Black Bloc tactics, whatever their source,

[MineralMan]

will not aid the Occupy cause in any way. It will be seen by most people as part of the Occupy movement, whether it is or not.

I have no idea who the people are who are using these tactics, but if they're not prevented from it, they will become the public face of Occupy in the media, and it will not work to anyone's benefit who wants to see reform.

Anarchists? Infiltrators? I don't know, but it's not a good thing, overall.

[Arctic Dave]

1. Question. Why does everyone call them the "black bloc"?

Who gave them this name?

[Uncle Joe]

2. Here you go and I agree with the OP re: the overall uselessness of this tactic.

it plays directly into the hands of those the black bloc protesters claim to be protesting against by giving their supposed opposition major propaganda material, this is assuming the black blocers aren't police plants put there to instigate violence.

The best approach is to remain peaceful, passive resistance will carry much more power in the eyes of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

A black bloc is a tactic for protests and marches, whereby individuals wear black clothing, scarves, ski masks, motorcycle helmets with padding or other face-concealing items and often carry some sort of shields and truncheons.<1><2> The clothing is used to avoid being identified, and to, theoretically, appear as one large mass, promoting solidarity.

The tactic was developed in the 1980s by autonomists protesting squatter evictions, nuclear power and restrictions on abortion among other things.<1> Black blocs gained broader media attention outside Europe during the 1999 anti-WTO demonstrations, when a black bloc damaged property of GAP, Starbucks, Old Navy, and other multinational retail locations in downtown Seattle.<1>

"The Black Bloc" is sometimes incorrectly reported as being the name of a specific anarchist group. It is, rather, a tactic that may be adopted by groups of various motivations and methods.<3>

Tactics of a black bloc can include vandalism, rioting and street fighting, demonstrating without a permit, misleading the authorities, assisting in the escape of people arrested by the police, administering first aid to persons affected by tear gas in areas where protesters are barred from entering, building barricades, and resisting the police.<4> Property destruction carried out by black blocs tends to have symbolic significance: common targets include banks, institutional buildings, outlets for multinational corporations, gasoline stations, and video-surveillance cameras.

[leveymg]

5. "administering first aid to persons affected by tear gas in areas where protesters are barred" . .

That's a "black bloc" tactic? Sounds more like Mediciens Sans Frontiers. :wow:

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Get em on your side

Them are not neutral.

[leveymg]

11. Who put those rules together - Anastasio Somoza?

No wonder the thugs usually lose. Who wants to defend a regime where even their boss says about them, "He may be a SOB, but he's our SOB."

So long as the state keeps its monopoly of violence, we win.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Much older than Somoza

Oh much older. In the us we used to have this happen regularly in the 1880 s.

This is really old playbook.

[leveymg]

48. Yup. Haymarket bomb. Pinkerton's were pioneers in that sorta false-flag provocation.

It was really the Russian Czar's Imperial Secret Police, the Okhrana, who were the established masters of it, however. And, even they learned a lot from the Prussian Police. See, The History of Political Dirty-Tricks, http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0612/S00032.htm

[louslobbs]

42. +1

Lou

[Uncle Joe]

9. I actually don't have a problem with that part so much as

just the just bolded part "vandalism, rioting and street fighting."

[EFerrari]

12. Anon Medics was arrested last night and is in Santa Rita right now. nt

[leveymg]

16. Like red crosses/crescents on tops of trucks. Easy targets for thugs.

I do wish that there were honest work available for everyone. We could fire so many policemen and soldiers.

[EFerrari]

17. What I want to know is how the Concord police knew that there would be

street violence at midnight in time to make that forty minute drive and be there for the deployment.

lol

It was another round of up Bay Area cops last night. There was even a cop from Belmont there. I guess the other one had to stay home and monitor the paper deliveries. :)

The live stream from Oakland was classic and should be put out on DVD.

[Luminous Animal]

25. Indeed, it is interesting.

[EFerrari]

29. Were you able to catch Spencer's live stream last night?

[Luminous Animal]

36. I watched it until I fell asleep in front of the computer at 2:00 AM!

Work has been a bit of a struggle today!

[EFerrari]

44. I might as well have gotten drunk with those folks

because I have the hangover. lol

[Luminous Animal]

46. Yep!

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Tell me 'bout it

They are like bullet attractants or 'thing. And you still need to remain neutral.

[Eric J in MN]

3. TIME article

"...the masked gang, estimated to number fewer than 100, faced off against police with rocks and bottles. Some 60 arrests were made by the time the melee was subdued at around 3 a.m."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2098628,00.html#ixzz1cg7UNKxx

We'll see if 60 people are prosecuted for a masked violent attack.

[EFerrari]

4. Also arrested: several reporters and legal observers

some still in custody right now at Santa Rita.

[dtexdem]

7. They're likely not meant to aid it, rather to destroy it.

There IS a small chance that it is a bunch of loonies; but it's far more likely that it's a case of agents provocateurs.

[girl gone mad]

8. I don't see why people get so upset over a couple of broken windows.

This damage is easily repaired.

It seems to me like you are just looking for an easy hook to distract attention from the real criminals who actually have done serious and irreparable damage to our economy and our democracy.

[EFerrari]

13. They sacked the treasury and all I got was this lousy broken window.

Because you know, there was no vandalism in Oakland before the occupation.

[leveymg]

14. So, if it doesn't hurt the target, and it does distract attention, what's the point?

In wars, you don't drop 500 pound bombs to break windows. If you're not to that point, don't do it. It looks bad on television.

[inna]

40. ding! ding! winner!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2235238&mesg_id=2237591


The BB kids (no to mentio, such concept as militant resistance) are so easy to scapegoat/demonize; no wonder they are the favorite infiltration target.

[RufusTFirefly]

10. So far, OWS has done a great job of distancing itself from this stuff

Such as the ranting anti-Semitic dude that was used unsuccessfully to paint the entire movement as bigoted.

The blessing of the public space is also its curse. Anyone can go there. OWS can't really keep anyone out. To do so would be to adopt the very tactics they're decrying.

Luckily, this group is really wise and creative.

Even so, they're up against the corporate media, which will keep using their gigantic megaphone to try to discredit OWS somehow.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Is some eyes only

[Taverner]

15. I sense they are agent provocateurs

May not even be cops...

[leveymg]

18. You mean like this little Right-wing runt (and his beefy pal)?

[Taverner]

21. Is that O'Keefe?

[leveymg]

49. O'Keefe wannabe named Patrick Howley, a Jr. Editor at Amer. Spectator rag

got a bunch of anti-war folks maced at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum about a month ago by starting ruckus with some of the gate guards. A mere footnote, really, but of the provocateur type.

[EFerrari]

20. Two undercover cops were caught on video posing as protesters

and later in uniform. I believe the video is in our video forum. All kinds of games going on.

[Norrin Radd]

22. Yep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV6DyQKe4cg

[Zorra]

19. I agree. But how do we stop them? They're not part of OWS,

and we can't legally restrain or detain them.

The police need to clearly identify them, prosecute them, put them in jail. and try to discover who the leaders of the group are, and who hired them.

Whether the police and prosecutors and judges will do this remains to be seen, but the action or non-action by the legal system in these cases will be telling.

Whatever their motives, they have nothing to do with OWS whatsoever except to cause harm to the movement.

I firmly believe that in most cases, causing harm to the movement is their motive, because that is primarily the only thing that their actions accomplish.

[Luminous Animal]

23. And just how do you propose preventing them from it?

From my experience, they go unmolested by the police. I've personally begged police to arrest destructive Black Bloc members who are destroying things in front of their faces to no avail.

I believe that the powers that be allow the Black Bloc kids to rampage unimpeded in order to put a violent media face on any and all peaceful movements.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Ding,ding,ding

Internal security will have to take care of it by scaring them away.

[moondust]

33. "Internal security"

Mace?

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. No, there are other ways to do this

Study the 1960s and your tactics are there.

What was old is new.

[Luminous Animal]

35. The problem is, some of their activity yesterday was some distance away from OWS

actions. An org cannot self-police if they are not witnesses to what is going on.

In another report, attempts to stop Black Bloc activity was met with Black Bloc intimidation. Remember, Black Bloc members carry weapons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. One of those was stopped by tactical formation by vets

And why do you think it happened where it happened? Suffice it to say...only five bidnesses, they were stopped.

[Luminous Animal]

38. I don't understand your question but the Whole Foods attack was a mile away

from ANY OWS actions. There is no way that OWS members could have known or stopped them. In fact, nobody stopped them at Whole Foods.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Not at whole foods but per twitter shit heads were stopped

By vets at one of the banks. But you answered your question, whole foods was far enough were a timely response was not possible, and cops would never touch them.

[EFerrari]

31. Maybe they don't want to arrest each other.

[sabrina 1]

24. It is not seen as part of this movement except by

those who would like to make that connection.

Fortunately, the Corporate Media doesn't have the kind of influence it used to have.

Unrec'd for giving credibility to something a majority of people know to be false.

[gratuitous]

27. Spongebob Squarepants reruns, whenever they air . . .

will not aid the Occupy cause in any way. They will be seen by most people as part of the Occupy movement, whether they are or not.

Wait. What?

[EFerrari]

30. I think the other 34, 982 people who were out yesterday deserve equal time.

lol

[louslobbs]

41. I agree MineralMan, thanks for sharing the comment K&R n/t

Lou

[Number23]

45. The group of vets that just marched would agree with you

"When one Navy veteran addressed Zuccotti Park he put it very simply: "If you continue to assemble in peace and solidarity, justice will come to pass. We are the 99%."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-march-for-occupy-wall-street-2010-11##ixzz1cgb5zKnN

[BeFree]

47. Yep

The cops and teabggers infiltrating the movement in a sorry Hitler like attempt to make us look bad will be followed closely by the Wall Street media moguls, but in the end they will fail miserably.

My advice is to ignore the WSmedia which has a stake in beating down the people and stealing our money. Just ignore them. You'll do fine then.

[MineralMan]

51. I have no trouble ignoring the media when it gets things wrong.

However, I'm not the one who I'm talking about. For a lot of people, taking a nuanced view of what is reported isn't happening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. OWS and cops agree, these anarchists are not part of this

I don't know if you get how important that is...

I know rethorical question.