"There are some things that just aren't meant to be changed/known"

[Silent3]

Poll question: "There are some things that just aren't meant to be changed/known"

I saw "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" yesterday. For the most part, I enjoyed the movie and would recommend it. I definitely flinched a little, however, when the tired old "some things aren't meant to be changed" scf-fi cliché was trotted out once again, and in what I considered an offensive context -- someone trying to cure his father's Alzheimer's.

That character was being incredibly reckless in his effort to cure his father -- but that's a different issue. What I find offensive is the idea that a person is "meant to" suffer from Alzheimer's, and further, that it would thus somehow be wrong to try to change what's "meant to" be by curing a terrible disease. There's also the implication that "daring" to mess with these things that aren't "meant to" be changed is a recipe for disaster, that we'll all be punished if anyone steps out of line, however that "line" happens to be defined.

Let's not forget the closely-related cliché, "There are some things that just aren't meant to be known".

It's certainly possible there is knowledge that we humans wouldn't handle very well. We've already been irresponsible with our current level of knowledge. If discoveries were made that revealed a way in which almost anyone could create powerful explosions that rival atomic weapons, or almost anyone could engineer deadly plagues, our civilization would soon thereafter be destroyed. There's no amount of "wisdom" that's going to reach enough people to save us from every last crazy person on the planet if nearly any crazy person can possess a dangerous degree of destructive power.

But what does humanity's potential recklessness have to do with what's "meant to be" or not? One could just as easily say that we're "meant to" destroy ourselves and maybe take most or all of the rest of the planet. No one has any evidence of there being any "Plan of What's Meant to Be" to begin with, much less any knowledge of what would fit that plan such a plan if it existed.

[Speck Tater]

1. One cannot say something is not meant to be known without specifying why, or by "whose" authority.

That said, there are some things that the human race, at it's present infantile stage of development would definitely be better off not knowing. You wouldn't want a three-year-old to know how to make a bomb, even if that same child may grow up to be mature enough to deal with such knowledge responsibly.

So in that sense, I believe that there are things that we, as a species, are not ready to know, not for any obscure religious reason, but simply as a matter of improving our odds of surviving as a species until such time as we are ready to deal with that knowledge responsibly.

[Silent3]

3. Oddly enough, there seem to be many people who don't question the implied authority

"It's not meant to be" and "it's raining" apparently to refer to the same "it" for these people.

Then there are a few who would tell you they're talking about God's Plan, quite confident that they know their God is there and what their God wants and doesn't want.

As for the more interesting question of what we're "ready" to know, at least the idea of readiness can be fairly easily defined: what we can know without causing a lot of harm to ourselves and the rest of the planet.

That still leaves open what to do about it, however. I don't know if there are any clear actions (or inactions?) to take to avoid stumbling into dangerous knowledge. Trying to cow scientists into not daring to ask certain questions doesn't seem like a viable approach, a message that a lot of cautionary sci-fi often tries to send, and a message that some Luddite back-to-nature enthusiasts might support.

[ixion]

4. further there is a big difference between 'knowing' and 'changing'

one is read-only, the other read-write.

For example, we 'know' about the Sun, but there isn't really much we can do to 'change' it.

[LWolf]

2. I didn't get that from the film.

I didn't get that we aren't meant to cure Alzheimer's. I got that we aren't meant to prolong life when it's done; that we should let people go when they are ready.

I don't think "what's meant to be" is the right frame for human choices. I think the right frame is that human potential can expand in any direction, whether it's good for the species and the planet, or not.

I think we are "meant" to explore our potential and to continue to evolve. Whether we evolve into self-destruction or enlightenment is both an individual and group choice every generation wrestles with.

[Silent3]

7. Most people are only "ready to go"...

...when they feel like they've suffered too much and/or their potential future seems bleak. Some people may arrive at a calm acceptance of impending death, but if you could offer those people a good cure that didn't sound like a nasty ordeal with a questionable outcome, I'm pretty sure most of them would choose more life, and any readiness to die would quickly evaporate.

In this context, who's to say "when it's done" when it comes to life? Life is done only when we run out of ways to prolong it, or run out the will to prolong it. If a person doesn't want their own life prolonged, I can respect that, but that doesn't have anything to do with what's "meant to" be or not.

[LWolf]

10. I think it's done when

the individual is done. And that should be an individual choice.

I don't mean done fighting disease or disability; I mean done with the opportunities and choices in this life.

And you are correct; that has nothing to do with "what's meant to be," as I already indicated.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

8. my question would then be, "When is life done?"

Because, 100 years ago, your life would be over A LOT sooner and for a lot of things we have 'fixed' today...

sP

[LWolf]

11. I think life is done when

the person living it wants it to be.

That has nothing to do with science or medicine, but with individual choice.

Science and medicine can extend life, and choice, and that's fine up to a point. It's also not my point.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. that's fair...

i can take that...

sP

[qb]

5. Nothing is meant to be. Things are as they are, and it is up to us to learn what we can

and do what we can to take care of our planet and its inhabitants.

[leeroysphitz]

6. There are things that we know we don't know and things the we don't know we don't know... wait.

Nevermind.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Evolution doesn't have a direction and has nothing to do with morality.

We are just as likely to become less civilized as we to become more civilized. We don't have because they are inefficient for what was available to eat. We have opposing thumbs which give us the dexterity to sign a peace treaty or pull a trigger. And, a big enough brain to decide whether to strangle someone or embrace him.

[bemildred]

13. Such statements are always self-serving or naive.

Things are going to change, and they are going to be known.