Move On pushing to punish bankers

[SavWriter]

Why is it that a Liberal Organization that helps Democrats has to issue a call to action to get a Democratic Administration to investigate and punish bankers for their greed and fraud? http://civic.moveon.org/mortgagefraud/?id=30449-6704119-fIl0Dkx&t=3

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. I wish MoveOn could be our goverment.

[treestar]

25. LOL

MoveOn for President!!!!

[mike_c]

2. excellent question....

eom

[AllyCat]

3. Signed it a petition for this yesterday.

And one from Credo just a couple minutes ago.

[woo me with science]

4. K&R nt

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Did anyone notice that the NYT article MoveOn linked to...

explained in good detail exactly WHY no criminal action is being taken?

(Petition all you want, but that's not going to get over a thousand experienced financial litigators in the Justice Department, or the budget to use them.)

[SavWriter]

9. Are you telling me

that the Treasury Department, the Fed, and the GAO can't manage to examine a corporations books and find the violations? Are you telling me that a Prosecutor, a graduate of Law School, is so dumb he couldn't understand the explanation that the Treasury Department Accountant gave him? Are you trying to tell me that the Prosecutor and the Accountant couldn't explain it to a jury?

Perhaps you're trying to tell us that a Jury wouldn't see that the banker was crooked as a twist tie on a bag of bread.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Yeah. You may have missed it, but the only two prosecutions so far, both with...

slam-dunk evidence, ended up as acquittals.

The last occupant of the White House left the AG with less than 150 qualified prosecutors who not only have to understand the cases but face hundreds of the top law firms in the country and eventually, after years of filing thousands various motions and briefs, convince a jury that a crime was committed. And then argue the appeals.

It's just not that easy, but continue on if you believe it is.

[banned from Kos]

13. Exactly - this is a non-issue in real life.

What was the crime? "Greed" as Moveon says?

There are 4000 banks and untold mortgage originators. Do you dragnet 50,000 bankers? The worst, Angelo Mozilo, paid a piddly fine and only for insider trading.

Was an Option ARM illegal? (the worst type of subprime loan). Fannie Mae accepted Option ARMs finally in 2005 (after much hesitation). Are HELOCs illegal?

Why doesn't Moveon find some wronged homeowners and begin a suit themselves? They have deep pockets.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. There was no way to prove Mozilo knew about, or approved, any fraud...

if the whole system wasn't taken down, the worst he would have been deemed guilty of was a bad business decision or two.

Same with that AIG bastard who helped take the system down. He was based in London, for one thing, and ran an independent AIG operation, so it's a real stretch to extend US authority over there. What he did was incredibly greed-driven and stupid, but exceeding your underwriting authority and reinsuring yourself is not illegal, last I heard. Nor is management letting it happen. The Brits are quite sophisticated in insurance and financial regulation, having been doing it since at least 100 years before we were a country, but they saw no reason for criminal action.

I don't know if they still have it on the books, but at one time Switzerland made it a criminal offense to let your bank fail. Yeah, if you ran a bank and it went under, you went to jail. No excuses-- you just do time. Only once that I know of did they actually put a bank prez in stir, and it was when (IIRC)some Boston bank bought First Bank of Basel and it went under because an asshole trader went over his head in cocoa futures. Boston bank bailed and let Basel hang, much to the chagrin of Basel bosses. The Swiss law said the boss cannot let asshole traders take down the bank, so at least one went directly to jail and did not pass Go.

What if we had such a law here?

[banned from Kos]

20. Agree - a rational person looking back would conclude that the

bankers and borrowers were legally complicit in the mortgage meltdown.

Mortgage company offers you 120% LTV mortgage with $0 down? (BAD!) Borrower who fudges on docs accepts? (BAD!) Fly-by-Night mortgage company sells loan to Lehman? (BAD!) Lehman packages shit loans and S&P slaps AAA on 10,000 more like it? (BAD!).

Canada's regs prevented this - ours did not.

[girl gone mad]

22. That's not correct.

Mozilo was on the record calling these products defective at the same time that he was telling investors they were fail safe. Prosecutors refused to bring charges because they believed the case would be too large, involving too many people.

[girl gone mad]

21. Why do you keep repeating this lie?

Criminal charges were not brought against Mozilo.

[girl gone mad]

27. Gretchen Morgenson and Louise Story laid out in detail why criminal action has not been pursued.

These journalists uncovered systematic failure on the part the regulators and prosecutors, along with faulty decisions by the political leadership.

The DOJ, SEC, OTS, Treasury, FBI all repeatedly fumbled. In some cases it was a matter of incompetence, but in many, the failure and missteps were by design.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all

But several years after the financial crisis, which was caused in large part by reckless lending and excessive risk taking by major financial institutions, no senior executives have been charged or imprisoned, and a collective government effort has not emerged. This stands in stark contrast to the failure of many savings and loan institutions in the late 1980s. In the wake of that debacle, special government task forces referred 1,100 cases to prosecutors, resulting in more than 800 bank officials going to jail. Among the best-known: Charles H. Keating Jr., of Lincoln Savings and Loan in Arizona, and David Paul, of Centrust Bank in Florida.

Former prosecutors, lawyers, bankers and mortgage employees say that investigators and regulators ignored past lessons about how to crack financial fraud.

As the crisis was starting to deepen in the spring of 2008, the Federal Bureau of Investigation scaled back a plan to assign more field agents to investigate mortgage fraud. That summer, the Justice Department also rejected calls to create a task force devoted to mortgage-related investigations, leaving these complex cases understaffed and poorly funded, and only much later established a more general financial crimes task force.

Leading up to the financial crisis, many officials said in interviews, regulators failed in their crucial duty to compile the information that traditionally has helped build criminal cases. In effect, the same dynamic that helped enable the crisis — weak regulation — also made it harder to pursue fraud in its aftermath.

A more aggressive mind-set could have spurred far more prosecutions this time, officials involved in the S.&L. cleanup said.

[bvar22]

6. President Obama could become a National HERO overnight, IF...

..he would take an unequivocal STAND with the American People on this issue.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Nye Bevan]

7. What *precisely* would you like Obama to do?

Tell the US attorney for the Southern district of Manhattan to prosecute a bunch of Wall Streeters? Bear in mind that this is not Russia, and the judiciary is kind of supposed to be independent of the executive branch.

[bvar22]

12. Easy!

Call a Prime Time Press Conference.
Stand in front of the cameras,
and as briefly and as directly as possible say,

"It has become painfully obvious that Serious Crimes
have been committed by high officials of our largest banks and Investment Institutions
that have harmed every American citizen.

These criminals, motivated by GREED, have damaged our Economy,
and harmed our reputation for Full Faith and Credit.

I am directing the Attorney General and the Justice Department
to investigate and prosecute these criminals to the fullest extent of the LAW,
and to enforce restitution wherever possible.

In order to repair the reputation of the United States, I will make sure that adequate funds are available,
and that these prosecutions WILL be a priority of this administration.

I will report to the American people every month on the progress of these investigation and prosecutions,
and WILL NOT REST until Justice for the American People has been attained.

I consider this a matter of National Security,
and believe that Public Examples must be made of these criminals
in order to restore our reputation.

Thank You."

National-Fucking-HERO overnight


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[banned from Kos]

14. So he should disregard Due Process?

No thanks.

[bvar22]

15. So he should disregard Due Process? LOL. NO!

...and NO WHERE in my post did I suggest that.

He should "expedite" Due Process,
as far up their ass as he can push it.


There is NOTHING illegal or unconstitutional about making JUSTICE a priority.

[banned from Kos]

18. your first sentence is a conviction without a trial

read it again!

"Serious crimes have been committed by ...........". You can't have the #1 LEO in the country say that.

[bvar22]

23. Sure you can.

When a body is laying in the street with a bullet hole in its head,
it is perfectly reasonable for ANYBODY to say,
"A CRIME has been committed here,
and it is our duty to find and prosecute the criminals."

Boy, I hope YOU are the lawyer defending the banksters.
THAT would be fun,
but admittedly would deprive the criminal bankers of their right to
a competent defense.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Romulox]

17. You have ZERO idea what "due process" means. nt

[Nye Bevan]

24. The President stating that someone is a criminal before the trial has occurred?

The case would be thrown out of court due to prejudicing the jury.

[bvar22]

28. He doesn't need to ID a particular person,

only state the CRIMES have been committed,
and the Justice Department will pursue the criminals.
The Jury will decide whether which particular individual is guilty or not.

There is NOTHING prejudicial about a Passive Voice acknowledgment that crimes have been committed.
No individual has been labeled a "criminal".

[Romulox]

16. The Attorney General serves at the pleasure of the President.

Hope this helps! :hi:

[Amonester]

8. Make him (and-Congress...) do it

Spread http://www.october2011.org around. Organize co-occupations in each State's Capital... etc.

Make it grow wide. On DU only is not wide enough, but also worth it.

Activist HQ posts: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=106

[Gin]

11. Yes...prosecute them....if we can't convict them...make them spend money

for attorneys until they are broke...THIS...is the issue that is seething in many Americans...they robbed us blind and got away with it....

can't tell me there are no people who could figure out what they did....that is just another cop out to not prosecute.

[treestar]

26. Are they against settlements on all cases?

If this case can't be settled, why should any case ever be settled?

It is not as simple to prove things in court as it looks. Often a settlement is worth it - for both sides.