak.....

Such bullshit...

[David Zephyr]

29. Angle was very disrespectful to not only Harry Reid, but to voters. Sarcasm is OK to a point.

It is indeed a bit of a Catch 22.

Still, she was sarcastic almost the entire debate. Sarcasm is good here and there, but it seems to be the only tune she can play. Her "personality" will leave a bad aftertaste with the voters who watched the debate.

You are correct that there is a pigeonhole that Democratic male candidates can fall into, making them go hunting with television crews just weeks before an election.

As I wrote, I Harry "manned up" in the way he was raised and conducts his life: with dignity, with respect to those listening to him and as a gentleman.

As to Chuck Todd, I think he's jealous that he did not get his own show at MSNBC and is possibly signaling to Fox he's open to a move. There's a real current of NBC wanting to distance itself from MSNBC now, as you know. Todd is a corporate climber just as Tom Brokaw was. Apple shiners.

[Rhiannon12866]

57. From what I saw, Sharron Angle was an embarrassment.

She has nothing, didn't even pretend to address the questions, as the moderator repeatedly pointed out. And her attitude is offensive, mean spirited and sarcastic, as you pointed out, while she has nothing to offer but craziness and hate-speak. It's been pointed out to me that the more out-there that these RW candidates are, the better it is for us, since there's no way that anyone can take them seriously. But I think it's scary that they're actually on any ballot... :scared:

As for Chuck Todd, I was totally amazed that Lawrence O'Donnell didn't seem to react to either his words or his attitude. He usually speaks out and I've liked him for that. I keep waiting for someone on MSNBC to challenge what he says, but it hasn't happened yet... :(

[David Zephyr]

88. I agree.

:)

[PSzymeczek]

109. Perhaps

allowing Chuckie enough rope to hang his career?

[Rhiannon12866]

124. Perhaps.

But you know that there's always a market for guys like him, even if it's not on MSNBC... :(

[Rhiannon12866]

56. If there's a more offensive candidate than Paladino out there, I haven't seen him yet.

And I'm paying attention. It's totally beyond me how the likes of him, Angle, O'Donnell, etc. are even taken seriously as candidates in this age of TV and the internets. If you plan to vote, even if you're not paying attention, you can't possibly miss all the craziness that shows up as headline news every night on TV. As a lifelong New Yorker, I'm embarrassed that Paladino is actually running for office here, and I feel for the residents of Nevada. Harry Reid isn't perfect, no candidate is, but Sharron Angle has nothing. x(

[leftynyc]

65. Paladino has become a joke

I know of nobody who will own up and admit they're voting for him. Granted, this is downstate but still - he's an embarassment to the party.

Edited to add: And I have a racist anti-semite to vote against in NY-18. Craziness all around this election.

[Rhiannon12866]

66. Well, somebody took him seriously enough for him to win the primary.

I'm no fan of Rick Lazio, but at least he's not murderous, last I checked. And I read a very disturbing article in yesterday's local paper. My Republican assemblywoman, who's running unopposed, has been taking heat because she won't commit to voting for Paladino. Yes, she's a Republican, but she's from rural Essex County and is a big supporter of animal protection legislation (has communicated with me personally on the subject) and also of gay rights. She has a gay son and has won awards from LGBT groups for her efforts on this issue, amazing for a Republican. But she's being pressured for not supporting Paladino! Insane... :crazy:

[leftynyc]

67. He's very popular in Western NY

and I expect him to pull around 38-40% of the vote in NY. Many will be anti-Cuomo votes. But absolutley no way he doesn't lose this election.

[Rhiannon12866]

74. Yikes! It's hard to believe that anyone can overlook all of his negatives

(And I have seen no positives.) Rachel said it best, that his only platform is "I'm pissed!" But I have seen interviews with his supporters and they've got to be nearly as insane as he is. One guy, when asked about Paladino's racist pornographic e-mails, said that people should take a look at their own e-mails! WTF?! I'm in NE NY, Warren County, and even though this is a heavily Republican area, I've seen no support for Paladino here. He's considered a joke, who, unfortunately, has the Republican nomination... x(

[leftynyc]

120. I think when push comes to shove

people will vote party over principle. I know he's very popular in the Buffalo area so that's what I consider his base and then he's got the teabaggers and the perpetually angry vote. He'll lose but he'll get in the area of 40% of the vote. I'm in Westchester county and I've seen exactly one ad for Spitzer - I'm glad he's not wasting his money. Then, of course, I have my Rep, Nita Lowey, being challenged by a racist anti-semite. Good times in New York.

[Rhiannon12866]

122. Paladino has become a national joke.

Angle and O'Donnell aren't too bright, but he's so out there it's scary. I couldn't even believe it when he won the primary. I don't think he stands a chance, either, but that anyone would vote for him does not bode well... And the polls say that my rep is comfortably ahead, but the attack ads against him are getting worse and John Boehner came to the district (NY-20) to support his Republican challenger... x(

[PSzymeczek]

110. I suspect Paladino is doing well

in St. Lawrence County.

[leftynyc]

121. Party over principle

It infects both sides of the aisle but it is, unfortunatly, the way American politics is at the moment. Two parties only.

[Rhiannon12866]

125. In my district, even the Republicans are distancing themselves from him.

And his gaffes are reported in detail on the local (Albany) news. It's embarrassing, but only a good thing that he's gotten national attention, since none of it is good. I think it was Letterman who said last night that even the rescued Chilean miners look healthier than Paladino does... ;)

[Control-Z]

72. That man up comment

sounded to me like something she decided to say ahead of time. She seemed relieved after she got to shout it out but then had to go on and try to make it fit. Awkward.

[Rhiannon12866]

76. Everything she said was like that.

It was as if she had her talking points memorized and just blurted them out, no matter what the question was, relevant or not. And that would certainly explain her hesitation and the awkwardness. How anyone can still support her after that abysmal performance is totally beyond me... :banghead:

[glowing]

11. the only thing I could see is her mouth and the more harsh she got, the worse her teeth looked.

the only thing I noticed was an ugly mouth. brown teeth, nasty attitude... the woman needs some orbits gum lol

[zbdent]

12. but even a "lefty" station pushes the meme ... AM 1090 KPTK runs with the

GOP/TP push "Angle" did get a good hit ... "Angle scored with the zinger ..."

[Enthusiast]

14. The media also

said that Bush won one of the debates with Gore. They reported that Bush won even though he came off as the uneducated fool he is.

[emulatorloo]

24. They also tried to claim Bush won the debates with Kerry

when Kerry mopped the floor with him, especially debate one.

Always spin for the Republicans.

[wisteria]

31. Yep, they never have good things to say about Democrats.

They actually go out of their way to put down Democrats. I think they do this to some extent to dispel the idea that the media leans to the left.

[saltpoint]

13. In the media, Angle comes across as angry and

opportunistic, as opposed to thoughtful.

I don't have a sense of her as someone with much sense.

[BootinUp]

18. Her closing statement was all about faith

faith in God, faith in America, etc. In tough times it is not an ineffective play. Of course it would probably work better if she wasn't backing extreme policy positions.

I am optimistic that she will be defeated, but it sure seems closer than it should be and I am not sure enough people are seeing her opportunistic side out there in Nevada. Lack of good information most likely.

[saltpoint]

19. I like your take on it, and I hope enough people

in Nevada agree with you that her positions are extreme and off-the-wall.

Agree with you that I wish it weren't as close as it is.

[Mass]

22. I wished I could agree. But even with pink glasses, this is not what I saw.

[AlinPA]

33. I agree with you Mass. Reid looked and sounded weak.

[savalez]

38. That depends who's looking and hearing. Some people still respect civility.

[Rozlee]

54. I have to agree with you on this one.

Someone coached her good on the debate tactic of bait and switch: don't answer the questions that make you look bad; change the subject; attack your opponent instead; and let the clock run out. She was schooled well on right wing talking point lies, distortions and twisting of facts in a venue where they are not allowed to be challenged adequately. I'm sure she scored a great many points with those lies and distortions. There was no way Reid could address so many of them coming at him from her as she kept on repeating one Big Lie after another. But, I hope that the audience was as repelled by her as I was. To me, she came across as a shrill harpy that just bared her teeth every chance she got. I must have had a nightmare of being chased by her teeth in the woods during the night or something; I've been rattled all day.

[COLGATE4]

100. I agree with Mass. Harry sounded weak, subservient and

unsure.

[kentuck]

25. The problem I see...

..is that more people will see the synopsis by the media than actually watched the debate on C-SPAN? It's the propaganda machine that has the power, not the truth.

[wiggs]

47. Excellent and tragic point. nt

[DeschutesRiver]

dup. nt

...

[DeschutesRiver]

26. When I heard Angle make the "man up" comment

I was wondering what the reaction would have been from the MSM if Harry Reid had said something along the same vein, like telling her to "put on her big girl panties."

Outrage, I'm sure, that would last many news cycles. Instead, I'm hearing zip about the "man up" crap.

[savalez]

39. yup. there's no winning response to that. It's called a cheap shot.

[LynneSin]

32. Harry Reid is in the same position as Joe Biden and Chris Coons were

They are debating whackadoos. And what's worse, they are women who would have no problem using the 'bully' word if people like Biden (with Palin), Coons (with O'Donnell) and Reid (with Angle) would actually debate them full strength. Ironically the women we run for public office are strong confident women who can go full power against anyone - people like Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer etc. etc.

I felt so bad for Chris Coons and the level of frustration he had in that debate. O'Donnell just spewed the craziest stuff that first, made no sense, and second were flat out lies, and even Coons said he just didn't have the time to cover every piece of misinformation that woman was dumping out in the debate. O'Donnell's latest lie - that beginning 2011 every citizen will be paying $10k more in taxes thanks to Obama's tax increases (which isn't really his tax increases but allowing hte Bush tax cuts to expire). Coons just looked at her like his head was ready to explode with all the stupid nonsense she was spewing.

[David Zephyr]

85. Spot on.

.

[pansypoo53219]

34. BUTBUTBUT

nevada gnews says angel didn't look crazee, so she should win.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. I watched parts of it

And I never realized how soft spoken and courtly Harry Reid was. You could see him struggling to remain calm, cool, and collected and a gentleman in the presence of a shrill, frozen, plastic, harpie. His mother raised him right.

Angle? She needs 'polishing'. She's just not 'polished' but I suppose there's a certain type of voter out there that as you are a woman who smiles and who verbally tries to castrate Democratic men AND say God Bless America every other sentence - you can win an election.

[savalez]

41. First point, well said and I agree. Second point, well said and unfortunatley I agree.

[PSzymeczek]

111. It's impossible

to really polish a turd.

[Bette Noir]

40. I haven't watched the debate, but I'm disturbed by the use of the "Man up" phrase.

That tactic, women bullying men by attacking their masculinity, was also used by Christine O'Donnell in the Delaware primary. For her, it worked. I don't like it, any more than I liked the proto-teabaggers who carried signs to Hillary Clinton's events saying, "Iron my shirt." The sauce for the goose rule applies: We who object to sex-based attacks on women should respond just as vigorously to sex-based attacks on men.

[David Zephyr]

48. Bette Noir, because Harry is visibly a senior citizen, her comment looked vicious.

Angle's mocking Reid to "man up" when he looked liked a kind great grandfather sounded ugly and looked ugly because it was ugly. It was crude and yet, he responded as a gentleman.

[SemperEadem]

51. let's hope that it made enough of an impression on Nevada voters to result in his winning.

[mzmolly]

64. Yes

he did DavidZ. He was all class. She was anything but. :hi:

[David Zephyr]

86. He was classy.

His mentioning how his parents struggled with his mom "taking in wash from the brothels" to make ends meet in his quiet tone. That doesn't stick out like "Man up!" does immediately. Ah, but it lingers, it marinates and it holds in the heart.

He "was all class" as you say. :hi:

[mzmolly]

63. Exactly! And instead of the media noting her obvious

lack of knowledge, she hopes they focus on her sexist comment. I can see the bumper stickers now. How about "grow up," Sharon Angle?

[h9socialist]

42. I hope you're right

It's not that I'm that fond of Harry Reid . . . but Sharron Angle makes Lucrezia Borgia look like a humanitarian.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. n/t

:rofl: The Countess of Bathory too! :rofl:

[Raoul]

49. Hate to burst your bubble but

debates don't mean squat to most of the ignorant voters. Case in point - Kerry cleaned the war criminal's clock in ALL 3 debates. What was the result?

[David Zephyr]

83. Debates matter. They are a component in the voter's mind. Kerry won in 2004.

Ohio was stolen from John Kerry.

[PSzymeczek]

113. That is the truth.

I grew up in Concord Southwest precinct, in Miami County (one of the infamous 12 western counties). Never in my memory, the '50s and '60s, did they ever approach 98+% voter turnout.

[old mark]

50. TV news is saying Angle did a great job ,even though her side of the debate

seemed to be name calling and buzzwords. It seems taht the media has forgtoten that "debate" actually has a meaning, it's not just people talking at each other for sound bites...

I have contributed to Reid's campaign several times
even though I live in PA - I have no doubt there are enough intelligent voters in Nevada to re-elect him.

mark

[ProfessionalLeftist]

53. According to Enn Pee R this morning...

...he did terrible. But then they trashed whatshername too.

[Metta]

55. He's still a wimp and a huge part of the problem.

imo.

[mzmolly]

62. What is a wimp? Thoughtful? Quiet?

Knowledgeable?

I don't want more hubris. We had enough of that faux manly, man sh*t with W.

[Nothing Without Hope]

58. So many people believe the tilted, regurgitated TV "news commentaries"

rather than seeing for themselves. I hope the foolish, credulous laziness of these dupes doesn't turn the election.

[jgraz]

59. Good to know, but did you really need to include the "quietly" adjective?

This is Harry Reid, after all. :P

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. .

I'm sorry you had to see me this way. I am so angry right now.

[jgraz]

93. Whatever it was, I missed it.

:shrug:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

94. I failed. I was trying to use the tiny HTML text to sound like Harry Reid whispering but

my clumsy ass couldn't get it to work.

[jgraz]

95. .

you mean like this?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

96. Yeah how the hell do you do that?

:P

[jgraz]

99. Like this

[font size=1 color=lightgray]you mean like this?[/font]

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

101. Cool thanks. Without that I had no joke. nt

[mzmolly]

60. Angle's "man up" comment was sexist.

I hope the local media calls her on her whiny, sexist tone.

Even Faux News viewers agree with you, on who won the debate. ;) I hope you're right about his re-election.

http://worldnewsvine.com/2010/10/polls-in-nevada-show-senator-harry-reid-won-senatorial-debate-hands-down-over-angle/

Edited for grammar. :blush:

[Mad_Dem_X]

69. What is it with these Repub women saying, "Man up"?

Christine O'Dipshit said the same thing to Mike Castle, also telling him to "put (his) man pants on".

[BootinUp]

70. Well it reminds me of Ahnold and his derogatory

remark about Kerry in '04.

[mzmolly]

71. PS anyone notice her hypocrisy when she complained that her Dad didn't get enough of a "hand out"

from the Government?

[totodeinhere]

79. Others disagree with your take on the debate.

The Las Vegas Sun - "Reid lost." http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/15/reid-lost-debate-angle/

The Las Vegas Review-Journal - "Angle mops the floor with Reid." http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/sherm/Angle_mops_the_floor_with_Reid_.html

So I don't know how you can say that Reid "just clinched re-election" based upon your opinion of the debate when so many other observers disagree with you about who won.

[David Zephyr]

84. I wrote the OP after I'd seen the media's "instant analysis" and the meme.

First, thank you for the links, totodeinhere.

It was clear to me late last night (around midnight) that the media's narrative (as your links reveal) would be the meme in the papers in the morning when I would awaken. I'd already seen Chuck Todd's one-dimensional criteria for what he thinks wins a debate. His criteria is simply different from mine.

Here's what I was saying. It's what lingers after the debate because what holds in a voter's mind doesn't always settle immediately.

So, I penned the OP last night, knowing full well that the tide would be against me. But my overarching point was in this statement that I wrote late last night:

"Tomorrow as voters in Nevada reflect on this debate, there will be a comforting resolve favoring Senator Harry Reid." And I stand by that this afternoon. I'm right and they are wrong.

It's the aftermath, the recollection of what viewers saw.

What did they see:

One was a manic woman, caught up in her own lies, making sarcasm her hour long drudge, rather than using it as an an occasional communication touch. And the other? He was a gentleman, who was not the doddering old fool that many thought he would be, with a commanding knowledge of government and a deep love for the State of Nevada.

It's the reflection, the afterthought that remains: Reid mentioned mamograms, kids with autism, veteran's hospitals, and he wove into his hour long fabric nearly every walk of life in Nevada --including making the touching point that his mom had even "taken in wash from the brothels" to help make ends meet.

Harry Reid will be re-elected. He was Nevada last night. Check back with me after the election. :)

[totodeinhere]

90. I am in Nevada myself and from where I sit things look grim for Reid.

What is important about the debate is the sound bites that came out of the debate, not the debate itself. I doubt if very many Nevadans even watched the entire debate, yet most saw Angle's "man up" sound bite on the local news. In fact where I live here in Elko I couldn't even get the debate on TV and had to resort to listening to it on a low powered translator from Reno's NPR station.

Reid is very unpopular outside of Clark County and I doubt if he will carry any other county. Angle is from the Reno area and should do well there and she will clean up in very conservative rural areas such as where I am. And Reid cannot count on the Hispanic vote too much either, probably because his son Rory is running against popular Hispanic Republican Brian Sandoval in the governor's race. (And Sandoval is up 25 points in that race BTW.)

Reid keeps running cheesy radio ads in this area that talk about how his father gave him his first gun when he was a boy and about how he will protect our Second Amendment rights. But most people I know, and I realize that this is just anecdotal, laugh at those ads and consider it pandering.

Only because Angle is bat shit crazy is this race even close. But I'm afraid that a lot of Nevadans loath Reid so much that they will knowing vote for a crazy person over him. At best I give Reid about a 40% chance of pulling it off.

[David Zephyr]

92. I hear you, totodeinhere

But take heart in this: Americans are disappointed with the Democrats, and some are angry, but while some might like seeing the "crazies" and talking "crazy", when they are alone voting, they won't vote as crazy as many think. Just look: the polls are trending our way.

Remember (and I know you know this better than me) Senator Reid was written off just one month ago and Sharon Angle was ahead in the polls. That's no longer the case.

I wrote a few weeks back about the "New Silent Majority" in America. They are going to show up at the polls, in a mid-term, and the touted "massacre" that the GOP and the media have been predicting is not going to happen. We will lose some congressional seats, I know that. The House is going to be close.

But when Nevada, your state has the Senate Majority Leader in D.C., well, that's "juice" as Angle liked to say. That's real juice. Nevada's woes spring from 8 years of Bush. We are not doing much better here in California. It's like an post-apocalyptic film, but I believe in my heart that Americans know that the Democrats did not cause the problems and are afraid to turn the country back over to the GOP again.

So, totodeinhere, I'm pulling for your Senator Harry Reid from here in California. I've given hell to Harry for years here at the DU, but now I'm wanting to see some Give 'em hell, Harry from Harry. I think he will do it.

I liked the man I saw in that debate. He's a good man.

[Ter]

97. I have to agree with the previous poster

I watched it thinking I was gonna see a Christine O'Donnell close. Instead what I saw was someone who spoke far more intelligently than her. I will never agree with her views, but I think she carried herself well. Reid? Well, he admires Antonin Scalia, and dodged the question of what current or former SC justice he would oppose.

[veganlush]

80. I hope to

congratulate you come Nov. 3 on your prognostication.

[Mimosa]

87. Requesting a link to the debate

I really want to watch this one.

Sharon Angle is almost certifiably crazy.

[AlbertCat]

91. Sharon Angle is almost certifiably crazy.

She reminds me of one of those horrible female characters in a Dickens novel.... y'know, the one that beats the kids and makes them sleep in a cupboard.... or runs the orphanage/workhouse.

She's all "you're on your own.... do as you are told by your betters" when it comes to helping people with anything.... anything at all! According to her, charity is for chumps, and citizens have no rights to any help from the government.

[ClarkUSA]

98. My brother and sister-in-law live in LV & are OFA organizers. They had the same impression you did.

They have lived in NV for over a decade, so they know the state pretty well. They feel cautiously optimistic.

[laughingliberal]

104. K & R nt

[Omaha Steve]

106. I've received several requests from many politicians asking to help Senator Reid in the last week

I did: https://secure.harryreid.com/page/contribute/em20101015

K&R!

[David Zephyr]

108. Thank you for helping the Senator.

And thanks for the link.

[INdemo]

107. It was just sickening as I was channel surfing today and every damn

corporate cable station was playing the clip when Angle delivered that one liner about Reid's wealth..I think Chuck Todd was getting his rocks off playing that clip..and then I dont know who the gal is that is on MSNBC but she was just as thrilled about that clip..If Republicans can nominate some wacko like that then they are certainly scraping the barrel..I didn't here what Buchanan had to say but no doubt he was thrilled............Yes Harry Reid won.....
Even our local station was playing that clip and we are no wheres near AZ What we are hearing about the polls is propaganda ..I mean no doubt there are a lot of pissed off Democrats but we are still Democrats..And we will surprise the hell out of the whole nation and show up and vote and keep these Waco's where they belong.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

114. Angle is a lightwieght full of fluff and no substance - rookie

[zulchzulu]

116. Angle had to have been coached by the same people who coached O'Donnell

Like O'Donnell, Angle used the "man up" statement like O'Donnell did with Mike Castle. Angle also used the "rich boy" statement that O'Donnell used against Coons in their recent debate.

Like O'Donnell, Angle was a classless wench who plays a Reborn Superstitionalist with a nasty Palin streak based on anti-intellectual half-baked screeds.

Losers.

[tortoise1956]

117. I disagree...

If you want to read a Nevada perspective on the debate, the most appropriate comments I have seen came from Jon Ralston, a local columnist:

Let’s get the easy part out of the way first:

Sharron Angle won The Big Debate.

Angle won because she looked relatively credible, appearing not to be the Wicked Witch of the West (Christine O’Donnell is the good witch of the Tea Party) and scoring many more rhetorical points. And she won because Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid looked as if he could barely stay on a linear argument, abruptly switching gears and failing to effectively parry or thrust.

Whether the debate affects the outcome — I believe very few Nevadans are undecided — it also perfectly encapsulated the race: An aging senator who has mastered the inside political game but fundamentally does not seem to care about his public role (and is terrible at it) versus an ever-smiling political climber who can deliver message points but sometimes changes her message or denies a previous one even existed.

Look upon these works, ye mighty, and despair.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/15/reid-lost-debate-angle/

And this comes from someone who is by no means a conservative!

As a Nevadan for the last quarter-century, I can tell you that Harry Reid is disliked by almost every major group. Rural Nevada has had billboards that say," Anyone Butt Reid" since before the primary, the Mormons won't support him, and even democrats in Clark County are disgusted with his verbal gaffes and inability to help the state. And don't even mention his name in the military community, all they do is turn their heads and spit. If Sue Lowden had won the Republican primary instead of Angle, they might have called the main election off and buried his career in a shallow grave in the desert right then.

I didn't think it was possible, but now I believe that Angle will win the election 52-47.

[wisteria]

127. Well, I hope you are wrong. I watched the debate and I don't think she came across as passable.

But, I an not from Nev. Again, I hope you are wrong-she is not ready for any leadership role in government and even she doesn't state she intends to help the people of Nev.Her whole debate was on supporting free markets as a way to solve all our ills.
Oh, and where did you pull your numbers from, the polling doesn't indicate what you suggest. You sure you aren't and Angle supporter try to discourage Dem's from voting?

[Brandlon]

118. There are many "experts" who claim

that it was a huge mistake for Reid to have had a debate with her. The "experts" have pointed out that Reid has going out of his way to paint her as an extremist at every opportunity. Now putting aside the fact that she is, that is not how she came across in that debate.

For the most part she came across as your average politician. It is like Reid took the one tactic that he had on his side and fully exposed Angle as normal.

To the political junkies who know better are not going to get fooled by this, but Reid exposed Angle to those who only lightly follow politics as a 'normal' politician.

It was my understanding that she wasn't really interested in having any debates, because she didn't want to expose some of her radical comments she has made in the past. If that is true, then Reid had the perfect opportunity to not engage in a debate forum and could have kept hitting her as a right-wing extremist using other media.

My observation of the debate is that neither one of them looked very good. However, I expected Reid to be shoulders above Angle in looking and sounding more professional as he has way more time in front of the camera. I think he came away wishy-washy. She did to.

I don't think this was his finest moment and I think this may hurt him somewhat. I believe that expectations for her were lowered because of the lesser national media spotlight.

*experts = political junkies, political pundits, political reporters

[Awsi Dooger]

123. I thought it was a huge mistake for Reid to debate her

Nevadans readily believe politicians are crazy. They've had a nut case for governor for 4 years in Jim Gibbons. Sue Lowden wanted to make chickens an issue.

Now the state has evidence that Angle is not crazy. She is, but she was able to camouflage it for an hour, and that's all that matters.

I thought Reid should have hammered her relentlessly in commercials, including the recent insane Sharia Law remarks, and not debated unless Jon Ralston was the moderator. He would have made Angle the issue and perked up Reid.

My friends in Nevada think Angle "won" the debate and Reid is probably gone. I'm worried he already trailed prior to the debate. Mason-Dixon is easily the polling firm I respect most in Nevada elections. They've polled Nevada every cycle and their poll tabs make sense, adjusting from midterm to general election. They had Angle ahead 47-45 prior to the debate.

Clark County has declined significantly in registered voters since 2008. The cow counties aren't losing numbers and they show up in midterms. Nevada is always several points more conservative in midterms. It was 21% liberals, 36% conservatives in 2006, then 22% liberals, 34% conservatives in 2008. This year I'd project something like 20% liberals, 38% conservatives, and perhaps worse. It could hit 40% conservatives. A shifted electorate is what works against us. Those numbers aren't noise.

[wisteria]

126. I don't think she came accross as an average politician. She seemed

a bit to excited or even drunk.

[hack89]

128. Let's see what the voters think. nt