Just heard on MSNBC Obama may extend the

[doc03]

payroll tax cut. There you go I remember reading on DU that would happen. You lower the payroll taxes temporarily, now it will be permanent. It cuts SS funding giving the Republicans even more fuel to cut benefits. So now that is the norm, if you take the payroll tax cut away you are raising taxes.

[sudopod]

1. yep nt

[ljm2002]

2. Not only that...

...it makes Social Security contribute to the deficit, since the shortfall has to be made up from general funds. Thereby weakening the argument that Social Security is self-funding.

What the hell, President Obama, what the hell?????

[luvspeas]

3. So you heard something on MSNBC...

Now you're blaming Obama for something he has not done. That's just wonderful.

[CelticThunder]

5. "There is no question that he will continue to push for this." - Jay Carney, 8/1/11

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/usa-debt-payroll-idUSN1E77014520110801

That good enough for you?

[FreeStateDemocrat]

6. It's been widely reported as one of the few options the WH has, it is just about a done deal.

And Obama is de-funding Social Security, a back door approach to looting the trust fund. If Bush tried this he would have been fried but Obama gets a free pass, BS

[sad sally]

28. Along with this extension, it's not unimaginable that Senate Bill 12,

which hasn't been acted on, would be resurrected. Can you hear employers cry foul if employees are given another year of reduced SS taxes? Why should employees get another "holiday" from payroll taxes, while employers are stuck with paying 6 1/2%? They should get the 2% reduction holiday also. An action like this could bankrupt Social Security even faster.

As in so much legislation, the title makes it seem like this is a good bill. Note: This is a temporary EMPLOYER payroll tax cut (meant to compliment the EMPLOYEE holiday tax cut).

Job Creation Act of 2011 (Introduced in Senate - IS)

SEC. 101. TEMPORARY EMPLOYER PAYROLL TAX CUT

(a) In General-

(1) EMPLOYERS- Section 601(a) of the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 is amended by striking `and' at the end of paragraph (1), by striking the period at the end of paragraph (2), and by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(3) with respect to remuneration received during the payroll tax holiday period, the rate of tax under 3111(a) of such Code shall be 4.2 percent (including for purposes of determining the applicable percentage under sections 3221(a) of such Code).'.

[CleanGreenFuture]

8. How long has it been since the President's "Eat our peas" comment?

[SusanaMontana41]

36. Given the president's history of capitulations, he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

He won't get mine.

[roguevalley]

38. JEZUZ. Obama is doing this. Absorb it. President Carebear is a

Republican. First their is shock, then there is denial ...

[rhett o rick]

39. So what will your reaction after he has done it? Will you approve or disapprove? nm

[Bluerthanblue]

4. the way I understand is that the payroll tax exemption puts

cash money right back into the economy- its been shown to actually help to stimulate the economy.

"MSNBC" says he "may" extend the exemptions- there is an awful lot speculating going on without anything substantial to base it on.

[SugarShack]

7. correct but there CLEARLY is a pattern here....

[ljm2002]

12. There are other ways to put money back into the economy...

...but Obama opened the door by agreeing to the Republican idea of having a payroll tax holiday back during the negotiations for the first stimulus.

There are OTHER WAYS to put money back into the economy. A payroll tax holiday weakens the Social Security program because before that happened, Social Security had never contributed ONE THIN DIME to the deficit. Now it has. Extending the payroll tax holiday means it will contribute more to the deficit. If you can't see how that weakens the program, well then you are not paying attention.

Obama clearly buys into the theories of Friedman and the Chicago school of economics. I don't like it, and I'll continue to complain long and loud about it!

Why do people continue to try and squelch opinions by saying "Well that's just speculation"? Where do you think MSNBC gets their stories anyway? The reporters don't just decide one day to say that someone is floating an idea -- they talk to people in a position to know stuff. They hear things that are being talked about, even if those things have not yet gelled into concrete proposals. Sometimes those things are just being talked about, and sometimes they are being floated as trial balloons to measure public reaction. Regardless, it is information, and it is ridiculous to ignore it because no formal proposal has yet been made.

This is a political discussion board. Speculation based on news reports, I'd say is pretty much our bread and butter. What the hell!

[Bluerthanblue]

18. of course there are many ways to stimulate the economy-

but which ones will be able to pass the house?

As for 'people trying to squelch opinions by saying "well that's just speculation"?'- you are accusing me of trying to squelch your opinion.
I'm not doing that at all- you have every right to your opinion, just as I do mine.

When an MSMBC speculates that "the President may extend payroll tax credits, and that morphs into

"You lower the payroll taxes temporarily, now it will be permanent. It cuts SS funding giving the Republicans even more fuel to cut benefits."
I have the right to offer my OWN opinion (which is all you or the OP are doing) that the reason for doing that is to stimulate the economy-

This IS a political discussion board "what the hell"? back at you.

[ljm2002]

19. Of course you have a right to state your opinion here...

...absolutely.

But tell me, what is the purpose of this statement: "MSNBC" says he "may" extend the exemptions- there is an awful lot speculating going on without anything substantial to base it on.

The way I read it, the above statement is pooh-poohing the reporting, and by doing so, dismissing its relevance and the relevance of comments that are made about it.

Yes I'm getting carried away this morning with the "what the hell" remarks. Sorry.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. hey-

no problem.

We are all under more stress than we should be.

peace.

[doc03]

30. Instead of giving people that already have jobs a 2% pay

increase and robbing SS how about giving the money to the recipients of SS that haven't received a COLA increase in two years. We will spend the money just the same and stimulate the economy just the same as someone that has a job.

[AdHocSolver]

35. Since most of what we buy is imported, the tax cut cash will simply sail out of the U.S.

In order for the tax cut to stimulate the ** U.S.** economy, rather than the economy of China or India, it MUST circulate within the U.S. economy to pay American workers for their labor.

This is economic reality folks. Why do people ignore this simple economic FACT. Any stimulus that doesn't directly INCREASE EMPLOYMENT, for example, improving infrastructure or building new factories, will NOT stimulate the U.S. economy one bit.

The fastest, surest way to improve the U.S. economy, is for the government to stop forcing the U.S. taxpayer to subsidize the economies of China and India. This is essentially what NAFTA, the WTO, the IMF, and the World Bank, aided and abetted by the Federal Reserve, actually do.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. But we've been told repeatedly on this very forum

that SS is solvent with nearly $3 trillion tucked away in the trust fund.

I've gone so far as to point out that said trust fund has been peeled off with bonds and securities but have been dismissed for peddling RW talking. There is no crisis. All is well.

[ljm2002]

16. If the SS trust fund is insolvent...

...then the United States is bankrupt.

The trust fund has Treasury bills. Treasury bills are backed by the "full faith and credit of the United States". If these Treasure bills are not honored, then why would anyone assume other Treasury bills will be honored?

Yes, it's true that our government borrowed from the Social Security trust fund. If they can't pay it back, or should I say if WE can't pay it back, then WE ARE BANKRUPT.

Is that what you are saying?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. Well, that would leave the government in the position of

A) making good those t-bills, thus honoring its SS committments

or

B) continuing whatever program (education? defense? food stamps?) those t-bills were used to fund; although once Option A is passed over there's no way to pay for Option B

[ljm2002]

27. Oddly enough...

...there is never any question whether we have enough money to pursue endless wars, which are depleting our Treasury enormously. It's only when we get to the Social Security fund and other social spending that the question comes up.

When you get right down to it, money is a construct and its value depends on all of us agreeing to a system of managing it. The system to manage it is also a construct, and at the moment the construct is tilted such that on balance, more money continues to flow out of our pockets and into corporate coffers and the deep pockets of the already-wealthy.

It is up to us to rethink the constructs and to engineer them in a way that benefits all, not just the few. It's really that simple. There is no reason we cannot do it, other than the greed of those at the top of the heap, and the lack of imagination of our politicians or alternatively, their corruption due to the money they receive from the corporations and the wealthy. The other choice is to wait until conditions become intolerable, at which time it blows up in all our faces and then who knows how it plays out.

Added on edit:

So your position is that we're bankrupt. Because that is the only way to interpret your bottom line, "We can't pay our obligations."

[Angry Dragon]

26. [phone] 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000

[hifiguy]

9. Agree 100%

There is a word for the Current Occupant and that word is "Quisling."

[woo me with science]

10. I think the word is

"Trojan horse."

[Buns_of_Fire]

13. Yep, that was predicted here...

It was also predicted that the employer's portion might also be tossed in with the employee's "holiday" (since they're creating so many jobs and all and why should the peons get a tax break that our poor beleaguered Masters don't?).

[LiberalFighter]

14. First, the President on his own can't extend the payroll tax cut.

Second, I don't think this is the best way to put money in the pockets of consumers so they can spend it. If they really want to reach out on this they should instead reduce the federal income tax on the lowest tax bracket from 10% to between 8 and 9%. Don't bother with the other 5 tax brackets because they would still receive the same cut for income at the lowest level.

The only ones that would not receive this cut would be those that don't have taxable income. Maybe give them a one time check for about $200 or wait until they file their tax return and they receive 2% back on income earned.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. So, basically, we're going to keep doing what we've been doing

so we can continue to not create jobs. M'Kay . . . (That Roseanne presidency run is beginning to look better and better.)

[Javaman]

17. yup. just grinding the wheat into uneatable dust. nt

[bigwillq]

20. Roseanne's running for prez?

She'll get my vote! :) :bounce: Love her.

[Le Taz Hot]

29. Here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4948591

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boston bean]

22. That is why Bush sent checks. nt

[mmonk]

25. Of couse. This is vital to skew actuaries.

[kctim]

31. Yes, taking away a tax cut is raising taxes

[kentuck]

32. Obviously our President believes strongly in the magic of taxcuts.

:shrug:

[progressoid]

33. Magic taxcuts.

Magic trickle down.

Magic health insurance.

This game of D & D isn't fun anymore.

[femrap]

34. I respect him

less and less as each day passes.

He wants to f*ck up SS. He's not on my side.

[lonestarnot]

37. What the fuck is wrong with you Mr. President?

[Chimichurri]

40. How does this help folks who are out of work?

[neverforget]

41. tax cuts have worked so well so far. Just look at all the jobs that have been

created through the magic of tax cuts. If you cut taxes, does it cure cancer? :shrug: