Michael Moore misquotes the Constitution while claiming others should read the Constitution

[Motown_Johnny]

Context, KO's new show



Sorry Michael, it does not say "only".


This is an undeniable fact.

[DavidDvorkin]

1. A bit more detail would help.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. I am kinda on his side so don't want to sling to much mud, but...

He was saying that President Obama should read the Constitution because it says that only Congress can declare war.


The context is a discussion about Libya

[Fumesucker]

17. According to the Constitution, who else can declare war?

Answer the question that's already been asked at least once or admit you are wrong.

[Luminous Animal]

19. Could you give us the exact quote, please? Also, it would be nice if you answered the question...

which other branch of government is Constitutionally allowed to declare war?

[Drale]

2. Um what did he misquote exactly?

[monmouth]

3. I wish he'd take that stupid hat off. ...n/t

[SoapBox]

11. hehe...I've thought the same sometimes.

[inna]

4. anyone who bashes Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann.... nm

[Motown_Johnny]

6. ah yes, screw the facts if it is liberals ....

nice

[railsback]

7. Yeah, everyone on the Right knows

that Barney the Dog can declare war, too. Michael Moore is dumb. Geez. 'Only Congress'. What a laugh.

[marmar]

10. "Michael Moore is dumb."

:wtf: Some extraordinary sh*t gets posted on DU sometimes.

[bbinacan]

23. I'll add, Moore

is not only dumb, but he's a fatass hypocrite. Let me help you out here, think unions.

[ieoeja]

51. Perfect example: someone reading a post claiming Barney the Dog can declare war then failing to see

the post as sarcasm.

[WatsonT]

37. If Michael Moore had said Paul Reveres ride was to alert the British

then by god it'd be true!

[PoliticAverse]

8. Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 grants Congress the exclusive power to declare war.

Only Congress may declare war.

[Generic Other]

18. That's how I read it

Am I missing some mysterious new meaning in those words?

[PoliticAverse]

24. No...

The poster apparently is taking issue with Moore saying that the Constitution says that "only congress can declare war"
when the word "only" isn't there even though that's how the clause is overwhelmingly interpreted.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
...
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
...

[Generic Other]

30. Ohhhhhh....

Trick question. Like asking if only MM died with his boots on vs. asking if MM died with only his boots on.

[fascisthunter]

61. So this post is making something out of nothing

[Puregonzo1188]

9. Are you saying that not only Congress can declare war?

Or are you merely arguing over the technicality of his language?

Do you think the President can declare war without Congress?

Who else?

[Scuba]

12. I made a mistake once too. I'm still a good liberal and I think MM is too. n/t

[City Lights]

13. Did he say he was directly quoting a portion of the Constitution word for word?

Could he have been paraphrasing?

Could you possibly be nitpicking?

So many questions, so little time.

[ZombieHorde]

14. Who else in the US can declare a war? nt

[WCGreen]

16. I can and I did...

I declair war on the fucking groundhog that is undermining our back building...

[Fumesucker]

21. Caddyshack!!

[PoliticAverse]

34. Are gopher's worse than groundhogs?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRpDo-TCzs

[WatsonT]

38. Depends: do those programs like the war on drugs/poverty count?

[ZombieHorde]

43. No, I was referring to military wars in other nations. nt

[Capitalocracy]

50. Maybe we should declare a war on jobs

After all, the war on poverty, war on drugs, and war on terrorism just seem to lead to more poverty, drugs, and terrorism, so maybe we should try a war on jobs

[WatsonT]

60. Hehe I like that

And a war on balanced budgets and deflation.

[Puregonzo1188]

42. The Supreme Court? Maybe State Legislators.

Seriously, I can't tell if this is a nit picky post or someone is trying to insinuate the Constitution grants other branches of government the ability to declare war and if so I'd like a list of which ones.

[Samantha]

45. This is the way Civics classes of yesterday taught this subject

The President as Commander-in-Chief can launch a defense without Congressional authority should this Country be attacked and immediate action is needed. But only Congress can declare war.

Sam

[baldguy]

15. MM gets one word wrong, but the people he's criticizing get entire sections wrong.

But MM is the guy with the problem. Yeah, right.

:crazy:

[Luminous Animal]

20. Well, there is no quote provided so who knows what Mike said.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. But he did not get it wrong. Nobody else is listed in the Constitution

as having the power to declare war.

[white_wolf]

22. He wasn't quoting anything.

He was paraphrasing it. If I were to say the Bill of Rights say there should be separation between church and state I wouldn't misquoting, because while it doesn't say those exact words, that is what it means. That is what Micheal Moore was doing. He was merely saying what it meant, he never claimed to be quoting anything.

[bbinacan]

25. Saying what it meant?

That's interesting. I guess many say what it meant. Think about that for a minute.

[Fumesucker]

27. According to the Constitution, who can declare war?

Is there any other entity besides Congress that can declare war?

[bbinacan]

28. Only Congress!

:toast:

[white_wolf]

35. The point is the OP is actiing like he was quoting it.

He was not nor did he say he was quoting it.

[Fearless]

26. You are wrong and if KO said that he is also wrong.

The passage (Article One, Section Eight) is interpreted by two hundred years of judicial review, to mean that ONLY Congress has the power to declare war... Just like ONLY Congress has the power to do the other things that the section mentions.

[LiberalAndProud]

29. KO didn't disagree with MM.

just for the record

[Fearless]

48. That is good.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. That's right up there with saying there is no separation of church and state

because those exact words do not appear in the Constitution.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Exactly what I was going to post!!!

Only this one is deeper, because it is easy to show that no other is given the power to make war. Congress is, and no one else. Moore was correct, and also not quoting.
This OP is tripe.

[Demit]

33. You have my vote for smallest quibble to ever start a thread with in the history of DU.

[JVS]

36. -1 for sophistry

[trumad]

39. The douchiess thread I've read in a long time...

with some nice douchebag trolls to go along with it.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. It doesn't give the power to anybody else therefore it's an appropriate paraphrase

However, it doesn't say that the President is only authorized to use military force in the event of a declared war. And the Supreme Court refuses to weigh in on that one. Hence, it gets complicated..

[coalition_unwilling]

41. You should read the Constitution instead of posting douchey

threads like this that falsely impugn Michael Moore who was not quoting but paraphrasing. Big difference.

[TheKentuckian]

44. Was he quoting? If not then he is absolutely correct. Congress is the only body granted

such authority.

If he said something along the lines of "The Constitution says only Congress may declare war" then that is the only reasonable or logical interpretation.

If he was attempting to quote then he should have just read if he doesn't have it memorized.
I also kind of take exception with the allusion to having not read something if it happens to be demonstrated that one hasn't committed something to memory, word for word.

Anyway, I wish it was clearer what is actually being discussed in some context rather than an accusation and busting a ninja.

[MrMickeysMom]

46. Me thinks you haven't done a good job with this statement -

... so, maybe you had better put on the thinking cap Johnny. Make sure it's as cool as Moore's.

[xphile]

47. Let me get this straight, you're nitpicking because Michael Moore used the word "only"

which doesn't show up in the constitution when he's discussing the declaration of wars which can only be done by Congress?

Setting aside the overly pedantic nit. Where exactly was Michael Moore wrong about the whole declaration of war thing?

[Capitalocracy]

49. Nothing wrong with saying "only" when only one entity is afforded the power to declare war

in the document

This is an undeniable fact.

I mean, really, I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. The Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war, and does not grant this power to any other entity. Therefore, saying that the Constitution says that only Congress can declare war is a factual statement.

I really don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make, can you explain it to me? Who else has the power to declare war, your local PTA?

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. "Exclusively" = "only". Mike's right. n/t

[oldlib]

53. The President can declare war.

Congress pays the military, giving them the control of the operation, that the President doesn't have.

[Bandit]

54. Wrong

Unless you mean some stupid shit like the "War on Terror" or the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Poverty" then yes the President can declare those "Wars".. However "ONLY" Congress can officially declare a real "War"..

[4lbs]

55. While Congress has the express power to Declare War, there are ways to get around it.

Presidents have been doing it for centuries.

Remember Teddy Roosevelt's war where he invaded while Congress debated?

Remember that little "war" in Grenada or the one in the Falklands? Where was Congress' declaration in those?

Any conflict that lasts less than two months, the President can engage without Congress' explicit approval.

Then there is the idea of martial law. The POTUS, citing national security reasons, can designate an area of the world under US martial law, and then suddenly can do whatever is desired without Congressional approval.

Furthermore, once a POTUS puts troops in a foreign country, true Congress has the power to fund their operations. But what if they don't? Then what? The POTUS will simply tell Congress, "Fine, YOU get them out. Oh, whoops, the same Constitution that gives you the Congress power to declare war gives ME the power to command the troops, not you. Therefore, they're not going anywhere unless I say so. Oh, and I say they STAY! So, now are you, the Congress, going to allow US troops to languish in a foreign land without proper financial support? How will that sit in the polls and with the American public?"

Remember back in 1989/1990 when Bush Sr. threw 500,000 US troops into Saudi Arabia, preparing for war with Iraq, without Congressional approval? Congress sat up and cried, "Hey! You can't do that without our approval!" Bush Sr. simply told them, "OK, fine, YOU get them out then, if you won't fund military operations." Congress capitulated and voted for full funding.

Congress will always back down in such a threat. They will never actually vote against funding and engage in a standoff with the President.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. What gave you the impression he was quoting not stating the

facts in a paraphrased way? Unless you can show a hidden portion of that document that gives the power to declare war to another entity than the US Congress, you are simply wrong, Moore was right, and that is an undeniable fact.
DU rules let people post falsehoods, and that is all rage with the 'moderates' it seems. This is among the most steaming piles of agenda laced bullshit I have ever read on DU.

[Motown_Johnny]

58. CAN WE PLEASE LET THIS THREAD DIE? I'm sorry I said anything

and I promise not to do it again

[A-Schwarzenegger]

59. You can alert on it, ask to have it locked.