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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:50 PM
Original message
He Went There! Obama Attacks the 1%
Via Daily Kos:

He Went There! Obama Attacks the 1%

Thank God. Finally. Having come to office with a promise of healing divisions, and being faced with an obstructionist opposition veering increasingly to the zero tax anarchy of the Libertarian Right, your President finally came clean. No he isn't a corporate tool. (Hell, if he was, wouldn't he have taken those Wall St job offers rather than a meagre community organisers job?). Yes,he went there, and picked on that 1% which Joseph Steiglitz has so graphically depicted as enriching themselves in the last two decades. For those who haven't read it: here's his opening premise:

It’s no use pretending that what has obviously happened has not in fact happened. The upper 1 percent of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation’s income every year. In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent. Their lot in life has improved considerably. Twenty-five years ago, the corresponding figures were 12 percent and 33 percent. One response might be to celebrate the ingenuity and drive that brought good fortune to these people, and to contend that a rising tide lifts all boats. That response would be misguided.

While the top 1 percent have seen their incomes rise 18 percent over the past decade, those in the middle have actually seen their incomes fall. For men with only high-school degrees, the decline has been precipitous—12 percent in the last quarter-century alone. All the growth in recent decades—and more—has gone to those at the top. In terms of income equality, America lags behind any country in the old, ossified Europe that President George W. Bush used to deride. Among our closest counterparts are Russia with its oligarchs and Iran. While many of the old centers of inequality in Latin America, such as Brazil, have been striving in recent years, rather successfully, to improve the plight of the poor and reduce gaps in income, America has allowed inequality to grow.


<...>

...Here's the moneyquote from his speech today.

Think about it. In the last decade, the average income of the bottom 90% of all working Americans actually declined. The top 1% saw their income rise by an average of more than a quarter of a million dollars each. And that’s who needs to pay less taxes? They want to give people like me a two hundred thousand dollar tax cut that’s paid for by asking thirty three seniors to each pay six thousand dollars more in health costs? That’s not right, and it’s not going to happen as long as I’m President.

The fact is, their vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America.

<...>


I'm All In.

<...>

The speech was what I needed. He defended the core value of government and cooperation. He said he would refuse to extend the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy.

He explained why the defict is so large. He's right. And, long term, the defict must be addressed.

He said that Ryan's Plan would create "a fundamentally different America than we have known in our lifetime."

He presented two visions of America. I know which side I am on.

There will be things I disagree with in the details. And I'm sure I will criticize on substance and tactics from time to time. And I will get frustrated.

But for the first time since December, I feel a little hope.

He's right on shared sacrifice. And he's right on the core values. He defended the core values of Democrats, of most Americans.

<...>


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R
Obama's speech has more impact because he can attack the Republicans on what they have proposed - not on what he thinks they will propose.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. As long as he attacks them. Put them on defense.
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gademocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Theres the shot and when I see the follow through then and only then
Will my attitude change on President Obama.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
76. Agreed
I will continue to hope, but it's time to see some change.
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Cal33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
78. Don't forget, the tax cuts for the wealthy are valid until Dec. 2012.
The earliest the wealthy start paying their fair share is Jan. 2013.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm looking forward to seeing the amount the Koch Bros will have to pay.. nt
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. woo woo!
so he can dance. talk is cheap. time for our president to DO what he promises! he also said "everything's on the table."... ;)
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Just DO IT! nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. He can't without us.
So I guess the question becomes what are we going to do?

Cause if it's nothing, then we deserve what we end up with.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. thumbs up!
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 05:29 PM by Whisp
some people just don't get it, do they?
he needs our help, not our backbiting and sniping.

jeesus h. cripes

now all the moaners will chime in with
''well what the hell has the lazy bastard DONE for me lately?''

I don't want to come back as a human next go round on the reincarnation. We make me sick sometimes. :)
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
56. +1
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. We did our job. WE VOTED. Now it's up to our elected representatives
and administration to DO THEIRS.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. We voted back in 2008, and that's the end of it?
Somebody needs to break it to the Teaparty and
our media....cause they continue doing a job on
the American people......

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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. if you think that's where it ends
You've got a lot to learn.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. Don't presume to lecture me. I have been around long enough to see
that the NEW trend is for elected officials to ignore their supporters. I'm not happy. But they appear to be doing as them damned well please and FUCK THE VOTERS.
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #71
87. Agreed. When Obama's progressive supporters tried to nudge him
in the right direction, he attacked us. And he allowed the Bush tax cuts to be extended. So I think we can be forgiven for feeling a little skeptical at this point, FFS.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #87
107. He didn't attack us. Steve Gibbs criticized people on the supposed "Left" who promote conflict
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 12:43 PM by patrice
for conflict's sake, because they earn somekind of benefit from that, rather than being committed to making anything better. If you don't do that, if you put solutions for people ahead of conflict, Steve Gibbs was not talking about you. All of which begs the question as to why it is so taboo, why it is sooooo FORBIDDEN by the powers that be on the supposed "Left", to recognize that promoting conflict for conflict's sake is not something that happens ONLY on the Right. A very un PC topic around here, doesn't all of the de facto censorship on this observation make you just a little suspicious?
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #107
115. Well-said!
Unfortunately there are some people addicted to the feeling of misery. They would much rather be against than for something.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. It's as though we are supposed to believe that anyone who claims to be "the Left" is the Left.
This is SILLY.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. There is another group
of people who gloss over details and can only seem to process simple soundbytes that produce knee-jerk reactions.

I think we all know who they are. But I never expected so many of them to be HERE!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. This place is now Teabag Heaven. I am seriously considering removing my longstanding financial
support, but then, I bet that's what the Tea Bags ultimately want.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. If you ever feel like taking a walk through coo-coo world
sometime just take a look over at the now defunct Hillaryis44 site. I swear! Many of the comments over there sound reeeally familiar...
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. I started worrying about all of this so-called "crossover" stuff the minute some people began
pedaling it as one of Barak Obama's assets.

Yeah, crossover is fine, I guess, but what happens when they cross back again? Doesn't that add up to a double-cross? and then doesn't that possibility then enable triple+ crossing?
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #107
134. It wasn't just Gibbs ...
I remember someone highly placed in the administration - Rahmbo, I think - who referred to the "liberals" as "retards."

Bake
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. I hate that guy. And that was In-excusable!!!! nt
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #87
112. Agreed. The Prez. is on the campaign trail--making a LOT of promises, just like last time
I'll believe it when I see his actions. His net worth is $10 Million and all of his actions to date have benefited only himself and the other multi-millionaires.

Hail President Multi-Millionaire Obama. Everything's on the table!
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #71
113. When you think you know everything
the most obvious solutions escape you.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
84. Wish I could rec
Just your post! ;-)
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. I just don't see how the Republicans can't see this inevitability.
Our world is changing, fast. The inequities are going to cause strains which will be impossible to control by expecting people to remain civil. Oh yeah, civility is pretty much over too. Why make it worse?
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MercuryRepeater Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. will he get any credit for it from his detractors?? doubtful.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm a detractor and I've heard this speech before...
..i want to see ACTION now, not more words....but I am encouraged that at least he can still sound progressive when necessary...time will tell if it actually amounts to anything..
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. He's now in campaign mode
I'll believe it when I see it happen.

zalinda
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Nope...
You got that backward. You'll see it when you believe it. But don't take my word for it... "Reality is just an illusion." -- Professor Einstein.

Further his famous equation e=mc2 basically postulated that all of the universe is comprised of energy. So what are you spending your energy believing?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
98. I'd say "Absolutely true!" but Einstein, and Noam Chomsky, woud kick my ass, so I'll settle for
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:43 AM by patrice
"As near probably true as it is probably possible to get!!"
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #98
148. Your man Chomsky ... not a fan of Obama's cabinet selections
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #35
99. a belated WELCOME!! and I hope to see you out and about on this board more!
We need you.

:hi:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
110. Why are you expending energy "believing"?
My beliefs come from simply observing and learning. Fairly passive, as the intake of information goes.

But work yourself up, think that THIS time when X happens yet again,
instead an entirely new miracle A will occur!

If you just believe hard enough.
This time.

G'head -- knock yourself out. Peter Pan is a great book, and a great play, but most of us have grown up and have seen reality -- and clapping hard enough for Tinkerbell to live only works in fiction.


Oh and good f'ing luck trying to stoke up the 'Hope' and 'Change' ecstasy after all this! :rofl:
I wonder why they never address that?
Personally I'm waiting for 'Win the Future' to catch on... but doesn't seem like it's going to.
Oh well, I guess they'll have to try out new speechwriters.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. You obviously know little or nothing about perception. You are hard-wired for FILTERS.
If you think there's somekind of direct 1:1 ratio between what we refer to as "reality" and your mind, you are COMPLETELY mistaken.

There's also the whole issue of semantics. Have you ever actually read any Noam Chomsky?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #110
121. P.S. You believe all kinds of stuff, or you wouldn't be able to put one foot in front of another.
You just don't admit that you believe, or you call it something else.

Here's a clue: Science produces nothing but probabilities AND authentic Science ADMITS that.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #121
139. As a statistician/actuary
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 04:30 PM by Cherchez la Femme
and scientist (double major with Psychology) you don't have to tell me that honey.

I didn't remark at all upon the nature of believing/not believing, it's dead obvious we couldn't cope a minute without utiizing knowledge via prior observation. My post dealt with why one had to 'expend energy' to believe something.
That's not 'belief' regarding what goes on around us in our natural world; that's holy-roller faith in action.


We may be, but our thoughts are not energy. <---at least parapsychology hasn't proved that yet, Uri Geller, bless his manipulating little soul, notwithstanding.


Reading comprehension: It's all the rage.


edit: & yes, I've read Chomsky extensively, he's one of the few writers/thinkers out there worth reading.
What's your point?
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. I won't believe it when I see it unless my eyes were just checked!!! N/T
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
86. Bingo!!
That's the one thing he's good at, that and giving speeches. We can all hope that there's a follow through to the speech, but only time will tell.

;)
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. the meme changes from a PREDICTION that he'd announce major cuts ...
to ... "actions not words".

That meme is all the rage now that the predicted announcement of major cuts landed with a giant thud.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
61. you got it
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. That meme is all the rage now
The "actions not words" meme has been around since the Public Option was floated without ever intending to allow it. Maybe even before. It hasn't just become "all the rage" now.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
100. Where have you been? That's what he has said all along & Howard Dean before him, since 2004, and
then Dr. Martin Luther King and Ghandi before that, to name just a few. Perhaps it's kind of new to you (hmmmmm. . . ?), but MANY of us have been living with it all of our lives.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Welcome to DU. Thanks for your concern.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. I have been a detracter, but I do not believe in blanket approval just
because my President is a democrat. I dislike "no public option", and I hate that the rich got their damn tax cuts extended. That said, I will support him in every way if he keeps his word this time. BTW, it is the duty of every American to expect their President to keep his word after he has promised us that he will do so and we have given him our support and our vote. It would also be very nice if democrats would at last address election fraud. We need to keep reminding them that they have failed in this regard. We owe it to Andy Stephenson and all of the other wonderful DUers who worked long and hard hours attempting to arrest the direction our country was going in when all of our votes in this country with small exceptions were and are being twisted to suit the powers that be. I need no admonishments from anyone for holding Obama's feet to the fire, and will continue to do so.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
85. I'm a "detractor" I suppose,
and I thought he gave a good speech. Speeches don't pass laws. If the final result in close to what he proposed, then I'll be sort of satisfied, but I'm worried he's going to give the farm away again.

Remember all the pretty things he said during the campaign? Ending wars? Closing Gitmo? Restoring the rule of law?

Talk is cheap. I need to see action before I judge this.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe Obama should had something like
Those tax cuts for the rich that are in the 1-2% may not cost you now. But when you are eligible for Medicare or Medicaid it will cost you over $6,000 more a year in health care costs. Some of it courtesy of the Ryan Plan.

And those tax cuts for the rich means everyone else has to pay more in taxes now.
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Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
57. Yeah, he really has to spell it out.
And he has to dumb down his speeches and use the power of demonization. The Repukes have been demonizing liberals when we've been trying to provide safety nets and justice to the oppressed in society. We need to demonize the ultra wealthy who have been real demons in the sense that they've been turning our democracy into an oligarchy. Obama's a great speaker, never mind Faux News who claim that he needs a TelePrompTer to order at McDonald's. But, he needs to speak down to Americans. Too many of them don't know what "oligarchs" and "precipitous" mean.
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Left coast liberal Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. I thought the speech was excellent. Now, let's get to work and give him...
... the cover and the WILL to get it done.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. "And that’s who needs to pay less taxes?" Rock on Mr. President! nt.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
114. There's a big Change
from 4 whole months ago.

Honestly, how stupid does he think we ARE?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #114
149. ...
:evilgrin:
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Da-da-DA-da-da
I'm lovin' it!
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Big Kick
25 in '12
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. About damned time.
Here's hoping he digs in and fights hard now. I think if things keep up we can knock out the GOP next year.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. he did that campaigning in the 2010 election
he said all the right things. He sounded like a progressive. Everyone said "finally". And then he turned around and extended the Bush tax cuts. And got pissed when people didn't like it.

Here's something I noticed back then, which people here at DU got pissed at me for noticing: Obama very forcefully argued against the Bush tax cuts, but he never promised to VETO their extension. He slickly promised to veto extending them permanently, but he always left the door open to extend them "temporarily", which of course he ended up doing.

So, that is what I'll be watching for. All this stuff about how bad the GOP budget is, how bad their plan for Medicaid and Medicare. That's great, but will he VETO them?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. The one thing I found comfort in was that he did straight up say he would not extend these again
that seems a lot more of a clear statement on his part than he has ever given before on this issue. And if he does extend them it would be clear he lied, no wiggle room there.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. he said it pretty straight up before
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x434904

Axelrod: "The President would veto any bill that included extending tax cuts for the rich"
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I had not seen that before
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 05:42 PM by no limit
thansk for the link, but is there an actual transcript by any chance? No offense to the poster but this might just be their interpretation of what Axelrod said. And Axelrod was always good at adding conditions to any statements he made that made them sound affirmative but infact left lots of wiggle room.

Edit, just found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZM3Lo7WpM0

And yup, I was correct, he left himself wiggle room. He said he would only veto them IF it was a permanent extension.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. yes, I provided the actual transcript in a much less popular thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x435038

Yes, he left wiggle room (though some people angrily denied that) but he is he leaving any less wiggle room now? I haven't seen the speech yet, does he promise to veto another extension? Or is he just saying how bad he thinks the tax cuts are, like he did last time?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. He said today that he will not allow another extension of Bush tax cuts
This is the quote:


The fourth step in our approach is to reduce spending in the tax code. In December, I agreed to extend the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans because it was the only way I could prevent a tax hike on middle-class Americans. But we cannot afford $1 trillion worth of tax cuts for every millionaire and billionaire in our society. And I refuse to renew them again.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/obamas-deficit-speech-transcript/237274/

So if he did extend them even temporarily that would be an obvious lie as far as I can see, no wiggle room there. And these people don't ususally lie, they simply lead you to believe one thing using double speak while they do another.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
102. Or, he could change his mind
Remember, this is the Senator that voted against raising the debt ceiling, only to announce as President that it was mistake. Many of us thought he promised a public option too. You don't know where the loop holes are until after the fact.
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IamK Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. with the congressional makeup, it will be the house & senate that extends them...
so thats his out...
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
90. Not really, since he has veto power.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
62. no he brokered a compromise
That's what happens when democrats don't show up to vote. To leave out that little fact is disingenuous
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
103. And also to leave out what the House did right before the extension +
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 12:49 PM by patrice
Un-employment benefits being held hostage in the Senate, all at the same time, also doesn't help much. Not that I'm blaming you, just describing how people talk about Obama around here.

The House vote (theater for the benefit of Obama haters and their allies, various third partyers) to extend Middle Class Tax Cuts without extending the Upper Bracket Cuts, demonstrated to the Senate that the Middle Class/Dems wouldn't gut our budget problems out, by, as we have been calling upon the Rich to do, agreeing to PAY for what we want with Middle Class taxes. Therefore Obama had no options re the Upper Bracket extensions, because the Senate wasn't EVER going to separate those from the lower bracket cuts.

Add to this the fact that the Senate was also holding an end to DADT, the Dream Act, and Unemployment Benefit extensions ALL hostage. Obama did what he could with the situation, because all of the haters on this board would be screaming bloody murder about all of the rest of that stuff. As it is The Dream Act got tabled, but you don't hear anyone around here decrying how THAT happened.

The President DID "telegraph" this current speech in (what some insiders said were "angry") remarks to the press, right after the Bush Tax Cut extensions, but to hear people around here characterize all of that, he was laughing and rejoicing as being able to protect his rich buddies for at least 2 more years (TWO years, another convenient little fact that gets left out around here all of the time, or if someone does mention it, it is as purely 100% political opportunism). Disgusting.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. The above shows how people bitch about Fox News, but ACT exactly like it all of the time. nt
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Cartoonist Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Words from a liar
He already had a chance to let the Bush tax cuts expire. He did nothing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Taft_Bathtub Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. He conceded the tax cuts before the fight even started
Hence the "Punting on Third Down" meme.

Do you really think the extension of jobless benefits was worth the three year tax cut?
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. YES
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. to the jobless - Hell Yes
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
101. Why do you hate the unemployed?
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:48 AM by mkultra
why is the deficit more important to you than people?
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Taft_Bathtub Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #101
138. Why do you think that was the only option?
Why are you framing the debate in Republican terms?

Bush Tax Cuts had nothing to do with Extending Unemployment until Republicans and Obama decided it did. A real president with both houses and popular support would have recognized that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #63
118. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
julian09 Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
111. He had to let tax cuts continue otherwise
the tax cuts for all the others would have expired as well. The unemployment benefits start treaty, don't ask don't tell repeal, would not have happened.
Then they would have been on his case because he let taxes go up on middle class and broke Promise not to raise taxes on those making less than $250k.
Next time Bush tax cuts expire end of 2012, he will not renew extension, don't need congressional action to kill them, they just end.
If we give him a congress in 2012 that will take up middle class only tax cuts.
We will need to get the US House back, because that is where all the budget and financial legislation begins.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. I will K&R this since I was pleasantly surprised he actually went there
but lets remember rhetoric is not a substitute for action.
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Ratty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. This speech was great
It's the next speech I'm worried about. You know, where he has to explain all the practical reasons why he couldn't raise taxes on the rich and had to cut SS.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. good news
i'm ready for my re-elect bumper sticker.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
32. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Obama speaks well. What else is new?
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. He speaks so well!
Baahahahaha!

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. I have not heard the speech yet, but if all he did was refuse to extend the tax cuts, rather than
raising taxes on the wealthy, it's pathetic.

Not to mention getting out of three wars.
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
66. taxes alone can't bridge the gap
"According to Internal Revenue Service data, the entire taxable income of everyone earning over $100,000 in 2008 was about $1.582 trillion. Even if all these Americans—most of whom are far from wealthy—were taxed at 100%, it wouldn't cover Mr. Obama's deficit for this year." -WSJ

Pick whatever tax rate you want from 1940 to 2010, the Federal government collects between 15-20% of GDP (because people change behavior).
People need enter this debate with realistic expectations. Not just for what will happen, but what is even possible.
Taxing 15% and spending 25% is a recipe for ruining the currency (since it pyramided on our debt).
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
132. Have you seen the Progressive Caucus Tax Proposal?
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #132
146. so?
I'm pointing out that a 100% tax rate on everyone making over $100,000 wouldn't close the deficit, and you show me a plan to tax billionaires 49%?

You don't seem to get it. The nation has had tax rates over 90% for the highest income earners, and still didn't take in enough taxes to cover the level of outlays we have now. If the entitlement schedules don't change the outlays will only keep growing.

Look back at how much taxes the government collected from the 1930s to 2010. It doesn't matter what combination of tax rates on income existed, the amount the federal government could collect ranged between 18-20%.

We're looking at federal spending growing and growing until it is 40% or more of U.S. GDP It is a mistake to assume we can simply tax ourselves out of this problem.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #146
150. Tax rates of the 50's would end the debt in 10 years. The debt.
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #150
153. ok, I'll show you the numbers
since you made that up without looking.



We're spending 25% of GDP.
Even with 50s's tax rates we weren't extracting that much in taxes from the economy.

We need to deal with FACTS.
Emotion and assumption have no place in this debate.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #153
154. Take a look at these numbers!
Obama says that eliminating the Bush tax cut (4% increase) will raise 700 billion in revenues in 10 years.

Which means a 40% increase on the top tax rate to a rate similar to the pre-Reagan rate of 79.6% would yield 7 trillion in 10 years.

A 58% increase to 94% would yield over 10 trillion dollars over the next 10 years.

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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. So the man who's been the embodiment..
..of a variety of things liberals detest makes a speech and suddenly people pretend FDR's in office. Do you seriously think this man, who's done so much for the wealthy, who has ensconced members of banking interests and the corporate elite into his government, who has adopted the Republican rhetoric time and again of "cutting government," is really interested in finally going head-to-head with the power they wield? Seriously?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I think he will see what he said today through. If not, approval rating will plunge below bush's.

He was pretty clear today -- he can't get out of this without losing a big chunk of Democrats including a bunch of folks who could be branded as "apologists" right now. Even, I've written this chit down. Kind of like ED Schultz tonight beaming with pride over the speech, but saying he was going to remember everything he said until he's out of office.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
40. I expect him to apologize for this in a couple of days, or rephrase it with an
"oops, didn't really mean that".
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. you're all in, eh. what a surprise.
note, as he gives another pretty speech he attacks medicare.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. It sounds good
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 09:38 PM by LatteLibertine
and the reasons I'm skeptical; Bernanke, Summers and Geithner. To me, that says Goldman Sachs and their ilk are still largely in control of both political parties. Wall Street is basically doing the exact same things they were doing before the crash.

Our politicians truly had a chance to force meaningful reform during the TARP situation and it was squandered.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. It was a good speech. He gives good speeches (His detractors are correct)
What I disagree with them on is this speech had a lot of substance.
It laid out his vision for where we needed to go and how to get there.
The things I was concerned he might give in on were not there.

It's an A-.
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
46. He can talk a good game, but the proof is at the negotiating table.
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
47. Am I in the top 1%?
I did not have the time today to follow the speech. So what is the
exact income level which will lose the tax cuts? I heard on radio it
was $200k. That can't be top 1%. I would think it is north of million/year.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
129. The Progressive Caucus proposal is to raise the bottom of the top bracket
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 01:29 PM by patrice
The top bracket STARTS at $373K, which really seems unfair to me to lump those folks in with billionaires, so they want to raise the bottome of that top bracket and then raise the rates above that progressively to about 47% (for billionaires, I think).

I like this proposal, because it makes sense, in terms of JOBS, that bottom part of the top brackets, UNLIKE THOSE ABOVE THEM, may actually be really interested in authentic entrepreneurship, while those above them have to much invested in the opposite of entrepreneurship, i.e. STASIS.

Here's the link:
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=49&parentid=6§iontree=&itemid=276

:hi:

edited: for error re the bottom of the top tax brackets.
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #129
141. yes, $343k is not filthy rich by a long shot
People earning over $1 Million per year should be where the tax bracket should be
adjusted upwards.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. That's my guess. Seems that would also open up some capital for entrepreneurship too.
Assuming that that group $373K to $1 million IS a group that is different from those above them in that, because they are less well off, they are also less married to the private Economic Royalty that robbed this country so thoroughly.

They are on the cusp between economic classes; aren't they, therefore, a group who would be interested in actually creating jobs as an opportunity to get really rich (and also to avoid sliding down any lower, which is an interesting concept in itself, because there will be those up there who will have a motive not to lose their place as the ones below them sink even lower)?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. Ok he talked, now let's see what he does.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
49. Also if you want to hit the wealthy
you go after capital gains and dividends more so than earned income.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. After having rewarded them by extending tax cuts .... I'm impressed ... NOT!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
123. Please comment on my post #105 above.
:hi:
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
52. 2012 is right around the corner.
It's hard not to be extremely cynical despite the fact that these are harsh words, and true.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. Talk is Cheap
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
106. Right. And Howard Dean would say our own talk is cheap too. What matters is action on the issues. nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
126. And it IS our action on the issues that a lot of people are trying to suppress with bull about Obama
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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
54. wow
when he actually does something about it, let me know
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Jim_Shorts Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
55. Didn't Obama just start his reelection campaign?
I will withhold my full support until I see what he actually does. (He made a lot of promises before)
The devil is in the details

btw - who were those two guys sitting to his left? (Erskine and Alan) What do they recommend? We should know in just a few weeks what he REALLY fights for.

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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
60. "He went there!"
How ridiculous.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #60
75. It's a great line.
I love it. How many times have you been talking to someone in the past 15 years and they said, "Don't go there", as if it is a place?

Ya know whut I mean, Vern?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
68. Great Speech!!! And hopefully a tough stand about to be taken. REC. nt
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
69. nice campaign-mode speech. pleasant surprise, in a way.

nearly meaningless without real actions to back it up, though, given his record. actions speak louder than words.

i'm willing to give it a glimpse of hope, though. hey, i'll even rec for the sake of hope, so there!!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
70. Obama said some good things, but he was ambiguous
about Social Security and Medicare. Those are not just money issues for those of us who are over 65 and no longer able to obtain employment. Those are survival issues.

But Obama does not relate to older people, and he does not understand what the stakes are for Social Security and Medicare. We cannot accept changes to those systems. Especially not in a social climate in which so many conservatives are just aching to kill off older people who are not rich. And I very literally mean kill us off.

I know a woman who is over 70. She lost her home about 2 years ago to a foreclosure. She relies on Social Security -- paying rent as well as food and utilities. Unfortunately, her health leaves much to be desired. She will simply not survive if Social Security and Medicare are "changed" to become more healthy.

The only change that should be made to Social Security and Medicare is to impose the FICA taxes on all income including capital gains and the incomes that the brokers on Wall Street earn and then pay everyone their due without means-testing.
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SunSeeker Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
72. My favorite line: "There's nothing courageous...
about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don't have any clout on Capitol Hill." I bet it made Ryan tinkle a bit.

The full text is on TPM: http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/text-of-president-obamas-speech-on-deficit-reduction.php
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
74. If there's one thing we should have all learned from Ronnie Raygun it is, never mind what he says,
watch what he does. In many instances Obama has exemplified this caution, as in closing Gitmo, single payer health care, restoration of habeas corpus, renegotiating NAFTA to incorporate Labor standards, ending the war in Iraq by re-designating the mission, etc., ad nauseum.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
77. k&r nt
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cate94 Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
79. K & R
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Indydem Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
80. Reality Check Folks
Even if you tax EVERYONE making more than $100k at 100%, you cannot cover the budget deficit.

Sorry to bring a little reality to this, but we have a big problem.
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julian09 Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #80
142. Don't forget those under 100k will ALSO be paying taxes
add those in to the total.
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Tanelorn Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
81. And so it begins. Hope at last
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Mason Dixon Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #81
89. wow. you're just now
getting hope after three years. What's the slogan, "vote for me and I'll give you change in 2015"
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #81
131. Disregard criticism on your post. I'm with you. I worked for him and contributed, but saw
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 01:36 PM by patrice
nothing but Congressional gridlock and war, from the beginning. Gridlock and war will continue, BECAUSE of our whole History, NOT caused nor promoted or supported by Obama, but I am encouraged by the fact that President Obama very clearly stated that Republicans are trying to FUNDAMENTALLY change this country.

I, for one, am hopeful because all of this is causing LABOR to wake up and get out there and defend themselves.

:hi:
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
82. Just words from an empty suit........
track record is how one is judged, and that is Bush like!!
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Pholus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
83. Well, the words were nice and long overdue.
When the actions match them, I'm back on board completely.
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Corruption Winz Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
88. When "your guy" makes a speech..
Of any kind really, I feel you should force yourself to listen with cautioned ears.

I will say, however, that listening to him was reassuring to a certain extent. Obviously, believe half of what you hear and heavily doubt the other half. Still, when he said, "That’s not right, and it’s not going to happen as long as I’m President," I did feel reassured.

The fact of the matter is only time will tell. While time is precious, this allows for a far better outlook than was once considered our future.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
91. Now lets see if anything actually happens and not just more campaign promises.
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Cowpunk Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
92. Admit it. You were already "All In"
If you went "all in" because of a speech, you're an idiot.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
93. In yo' face Eddie Munster
IN YO' FACE
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
94. Campaigning is easy. Governing is hard.
We know which one the President prefers.
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
95. Talk is cheap.
The 1% he's talking about are the beneficiaries of a huge tax cut, signed into law by President Obama.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #95
125. It's as blatant as could be
you'd think that people who had at least 2 gray cells to rub together could see it,

instead, there is pure ecstasy going on about what a beautiful set of clothes the Emp... er, the POTUS is wearing.
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
96. Pleased to be Rec'ing a proSense thread.
We don't see eye-to-eye much - but if what was said becomes what was did we will all be "together again".

The Party leaders tore us apart - they can re-unite us.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #96
105. & I'd rec you on that if I could believe that anyone saying that sort of thing includes us in "did"
There are too many people who WANT this president to fail for various DISPARATE reasons and they have found common cause. Notice how they poke fun at the "actions not words" meme when it is applied to them above.

How much, maybe at least 50%?, of what actually happens DEPENDS upon our own work on the issues, but there's a bunch around here who will do nothing but wait and hope that Obama fails.
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #105
127. No, patrice, no.
That's just not the case,

What powers so many here that speak so negatively of Obama is the sheer, bloody desperation of their lives.

Many here are unemployed, uninsured. Watching familiy members slide into poverty and disgrace.

They sound so bad... because their lives are quite bad.

And the traditional political "horserace" is a luxury they can't afford anymore. Many of us need concrete results now. 2 years ago - and not just little steps either.

Now there is a too-disappointed-to-vote crowd here at DU - and you and I should team up to help people out of that understandable trap.

And voting is only Step 1. Step 2 is the hard work you mention above. But remember, you may be urging someone in quite deseperate straights to add to the burdens in their lives.

So.... think of who might be expressing disappointment with the Prez. Poor, sick, failing people just may speak harshly about timid half-measures from those at the top.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #127
135. Hey, I'm kind of desparate myself, but that doesn't mean that I surrender my mind to passers-by.
You CAN'T get folks out in the streets around here, or it's always just the same ones showing up over and over. All of this focus on Obama displaces each person's own responsibility to work on their own issues and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. He's the best that this particularly corrupt system can offer and we CAN use him to go forward, but WE have to do our own work, because if we don't he has NO reason to do anything for us, in fact ANYTHING he does try that MIGHT be more or less for us (say, for instance, the way that ACA 2010 could evolve into Medicare for All, like Bernie Sanders says it can), anything he does try that MIGHT be more or less for us, becomes a political liability unless we are out there doing the work on OUR OWN ISSUES.

He had a universally FUNDAMENTAL problem, from the start, how much and where were all of those chips that were tossed in the air by the Derivative Crash of 2008 going to come down, relative to what actual equity, in the back rooms behind the back rooms behind the invisible doors of our PRIVATE financial sector (he STILL has this problem - though I believe the Progressive Caucus is trying to address it in their tax proposal, which I linked a couple of places in this thread). It was this problem that made him make the mistake of not supporting a Public Option at all; he was betting things weren't THAT bad in those back rooms and some of those folks would come forward with some help for ACA 2010. However bad things are or are not for them, our PRIVATE economic royalty didn't step up on anything. In fact, they got more and more and more extreme and actually ARE holding most of us hostage at this point. I understand what you are saying about Obama's opposition on this board and I do credit those facts. It just seems to me that desperation would drive people to know and understand more about the WHOLE thing, so that they then can do the things that would help themselves the best. I don't see that happening here.

It's learned helplessness, being assisted by some rather duplicitous actors, and adding up to self-fulfilling prophecy. No matter how bad the system is, some of us are doing a pretty good job of hurting ourselves.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. P.S. There ARE people who have decided that the ONLY answer is Total Destruction. nt
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 02:12 PM by patrice
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #127
147. Astute! nt
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
97. About Time
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:35 AM by Mark D.
He finally addresses the core problem head on. When you debate a so-called conservative, I have
suggestions, to win the debate. Win on their terms. They are un-American, communists, socialists.
There's NOTHING more fun than calling Paul Ryan or Rand Paul communist, socialist & un-American.

Let me explain. Un-American if what they push for only benefits 1% by screwing the other 99% it
simply is un-American. A building with 100 windows. Break 99 and repair one of them. How is that
not an 'un-Window' policy? Get the analogy? Don't let them steer the debate like that & you win.

If your policies hurt 99% to help 1% of Americans, based on everyday logic, you are un-American.
And if your policies redistribute money to just the top 1% as is proven, it is then market-socialism.
If the result will eventually leave the 99% so poor they must commune to survive, it's communism.
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arrestblankfein Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. Okay, Obama, I am with you...now time to go after Goldman Sachs and Koch
Goldman Sachs' Blankfein Lied Under Oath to Congress http://t.co/YZq8e4J

Didn't they impeach Clinton for that?

The Contango Game: How Koch Industries Manipulates The Oil Market For Profit http://t.co/VGjhZmR
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. 1+++++++++++++++
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
116. Last night, Obama showed us he can still talk the talk
He is still to show me he can walk the walk. I want to be convinced.
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
117. Nice, but......
He talked a lot like this while running for president. I'd be more inclined to think he'll back up this tough talk if he finally goes hard after the robber baron banksters, including the people he hired as his financial brain trust.

I hope the real progressives in congress hold him to this rhetoric, privately and publicly.

In the end some of us really want real change in favor of everyday americans but a lot of people desperately need things to change ASAP, they are going under.



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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
130. Happy to K&R, ProSense.
:hi:
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
140. now we wait for him
to go there with actions. I am tried of speeches, its time to prove it
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. Short of moving into your house and running your life for you, there's not that much he can do that
will be effective against his/our Economic Royalty, unless we get out there and WORK for our own issues in our own communities, ergo waiting is a self-fulfilling failure prophecy, so let us not pretend that it's anything else; let us not pretend that success really matters that much when we will not make the investment of our own activities in that success (or we have OTHER alternatives for) ourselves.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
145. Interesting how often the word "wait" is repeated in this thread. Any hypotheses? Anyone? nt
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #145
151. Wait is all one can do on an Obama proposal when one has invested themselves in a pig in a poke.
I'm not selling something that I don't know what it is again.

I am concerned that we are being herded into accepting and even promoting Catfood as a "sensible" and "adult" alternative to the Ryan scheme. I'm not saying that is the grand strategy but I'm not selling "The President's plan" until the details come together.

I also, as a side, think folks need to cease and desist with the nonsense the President isn't a gigantic influence on legislation. Its just false, modern Presidents initiate all the time and have a tremendous center of gravity within their own party and usually some influence on the opposition as well. Certainly in the media. If the President is behind something then such an effort is automatically "serious".
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Stoic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
152. In a speech!
I'm sure they're trembling in their boots now.
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