Why Are Finland’s Schools The World’s Best?

[7wo7rees]

"The secret seems to be emphasizing art, foreign languages, and physical activity, paying teachers like lawyers and doctors, and doing away with standardized testing. Too bad that the United States is trending in the opposite direction regarding all of the above. Yes, it helps that Finland is a small, wealthy country with extremely equal wealth distribution, but its neighbor Norway follows a more “American” education model and with inferior results."

<snip>

Not until sixth grade will kids have the option to sit for a district-wide exam, and then only if the classroom teacher agrees to participate. Most do, out of curiosity. Results are not publicized. Finnish educators have a hard time understanding the United States’ fascination with standardized tests. “Americans like all these bars and graphs and colored charts,” Louhivuori teased, as he rummaged through his closet looking for past years’ results. “Looks like we did better than average two years ago,” he said after he found the reports. “It’s nonsense. We know much more about the children than these tests can tell us.”

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html?c=y&page=1

Photo Unrelated

[stevedeshazer]

1. Finland has led the way in education for a long time.

+1

[msongs]

2. because it is a small country where practically everyone is the same culture and group

[DCKit]

3. You would benefit greatly by reading the entire article.

I also had some delusions about the Finns. There exist the same problems with various immigrant cultures refusing to integrate into their adopted country, the same as anywhere else.

The Finns are bending over backwards to facilitate integration, and I hope it works out for them. In too many other countries, the lack of integration - even if it's a perceived lack of integration - is causing a serious racist/nationalist backlash.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. plus equally homogeneous and nearly as small Norway, as stated

in the excerpt, uses a system more like ours and has results not nearly as good as Finland. So the argument that the difference is that Finland is a small homogeneous society is not substantiated by the data.

[Sherman A1]

4. Thanks for Posting

I too believe we rely upon standardization far too much. We seem to want our schools to turn out functional little widgets and nothing more.

[LetTimmySmoke]

5. The United States testing obsession is fucking up education.

[rucky]

6. If they don't do/disclose standardized test scores...

how do they measure the quality of Finland's education system?

Whatever the answer is to that question is what we should be doing to measure ours.

[MadHound]

7. Same way we used to measure the quality of US education

By the number of college graduates, the collective GPA, the graduation rate, the number of AP classes, etc., along with one test, maybe two, like the SAT or ACT.

[exboyfil]

8. We actually pay our teachers more than in Finland

The difference is that our other college majors earn even more than those in Finland. That in general is driven by market forces in this country. Part of the market force would be the lower numbers of degreed individuals on a percentage basis when compared with Finland (27% versus 40% in Finland).

You have to look no further than a Math teacher which recently started at our High School. He has a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering from the Naval Academy and a M.S. in Mechanical Engineering from Western Michigan. He has over ten years of industry experience. My employer in the area would hire him for $80,000 at a minimum, but he is teaching at the High School for less than $40,000. He was certified under a special program and has been teaching at a Lutheran High School before obtaining the public school position. I guess he loves it, but his family is paying a price for his commitment. His wife is a professor at our local university so it is also a lifestyle decision (convenience of schedule which matches younger childrens for example).

You argue to pay them more (let us say an additional $20,000). We have approximately 370 teachers in our school system and a population of 40,000. This works out to be $740 for a family of four. I would argue it is a good investment if I get some say on which teachers we retain. Some our worth more than $60,000 while others aren't worth a dime.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/education/16teachers.html

According to O.E.C.D. data, the average salary of a veteran elementary teacher here was $44,172 in 2008, higher than the average of $39,426 across all O.E.C.D countries (the figures were converted to compare the purchasing power of each currency).

But that salary level was 40 percent below the average salary of other American college graduates. In Finland, by comparison, the veteran teacher’s salary was 13 percent less than that of the average college graduate’s.

In an interview, Mr. Schleicher said the point was not that the United States spends too little on public education — only Luxembourg among the O.E.C.D. countries spends more per elementary student — but rather that American schools spend disproportionately on other areas, like bus transportation and sports facilities.

“You can spend a lot of money on education, but if you don’t spend it wisely, on improving the quality of instruction, you won’t get higher student outcomes,” Mr. Schleicher said.

[adhd_what_huh]

15. No we don't....your post is garbage

The pay info was in the context of status and not real income.

"Raising teachers’ status is not mainly about raising salaries, the report says, but pay is a factor."


The 44k compared to the 38k is adjusted for purchasing power for all countries and not just Finland.

Fact is, as the article states, similarly degreed people that do not teach make 40% more in America compared to only 13% more in Finland.

Who in the hell would want to be a teacher here, especially if the likes of you gets to decide their value.

[Jmaxfie1]

16. with out the meaness, hes they get paid more. n/t

[exboyfil]

17. I don't understand your animus

I do a great deal to support the teachers of my children. My wife volunteers significant time in the classroom. We give frequent gifts to teachers (food gift certificates etc). I ensure that my children are disciplined and prepared to learn in their classrooms. My daughter is sharing some of the dissection samples I got for her for her Homeschooled Biology class with her Study Hall class (she is performing the dissection after reviewing the procedures from college textbooks on the subject). I have tutored friends of my children. I think I have earned the right to say whether some teachers are doing a good job or not. I already pay a significant share of my salary in taxes to support the school district in the form of state income taxes and property taxes, and I am willing to consider spending more if necessary. As a nation we are spending over $14K/year per public school student. Obviously a lot of this money never makes it into the classroom.

I have no time or patience for teachers who are mailing it in (older daughters 7th and 8th grade English, 7th grade Social Studies, 10th grade Chemistry, and 10th grade Algebra II. This is not a matter of class discipline, style or emphasizing the wrong thing which I have issues with as well, but I defer to the judgement of the teachers or I homeschool my children in those subjects. The complaint is not having a passion for the subject which is being taught, not offering feedback, failure to lecture, etc.

Poor teachers should be encouraged to find another occupation. On the other hand those teachers who are committed should be compensated more (the purpose of my original post). Frankly I would love a European style system in which the only tests are the final Form tests which decide entrance on a competitive basis to free or greatly reduced in tuition colleges.

I personally would kill all varsity sports programs if I could wave a wand and change our school system and put that extra money into additional instruction (especially meaningful vocational training). The only sports would be power paired intramurals where everyone would be encouraged to participate.






Some additional sources comparing pay between teachers in the U.S. and Finland.


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wherewestand/reports/globalization/finland-whats-the-secret-to-its-success/206/
When asked about their ranking, Finnish educators and experts consistently cite the country’s teachers. In Finland, they say, teaching is considered one of the most highly esteemed professions – hardly a surprise, considering the fact that all of the country’s teachers must hold master’s degrees, and the profession is highly competitive. Even though the salaries of Finnish teachers are comparable to those in the U.S., a job opening in a Finnish classroom typically attracts more than 40 applicants.



http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2011/0317/Next-US-education-reform-Higher-teacher-quality
In Finland, teachers earn only about what their American counterparts do (US teacher pay starts, on average, at $39,000). The difference is that in Finland, teaching is a high-status, well-respected job, right up there with doctoring and lawyering.



I think something is wrong with this statistic, but I am including it for information purposes. U.S. number seems high

http://www.worldsalaries.org/teacher.shtml
World Salaries > International Average Salary Income Comparison > Teacher Salary
U.S. average salary PPP $ 4,055 $ 4,055 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. U.S. Department of Labor, . 5,266 dollars 23% 36.6
UK median salary PPP $ 3,075 $ 3,568 Employees, 2005. UK Employment Department, <9>, . 2,759 pounds 29% 32.5
Germany average salary PPP $ 3,065 $ 3,309 Minimum per month, 2005, normal hours of work. Federal Statistical Office of Germany, <9>, . 4,088 euros 35% 40.0
Australia average income PPP $ 2,793 $ 2,742 May 2004. Normal hours from collective agreements. Australian Bureau of Statistics, <9>, . 4,632 dollars 22% 39.1
Korea average salary PPP $ 2,643 $ 2,096 Excl. overtime and bonus, June 2005. All teachers, incl. tertiary level. Korea Ministry of Labour, <9>. 2,402,059 wons 11% 39.7
Norway average income PPP $ 2,573 $ 3,550 Employees, 2005. Statistics Norway, <9>. 34,186 kroners 33%
Japan average salary PPP $ 2,518 $ 2,961 Excl. overtime and bonus, June 2005. Women only. Private establishments with 10 or more regular employees. Japan Statistical Yearbook <17>, . 392,000 yens 17%
France median salary PPP $ 2,483 $ 1,950 All teachers at all levels. Full-time employees, 2002. Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques, <36>. 1,900 euros 0%
Canada average income PPP $ 2,238 $ 2,236 Employees, 2005. Statistics Canada, <9>, . 3,868 dollars 30% 31.1
Finland average salary PPP $ 1,936 $ 2,311 Normal hours of work, 2004. Men only. Women make 2,586 euros per month. Statistics Finland, <9>, , . 2,654 euros 32% 36.4

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_pri_tea_sal_sta-education-primary-teacher-salary-starting
Education Statistics > Primary teacher salary > Starting (most recent) by country

# 5 United States: $25,707.00
# 17 Finland: $18,110.00

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/08/teachers-paid-on-par-with-doctors/


Average salaries of public school teachers with 15 years experience, as of 2007. The salaries are in U.S. dollars and adjusted for purchase power parity. (Click on tab to go to the spreadsheet)

Upper Secondary Teachers (15 years experience)
U.S. $43,966
Finland $43,040
Primary Starting Salary (no experience)
U.S. $35,907
Finland $28,201

[adhd_what_huh]

18. Listen...the reason pay for teachers appear to be high

is because most teachers do not last 5 years. By far most teachers teach less than 15 years so the average based on 15 years does not represent that pay outlook for American teachers. In Finland I would imagine a far greater number of teachers stay more than 15 years so there the average pay for Finland is a better representation of the pay outlook for Teachers there.




Anybody who thinks teachers are paid enough needs to have their head examined.

[Reader Rabbit]

10. Because the Finns respect teachers, plain and simple.

When you respect those responsible for providing the education, then education is respected, by both society at large and the students in the classroom.

[Jmaxfie1]

12. A few things from an almost college professor.

1. If a student doesn't learn in grade school they blame the teacher, in college they blame the student.

I would never want to teach below the college level. God Bless those that do. They get blamed for everything. They have 30+ students, they are not personal tutors. Where are the parents? When I was in elementary my parents grilled me on my homework. Now here is the problem my dad had 4 years my mom 2 of college. They had the skills to help me. Its sad that many parents do not, but its not the teachers fault, they are doing the best that they can. Teacher pay is crap, people go into teaching because they want to teach students. The reason our education system sucks is because: 1. we pay teachers crap, 2. many parents don't have the academic skills to help there kids. Our education problem is a systemic problem it can not be solved by blaming teachers or the education system.

Anyway, that's why I don't want to teach grade or high school, the pay sucks and you get blamed if the kids don't succeed.

[AngryAmish]

11. Again, what is the average IQ of Finn children?

It might be higher than the worldwide average, thus making the schools appear to be the best.

(Assuming the best schools give the most education possible to children of similar IQs, wealth and intact families. If you take a kid with a 105 IQ and get them ready for university work, then that is a good job of educating. Likewise, getting less than half of 120IQ kids ready for university means you are doing poorly.)

[Jmaxfie1]

13. Probably

The northern most European societies have a very high IQ, they stress education so do many Asian socities

[sfpcjock]

14. It's all in the methodology. The other day I noticed that..

Finland or Sweden also has about half the cost per pupil as our schools do.

It's simple. We need to study their system and adapt it to our country. Education is the most important thing.