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Well, Diane Sawyer informed us that people are getting sick of the Occupy movement

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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:13 PM
Original message
Well, Diane Sawyer informed us that people are getting sick of the Occupy movement
and proceeded to show a story this evening with one woman yelling at occupiers telling them to go home. She was tired of the mess, the graffiti, and broken windows. Diane's question after the story to the reporter covering it was to ask if the movement is in danger of snuffing itself out.

Would lay odds that tomorrow the media will be running with this notion.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well I'm sick of Diane Sawyer and the corporate toady media.
:puke:
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. excellent !
:thumbsup: +100
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
123. We can't expect violence, graffiti, etc. -- to win the hearts and minds of the public
The OWS movement is in danger of losing public support EASILY if this behavior continues. We already know that there are provocateurs and infiltrators trying to destroy the passive, non-violent image of OWS. Organizers MUST find a way to identify and expose these people.

And most of all -- they must promote themselves as non-violent.

I cannot sympathize with those who break windows, destroy property, and deface buildings. Anybody should be able to see that this is the kind of behavior that is not worth of admiration.

There was nothing more moving than the black freedom=-riders in the sixties who stood up against violence and hatred with great calm and non-violence. It was incredibly inspiring.

That value system must be instilled in every protester.

Sorry for sneaking in line here :dilemma: -- but this had to be said and read!
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #123
139. Who keeps have you seen advocating violence? OWS should shame and shun the infiltrators. When they
see anyone doing violence or damage they should clear n area at least 20 feet from that person and point at them so the police can deal with them.
The police might be reluctant to arrest their own.
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
124. I totally agree
I cannot stand her.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
130. that's my response
i'm tired of diane sawyer corporate media tool.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
142. Ya mean this Diane Sawyer?


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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. That's the one!
:puke:
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh well, protests aren't meant to be convenient. But they are protected by the 1st amendment.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Uhhh Diane, OWS is so much bigger than you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I thought that she was on her honeymoon with Andy Rooney
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Sportsguy Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. ROTFLMAO!
:rofl:
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Mendocino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
83. Only after her fling
with Ronald Reagan and that "experimental" thing with Ayn Rand.

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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
92. Isn't that a little harsh?
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
111. Could we object to her
assertions without the sexism and ageism? Thanks.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #111
117. Thank you n/t




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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
112. The world revolves around Diane Sawyer and her little news show.
I thought everyone go that memo. :sarcasm:
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. The media are a dinosaur whose head has been removed: stumbling around,
still imagining itself to be alive and powerful.

Goodbye, MSM. And Good Riddance. Rest in pieces, moneypuppets.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Why, just last night . . .
Two or three people at the cocktail party Diane was at had just had it up to here (my finger is resting on my chin, just below my mouth) with all these dreary people in the streets! It just isn't done, you know. I'm so glad Diane is here to explain the proper behavior expected out of the proles.

Thank you so much, Ms. Sawyer.
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Mendocino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
69. "I mean reaaalllyyy,
these damn Hoi Poloi, just whhaaat dooo they waaannnt?.... Say boy, get me another drinky-poo!"
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Fawke Em Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #69
106. There is no "boy." He's out in Freedom Square with #OWS.
:)
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Interestingly, there was a tiny group of epople yetserday smashing wondows. then a series of article
articles like the one you describe. Surely this was on purpose. Out of 10,000 people in Oakland., maybe 4 or 5 behaved badly. 4 or 5 who were not necessarily part of OWS at all.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. If you checked their cell phones, would they have Breitbart's number?
Or O'Keefe's?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. 10.000 you'd prefer 30-40 k per bbc
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. 30,000 people? WOW.I was at occupy LA, where the number was estimated at 6-10,000
in Oakland.
(not even 1000 here in LA, but we did march!)
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
126. Yep. Can you say "agents provocateurs"? I knew you could.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:17 PM
Original message
The AIDS camp in front of the UN building in San Francisco lasted for 10 years.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Fudk You Dianne Sawyer
We're occupying the world
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Diane Sawyer is bored with the movement...
Therefore we all must be, right?

Remember with the media, they must change up the storyline to keep viewer interest. The American press is mostly not about news, it's about selling entertainment.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. The american press is TOTALLY not about news...
... and it hasn't been for decades.

I move to the USA in the early 80 and I wondered how anyone lived without ANY news. Luckily there were books and magazines until the intertubes opened up.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. She probably needs to have a movement. nt
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
54. LOL! That's an instant classic! - n/t
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
125. I've got one I could put on her desk.
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Laluchacontinua Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. it can't be about selling entertainment because it's so mind-numbingly boring & stupid.
i think it's more about telling people what to think and within what box to confine one's thoughts to. no different than pravda.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. Actually, it's about selling advertisements and commercials, speaking
literally. Remember that above all else: the MSM exist to sell advertising. Take away the ad $$, and MSM goes extinct.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
128. And it's about selling entertainment so it can sell ads.
The "news" has little to do with it anymore.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sure
why not? Look at how many got sick of the Bush Administration. But sick or not, the OWS has a 4 fold higher popularity rating than the repub controlled congress.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Power concedes...nothing.
Next line...dirty hippies are commies.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. trying to plant seeds of discontent - good luck with that, diane
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. They were tired of the antiwar movement during Vietnam, too.
But persistance paid off. More and more came on board and it finally succeeded. If the protesters become looters they will lose, if they form a coherent message that is accepted by many they will succeed.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Bingo! n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. She's just terrified her taxes on that big fat paycheck will go up
She's being paid just enough that she'll never twig to the fact that she's also part of the 99%.

This might play well in East Buttcrack Nebraska but the rest of us aren't buying a word of it, Diane.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
114. That's what all those overpaid news readers care about most. Themselves.
And the huge inflated salaries they aren't worth.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Does anyone still watch the Corporate Media, who are after all,
are part of the problems which created this movement?

She's trying to protect her Corporate Bosses.

Money in Politics.

Money in control of the media.

She just proved the point being made by OWS who have their own media, anticipating this kind of propaganda from the Corporate Media.

They thought they still had the power to stop a movement like this as they have in the past. Instead, when they stayed away, the movement grew like wildfire. When they realized that without them, over 80% of the population knew about OWS anyhow, they decided to try to undermine it instead. She has revealed herself as part of the problem. A poster girl for all that is wrong with this country's media.

But no matter what they do, they will not address the issues, pretending instead not to know why people are Ocuppying Wall Stree and not Elm Street eg.

So disgusting to see them now that they have been fully exposed. At least in the past we thought they just might not be informed, now the people of America know that that is not the case.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. DS is a 1%er
Haven't logged in for awhile, but have been reading.

The Occupy movement is what we have been waiting for and our opposition is great. But from what I have been hearing from the common Dems and independents is nearly all favorable and that a real desire for democracy is being fulfilled.

And when I see the pics of the people in the streets, it warms me cockles.

And seeing all your great postings, Sabrina, is also warming. Thanks.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. You were missed BeFree!
:-)

I agree, this is a worldwide movement by the people of the world against the heartless machine that has been ravaging countries for a few decades now. It is probably a very historical period we are living in.

As for Sawyer, didn't she work for Republicans at one time?

She is part of the 1% so what else could we expect from her?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. It is historical
As an old activist who has been around the block and having never seen the likes of this, but having hoped and dreamed of it happening and now it blooms as bright as a summer flower, I know that this time will be known as the turning point from which our better future was sprung.

As for the Old DS, she is a dinosaur whose extinction from reading the news is nigh. She should be wetting her britches over this -- our occupation and taking back of our government -- as surely scares her and her cabal.

Their days are numbered.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. We can have a world organized to meet people's needs, not
satisfy some people's greed. We simply must put our minds to it and open our hearts to it.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. In other words, DS reinforced the ongoing slide into irrelevancy that defines the Corporate Media?
Cool.

NGU.

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Oh they all ready are running with this meme!
Tonight, on the radio--I heard a report about OWS. The meme was--people are tired of this and want it to end.

They interviewed a woman in lower Manhattan who said that all of the food carts that were once on the NYC streets,
are now gone. "What about those jobs?" she asked. "Maybe these protesters should have thought about all of
the jobs that they've lost, as a result of their protest..."

Really sad.

Then, there was a mention of a New York Post editorial that calls for OWS to quit.

Here we go. This is the new meme. People are tired of it. It's causing job losses (nuts, I know) and
it's time for it to end.

They've tried to demonize OWS, Glenn Beck as insisted that the movement is anti-Semitic. Their "dirty hippie" meme
didn't work.

So now, they're using the voices of Americans--who probably never believed in the movement anyway--to tell us to leave.

That way--it gives the appearance that "the people" are tired of it.

It's all a lie. It's all part of the one-percent and their PR machines.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. The New York Post? That's a Murdoch vehicle, i.e., a toady for
the 1%.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. Diane who?
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. No shit. A name I haven't heard for probably 2 decades.
Is she with Rupert these days? Any idea? Can't even remember where she was when last I heard her name.
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not to worry. Jon Stewart will be along any moment to play all the clips of various msm types
saying for weeks now how this doesn't amount to much and how it won't last.


And then showing how much it's amounted to and how long it's lasted.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. What has he said about OWS?
Haven't tuned in...
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Please retire Diane...........please. n/t
Lou
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. First Amendment
"...or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In no way, shape, or form did the Nov 2 events in Oakland meet the definition of peaceable assembly.

The bulk of the 99 understand this. The movement better understand it as well, or become a footnote in history.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Please don't buy into MSM!!!
There was a bad bunch in the group. Some refer to them as the Black Bloc. Needless-to-say ... they are agent provocateurs. OWS and Occupy Oakland DO NOT and WILL NOT condone violence of any nature; they are purely a peaceful movement up against the 1%.

And can you hear/feel/see it?? The 99% are being heard and the 1% are showing their intimidation.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Peaceful movement
Shutting down a port by occupation is many things, but it is not "peaceful." Any attempt to spin it any other way notwithstanding.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You did not learn history did you
Look up definition of GENERAL STRIKE.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I know it very well
So, you're saying Occupy Oakland has moved beyond peaceable assembly...to petition the government for redress of grievances?

What's next?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. So you are saying strikes should inconvenience none?
By the way you do realize the founders would be laughing at you right at the momemt?
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Well, that's unknowable, isn't it?
Answer me this.

A group of pro-lifers is exercising their 1A rights by marching for their cause (with all due permits).

They decide to make their point by occupying the premises of abortion clinics, effectively shutting them down. Within their rights?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. They have done that, a few times
They have also killed doctors and used bombs. Tell me when did that happen? Oh wait it did not.




As to the founders, no it's not. You can start by reading.


So to the original question your contention is that a strike should inconvenience none. You should thank those who inconvenienced many for your 40 hour week, a weekend and a minimum wage. We are bout where we left off. Living wages shoud be next in the agenda, and getting rid f righ to work legislation.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. You didn't answer the question
Would shutting down the abortion clinics by occupation be legitimate under the 1A rights of the protesters?

Are you insane? Of course bombing and assassination are not legitimate forms of protest.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. They have done that
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 09:39 PM by nadinbrzezinski
It's even gone to courts...I also pointed out where they've gone.

I think your problem is with a general strike. Get used to them, they are back.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Then say the words
"Pro-lifers have the right to shut down abortion clinics by occupation as part of 1A protection."

Say it.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. I'll give you my answer
Pro-lifers DO NOT have the right to shut down abortion clinics by occupation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. The USSC has given them the right to occupy parking lots
Where they have effectively done that

Now general strike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_strike
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Cite the case, please n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #86
94. Scenk v pro choice.
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 10:53 PM by nadinbrzezinski
It was brought, argued under rico...

No I did not imagine it, sorry.

Oh and have a wonderful life.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Huh?
The case you cited upheld the constitutionality of buffer zones.

Here's a more recent case:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/high-court-stays-out-of-mass-abortion-clinic-case-44419/

In light of the above, how would a shut-down by occupation be allowed under 1A protection?

Say the words.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. So, say the words n/t
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #75
118. You're comparing a religion issue


to a labor issue.

The issue of when life begins is a religious one. The right to a safe, private abortion has been established by the Supreme Court. Any further argument is to be taken up there.

The issue of pay, benefits, working conditions, etc., are to be negotiated by the employees and hiring parties. If you conduct business poorly, treat laborer and consumer like crap, there is no guarantee that you get to keep making money. There is no slave labor here - if people don't want to work, that is their right. If they want to hang out peaceably in the public space in front of your business, that is their right.

If it costs you money, tough shit.

How many of the people whining about "lost business" give a shit about the massive amounts of money it costs the protesters and everyone else to get an education, meet their health care needs, keep their homes, pay their bills, feed their families, retire without starving?

When one in seven is on food stamps, I would wager, the people complaining about "losing money" don't care one little BIT about the money the 99% have lost.

They can go pound salt.






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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
132. That's not a strike though. n/t
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #73
98. " Get used to them, they are back"
Will they be as much of a cluster fuck as Oakland 11/2/11?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate the success of Oakland's "General Strike?"

What percent of the almost 400,000 residents participated in the strike by voluntarily staying off work?

What percent of the economic activity of the city was disrupted?

I'm wondering if YOU know the history of general strikes.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. When did I say...
...a strike should inconvenience no one? Oh, wait. I did not.

What I did do is make a distinction between a disruption caused by an internal strike and that caused by external forces.

An assembly plant goes on strike. The plant is shut down. The workers march to the local Wal-Mart and shut it down by occupation. Legitimate? (The Wal-Mart workers do not participate)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Start the process of education
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:57 AM
Original message
It's an uphill battle...
You will likely not get an honest answer to your question.

People will cite various instances where this or that has happened, but they will NOT go so far as to admit that something they don't personally agree with is NOT OK.


If their group is shutting down the city, hey...it's GREAT!!!


If it's the other guys shutting down the city...oh...very BAD!!!


Double standards and hypocrisy suck.



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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #66
113. Bad analogy. Disrupting business versus disrupting receipt of health care.
Try comparing like to like rather than using political hot points.

Would the women-are-all-filthy-whores movement (aka "pro-life") protesters occupying a women's health clinic be protected by the first amendment? Probably not. They're disrupting the receipt of health care. Just as if they were to occupy a medical clinic providing any other form of health care. Then there are the HIPAA laws that I'm sure would have influence in those situations. Though in today's political climate in which health care is considered just another business, who really knows?




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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. As I've said before
There is a difference between a facility being shut down due to the strike of its own workers, and being shut down by the actions of others.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Re-read meaning of general strike.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Jesus H. Christ
I know the meaning of general strike. You really are condescending.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Educate yourself
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. You're avoiding the central point
I'm making. Why?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. You are
Bye buy.


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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. "you don't impress me much" n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Free clue ain't here to impress you
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 10:40 PM by nadinbrzezinski
You are another random poster on the inter-webs pushing a RW meme.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. I am?
How many workers have you negotiated contracts for?

30+ year union member

Elected union officer

Executive committee member multiple times

Headed negotiations committee multiple times

Negotiated at the table multiple times

Recognized by local union for improvements in negotiations process
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. And... You need to read on the history of labor.
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 10:55 PM by nadinbrzezinski
The tp you are using has been used by bosses for many years. Well, not recently, we didn't have that issue for 66 years. It is a RW talking point.
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joeglow3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #80
107. You still did not answer the valid question
If we are to accept the position that people have the right to shut down an employer (one they don't work for) through physical means as protected first amendment rights, we need to support the same actions from those we oppose just as vehemently. The second we support or allow one person or group from having their rights trampled, we have just opened ourselves up to the same restrictions.

Our state passed a law forcing the pieces of shit from Kansas to protest a decent distance from churchs during funerals. The courts, rightly so, held the law unconsitutional. As much as I am disgusted by their message, I will not oppose their right to shout it. The second I do, I open up the possibility of those who oppose my views shutting me down.

Thus, if you support shutting down an employer (again, none of us work for them) through forceful means as protected first amendment speech, then you had better expect every abortion clinic in the country to be shut down by the religious loons. And I hope you would have the rocks to stand up for your support in the first amendment and support their rights to do so.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. Thank you...First Amendment rights
are not just for the people we agree with.

I can't tell you how disgusted I am with people who think they have a right to tell businesses what channels are appropriate to be showing on their own TVs.

And they don't have a right to try and shut down (or shut up) the Conservative talking heads, no matter how offensive they are.


If people think they're going to be subjected to the horrors of Fox News while they get their car fixed or something, they should bring a book or MP3 player, FGS, instead of trying to censor others.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #109
136. That's not censorship
The store still has the right to blare Faux Noise. If enough people complain, they may stop, because they don't want to alienate customers.

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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #107
115. I don't think the first amendment protects disruption of receipt of health care.
As I pointed out to the poster above, try comparing like to like.

Those idiots from Kansas are a closer fit to the analogy. Women's health clinics, not so much. HIPAA and health care laws may have influence with regards to shutting down health clinics.

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joeglow3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. Who decides the exceptions?
What if I need to get the cash from my bank to pay for services at a planned parenthood clinic? By allowing people to forcibly block customers from a bank (as first amendment speech), are you not impeding my right to health care by preventing me from getting the cash needed.

That is the challenge with the first amendment. When you start to find excuses to separate application of our rights, you open up the door for someone else to come up with their reason why it is okay to infringe on your rights.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #107
133. You are making a false assumption
That the port was shut down by outsiders. It was shut down by it's own workers joining the general strike.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:35 AM
Original message
You have just been a witness to the responses given to many who are not
that poster's sycophants.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #78
101. dupe, delete
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 03:35 AM by Obamanaut
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #68
134. The port was shut down due to the strike of it's own workers.
A majority of the port workers joined the general strike, resulting in the port being shut down.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
131. You're saying that. Why is a general strike not peaceable to you? n/t
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #131
144. Not what I said...
...although I can understand why my comments could be construed that way. Look closer.

My concept of a general strike is that--using a city as an example--enough workers in enough workplaces go on strike to cause widespread shutdown of economic activity. Production, transportation, public and private services of all kinds are seriously curtained or stopped. That's peaceful because the shutdown was accomplished by a simple, non-violent act: withholding one's labor.

Suppose you work in a corporate office building next to an auto plant. For whatever reason, the autoworkers go on strike and shut the plant down. Suppose someone riles the workers up about the evils of the corporation for which you work. They decide to shut your workplace down by occupying the facility such that it's impossible for normal operations. The details are unimportant. Maybe they block the entrances, fill the lobby, prevent workers from entering. Whatever, you get the point.

The autoworker's shutdown of their own plant is "peaceful" because all they had to do was the passive act of not working. The autoworkers shutdown of your office was not peaceful because it was an active act of preventing people from doing what they would ordinarily be free and legally within their rights to do--go to work. It may not have been overtly violent, such as threatening people or assaulting them, but that doesn't make it peaceful or legitimate.

Unless the widely reported facts are different from reality, the Port of Oakland was shut down by occupation from outside--not by their own workers. Yes, I understand some fraction of the port workers participated, but was it a critical mass that would have prevented the port from operating. No. Instead, the port was occupied by hundreds or thousands of protesters who physically made the continuation of safe port operations impossible.

---

If you review this thread, you'll see I engaged in a lot of back and forth with Nadin-whatshername using the abortion clinic protest example. Why? In a rational society governed by law and mutual respect, one can't claim a right that one would deny to others. You can't legitimately claim the right to free speech if you would deny a similar right to others just because you disagree with their speech.

Do protesters have the right to interfere with the operations of a third party because they disagree with the third party or want to make a point? Nadin-whatshername supported the OWS marchers shutting down the port. Let's be clear--the port would not have shut down if the marchers had not occupied it.

Right-to-Life folks are against abortion. Fair enough. They have the right to free speech. Fair enough. They have the right to picket abortion clinics. Fair enough. They have the right to yell their objections at persons entering abortion clinics. Fair enough. The courts have upheld all of these rights. They pretty much apply to protesters of all kinds. But, do abortion protesters have the right to shut a clinic down by occupation? By blocking entrance and/or occupying the facilities such as to make operations impossible? Clearly they do not.

Nadin-whatshername never agreed with me that anti-abortion protesters do not have the right to shut down clinics by occupation. To have agreed would have forced her to reconcile the conflict between saying OWS marchers have the right to shut down a port, but that abortion protesters don't have a similar right to shut down clinics. Some in this thread tried to make a distinction by focusing on the nature of abortion clinics as health care providers. That's a stretch. But, I could just as easily made the example one of an abortion information facility, like PP, rather than an actual clinic.

So, to be clear, I *do* consider general strikes to be "peaceful" if the goal is accomplished by workers voluntarily withholding their own labor.
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. It's okay...
YOU are part of the 99% as well my friend. To think the 1% is looking out for your best interests would be ridiculous. The movement was peaceful until the provocateurs arrived. MSM distorted the timeline and there are several videos out there to prove so.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I, in NO way...
...believe the 1% are looking out for me in any way, shape, or form. Can I be more clear?
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. flamebait
But the cops started that conversation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. Hold it... Even the cops
Now recognize the anarchists were separate.

You keep pushing that we saw a very different thing.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
58. You're joking, right? Either that or you're a lickspittle for the
1%. Either way, I suspect your stay here will be very short-lived.
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redgiant Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. Why?
Enforced orthodoxy?
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
129. It's not odd...usually when I see a convoluted sub-thread, I find "Ignored" at its beginning.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
99. Actually almost all of it did.
So in no way, shape or form is the statement "In no way, shape, or form did the Nov 2 events in Oakland meet the definition of peaceable assembly" true.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #29
105. Were you there? n/t
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. And I'm sick of her trout pout. n/t
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. Re your last sentence: the New York Post has already started
running with it:

http://www.nypost.com/archives/covers/;jsessionid=60EC0ECACFD18E2378B55799B41E0912

"ENOUGH! - Mr Mayor: It's Time To Reclaim Zuccotti Park - And New York City's Dignity"


:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. Dear Diane: As one of the 1% (because you are a successful news bimbo)
you need to be aware that it is the 1% that Americans are sick and tired of.

Disgustedly,
kestrel

(and apologies to TygrBright)
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
38. Occupy doesn't care about the MSM. They've been the enemy for so long, they don't matter now. nt
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
40. 70 year old hall monitor. Mrs. Greenspan should retire too.
There is only so much botox can do.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
135. What does botox have to do with it? Is she supposed to retire based on wrinkles???
Sheesh. Why is it still okay to base your feelings and comments on a professional woman based on her age and looks???

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Laluchacontinua Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. i'm sick of diane, she's been around, what, 70 years or so? telling us what to think.
she must be facelifted within an inch of her life.

foad, diane.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. She's the answer to the trivia question:
who was on the plane with Nixon after he resigned besides that toady Ziegler?

Wotta start to a career...
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
51. Fortunately, thanks to new media like LiveStream and DU, the MSM
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 08:51 PM by coalition_unwilling
have rendered themselves largely irrelevant to the story of the Occupy Movement. What will be telling is when Occupiers begin to flex their newly-found muscles and exert pressure on advertisers on networks like ABC (owned by Disney) and NBC (owned by GE). Diane Sawyer is like one of those dinosaurs that hung around for awhile after the KP Boundary event, never realizing its days were numbered.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
53. "the mess, the graffiti, and broken windows"
almost like it was set up just for the news, no?
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. "...the media will be running with this notion."
....and tune in Sunday morning to hear george "won't", sam "the sham" donaldson and cokie "head" roberts discuss at length the over-whelming public reaction to the sawyers story and how this will negatively impact Obama....

....isn't diane Tom Sawyers mother?
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Sportsguy Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. I Heard She's His Great Grandma
:)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
60. I got sick of Diane Sawyer forty years ago.
Why is she still around?
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. But we still want to know what really happened with the Kardashian marriage...
blah blah blah
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
77. Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z. What a crashing bore Diane is.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
82. Gawd, is she still around? The Elite speak via Diane Sawyer ... ???
Btw, Diane Sawyer was in that helicopter that Nixon left the White House in after

resigning -- !!

Who's watching this garbage -- our Goebbels' Style press -- ???


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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
91. ABC News Nightline headline story tonight: Who killed Michael Jackson?
That says it all about ABC News!

Fuck Diane Sawyer.

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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
96. Well, I'm sick of Diane Sawyer
So there :D
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
100. Oh, did I not get the memo? Are the controllers of the greatest amount of capital...
no longer in control of our government? If that's the case, then yeah, let's put a stop to this protesting nonsense. But somehow I haven't heard about that. Hmm.

Broken windows? Graffiti? Haven't heard about that either. Hmm.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
102. Diane Sawyer is irrelevant. (n/t)
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
103. Wasn't Diane Sawyer an aide to Tricky Dick Nixon prior to going into 'journalism'?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
104. Diane Sawyer? Is she still around?
I thought her 15 minutes were up!
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
108. This kind of crapy is why I don't watch ABC World Gloom and Doom.
Not that NBC and CBS are much better...
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
110. Just another well paid, clueless, detached hack
This is the state of mainstream "news" these days.

I vaguely remember a George Carlin joke/commentary about the news from some years ago: there's a reason why the news is referred to as a stream... because it's so shallow.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
116. Someone needs to inform Ms. Sawyer


That America isn't full of well-fed suburban housewives with the time and leisure to clutch their pearls and "tsk tsk" the dirty hippies.

America is now full of the foreclosed upon, the unemployed, the underemployed, the graduate with no job and staggering debt, and people with inadequate access to health care.

There was a time her audience may have identified with the lone disgruntled interviewee.

Today? Catch a clue, Diane. You are so out of touch you need oxygen up there.






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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
120. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
121. Poor Diane, was she late for a pedicure due to traffic?
:sarcasm:
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BrendaBrick Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
122. Here's another recent ABC spin: Greece's Impact on the U.S.:
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 12:09 PM by BrendaBrick
Aired 11-1-2011. I couldn't figure out how to post this particular segment, but if you go to the link and hit the down scroll button for 15 segments, you should see it:

Greece's Impact on U.S.
Americans' savings could suffer if Europe's bailout plan is voted down.
11/01/2011

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/

Yeah. That's right. It is all Greece's fault!!! Greece is the TRUE enemy. Amazing to me how these 'connections' are cunningly fabricated as a distraction in an effort to deter the real culprits.

Though I have to admit that I do like the ABC segments about "Made in America" http://abcnews.go.com/WN/page/map-find-made-america-goods-13917383 as well as the "What Would You Do" show with John Quinones, (which holds a well-needed mirror up to snap judgements and prejudices as well as these everyday heroes who step up to the plate) - still when the lies and spin are interspersed into the mix, it makes it all the more insidious in trying to separate fact from fiction.

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
127. Fuck you, Diane Sawyer. I just lost all respect for you.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
137. Telling people what to think. Tsk tsk tsk.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
138. She can comment all she wants
She can editorialize all she wants. But she dare not call someone doing that, including herself, a journalist. If she still aspires to be a journalist after all these years, she'd better call up Amy Goodman for some private lessons.
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denese Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
140. must be those famous some people
"some people" told her that. Might have been her corporate media bosses
:shrug:
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
141. She realizes she's not going to be able to pay off her house after Current kills her network.
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 05:09 PM by tcaudilllg
Goodness knows Peter Jennings is offering her a stern look from the grave.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
145. Dear Ms Sawyer
the feeling is mutual.
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