We are in a second Great American Depression

[Cyrano]

No politician will dare utter the word “depression.” But you have to be brain dead to not understand that that’s where we are.

The unemployment rate, the lack of jobs, the used-up savings, the widespread misery, cat food for the elderly, no education for the young – I don’t know what any sane human being would call it anything other than a depression.

But the big difference between this one, and the one of the 1930s, is that we don’t have an FDR in sight. We’re on our own. Our Democratic president either doesn’t recognize where we are, (which I don’t believe), or thinks what he’s doing or not doing will help him get reelected.

And as bad as things are, the Republican Party is hell bent on pushing us deeper into the quicksand of misery.

So this is the way America falls. Cowardly politicians caving into bullies, or selling out for their own personal interests. A bought and paid for media, looking the other way while all the rest of us are being raped, pillaged and plundered. And millions of fools believing what they’re told by Fox “news,” and Rush.

Our country has been conquered by the unscrupulous, the insatiably greedy, and absolute morons. And we don’t even know the names of most of those who are controlling those who are screwing us.

So what are we going to do about it? I wish I knew. But I’d like to hear your opinions.

[Hugabear]

1. It's not a Depression. It's the end of American prosperity

If this were a Depression, that would signify things will eventually return to "normal". That's not going to happen this time.

[TheKentuckian]

2. Reducing demand, exporting jobs and treasure, pissing the national wealth in to hot sand and cold

gravel, increasing the wealth gap while funneling more and more resources to the absurdly wealthy, absolute refusal to invest in maintaining our existing infrastructure while scoffing at the modernization required to remain competitive with the world, deforming education, and having a stubborn prime directive of supporting the financial sector no matter how insane they are or how much they steal will tend to effectively creating such conditions whether they match historic definitions or not.

[pnwmom]

3. The people still alive now who lived through the first one disagree.

I'm sure there are certain areas where things feel as bad -- the Las Vegas suburbs, for example. But there was over 25% unemployment during the Depression -- much worse than the U.S. has now.

[frustrated_lefty]

15. Estimated real unemployment ranges >>>18%

Whether what we're experiencing qualifies as a depression I leave to the financial gurus to determine. But, there appears to be a general agreement that the official unemployment numbers are artificially deflated by, among other things, people being unemployed for so long that they fall off the rolls. Estimates ranging from May of 2010 to May of this year have ranged from ~16.5-22% (numbers obtained googling "real unemployment America," make of that what you will).

For myself, I'm coming up on 1 year unemployed, the first time I've been unemployed for more than 2 or 3 months since I started working 25 years ago. No clue if it's a Depression, but it's damned depressing.

[pnwmom]

17. The 25% Depression number also understated the reality.

But I'm not trying to minimize the real suffering people are experiencing now -- it doesn't matter whether it's a depression or a recession when you're the one out of work. I hope things get better for you soon!

[jwirr]

24. The definition also does not change the fact that this mess is not

going to get better soon if ever. We are a totally different world now than then. More urban, more dependant on sources controlled by others - i.e. grocery stores, etc. FDR also had a country that was rich in cheap oil and other natural resources. I for one do not think in the long run we are going to be able to continue the lifestyles we live now even if we can create jobs to maintain it for a while longer.

[JDPriestly]

4. Buy second-hand, American-made or not-at-all.

Stop buying foreign-made junk until the foreign countries raise their wages to meet ours, and our corporations and wealthy start paying a fairer share of the taxes.

[Donnachaidh]

9. And be loud about refusing to buy from companies that outsourced our economy

Take your business to small local banks, and buy from locals. Tell the big boxes where to put them.

[patrice]

13. Good! advice!

[DevonRex]

5. No we aren't. Depression has a specific definition. Nt

[Yo_Mama]

39. We're far closer to it than you think

The common definition of a depression depends on the length of the downturn and the fall in GDP (double digits).

But GDP is supposed to be equivalent to national income - economically, that is what we are trying to calculate when we calculate GDP. Many countries calculate both GDI and GDP and release them both. In the US, historically we have concentrated on GDP.

When you look at incomes, it is apparent that GDI fell much further than our calculation of GDP and has rebounded far less. For instance, take a look at this chart from www.calculatedriskblog.com:


A measurement such as this shows you why we are in troouble. We are sustaining national income only by hugely increasing payments from the government to the people, and we are borrowing tons of money to do it.

We have not rebounded from the downturn, and we may well be going into another, and we are running out of money to keep the fantasy going.

[patrice]

6. We have to face the fact that it may not about what "...will help him get elected..."

and may instead be that he is seriously mistaken about how that star he has had on his ass ever since college got there and that his experience is a model for how "merit" really is valued in this country.

[Lisa D]

31. 'mistaken about how that star he's had on his ass...?

'his experience is a model for how "merit" really is valued in this country."

I'm truly confused by what you're saying here. Could you spell it out for me?

[Crazy Dave]

7. No one wants to admit it and will vote for more of the same in 2012 n/t

[patrice]

They don't want to admit it, because it ****IS**** painful!! nt

[TheKentuckian]

11. More of the same might even be better than competing versions of worse.

[Mojorabbit]

27. There it is in a nutshell. nt

[TheKentuckian]

You can't forget decade after decade of wage destruction and starving the government of revenue

I'd like an explanation of how these practices and policies are going to benefit the people or how we maintain a functioning society and anything approaching broad opportunity and upward mobility.

If the vast majority are heading for subsistence working then it doesn't matter what you call it, it is all bad.

[msongs]

8. yes but we are doing nation building overseas. isn't that wonderful lol nt

[cantbeserious]

10. The Best Answer For Fixing Short Term Problems Is A Raise In Wages

See the explanation provided by Steve Keen midway through this Keiser Report.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x595065

[nebenaube]

16. But if we do that we'll be carting wheelbarrels full of cash to buy bread! n/t

[cantbeserious]

26. There Are Two Choices - Default or Inflation - Inflation Is Considered More Manageable

Watch the video link provided.

[coalition_unwilling]

12. It's not a Great Depression (or even a 'depression') yet, as economists

define the term. When economists use the term, 'depression' requires a shrinkage in GDP of greater than 10% and that simply has not happened. A 'recession,' by contrast, requires only two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, no matter how small the percentage shrinkage.

Having said that, I in no way wish to minimize the severity of this Great Recession (as I call it). I came of age in the mid- to late 70s and well remember the 'stagflation' (sustained high unemployment and high inflation) that did so much to limit Carter to a single term. This 'Great Recession' smells to me like Stagflation, v. 2.0, but I suppose only time will tell. Thus far, we have had the sustained high unemployment but the inflation has remained for the most part in check.

The austerity programme the Repukes are promoting will indeed heighten the severity of this current recession. With 18 months until November 2012, it's anyone's guess whether their fiscal ineptitude will push us into a Depression. It has not arrived yet, but it may still do so.

[pnwmom]

18. I don't think the Repubs are fiscally inept. I agree with Durbin

that they are doing this on purpose, in order to keep the economy weak -- to reduce Obama's chances of reelection.

[rampart]

30. our gdp includes who knows how much in derivative assets

that may have little or no value at all.

i say depression.

[sarcasmo]

14. One big Chinese warehouse.

[Initech]

19. It's not a depression - it's the beginning of a fascist theocratic corporate takeover.

[Old Codger]

20. Permanent

recession, the new "normal"... Might as well get used to it for the foreseeable future.

[cali]

21. No, we're not. That may happen, but no, at this time, we are not in an era

such as the great depression.

[kenny blankenship]

22. As long as it's not a Depression for the rich (and it isn't) then it doesn't count

A half dozen or so apologists will be by to tell you that things are just PEACHY with GDP, so there can't be any problem.

Never do they bother to mention how much of that GDP is represented by the Fed dishing out interest free money to financial speculators who are millionaires and billionaires on Wall St. See, a unit of GDP is just a unit of GDP. It doesn't admit distinctions between activities which represent the creation and purchase of real goods and services, and activities which represent nothing more than bidding wars for paper assets ie, speculation. And never do they mention who will ultimately have to pay for all that interest free fuel for Wall St. speculation: ordinary citizens who are constrained to earn their living in US dollars and buy everything in US dollars.

As long as Wall St is in cake, the Obama economy is A-OK and working the way Ronald Reagan would have wanted it. Don't you say a word against it.

[hulka38]

33. Great post

especially about the distinction between real and phony production and how that distinction is glossed over by people who know better.

[The Big Vetolski]

42. Dude! You nailed it!

:applause: Glad somebody else here can see it.

[amborin]

23. Dean Baker thinks yes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1239007&mesg_id=1239007

[obliviously]

25. It's like Extreme Depression

Great depression was like copyrighted, just sayin'

[greytdemocrat]

28. This whole thread is depressing. n/t

[tabasco]

29. You don't know much about the Great Depression,

do you?

[shoutinfreud]

36. Yeah, when people are starving to death in the country, come talk to me.

[PufPuf23]

32. I expect to die prematurely because of lack of health care

and employment opportunity given my age and health and being kind and moral in my life.

I am more educated than probably 98% of the USA.

I fear our health care system in how I die more than anything else.

[greytdemocrat]

37. Yeah...

Well good luck with that education buddy.

[Shagbark Hickory]

34. The only thing that can save us now is some socialism or communism.

I don't see either happening though.

[shoutinfreud]

35. Yeah, cause SO many socialist and communist countries had no problems feeding their people.

What can SAVE you is giving up on the stupid idea of globalization and begin engaging in trade protectionism. The USA still has tons of cash, keep it in the countyr.

[Shagbark Hickory]

41. A pretty large number of capitalist economies also have problems with poverty and hunger.

The countries that most closely resemble socialist economies today are on top when it comes to health, happiness, QOL, education, just about everything under the sun.

[southernyankeebelle]

38. I want to know where are the protest leaders like years ago. Young need to get out there in the

streets and leaders that fight for the poor need to be out there. I don't know where they are.

[bemildred]

40. Actually, there is a long list of these things, it's not #2.

Plutocracy has never worked worth a shit but we keep trying it.