Women Aggressive Toward 'Sexy' Peers

[The Straight Story]

A new study finds women can be downright nasty when they don't approve of members of their sex.

The harsh reactions of 43 women to a provocatively dressed peer, caught on tape by Canadian researchers, reveal just how sassy women get when they think someone else is sexier.

"I was convinced, having lived a life as a woman, that we're not as pleasant as some people make us out to be," said Tracy Vaillancourt, professor of psychology at the University of Ottawa and lead author of the study published in Aggressive Behavior.

Vaillancourt invited 86 women to participate in a study on conflict resolution. But she was really interested in how the women would respond to a young female student entering the room wearing either a T-shirt and khakis or a low-cut top and mini skirt.

When dressed conservatively, the student was barely noticed. But when she dressed sexy, she drew snarky stares and mocking chuckles as she left the room.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/women-aggressive-sexy-peers/story?id=15040553

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. They needed a study for this? n/t

[The Straight Story]

3. When when I dress like that women just laugh

:)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

5. no kidding... n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

106. Studies suggest that 65% of psychology and sociology studies

are merely meant to formalize as data that category of phenomena known as "Shit Everybody Already Knows."

;-)

[Major Nikon]

131. Other studies suggest that 90% of studies are bullshit

[Nuclear Unicorn]

144. I heard the actual rate was closer to 103% n/t

[laundry_queen]

195. 90% of all statistics

are made up on the spot
}(

[MH1]

519. LOL, my first reaction too.

This really comes in the 'duh' department.

[HopeHoops]

2. I get the same reaction when I walk in with my tight disco bell bottoms and an open shirt.

Especially if I've got lots of chains and medallions hanging around my neck.

[Ikonoklast]

310. Are you Disco Stu?

[reggie the dog]

312. disco stew is one hotty

gets all the ladies in east haverbrook i think...

[HopeHoops]

486. I look like Tommy Chong.

[Javaman]

522. Disco Stu knows what to do! lol nt

[Taverner]

4. Swings both ways. Men always target the hot shot in the office.

Not sure if it's natural but it reflects our over-competitive society

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. I think it's more competitive biology

Our society is not unique in this regard. Animals compete for mates and battle with rivals. You're not going to see physical head-butting contests in an office, only metaphorical ones, because at least our society has given us that much in the name of civilization; but biology is still biology.

[Taverner]

16. Good point

[Remember Me]

102. More like more competitive TRAINING by society

Women are "taught" that they have to compete with one another for the most eligible mates.

This was especially true -- and urgently important -- when women were barred from so many viable careers (other than nursing, school teaching -- but only til married!, secretaries and bookkeepers -- but only til married!, maid and other cleaner-uppers, and stewardesses -- but only til married! -- you know, the jobs most men didn't want anyway). The severe limitations placed on women to actively PREVENT them from being able to take care of themselves financially and economically (other than at not much more than a strict subsistance level) made the competition all too REAL. Want a nice life, without financial hardship? Marry well, and that means competing against all those other women.

But it's still taught in our society. See The Bachelorette, for example (or whatever that odious and disgusting TV show is called). The message is especially damaging not just because it weakens ties with other women who ought to be our natural allies, but that it delivers the message: as a female in a heterosexual relationship, YOU are not the important one. The important one, the one to be FOUGHT OVER, is the male.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

145. Animals compete, why should humans be any different?

Animals compete. Humans are animals. In any population group some will be stronger, have prettier plummage or more money. The haves are fewer than the have-nots while the want-to-haves outnumber them all. So they compete.



"How you doin'?"

[Remember Me]

203. I reject that it's innate, and I believe there have been studies to show

otherwise.

In fact, here's a whole book on the subject: http://tinyurl.com/bq27b3k

But it's a useful myth (useful to some) because it helps justify such antisocial activities as oneupmanship, cutthroat competiton and winner-take-all, a total lack of cooperation, a refusal to share, authoritarianism, etc.

[Major Nikon]

154. It's not exaclty the same

Men tend to target those who are overconfident, which may or may not have anything to do with their appearance.

[octothorpe]

189. I agree... Looks of other men rarely come into play when I'm deciding who to be an asshole to. ;)

Overconfidence and arrogance rubs me the wrong way though. Mostly 'cause no one is as good as me at anything. :P

[SkyDaddy7]

306. Really? I have found it to be the...

exact opposite...Men tend to gravitate toward the man who attracts the ladies.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

7. "Bitchiness"? Really?

*sigh*

I wonder how men react to a good looking younger man with a nice body. And what word the experiment's designer would use to label the responses they considered inappropriate.

[reggie the dog]

26. i dont think guys do it as much

it would be interesting to see a study

[slackmaster]

56. When I see a good looking younger man with a nice body I often think "Gay"

:shrug:

[DiverDave]

100. Um, I just think of what

they will look like at 54, like me.

I used to tease the young guys that we would hired to build racks in warehouses.
We had 4-6 permanent guys that went all over the west and hired fellas at each place to help with the job.
I used to tell the 20 somethings they would like to look like me when they get to be 40.

It was a physically demanding job and we worked 16-18 hours a day.
Not much fat on the crew.

But, no, no snarkyness from us.

Mostly we were too tired.

[slackmaster]

103. I'm 53. I was a strong ocean swimmer and bodysurfer at 20.

;-)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

191. Were you gay then?

:eyes:

[girl gone mad]

198. Touché. n/t

[slackmaster]

300. No, and unlike my gay friends I didn't dress or behave in ways that showed off my body

;-)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

308. You tease.

;-)

How does one "behave" to show off his body?

[treestar]

278. That's comforting

It's all about letting straight men think they are being competed for and in shortage and therefore have the upper hand.

That assertion is ridiculous. Men, like women, have better bodies when younger.

[Odin2005]

8. I think us guys do that, too.

[redqueen]

9. What word would be on the scale for men's 'inappropriate' responses?

Just curious, I'm really wondering what the alternative to 'bitch' is in this context.

I'm becoming more and more misanthropic by the day.

[The Straight Story]

11. Probably the word 'bastard', or if someone really bad, call em bush jr

:)

[MADem]

14. If we are going for something that's insult-riffic, dickhead might do. nt

[redqueen]

17. Dickheadish responses... yes, perhaps.

I wonder if anyone considers such competitive responses from men to be inappropriate, if there are any studies about it, and if they used the word "dickhead" in their alleged 'study'.

[MADem]

21. I don't know. I suppose they create these studies for the purposes of

seeing if preconceived notions pan out...or maybe just because they're pretty easy to set up.

I kind of doubt that this same group has done a male-centered study, otherwise they'd have mentioned it in the article. Maybe they will, though--one never knows.

The "bitchy" woman who undermines her peers, or the "macho" dickhead who overpowers his, are both staples of soap operas, novellas, etc. People didn't tune into Dynasty for the fine writing. It was the intrigue, the catfights and the fashions that drew people to the tee vee screen.

Everyone loves a little drama, even if it might not necessarily have basis in truth. You wonder how some might behave if people were left to their own devices and were not influenced by media of all types as well as celebrities and their shenanigans.

[LoZoccolo]

19. I've heard the phrase "player-hater" for something like eleven or twelve years. n/t

[mopinko]

22. cocky?

[lector]

30. They

would just put Son Of A in front of the word Bitch :-0)

[Mojorabbit]

40. Same word. It has evolved beyond gender IMO. nt

[redqueen]

43. LOL! Yeah, right.

On edit, maybe you are right, and the men would be therefore accused of 'acting like women'.

[Mojorabbit]

80. I watch my nephews and their friends

call each other that. My nieces and their friends also call each other that affectionately. My gay friends also call each other that. I had a phone message yesterday that said, "Hey Bitch, lets go out to dinner tonight!" from a girlfriend which took me aback. I am a woman in my mid 50's and it was the first time I have been addressed causally this way. It does seem to have morphed to a general term in my neck of the woods.

[redqueen]

81. Context is everything.

Obviously friends calling each other this term is not in any way the same thing as the way the alleged researcher in used it for her idiotic study.

[Lyric]

70. I'm a woman, but I've talked to male friends about this. The word you're looking for is "fag".

Fag, fairy, pansy, queer. That's what men often call other men if those other men dare to work out, style their hair, wear tight clothes, make their sexual attractiveness more pronounced, etc.

It's sad that worst insult a man can come up with for another man is to imply that he's too much like a woman (a.k.a., effeminate, gay, etc.)

Disclaimer: I am gay, so obviously I am not using any of these words with any ill intent.

[redqueen]

78. Well what I meant was... if this kind of observation was made about men...

what would be the term used by whatever deeply sexist and ignorant person who conducted the experiment in order to similarly categorize the reactions of the men who displayed 'inappropriate' reactions to the man in tight jeans and a muscle shirt clinging to his well-cut abs, chest, and back?

Not so much what those men would call the sexily-dressed man, but what term would the person conducting the experiment use to label their reactions, in the way that this allegedly educated woman did when she decided to use the bitch/bitchiness labels.

[Lyric]

79. Ahhh, I see.

Hmmm. Prick is one that seems colloquially equivalent to bitch in that context, but it still doesn't quite have the same layers of meaning. I really don't think that there IS a perfect corollary word.

[redqueen]

82. I don't think there is, either.

One would think that a psychologist would find that meaningful, and maybe even stop to think about why she even considered using the term.

[reggie the dog]

120. this is not true in france, but true in the usa

there are so many more fit people in general in france that being a fit male and showing off your body is seen of as normal.

now in the usa on the other hand, working out, wearing tight jeans and getting a manicure gives people strange ideas about your sexuality, as if only gay men can be sexy!

[Warren DeMontague]

171. I think there's a geographical component to that.

I think folks on the West Coast are not only less homophobic, but also in better shape, generally. (And no, that's not everyone)

All that means is we apparently effeminate fit dudes will be visiting the macho cheese puff couch potatoes in the cardiology ward. I like looking good, I'd rather have women AND men find me attractive than neither. I'm not hung up on sexuality, so I don't really give a shit if someone wants to say that me being in shape makes me seem "gay". I'm in shape and they're not, so fuck 'em.

[frylock]

76. dick

[Rex]

259. "I'm becoming more and more misanthropic by the day."

Welcome to the club, noob, there is a line so get to the back of it. :eyes:

[hifiguy]

75. I am certain that there's a male equivalent.

As someone said, accusations of being gay are common, especially from schlubby guys. There must be more examples applicable in the case of men. This kind of crap seems hardwired into much of humanity.

[Nye Bevan]

10. I have overheard this sort of thing. The cattiness can be quite astounding.

The other situation where the claws come out is when women are discussing their female boss.

[Quantess]

12. Especially if she is also younger.

This is kind of common knowledge, isn't it?

[krabigirl]

13. Yep, doesn't surprise me at all. Lots of women also hate on prettier women.

I have never understood that. I have no problem being friends with women who are prettier or sexier than me. I don't get it. Get some self-esteem, women...who cares how other women dress?

[WildNovember]

58. But it wasn't about her being younger or prettier. The subjects judged themselves

likely to be friends with the conservatively-dressed woman rather than the two "sexily" dressed women -- but they were all the same woman -- same face, same body (except in one of the pictures the body was fattened).

So it was about the dress, not about the prettiness, the youth, or the body shape. And IMO, about the subjects' judgement of the "meaning" of that dress -- since there are/have been many cultures where scanty dress for women is perfectly normal and not considered a sexual come-on.

[redqueen]

60. Thank you for your posts on this topic. (nt)

[lolly]

63. Maybe they were annoyed with the lack of good judgment?

Wouldn't most people be annoyed if anyone--male or female--showed up to an important board meeting or conference in completely inappropriate clothing?

Professionals shouldn't dress as if they're heading to the singles bar.

[treestar]

279. True, and it emphasizes women still have a long way to go

before considering what they can accomplish outside their sexuality.

Using it to get ahead in business - that could be the problem.

[krabigirl]

185. ehh, I don't care what other women wear.

[reggie the dog]

316. france, italy, spain

just to name 3 countries where women dressing like that is not a sexual come on

[girl gone mad]

474. It's probably a matter of context and appropriateness.

Safe to say women admire and adore other beautiful, sexy women or else Marilyn Monroe wouldn't be the most idolized woman of the last century.

[LoZoccolo]

18. I'll just leave this right here...

http://www.csom.umn.edu/Assets/71503.pdf

[raccoon]

38. thanks for the link. very interesting. nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[AngryAmish]

24. Name a major culture where this sort of thing does not exist

Just one.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[sibelian]

32. The top right hand corner of that square

is interesting.

[sibelian]

23. I've mostly worked as a lone male among women.

I'm generalising - but - they tend to express their displeasure with a person out of that person's range of hearing.

[reggie the dog]

25. i see other women do this to my girlfriend all the time

they did it to my ex wife too

jealousy, pure and simple

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[reggie the dog]

39. dont believe me then

i started dating my ex wife when she was 24, she is tall, thin, blonde hair with blue eyes and liked to wear knee high boots and mini skirts (like french women do) and she got lots of scowls, especially in the usa

my new girlfriend is tall, thin, with long wavy black hair and also wears the mini skirts with boots fashion and gets scowls from other women from their 30's up. (20 something women are younger so dont do it so much)

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

46. ...."are thinking "jeez what a butterface!"

Wow. That's not catty.....not at all.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Bunny]

52. It totally went over his head.

And proved your point exactly. :rofl:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

54. I'm not the same poster with the hot gf

Sorry.

[Bunny]

55. Yes, I know that.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

72. Deleted sub-thread

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[reggie the dog]

86. what i claim is true

i date sexy, highly educated women. my current girlfriend has a masters degree in european union law, speaks french, english, arab and japanese, is a mid management civil servant, and when she dresses to impress she is impressive, hell when she is dressed for the office she gets a lot of attention.

make fun of her all you want I will not apologize for dating sexy women.

[sibelian]

110. "Beautiful ladies in emergency situations!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT8hVPUlIJ4

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

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[redqueen]

276. That is fucking hilarious. Even better are the morons commenting who don't get it.

Brilliance. Sheer brilliance.

[myrna minx]

339. Love it.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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[reggie the dog]

126. are you ashamed to date sexy members of the opposite sex?

really what is wrong with doing such a thing?

it is easy to do to, just work out, have no flabby areas on your body, and wear tight sweaters and pants to show it off.

i met my ex wife in grad school, she was the sexy french foreign exchange student, i was the guy with enough balls to ask her on a date the first night of classes. it lasted 8 years. so snark it up, i date sexy women and am happy as hell to do so.

[redqueen]

127. Your definition of 'sexy' is so very incredibly shallow...

then again, it's by far the more popular one. Superficiality reigns supreme.

[reggie the dog]

128. what do i see first? superficial beauty

the next step, and i actually tell this to women when i hit on them, i say "i want to get to know you, i want to know if your sprit is as beautiful as your body". if it isnt then i dont waste my time. i get sexy looking women who also have hearts of gold. my current girlfriend is absolutely amazing with my daughter, that adds greatly to her sexiness in my mind as does the way she is with my family. give me a uniquely sexy looking women but who is not nice to my kid and family and i will lose interest very very quickly.

besides, this study is about judgements made based on observed superficial beauty.

[redqueen]

130. Yeah, whatever.

As long as everyone is super sexy and you're happy with that, that's all that matters. Different strokes for different folks.

I've been cynical about/repulsed by anyone who makes a big deal about appearance since I was 12.

[reggie the dog]

221. ;;;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg

[ceile]

346. +1

[Cats Against Frist]

152. There is NOTHING hotter than a mid-management civil servant

However did you find this wild spirit?

[reggie the dog]

224. wild spirt? a woman doing a job dominated by males

buying goods for the civil service in "les marchés publiques"

snark all you want, i have a hot office woman, who is management, has job security, and has no desire to work for the corporations the are fucking us over.

you find someone who can make 5 or 10 times more money in the private sector but who stays in the public sector out of principle.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. You called someone a "butterface"

I thought only misogynist pigs knew that word!

Guess not!

[Bunny]

57. Well, you knew it, am I right?

What does that make you? :rofl:

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reggie the dog]

87. a toad??? ha ha ha

i am 32 but look mid twenties because i do between 100 and 200 km of mountain biking each week. add in long dishwater blond hair (rare for guys even here in france) and i am quite the catch. i get hit on by beautiful women and they are receptive to my advances here in France. in the usa i have more trouble because i dont have a lot of money, but with French women that is not really an issue at all.

my girlfriend is not a fanatasy, although she does like helping me live out some of my fantasies.

[Number23]

117. Damn, what is with you and the fetish over blonde hair?

add in long dishwater blond hair

Is that a commodity or something? You made a big deal over your ex-wife being "blue eyed and blonde" and you seem to think that because YOU are blonde that this is something that instantly makes you more attractive.

And is "dishwater" supposed to be a better blonde than the regular blonde or what?

[reggie the dog]

119. people have their own fetishes

i happen to have dishwater blonde hair naturally. shitloads of men and women dye their hair in order to have the same color i have. i have long hair, i notice that a certain percentage of women just love this.

i like black hair brown hair, red hair, hell any hair.

now my fetish? i have 2 i like being dominated by women and i like them to be submissive to me too. not full on s and m, just light domination, getting super drunk or high and letting the other partner do what they wish with you, that kind of fetish, oh yeah, and micro mini skirts and tiny dresess. the hair color, i dont really care, like i said my new girlfriend has long, wavy black hair.....she is also mixed european, asian and black african so dont even suggest that i am only into blonde hair and blue eyes.

[Number23]

121. I really couldn't care less about your "dom/submissive" fetish foolishness

or any of your other fetishes. PLEASE believe me when I say that to you.

And for someone who apparently gets so much attention from the ladies (due, of course, to the bike riding and flowing blonde tresses) it sure takes precious little for you to put all of your business out there. I've found that the ones that talk the most typically ONLY have talk.

But yeah. I'm sure that you're the exception to that rule. Yeah...

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

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[Number23]

129. Heh. If she's all that, maybe she'll go for me too. And I'm a chick!

But even with my feminine shortcomings, I bet I can find the same computer program/air pump that reggie uses to fire her up...

[reggie the dog]

132. i would love to see you and her make love to each other, really

i told her i would give her 2 guys at once when she said it was a fantasy of hers, but she was shocked that i agreed so we havent done it yet and she knows that i would love to see her with another woman. if i were a dick i could have had that last weekend as she went out for drinks with a bi friend of ours and they were both trashed, i could have been a real shithead and taken advantage of both of them, but i didnt, part of the drunk fetish means pre agreed boundries.

like i say, snark it up, my lade is not a fantasy in the sense you suggests, but she sure as hell satisfies me, and yes, as the poster above suggested she has more of a sexual appetite than i do, not surprising considering that she is 35.

[sibelian]

137. ....

......

[WildNovember]

218. I don't think I'd like my boyfriend talking about me & our intimate life in a public online space.

Maybe it's just me.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

But all that seems very "16 years old" to me.

[reggie the dog]

219. in public is one thing

but our friends dont know my handle on here, none of my real life friends post on her nor hers. i dont talk about this kind of stuff with my real name

[WildNovember]

230. I still wouldn't like it. *I* would know, and it would feel creepy to have my boyfriend talking

about our sex life to strangers, whether he/I were supposedly anonymous or not.

For myself, that would be enough to make me question the relationship.

[LanternWaste]

277. I see it less as a "16 year old" response and more as...

I see it less as a "16 year old" response and more as simple self-validation.

[LanternWaste]

275. I imagine many people confine themselves...

I imagine many people confine themselves to the metaphorical 1% of format and form.

[redqueen]

387. I like this post.

Just wanted to say that.

[reggie the dog]

133. gorgeous, multilingual, vixen, lots of sexual appetite but not nympho

did i mention that she is mixed race from a tropical island? dark skin, dark eyes, wavy black hair and a culture that is not even wholly european.

yep, i have that kind of woman, who is from an island in the indian ocean.

[reggie the dog]

125. all my business? i just give tiny details

it would be immodest to tell all.

besides you started asking me about my fetishes.

i am just open about my sexuality and what i like. it comes with being self confident about ones sexuality, sexual performance, and is generally the sign of a healthy sex life.

plus why are fetishes foolishness? what about your fetishes? are they foolish or just fun?

why did i say i date hot women? because i see how other women treat them. usually poorly.

my buddy who goes out biking with me was dumbfounded that i got so many women to turn their heads but not him, it is simple, he has short hair, like the vast majority of men, i dont, i stick out, i get attention and yes, i love it.

[sibelian]

136. Giggity.

[Number23]

143. ROFL!!!

Ow!! My sides!!! :rofl:

[Amaril]

264. !!!!

Best response yet!

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

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[reggie the dog]

220. if i told all, you would be shocked

[redqueen]

250. Um, no. I doubt very many would.

It isn't the 50's anymore. Not even the 60's. These things aren't shocking anymore.

Nevertheless... please, please don't tell all. Save that for your sexy blog.

[seabeyond]

251. this is something else that surprises me. it is like the 16 yr old

just walking into their sexuality, think they know and are doing things that would SHOCK the world of older adults. and we smile, shake our head, and been there, done that for years. what makes you think you are the first to figure all this stuff out

i have always chuckled at that.

[redqueen]

258. Yeah, it makes one wonder....

I'm sure some sheltered person who has never seen porn or read anything racier than mainstream stuff might be shocked. But the majority? Please.

[reggie the dog]

317. if you have been there and done that for years

then why are you embarassed to talk about it on an anonymous forum?

[seabeyond]

336. bah hahaha

aren't you being presumptuous. and what makes you think i have an embarrassed bone in my body, lol.

dude.... you are way out there.

i have not told you to not post your sexual exploits, though, i really dont care about them either and am not interested. i have no desire to interact with you with what position or where you did it, unless it pertains to the issue being discussed. but that has nothing to do with embarrassment. why would you assume something like that

so, lets take that point. your inability to correctly assign motivation or intent. the point my posts have been to you, is you assume and state for a fact the reason you're GF is getting a look. and you cannot know. i know this. it is just a guess. but, for you, it is absolutely a fact. the more interesting for me, would be when you see a look you perceive to stem from jealousy, to ask, why the look.

you could think there is a look and there is none. you could think there is a look, but really the woman had something else on her mind and your whole story is off. you could perceive a look from a woman being jealous of GF when in fact, she thought your girl was acting like a bimbo or something and it was behavior or attitude that got that look, not jealous of GF looks.

if ALL the women in france dress in this manner, and it is not considered a sexual come on in france, then it makes no sense for women to go around giving your GF "the look".

that is the issue. that is what i prefer discussing. is the study. and behavior. that is my thing. not your sex life.

[reggie the dog]

416. ok

"is you assume and state for a fact the reason you're GF is getting a look. and you cannot know. i know this. it is just a guess. but, for you, it is absolutely a fact. the more interesting for me, would be when you see a look you perceive to stem from jealousy, to ask, why the look."

this is true, it could be this for the non white girlfriend here in france, but she looks islander more than african and the racists here hate africans, not islanders.

lots of women dress like this in france, the women who have the most problem wearing skirts are the ones with north african roots who have the men in their families telling them not to show off their body at all and this is not just the hardcore muslims, the girls generally want to wear skirts but their "big brothers" and dads and in some areas, neighborhood toughs dont let them.

[Dorian Gray]

151. I don't even know what dishwater blonde

means.

What shade is it?

[JoeyT]

216. Filth gray?

The greenish tint of rancid food?

I have no idea either.

Apparently it means the same thing as "dirty blonde".

[reggie the dog]

222. just how we say browinsh blonde hair in the mid west

[msanthrope]

248. Dishwater blonde is dirty blonde--it generally looks like you don't keep your roots up. nt

[reggie the dog]

319. no, that is dyed hair

dishwater blonde means that you have hair that is natrually between blonde and brown color that gets lighter from the sun in the summer time.

[msanthrope]

337. Oh Reggie, the posts on your hair, your sex life, and your fantasy sexual partners

are priceless.

Don't ever change.

[reggie the dog]

412. fantasy???

this really is getting funny now.

who told me i have great hair? women have told me that. A certain percentage of women love men with long hair and i think that percentage is greater than the percentage of men who wear there hair long where i live.......


sex life is just normal weekend amusement with my girlfriend, i just talk on here like i dont do around friends because i can give details and no one knows who me and my lady are so i am not embarrased.

[msanthrope]

420. Oh, Reggie, you just keep mansplaining about your sex life!!

Don't ever change!!

[Dorian Gray]

150. You are really falling for the bait

Please stop trying to prove how attractive you and your partners are. Nobody really cares all that much while posting online.

[reggie the dog]

223. yet i am a toad and she is a butterface

or whatever they have been calling us, which sort of proves the premis of the study cited in this thread.

[Dorian Gray]

237. I would never say that

those things are totally rude and obnoxious, and calling your GF a butterface sort of proves the validity of the OP.

But to go on and on in post after post about how attractive you guys are just really feels of desperation to prove something to everyone here. It's just weird. Don't worry what anybody thinks. You don't need to prove anything to anyone.

[reggie the dog]

311. i was more having fun with it seeing as how it was getting

the others worked up, it all started because i said i had seen women do this to my ex wife and new girlfriend and the insults started flying, along with saying i was in a fantasy world.

i am quite confident that i am not the only person on this board who has a nice looking significant other but i wonder where the hate comes from. it is like we are supposed to be ashamed of having worked out and looking fit.

[Name removed]

253. Deleted message

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[reggie the dog]

320. yep, and you might be a shithead

i guess we will never know

[Name removed]

370. Deleted message

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[Scout]

325. NO ONE called you a toad or your women butterface....

here is the statement in question:

Maybe the women scowling at your ex and your new GF are thinking "jeez what a butterface!"

:eyes:

[Name removed]

363. Deleted message

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[reggie the dog]

419. short and fat sure isnt attractive in my book

some people like that, i dont.

yeah, insulting my girlfriend is an insult to me.

[Scout]

431. arrogant and ignorant aren't attractive in my book. some people like that, i don't. n/t

[reggie the dog]

505. how am i arrogant or ignorant?

i dont think fat women look good so i never hit on them. why should i? i work out a lot to stay fit so i can get in shape women as lovers. that is not arrogant nor ignorant.

[Scout]

512. i didn't say YOU were arrogant or ignorant....

i was just stating my preferences, as you have been stating yours.

[reggie the dog]

513. fair enough

[Name removed]

432. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[redqueen]

64. Oh you just said a mouthful right there...

"it's not like we ladies aren't kept apprised of the important thoughts of misogynist pigs constantly"

It must be reinforced as often as possible, lest anyone start getting the idea that it isn't incredibly important to everyone around them. I suppose it never crosses their minds that nobody but them and their fellow pigs give a **** what they think of any woman's looks, or what they would or would not do to/with her.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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[redqueen]

68. "it always had to be about them, 100% of the time"

Well the vast majority of people, both men AND women, reinforce that idea, constantly.

Most of them also can do nothing but mock anyone who dares to suggest that these issues deserve consideration. Most of them also will bend over backwards and do just about anything to avoid thinking about the concepts which they obviously seem to try so very hard not to understand (e.g. objectification).

[Warren DeMontague]

226. Cool Story, Bro!

[Name removed]

254. Deleted message

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[Warren DeMontague]

283. Why you always on about women, Stan?

[reggie the dog]

322. so i am not supposed to like looking at sexy women?

really? i am supposed to hit on women i think are not pleasant looking? why would i do that?

[Scout]

328. "why would i do that?"

because you aren't a shallow, superficial asshole?

[redqueen]

335. LMFAO

Succinct and direct. Love it.

Unfortunately, it's been glorified so thoroughly for so long now that it's now considered a sacred right to be a superficial asshole. Who would dare question it? Only prudes and jelliz wimminz.

Ah, society... you so crazy.

[reggie the dog]

410. i am gonna hit on women i think are ugly instead of ones i think are

hot? are you fucking serious? what would my motivation be to do such a thing? :shrug:

superficial? i work out, i am attracted to in shape women. that is all there is to it.

that doesnt make me shallow.

[Scout]

434. yes, your obsession with your appearance and hers is shallow.

deal with it.

[Warren DeMontague]

440. entitlement

is thinking you've been placed on Earth to run other peoples' lives for em.

[JVS]

491. Because that's how you really score, bro! Less quality = more quantity!

[reggie the dog]

506. lmao

[reggie the dog]

85. where do i take a snipe at older women?

i am just telling you what i have seen, sorry for dating sexy women. it helps that i work out a lot (lots of biking) so seeing as i am really fit i get fit girls.

[redqueen]

89. Your physical characteristics, and those of your wife....

aren't really so germane to the conversation. Just saying that she dresses in a provocative manner is enough, as that is the topic covered in the "study".

The swipe is here: "gets scowls from other women from their 30's up. (20 something women are younger so dont do it so much)"

Your anecdotal observation is ... well, anecdotal (close to meaningless in the context of scientific studies). It was added, seemingly, for no other reason than to indicate that you think it's only older women who are "bitchy" and the younger ones are just fine with your 'super hot no really she's really super hot and also classy and educated and also very sexy. did i mention that she's gorgeous?' wife.

[reggie the dog]

91. ex wife and current girlfriend

once again i am just telling you what i see. and just to fill you in, dressing in knee high boots and a mini skirt is considered NORMAL for woemen here in France, not provocative.

but yes, sometimes i ask my girlfriends to dress provocative in tiny coctail dresses, but hey, they like to see me in skin tight jeans so that is really win win in the end of the day.

plus where do i say they are really hot? they are just sexy, not "top model" (that is too skinny for my likes anyways)

the woman in the photo in the study, the "really hot one" is just what i consider to be normal for me to date. i work out a lot so i can be picky like that.

[seabeyond]

92. so, in france all the women so much more sexually open, provocative, yada yada, YET, the old ladies

still act bitchy to your GF and X?

doesnt make sense.

since they are all that and are all out there, i dont see why anyone would lift an eyebrow.

[reggie the dog]

94. because not all the women have as attractive of bodies as the women

i date, that is why, it is really that simple, and i also said in my posts that it was worse in the usa.

in a thread about how sexy women are mistreated by women you jump on me for saying that i have seen my ex wife and current girlfriend mistreated in such a way??? really??? do you want me to be ashamed of having had a sexy wife and for now having a sexy girlfriend?

[seabeyond]

97. where in the world do you come to the reasoning i am even talking about your abilities as a man

my post has nothing to do with that.

i really dont give a shit if they are beautiful or butt ugly. people are people, and hoping you are happy in your choices. that is about the extent i go to internet interest in another person mate.

you act like you know WHY women may not respond warmly to these women. you dont. i know this to be true, cause you cannot know what another is thinking in passing.

kinda like below. the russian woman. you assume it is cause she is gorgeous. could be who the girl is that the women dont like. she doesnt sound likable if she is willing to fuck a married man.

there are no other beautiful girls in that school that all the women teachers are all over her ass?

[reggie the dog]

99. she was the only model at the school

the only russian student to my knowledge too. she had lots of men chasing after her. the others were jealous. they wanted her to be ashamed of her body.

plus if the woman wants to fuck a married man it is not her that is immoral, it is the married man, he is the one breaking his vow to his wife, the other woman is not repsponsilbe for that.

[seabeyond]

104. it certainly does say something about someone willing to hurt a complete stranger

social responsibility comes in many ways, and yes it is about character.

there are no other young women with good bodies in your school? cause i gotta tell you, the title "model" is not a big deal to most women. seems to be the all meaning word for men.

and if in france, it is all about lettting things hang out, we are back to the beginning. it makes no sense that all of a sudden the french women are into shaming another about her body.

i am not buying it. i dont know why those women spoke poorly about the one. could be a number of reasons.

[reggie the dog]

108. how does a woman hurt a stranger if she has sex with somone?

if that someone is married HE hurts his wife, the other woman hurts no one, it is not her that made a vow to anyone. most of the time the man would not even tell her he was married if his goal was to cheat so she wouldnt even know he had a wife.

[seabeyond]

113. yes a person... and i am not talking gender specific, is hurting a total stranger for no reason

but self absorbtion.

i know there are people that believe as you do. i take my personal responsibility to the extent that though i did not make the commitment, i know that person is taken. i wont sell myself out for sex with a creepy person that so lacks character. there are more than enough men to choose from. i need to be able to look at myself in the mirror. there are plenty that believe as i do.

so we disagree.

[reggie the dog]

116. actually we agree

the only time i had sex with a married woman she was already seperated and her husband already had another woman too. cheaters kind of turn me off.

but what about the cases when you dont know the person has a spouse and they dont tell you? i think that most cheaters dont let the "other person" know about their spouse.

[seabeyond]

134. if you dont know the person is married, then you dont know. there are plenty of signs

to know if a person is married. i cannot readily believe that a person is so fooled. i think it is more the rare occurence. i am talking about the person that knowingly screws someone who is married. the cheater is a creep. the person that is with the cheater is a creep, too, regardless it is not their vows made.

[redqueen]

135. There's this wacky radical crazy thing that some really unbelievable people do sometimes...

ask about a person's relationship status before hitting on them.

I know! Crazy, right?

[seabeyond]

139. it is way out there, i hear ya. lol.

it isnt like asking someone their weight or salary, ect.... shouldnt be a secret.

[reggie the dog]

225. asking is fine, receiving an honest answer is not so easy

[Warren DeMontague]

227. Isn't the asking about the relationship status a form of hitting on someone, too?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

239. No.

One might be asking in order to invite someone to meet a single friend of theirs or some other reason. People's egos do tend to dominate most, though, so it's probably going to be perceived that way initially anyway, but it still gets the issue out of the way immediately.

[stevenleser]

273. Of course it is in the situation that Reggie describes. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

282. My wedding ring usually gets the job done

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

284. absolutely, as does mine. then there are people that dont wear the ring and leave it in question

i have to guess that is what happened with the story reggie told. no ring.

i dont know....

[seabeyond]

287. you didnt reply to me. sorry. on my computer it looks like it. nt

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

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[eridani]

245. You mean "power surges," right? n/t

[seabeyond]

246. really? lol. interesting.

i like

[Fantastic Anarchist]

140. What the fuck is your problem? What did Reggie do to you?

I'm thinking you're just jealous.

Wow, such vitriol to someone just making an observation about his g/f.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

149. Please explain how I'm getting "butthurt" about it.

Besides the fact that you like using the word a lot. Kind of childish if you ask me.

Edit: spelling

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

156. Your trolling notwithstanding ...

What's wrong with saying in jest that I'd like to be part of that study? Please, kind ZenaD, let me know the acceptable things I'm allowed to say.

:rofl: indeed

[seabeyond]

160. trolling? most say, welcome

to our new du'ers

[Fantastic Anarchist]

161. Not when they're being offensive and baiting other members.

I usually welcome new DUers who aren't trying to bait other members with childish terms like "butthurt."

[seabeyond]

163. i believe it started with a dig against ALL women over 30. why arent you all over his ass? nt

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

170. Where did I mention anything about women over 30?

Oh, did you just go on a spree and any guys who crossed your path deserved a good "butthurt," eh? If one of us lowly men say something insulting, I guess we're all fair game, eh?

And you, because you use your womanhood like a shield, are allowed to insult other posters here at your whim.

Okay, now that I know your rules, I will just tuck my tail between my legs and just apologize for being a "dude."

:eyes:

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

178. I'm not insulting you.

Your world must be upside down, because you're the only one doing the insulting. In fact, you really display someone who is hurting inside. Masking it with that tough, "oh, I'm laughing at you" routine.

It's kind of obvious.

But that's irrelevant. My main point was that you felt the need to insult the male posters of this thread (both the evil ones and the not so evil ones, if they exist in your world).

But, I digress.

[seabeyond]

206. give it a break. that is a ridiculous post to demean. that is not how she comes across at all

you are trying to do your jabs and then say

me?

me?

i am not insulting anyone.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

211. I'm making an observation ...

The way she has treated me and other posters in this thread looks like, to me, that she's just lashing out because she doesn't feel good about herself. That's not an insult, it's an observation I'm making from comments she has made to me and others.

And you're still defending her and her double-standard.

[seabeyond]

213. you are being passive aggressive then declaring innocence.

i have kids. i hear it all the time.

i am not defending her. i am calling out that pathetic post of yours.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

214. That's your opinion ...

And I still have yet to see you admonish her as intensely as you're admonishing me for your perception of my being "passive aggressive."

If you want to get real, just admit that you side with her and quit the faux outrage at my passive aggressiveness. If you were really interested in being objective, you would have laid the hammer down on both of us.

But you're defending the double-standard - so you can't do that.

[reggie the dog]

229. my girlfriend is 35, i am 32

you misread what i said about women scolwing at her, women younger than her down scowl at her

[Fantastic Anarchist]

167. I didn't see that dig.

What was the dig? I, myself, love older women (or any woman). I wouldn't insult a woman, anyway, especially regarding her looks (or at least I try not to). If he did make a distinction, then hell, he's at fault, too.

Edit: clarity

[Warren DeMontague]

228. "new"

Mmmm Hmmmm.


Like so many things, I guess that depends on the definition of the word.

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

159. ha ha. point.

on edit, not point as in score... so childish. point as in good point.

[reggie the dog]

324. they think that we are "taking it in the ass"

as if having anal sex makes us less of a man. i bet they dont even know they are being homophobic to me even though i am hetero....

[redqueen]

361. I don't think that term means what you think it means.

My understanding is that it refers to the way a small child will sometimes cry as if they've been scalded with boiling water just from falling down on their behind.

[seabeyond]

365. thanks for the definition. i didnt know that term, either. lol. nt

[Cats Against Frist]

157. I absolutely love these threads

and how it makes men who think they're otherwise the paragons of wisdom squirm. If your sexual attraction can be reduced to typical physical characteristics, you're just as banal as everyone else. Nothing special. Put down the wheat germ or the bandana or whatever, stop recycling, drop that "think differently" t-shirt...

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

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[redqueen]

240. +1

[reggie the dog]

327. i have to stop caring about the environment

stop eating well, stop growing my own weed because i am not only attracted to sexy women but have a decent amount of success in getting them to go on dates with me?

holy shit!

[Javaman]

523. +1 nt

[Upton]

158. Be quite honest you sound envious..

not of Reggie, but of his girlfriend. Which is sort of what this thread is all about..

[seabeyond]

162. gee guys, this is a new one. a female poster doesnt buy into the male shit and you attack her

sexuality...

wow

never heard this one.

lets see all the men that jump on this gal cause she doesnt fall into line

getting ugly

[Fantastic Anarchist]

164. Wait a second ...

So, she gets a free ride about insulting another poster's girlfriend? That's not feminism to me. She can't hide behind the fact that she's a woman and use that as a shield to insult other posters. So far in this thread, she's insulted multiple posters, as well as, baited them - in fact, she tried to bait me with the term "butthurt" multiple times.

There have been other women that have made their point without the need to insult us unruly men.

How can you defend that? Have I insulted anyone here? Did I deserve her insults? Did anyone else? Be honest. Read the thread and judge for yourself.

[seabeyond]

168. i am not much into name calling either.

and it is done often. regularly on du. a woman dares to speak out against objectification and the name calling flies. almost always going after a womans sexuality. you see it often and in this thread.

reggie worked pretty hard starting the baiting, but i dont see you or the others addressing him.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

173. I don't and didn't see the remark you are referring to ...

... but I did say, if he did, then he's just as much at fault. I'm not making excuses for him.

But I can talk about what I DID see and what I DID experience - and I see you defending it. Take an objective look and see if you can actually see my side.

[seabeyond]

207. you have a point on the name calling and i already acknowledge.

that is about it.

i read that ridiculous psychoanalyzing post of yours that was a pure attempt at demeaning the poster.

done

[Fantastic Anarchist]

212. No, it wasn't.

You may see it as a covert attempt at demeaning her, I saw it as an observation from the actual insults she's hurled at me and others. But, I still see you have a lot to say to her about saying I'm "butthurt."

Still defending her and her double-standard.

[reggie the dog]

330. my baiting was supposedly when i said, in refernce to my 35 yr old

girlfriend, that women from their 30s up often treated her like women are treated in the study.

that she is a boss may not help things either.

[reggie the dog]

329. worked hard? i

i said i noticed that women did to my girlfriend what is talked about in this study. for whatever reason, women younger than my 35 year old girlfriend dont do it so much whereas women from her age up do.

with my ex we were together when we were 24 so.....

i did no baiting

unless working out and being fit and being attracted to other physically fit people is baiting.

[redqueen]

362. OK now you're just lying.

You already admitted earlier that you were doing it to bait people.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2397945&mesg_id=2404770

Bad form.

[reggie the dog]

409. baiting implies lying or misrepresentation

of which i did neither.

nice try though

[redqueen]

241. Insulting?

How? By speculating about hypothetical situations involving her?

Have you really missed the hundreds of posts in which DUers say such things about women here on this forum for daring to question male privilege? Or is this one obviously jokey example somehow worse in your opinion than the stuff we see on a far more regulations basis?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

243. So, you're of the opinion that since it happens here so often ...

... from males against females, then an insult or two, no matter the degree, is deserved going the other direction.

Yeah, that's not the way to solve problems. I've seen other posts by you, and I usually agree with them, or at least, you present a good argument. The post you just made, unfortunately, was not one of them.

[redqueen]

244. Nope.

I'm of the opinion that her jokey speculation was nowhere near as bad as some of the actual personal attacks that are so common in these threads, and its puzzling that those attacks generate much less outrage. It's odd.

[reggie the dog]

331. male privilege?

what? women objectify me. my university students even do it. i really dont mind if men and women find me to be "nice eye candy". i work out.

[Upton]

166. You should talk..

every time there's a thread even remotely related to women and sexuality, you and the rest of the anti sex Dworkin brigade jump right in pushing your old school feminism.

[seabeyond]

172. anti sex Dworkin brigade. yup, par for course. same old, same old. tell me

how wounded do you really think i am over the continued attacks on my sexuality. how hurtful do you think it really is. you dont know shit about me. know nothing about my life. why in the world do you think it matters an anonymous nobody insults me?

that is the best you have. it is so very sad, tired, old, and well used.

[Upton]

180. Yet you've participated in and done nothing but defend

the attacks on reggie, his girlfriend, and their sexuality. How's that old double standard working out for ya?

[seabeyond]

205. no... i have not attack reggie or his GF. or their sexuality. link....

how is making things up working for you.

and hey, btw... this is a thread on womens behavior. you are lecturing ME being in this thread on women's behavior? why are you in this thread?

and you dont need to answer, but you seem to be replying in the same threads as i.

and i actually put some thought into it, and have my serious response below. it was that all out attack from the guys that brought me to this subthread.

[JI7]

193. It sounds like of Douchy i guess ,i have met many guys with hot wives/girlfriends

and they don't talk about them the way the poster does. even the old not so attractive guys with hot wives/girlfriends don't talk that way about them.

to me it comes off as fantasy . add in the comments of his own description and how everyone wishes they had that.

and Boots are worn by many women and especially in a liberal place like France isn't going to be seen as a woman trying to be sexy. it's like wearing a coat in winter.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

197. It's quite possible. I can't say one way or another.

I'm agnostic about his posts - and they're irrelevant to me.

What I do care about is how some think they can insult other male posters (all the while they're doing the insulting), and how others defend such actions because the one doing the insulting is a woman in a thread about how women treat other women because of the way they look.

I see a double-standard at play, and I was ridiculed for my efforts.

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

202. Interesting.

So, if a guy insults a girl, and she comments about it, then it's okay to sarcastically imply that she's a "victim.". (note the quote)

Very interesting.

Do you even realize what you are doing?

[JI7]

204. sorry but some of the male victim threads on DU remind me of reverse discrimination on race

from wingnuts.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

210. Huh?

Oh, so I wasn't insulted with terms like "butthurt?" And when I point it out, I guess I'm a "wingnut."

Very interesting.

[treestar]

293. +1

And hijacking the issue to boast!

[reggie the dog]

334. i talk like this because no one here knows the real me

i am much more modest in the real world. in front of friends i would talk about seeing women treat my sexy girlfriend differently, but would not give more details about our sex lives. plus in the real world people can look and decide if we are both sexy or not. i really dont like it when people call my lady butterface just because i say she is sexy. that makes me want to keep pissing that poster off quite frankly, and i dont even have to lie or exaggerate to do so.

[Warren DeMontague]

176. Methinks

thou protesteth a bit too much.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

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[Warren DeMontague]

181. Or something

or other

[Fantastic Anarchist]

184. Yes, because when we object to your insults, we're just being assholy men.

:eyes:

I mean, it's really a win/win for you. If we express our opinion, we're just "butthurt." If we object to being insulted, much like you would object to women being insulted for being women, well, we're just "butthurt."

It must really cool to invent the game and the rules and everyone else just sucks in your world - are you masking any pain inside? I'm not a psychologist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night, and I'm really sensing a defense mechanism - just berate everyone else and it will just make your own self feel better.

Sweet.

[Name removed]

187. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

188. Wow.

Edit: Still refuse to engage in constructive dialog.

Interesting. The sadness and the hate win the day.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

199. Enjoy your meal.

[Warren DeMontague]

231. "She" is supposed to be 48 and constantly using the word "butthurt"

Player is right.

[Name removed]

256. Deleted message

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[Warren DeMontague]

281. Crunch all you want

You'll make more.

[reggie the dog]

340. how do you know we dont LIKE taking it in the ass?

strap ons are not just for lesbiens you know

[reggie the dog]

338. perhaps we like our butts to hurt and tell our ladies to fuck us with

strap ons. ever think of that, so being butthurt would remind us of having sex with our partners

or if people were gay, what would your butthurt imply to a gay male couple?

[krabigirl]

183. i call bullshit.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

190. I objected upthread ... but I'm a guy so I deserve to be ridiculed.

I guess whatever any man has ever done to any woman on earth in the history of the world, is my fault. And for voicing my opinion, it just only displays what a horrible man I am.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

194. You forgot to add:

"And all guys expressing an opinion, no matter how innocuous, or if they protest to my insults, are just 'butthurt', 'cuz that's how I roll."

[Warren DeMontague]

232. Nice of you to drop by.

Enjoy y'alls stay.

[reggie the dog]

344. thigh high boots?

you see knee high boots and change it to the racier thigh high for what reason?

and i am not a triathalete, i am a horrible swimmer.

the kama sutra skills are a plus though

[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

444. honestly, I wonder how you keep them all straight.

I'm imagining a scratched up old wooden desk littered with little scraps of note paper.

[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

450. Apparently.

Although I'd imagine it's MASSIVELY time consuming. Maybe you should take up whittling, or building ships in bottles, or something.

[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

453. That's deep, man.

Just between you & me; pick a number. 20? 30? 50?


Ballpark it for me. How many we talking, here?

[chrisa]

249. Wow. Completely uncalled for.

I also found it funny and ironic that your title reads, "Meh. I'm 48 and don't scowl at young women," then you decide to call Reggiethedog's girlfriend, who you have never seen before, a "butterface."

[Name removed]

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[redqueen]

255. It's funny how so many people are mistaking

a jokey hypothetical speculation with a real personal attack.

Not funny in the 'ha ha' way... more like in the 'what the hell ever happened to reading comprehension' way.

[Name removed]

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[redqueen]

262. Well that's the culture we live in.

Anyone who dares question it must be shouted down, mocked, etc.

You should have seen the meltdowns here a few weeks ago, when someone dared to suggest that porn could possibly be harmful. Many of them still haven't recovered and are still traumatized that anyone could dare suggest such a thing. It was truly something to see. When I say meltdowns, I am not exaggerating. At all. Even a little.

[seabeyond]

265. haven't recovered and are still traumatized ... I say meltdowns, I am not exaggerating

exactly. just, exactly

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[reggie the dog]

349. still havent recovered? i have long since

tried to convince my girlfriend to let me record her stripping and playing with herself so i can watch and play with myself while not with her. she is cool with the idea and wants similar vids of me. so next time we dont have the kids it will be fun. but that is probably horrible evil porn right.

[redqueen]

376. OMFG

:rofl:

Nice details there, man. When you try, you really try hard, don't you?

Narcissistic much? I wasn't referring to you, reggie. I was referring to the posters who were freaking out. You didn't freak out.

[reggie the dog]

413. at least i gave you a good laugh

i thought you were talking about me because of the shit storm that is going against me here.

my bad....

i hope you had a real gut buster :)

[Name removed]

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[polly7]

263. Except ...... he never said that at all. nt.

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[polly7]

271. Do you really think I'd have posted that if I hadn't read the comments?

You stated he said it was the case for all women.

Bullshit.

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[polly7]

292. I'm not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth. I never

said a word about you. Just pointing out what he did 'not' say.

[reggie the dog]

350. what did i say that is wrong?

my ex got lots of scowls for dressing french in the usa

my new girlfriend gets the scowls from women her age and up, but not from women younger than her that i have noticed

why are you poking fun at me? what did i say that is offensive?

[Dorian Gray]

296. Well

I think it's possible to take umbrage at both Reggie's obnoxious posts and your use of butterface. (And butthurt, whatever that means.)

I think that speculating that she was a butterface was catty and nasty. His insistence on how sexy she is, his ex is, and he, himself, is... well, that's just bizarre and sad.

And I don't think that we females are doing ourselves any favors by calling other women (or speculating that they may be) "butterfaces." It's usually an obnoxious phrase
that idiotic men use, and it makes me sad that women would throw that out at other women.

[seabeyond]

297. i had to look it up. i had never heard it used before

oh well, the nets. what an education i have received

[Dorian Gray]

373. Unfortunately

I learned all about it from the internets, myself. And immature guys I know in passing. It's really not a nice thing to say about a woman.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

298. +1000

[redqueen]

301. I took it as one of those 'response in kind' situations...

done with satire and wit. Flipping the script, if you will, for effect. And I'm one of those super overly-sensitive people who doesn't take that kind of thing lightly.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

451. I have little patience for games and facades

beyond that, I call em like I see em. I'm not pretending to be something I'm not.

[Name removed]

454. Deleted message

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[seabeyond]

465. are you accusing another woman poster as a sock puppet?

really?

sounding paranoid about all this. lordy, lmao

and my bad if that is not what you are suggesting a a couple posts i have read of yours.

[Warren DeMontague]

485. I'm not making any accusations about any woman poster, nor would I

especially, because, you know, everyone on the intertubes is exactly what they claim to be, even when they're using unique posting style phrases like "butthurt" in what they later acknowledge is a deliberate attempt at, and I quote, "script flipping". So, there is obviously some artifice and pretending going on, I suppose it's up to everyone reading at home to determine for themselves just how far that actually goes.

But for the record, I think the individual you're talking about has a gender of "undeclared". :shrug:

[seabeyond]

487. "nor would I" ya, you would and you did. forget merely a couple weeks ago? i am a sock puppet

for scout or vice versa. no quibbling on that and you followed me around a couple days saying just that. regardless of how stupid an accusation that was. glad to see you haev stopped making the accusation toward me, at the least

[Warren DeMontague]

504. I didn't say anything even remotely resembling that about you-- and "Scout"

go back and read again, if you must.

[Dorian Gray]

379. And I just hate the term

"butterface."

"Oh, she's got a hot body... but...her....face...." It is rude. And I personally don't feel like the poster who used it helps her argument by throwing it out there.

[redqueen]

386. Oh it is incredibly horrible.

One of the most shallow, misogynist things one can say in an incredibly shallow and misogynist culture, which says a lot.

I didn't think she was trying very hard to have a real argument. She, like reggie (he admitted it above) was playing/baiting/teasing. Whatever you want to call it.

There was a video posted upthread, 'Beautiful ladies in emergency situations'... it, if taken at face value, could be construed as horribly misogynist... but the comedian performing the song is parodying extremely stupid, shallow men. So in this same way, I don't think her posts were meant to be taken at face value.

Perhaps I'm misreading it... but that's my take.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

421. Neither did her use of the term "butthurt."

Both of those terms suck.

[Name removed]

443. Deleted message

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[Fantastic Anarchist]

481. Not everyone can backtrack like you've done.

;)

[Name removed]

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[redqueen]

455. It's not exactly rocket science.

And yeah, the response was sadly typical. Little to no notice of actual personal attacks... all kinds of drama over jokes, hypothetical situations, and pure speculation.

[Name removed]

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[reggie the dog]

351. please point out where i was obnoxious

i say that i have noticed women doing to my ex wife and current girlfriend exactly what this study says happens and i am obnoxious?

how is it bizzare and sad to then defend myself when people call us toad and butterface? really? people start saying i have a fantasy girlfriend meaning she is not real so i just inform them of what i have in life.

i guess that because we are fit and work out we must be a horrible asshole and a horrible bitch. we should just let ourselves get fat and out of shape so as to look like average american slobs i guess.

[Dorian Gray]

377. Reggie

It's great you think your GF is sexy and beautiful. That's how it should be. But you don't need to keep saying it to prove it. I don't think you're a bad person for thinking your Significant Other is sexy. I think it's strange that you feel the need to keep saying it over and over again. And then going into fetishes and high boots with short skirts, etc. (Not uncommon here in NYC, either.)

Look, you made a point in regard to the OP and the study. Then someone took umbrage at your phrasing about 30+ year old woman looking askance at your GF. (I'm a 40 Year Old Woman. I'm in that category. I probably wouldn't look twice at your GF or anyone else, though. It's not my thing to be super judgmental. I also wouldn't call another female a butterface. Also not my thing.) Then she attacked your GF, then you went on some mission to prove how hot you and your GF are.

I find how some topics veer off topic and end up in insane arguments amusing at times, but this time it just made me sad. And the more you try to defend your GF's hotness, the more insane the whole thing seems.

My 2 cents really means nothing, though. You do and say what you gotta do and say.

[reggie the dog]

397. good observation, i guess i fell into defending my girlfriends honor

or something like that. now that i think of it that is what really pissed me off.

[sibelian]

501. ...On an internet discussion board? Really?

Because, you know, it really didn't come across that way at all.

[reggie the dog]

514. what did it come across as?

people started talkin shit about my lady, butterface and what not, just because i said she is sexy.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

442. 40 Years old is hot and sexy!

But just in case people from other age groups feel left out, I think all age groups are hot and sexy.

There, I think I covered my ass. ;)

:loveya:

[reggie the dog]

347. what did i say about women?

i said i noticed women doing just what this study claims they do.

i never said all women were like this. never. i said i see this kind of shit all the time. but never said all women do it.

how is how my girlfriend looks any more or less important than how i look?

when my girlfriend buys me skin tight jeans and sweaters how is that different from me buying here dresses and skirts i like seeing her in?

i work out and show off my ass in tight jeans and my lady loves grabbing it, sometimes in public, how is that different from when i do the same to her?

where is the harm? what is wrong with me looking hot for my partner and her looking hot for me?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

299. If we would have done the same "jokey hypothetical speculation"

ZenaD would have been all over my ass, and then my butt would have really been sore. ;)

I guess that's what she means by "butthurt."

[redqueen]

303. Perhaps.

Perhaps she would have laughed at it, as she seems to be doing to most of reggie's TMI narratives about his sexual prowess and exploits.

[reggie the dog]

352. sexual prowess and exploits?

when have i talked about that kind of stuff?

saying i had a sexy wife and i have a sexy girlfriend is talking about prowess and exploits?

people posted that i had fetishes that i didnt have, so i filled them in on my fetishes.

all i did was agree with the op and say i had seen this happen to ladies in my life and people started talking shit, calling me a liar and saying "ok bigshot"

i am not a big shot, just a guy who can get sexy women to go out with him, nothing more, nothing less.

[redqueen]

356. How sexy you are, how sexy the women are that you manage to

catch the eyes of... how awesome your hair is... I used 'prowess and exploits' as shorthand to refer to that stuff. I thought it would be obvious what I was referring to. Mea culpa.

[reggie the dog]

393. ????

they called me a toad, i had to go into the details just to piss them off more without telling a lie.

[redqueen]

398. Did they?

I thought they merely countered with a hypothetical alternative that they might have done so.

From what I read, she didn't call anyone a butterface, nor a toad.

[reggie the dog]

406. you really need to read then

[Warren DeMontague]

315. She's engaged in deliberate script-flipping with the goal of challenging your heteronormative

gender bias. It's what's known as male gaze paradigm shifting consciousness-raising in a confrontational context.

Later, she's going to do a thesis on it. In crayon. On a cardboard box.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

460. Deleted message

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[Warren DeMontague]

461. I'm an artist, too. I appreciate works of art, even unusual ones

elaborate ones, that take time and effort to construct. Like building the man building the ship in the bottle.

just give me a number. Then I'm done with this thread, promise.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

480. Did someone say bush?

[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

483. Damn.

And ve vere so close to ze maaaaaajor breakthrough, zere. I coult almost veel it.



We'll try again next week.

[Name removed]

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[reggie the dog]

345. i didnt say all older women

i said i saw women from her age up treating her shittier when she wears mini skirts than when she wears baggy jeans.

she is fucking sexy, looks really hot in mini skirts and should not be subject to snark for that.

[treestar]

295. Reggie the Dog put his alleged girlfriend out there

Unseen, she could be anything.

[treestar]

286. Now there's a boast!

They do that to me all the time too!

[reggie the dog]

354. well then you know just what kind of shit my lady has to put up with

do you think that the results of this study do not happen in real life too?

am i supposed to never talk about my parteners because they are sexy looking?

i have commented on my girlfriend being treated shitty for being non white before on threads and no one thought i was lying when i said i am white with a non white lady.

here i say i am sexy and have a sexy lady and people jump all over me

WHICH PROVES THE PREMIS OF THE OP!

damn it i am not ashamed of looking good, i work out a lot do look like i do.

[seabeyond]

372. no, it doesn't. you are not getting it at all.

which proves my point.

you place so much, all importance on yours and the womans looks. that alone is obnoxious. and not cause anyone is jealous. but because, there are more to people than that. if you sole projection in the world is look at us as a couple. we are gorgeous and you are all jealous of how gorgeous we are.... that is what every look you receive will tell you. that EVERYONE is jealous of you.

do you get it?

people are not reacting to your appearance, or your womans appearance. it is you they are reacting to.

that is my point in al my posts. it seems to be attitude, more than appearance, that warrants reactions.

[reggie the dog]

515. my attitude?

i don"t say i care ONLY about looks. The woman needs looks AND a nice personality. if she doesnt have both i wont waste my time dating her.

i know many people are jealous of us, especially in the usa where over two thirds of the population has more flabby areas on their body than we do.

people on here want me to be ashamed of my good looks and those of my girlfriend. well i say they should work out and improve their own looks if they dont like the way they look instead of making me try to be ashamed of how i look.

when i see overweight and fat people i think "perhaps a gland problem but likely lazy, not motivated to work out, go hiking, or that kind of stuff, little or no self respect, little concern about their health.

it is a turn off

just like cigarette smoking is a turn off for similar reasons.


i want a partener i can do sports with, such a partner is in shape and that makes the sex sessions more atheletic too.

[Scout]

520. "i know many people are jealous of us"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Javaman]

524. I know, I didn't get passed that either!

:rofl:

[treestar]

463. It is better to be gorgeous and suffer jealousy

than to be not so attractive?

I would think so.

[sibelian]

502. It doesn't matter whether you or your girlfriend are sexy, reggie.

It doesn't matter at all.

[reggie the dog]

517. read the study cited here, look at peoples reations here

and then tell me i am not "punished" for my good looks as it my girlfriend. people scowl at us sometimes, especially in the states. people tell me stupid shit like "you need to eat" when i just have a normal waist with some ab muscles showing, big leg muslces from biking and regular arms. people want me to be out of shape like them so they can feel better about themseleves. for once i see a scientif study about these haters and i speak out about it and i catch hell for it.

[Scout]

521. poor, poor, reggie, persecuted for his beauty LOL n/t

[Javaman]

525. "don't hate me because I'm beautiful"

:rofl:

this guy is too much.

this thread has over 500 responces now. If it weren't for reggie it wouldn't half that long or nearly as amusing.

[Scout]

526. reminds me of the character in Breakfast Club played by Molly Ringwald

"but they look up to us"

:rofl:

[Javaman]

527. !!!

:spray: !!!

[snooper2]

27. The two women who refrained from making judgmental jabs, Vaillancourt said,

were "probably checking their BlackBerrys."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[redqueen]

34. Yes. Miss Vaillancourt is not "bitchy" or catty at all, though.

Really.

This is so craptacular it's not even funny.

[That1202Anarchist]

28. That's almost anywhere you go...

Almost everywhere you go, you see this type of behavior. And it's not just women, there are guys as well that act with that type of behavior. Although guys aren't as common with that behavior as women are... I'm not trying to sound bias towards one another nor am I trying to sound sexist, I'm just stating my opinion. Everyone is judgmental, that is just a part of life and that is just a part of who we are.

[Yavin4]

59. Men Engage In That Alpha Male Dominance Bullshit When They're in Groups

That's why they love to talk about their careers, their cars, money, etc. Even in the gym, there are guys that have to grunt really loud when lifting weights.

[reggie the dog]

88. in the usa this holds true

in france it is not like that, not mainstream culture anyways. talking about your career, car or money here is seen as rude in most social circles.

[toddwv]

29. Shocking.

Unless you've lived with any female over the age of 12...

[Poll_Blind]

33. It would have been more useful if Dr. Vaillancourt had not used the word "bitchy" in a...

...scholarly context. The word has no place in scholarly discourse. Period.

Passive aggressive behavior is passive aggressive behavior. "Bitchiness" is a gender-specific, loaded word.

You'd imagine being in the field of aggressive behavior that she would have shied away from labels like that. Whatever merit her study has is diminished by such associations.

PB

[redqueen]

36. I find the standards at the University of Ottawa to be suspect.

She's a professor of *psychology* there.

Speechless, really. This is how far this kind of **** has gone.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[Poll_Blind]

41. Agreed. I checked carefully to make sure that she was the one to inject that word and she was.

I could understand the press injecting such a word but not someone attempting to promote a scientific study. To give her the extreme benefit of the doubt, I was imagining scenarios where the reporter could have essentially asked her whether "shorthand" for the behavior could be described in 'laymen's terms' as "bitchy" and she agreed- that sort of thing.

Then I remember reading her comment which was something to the effect of "The two who didn't respond like this were probably checking her Blackberries."

I think the doctor needs to do some checking, herself.

PB

[redqueen]

42. I assumed that by using quotes, the journalist was being quite clear

about who chose that specific word to label the participants' responses.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

146. You make a good point. I did not catch that. n/t

[redqueen]

242. How in the everloving hell is it possible to not catch it?

This is an indicator of how bad things are, when such sexist slurs don't even register.

[reggie the dog]

355. hello, bitch is gender neutral

men and women are both called bitches

as in "who you dissin', bitch" from one male gangster to another male gangster

if i say about a women "what a bitch" and you say about a man "what a bastard" we have the same idea in our minds dont we?

[redqueen]

366. No, "bitch" is not gender neutral. (nt)

[reggie the dog]

383. for my entire life i have seen men call other men bitches

i am only 32, perhaps it was differet before i bacame aware of the world around me sometime around 1990 when i was 10

do women call other women bastards? no, bastard is gender specific. bitch is an insult for either men or women.

[redqueen]

389. What do you think the nature of the insult is, when directed at men?

What does it mean?

[reggie the dog]

391. if someone calls me bitch

i think it means that i am annoying them and that i just wont stop running my mouth. as a teen i talked too much shit and got into brawls because of it more than once.

[redqueen]

395. Right.

I'm just going to assume this is performance art.

I simply do not believe that anyone could possibly think it is gender neutral.

[seabeyond]

396. it is when men are being "catty like a girl" that men call each other bitches

or, i call my hubby a bitch. my bad, yes. reinforcing a stereotype of female and using it to insult his maleness. we do it in jest and recognize what we are doing. we do it in the sarcasm of the intent of he comment.

kinda like calling the boys girlie men.

we dont mean it. we understand the absurdity of using female to insult men. and we are saying it in an awareness when we use it.

[reggie the dog]

399. the simple fact that men are catty too

and merit being called bitch, proves that men and women are both catty and thus defuses the stereotype by proving that both genders can be bitches.

that is how i see it anyway.

[seabeyond]

402. and what you continue to conveniently ignore is a society that puts that on female only, hence the

term bitch when used on women. shifting it to female role, once again and always.

it is this pretending that reality is really not reality that i have a issue with.

my kids, my hubby can get it without having to defend society or pretend otherwise. i dont get why it is that hard.

[reggie the dog]

404. i know society is full of assholes

you and i both know that men and women are catty and that bitch really has no real roots in gender as it is a quality of both men and women.

assholes attribute the quality only to women in order to denigrate them

[polly7]

422. Ok ............... wth?

Didn't you post you called a waitress 'btch' while dining with your husband?

[seabeyond]

425. how does that make my post a WTH?

what does that have to do with what i posted?

[polly7]

429. You don't like the term when used against women, yet you do it yourself,

and then ask 'what's so hard' about it? I don't call anyone a bitch, I try not to name-call period ... you're sending out mixed messages with this.

402. and what you continue to conveniently ignore is a society that puts that on female only, hence the

Edited on Wed Nov-30-11 02:37 PM by seabeyond
term bitch when used on women. shifting it to female role, once again and always.

it is this pretending that reality is really not reality that i have a issue with.

my kids, my hubby can get it without having to defend society or pretend otherwise. i dont get why it is that hard.

[seabeyond]

436. ya, so.

i get that. and as i say, i understand exactly what is being said, the definition and the usage of it.

it is was done in a chuckle the same manner that i will use on hubby, as i said in that post. or girlie man. it is not done without the understanding, knowledge, of what exactly i am doing. that is my point. in my family, we all understand what is going on in the usage.

i dont pretend it is not gender specific. that is what my issue was with rtd and what i addressed in that post.

[polly7]

447. Ah, ok .... I getcha. As long as one understands it's gender specific.

it's fine to use bitch and other demeaning names in gender-specific situations. Sounds f'ed up, to me .... but then I don't claim to understand the reasoning of any other.

[seabeyond]

466. take note

every time i mention it, it is within the family. i thought about your post as i went to pick up the kids. now, let me throw this in first. i try hard to be upfront and straight and honest in posts. there are people that really have no interest in my posts but to throw a jab. if i am remembering correctly, your posts have always been negative to me. but i do take seriously what people say, whether they like me or not. that being said.

i dont ever name call in anger. not me. not who i am. never. when i am serious or whatever.

in joke, yes, at times i will say something to hubby like

you are such an asshole.
what a bitch.

depending what he has to say. we are joking. i would never be angry at him and say, seriously, you are an asshole. ever. not what i do. i discuss the issue

make of it what you will.

[polly7]

468. The waitress was part of your family?

I haven't been negative to you, I've questioned your double-standards, as you appear to question the standards and morals of nearly everyone who replies in one of these threads. I take seriously what people say, too ... maybe that's a mistake.

[seabeyond]

470. do show me where i said bitch TO the waitress. i would NEVER do that.

maybe you ought to go back and read the post. i dont know where it is or not. but no, i have never called a person a bitch. ever.

you know i did not call the woman a bitch.

what did i write in the post.... i told my hubby, bitch. she doesnt know who is leaving the tip.

making clear i did not call the waitress bitch. now i gotta believe you are playing games.

[polly7]

473. No, I don't need to play games.

seabeyond (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-29-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #74

83. i was gonna say more in the attitude. i didn't see the video, but was she throwing sexuality out

there along with the more skimpy clothes. and it doesn't have to go with sexy clothes. i have a few times had a waitress using sexuality for a tip totally covered up. btch, i say to hubby. unfortunately, she does not know who is doing the tipping.

i have read the replies and thought about my own reactions. young, older, jr league'r... i have met gorgeous women and some turn me off immediately. some not at all. more to do with attitude they are projecting than looks.

[seabeyond]

472. "btch, i say to hubby." i pulled it up in case you dont want to bother.

i think it was pretty clear that i didnt say

"btch, i say to waitress".

don't you?

she doesnt know who is tipping.

thinking pretty clear i am NOT talking to waitress but talking to hubby.

i see how seriously you take it

[polly7]

475. I didn't say you were talking 'to' the waitress. You appeared to have

called her a bitch for appearing too sexy. If it was your husband you called a bitch, you could have just explained when I first asked about it instead of answering the first two times with 'how does that make my post a WTH?', and 'ya, so?'

Done playing your stupid game.

Carry on.

[seabeyond]

478. really, reading comprehension issue. i was making the point that it is not about dress

it is about attitude. the waitress was totally covered up. she used her sexuality to try to get a bigger tip. didnt fly.

my point was, it is not in the dress or attractiveness. i dont remember how attractive she was or not. i do remember her behavior. i believe it is in the attitude, behavior.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

446. Relax ...

I just skimmed over it ... I didn't read the whole thing word for word.

I think the world is safe ... for a moment.

For what it's worth, if I had read that part, I would have thought that, at the very least, odd if not the study itself suspect.

Hope that is somewhat of a relief for you.

[WildNovember]

45. I think the study doesn't show what the researcher implies it does.

The subjects judged themselves most likely to be friends with the conservatively dressed woman rather than the thin or fat sexily dressed women -- who were actually the same woman.

So it's not about looks or body shape. It's about the subjects' judgement of the woman's personality/intentions/etc. on the basis of dress.

White university women judge a woman dressed like that is doing so for men's attention (since that's the standard of their "culture") -- and that's generally a correct assumption in that university/young middle-class white setting.

In another setting, if the usual dress was equally scanty, that wouldn't be the assumption and the results would be different. So it's not really about dress either. It's about the subjects' judgement of the intentions of the woman and her willingness to play by societal rules.

[jberryhill]

47. Many people only hate me because I am astoundingly attractive

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reggie the dog]

357. if you have the same problem as my girlfriend

and know it exists THEN WHY DID YOU MAKE FUN OF HER FOR HAVING THIS PROBLEM!

fucking hell you people blow my mind on this site sometimes.

so you really just dont believe that my girlfriend is as sexy as you are.

unbelievable

[seabeyond]

375. you really dont read people well. i believe they are all .....

joking.

[msanthrope]

488. I think the poster's avatar might explain some things. nt

[gkhouston]

98. But fortunately, Herman Cain has always been a perfect gentleman to you. n/t

[treestar]

288. Me too! It's a real problem!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

48. I worked with a woman who was just mercilessly sniped at for her looks...

...by other women on the job. She was a model/actress, but she didn't flaunt it and she was genuinely very nice. The other women would ask me "C'mon, you don't think she's a big phony?". I said no, and maybe if you were nice and polite to her you'd know that.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krabigirl]

182. Same here. She was the sweetest woman also. The women were just awful to her.

We are still friends to this day :)

[treestar]

290. I thought she was going to be unattractive

Maybe they get oner it in high school. It's the girl who is less attractive that gets trouble for her looks, too. All sorts of comments, depending on what the flaw is.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

471. Sure, that happens too

Usually the good looking new girl gets a chance to prove herself by falling in line with the clique. If she doesn't, then she's cast out. the unattractive never have a chance.

Maybe I've been watching too many teen movies.

[Broderick]

49. I use to work in a office with about 30 women

I have no clue what this study is about. /sarcasm

[PassingFair]

66. "Dressing Sexy"

There's no room for that in the work place unless
you are a stripper or a waitress who works at a
place like Hooters.

Just as you wouldn't wear a bikini to WalMart (I hope),
you will wear appropriate clothing to work.

Thigh-high boots and miniskirts are NOT appropriate
in most work places (although they could be in some).

I was once working as a receptionist at a sales
office when a woman walked in for an interview. While waiting,
she spent an inordinate amount of time on her make-up,
and even "hiked up" her breasts in FULL VIEW of myself
and another receptionist, as if we were not even there.

After she came out of the interview, I warned the boss not to hire her,
but he did.

She turned out to be a psycho who did permanent damage
to our office and wrote crooked contracts. We use her
name as a VERB to connote a contract that is submitted
by paying the deposit yourself.


If you dress to elicit a sexual response, don't expect
to be taken seriously, and don't think you won't be judged
for exploiting your body to "get ahead".

Seriously.

I genuinely feel badly for young women who are hated on
simply because of their youth and beauty.

I was fired from many jobs when I was younger
because my "superiors" were jealous of my looks. They were
all crap jobs though, so I didn't really care. I always
dressed appropriately for the job.

There's enough actual sexual harassment going on in the workplace
without people displaying their secondary sex characteristics
indiscriminately in a bid to sell themselves.

[reggie the dog]

107. knee high boots and mini skirts are fine

even for teachers and students from jr high up. fashion is different here in france

[JVS]

493. Being "appropriate" can be difficult, especially when one considers that women's work clothing...

has never been as well defined as the mens' business suit.

[PassingFair]

497. It's not too hard to figure out, and it's relative. My two daughters dress differently.

My oldest always keeps her bits covered.

My youngest, well, lets just say that she's
been sent home from school a few times, and
I agree with the teachers!

She went to school this morning in a mini skirt
and a bustier. I'm not kidding.

She was wearing an open sweater over it, and
I made her put on a scarf, but I know it will
come off as soon as she gets to school. She
likes the attention, but she knows not to come
crying to me when she gets sent home.

[Blue_Tires]

494. That of course is relative depending on where you are

Latin America generally seems to give the most leeway to 'sexy' business attire...My uncle worked for an insurance megacorp in Miami, and "thigh-high boots and miniskirts" would be considered 'dressing up' at his office (he said it was a constant tug-of-war between management and female employees over the dress codes)...

[Lyric]

71. Probably some kind of primal jealousy.

God knows I feel a stab of envy whenever I see a woman who's gorgeous, sexy, and curvy. I think we tend to dislike them (at least until we get to know them) because they represent the beauty standard that the rest of us are judged by, and found lacking. It's not an easy thing to look at someone and swallow the bitter truth that no matter how smart and capable and talented you might be, you will never be considered as "desirable" as the girl across the room who has perky boobs, sleek hair, perfect skin, long legs, and an hourglass figure. When they dress "sexily", it just makes our own inadequacies all the more prominent.

We are only human.

:shrug:

[ehrnst]

74. Partially - but it could also be that a woman who's "putting it out there"

and dressing for straight male approval reinforces so many stereotypes about women and power.


If it's not a club or beach or party scene, she's displaying passive/aggressive power, instead of direct power.

She'll get the attention in the room, not the person with genuine contributions.

[redqueen]

77. That would be much more often the case IMO.

If the woman is just attractive, that's one thing. That's not what this 'study' was about, though.

[reggie the dog]

359. i saw the 3 photos

you have 2 normally dressed women in knee high boots and skirts, which is what lots of women, if not most, wear here in france, and another women in sort of dowdy looking baggy shit that does not let you see her curves.

i know that when i dress baggy i dont look as sexy for the ladies as when i wear form fitting clothing.

what is wrong with people wanting to attract other adults sexually?

[redqueen]

381. LOL... your characterization... hilarious.. truly.

Are you doing performance art here? Cause really... characterizing the sexy clothes as 'normal' and the normal clothes as 'dowdy looking baggy shit'...

un.

fucking.

real.

Nothing is wrong with people who like to dress in sexy clothes. It's the CONTEXT that matters. Dressing sexy at a club? On a night out? Normal. Dressing sexy for work? For a doctor's appointment? For school? Not normal.

The fact that you have somehow got the idea that dressing in sexually revealing clothes is the default speaks fucking volumes.

[reggie the dog]

388. no, mini skirt and knee high boots is normal where i live

i live in the california of france, the riviera,

my american friends are blown away by all the fit women in skrits here.

now at the club, hell the club is risqué

plus we have plenty of full on swingers clubs

women dress like women here in France, as well as in italy from what i have seen.
in italy women did a pants strike by wearing pants and berlusconi had to give in in 3 days, change the policy propasition, and apologize to the women of the country so they would "no longer deprive italian men of one of the pleasures of life, seeing their beautiful legs". the women literally had the country by the balls.

the women ended the strike. most women like feeling sexy just like most of us men do. there is nothing wrong with that at all. i go out of my way to look sexy for women. i like doing it. i like seeing women "check me out".

un fucking real. come visit the med any time from march to november. hell even in winter lots of girls wear skirts here.

you probably think i am horrible because after bike riding and getting all dirty and sweaty, i sit on a bench in the town square and eat a snack and, oh the horror.... look at the pretty women walking around!

as if you have never done the same thing, you have never enjoyed simply looking at the gender of people you are sexually attracted to walking around?

[redqueen]

403. Your posts are starting to make me feel physically ill.

This is nothing to do with fitness, reggie.

"women dress like women"
:puke:

"apologize to the women of the country so they would "no longer deprive italian men of one of the pleasures of life, seeing their beautiful legs". the women literally had the country by the balls."

Just stunning... breathtaking... you actually think women in Italy had any real power, because of that.

Un.

Fucking.

Real.

[reggie the dog]

407. i just had a good laugh

yes women had power, they got whatever fucking law changed that they wanted

women can get abortions in italy and the fuckin pope lives there

women try to look feminine here in southern europe.

they look like women.

so its not supposed to be a pleasure for men to look at womens legs?

you mean you never look at our asses? our pectorals? our bicepts? our thighs??? our calves?

really?

my girfriend tells me to dress like a man, not a barbe a papa (cartoon like a mr patato head type character)

like a man means tight pants and tight fitting shirt. she loves that kind of stuff on me.

[seabeyond]

408. so, if a woman wears pants, she no longer looks like a woman. my job is to show my legs

for YOU, so I can feel like a woman.

right?

[reggie the dog]

411. just as my job is to show off my ass for womens pleasure

i do my part.....

[seabeyond]

414. i dont live in your world. never wanted to live in your world. no, that is not what i see my role

as a woman is. and yes, even in pants, i am still a woman, well aware of it, and really, pretty sad if you are truly that shallow to recognize.

your posts make me sad.

all of life is not about our sexuality. there is a time and place. when i went to university, if i thought the professor saw me as his sexual fantasy while teaching me, instead of a person, looking to be educated, i would have considered him a creep. to many old men projecting just what you suggest onto young women. i didnt see it complimentary.

[reggie the dog]

417. i dont see the women as a sexual fantasy

i just see them as pretty and dont go into it any more than that.

i look at all my students as people to be educated.

i am still young enough that some of my students hit on me from time to time but i never accept the advances.

when i say i look at women that is what i do, i dont fantasise and get a hard on or anything like that i just look, like looking at a pretty sunset or something. i dont give any preferential treatment or anything of that sort.

i always think my girfriend is sexy, if she is in sweatpants and a sweatshir or in one of her mini skirt outfits

she looks more feminine in the skirt outfit though.

[seabeyond]

423. having a skirt at the crotch is not about femininity. it is about sexuality. there is dress

that is much more feminine than skin tight, short skirt and low cut top.

and femininity along with sexuality is as much in the attitude as dress. and that knowledge has to do with the original study we have been diverted from, and what many are simply not understanding. i WISH our young girls new the difference between femininity and their sexuality.

[reggie the dog]

426. knee length or longer skirts are sexy too

and tops that cover more.

as are tops or dresses that show off shoulders or backs.

skin tight is cool too, it is just that not very many women in the usa like skin tight due to flab (like their male american counterparts)

[seabeyond]

427. not very many women in the usa like skin tight due to flab

are you fuckin series11!!!!111

when was the last time you were back in the u.s.

lmfao.

and please, dont even continue suggesting there are not plenty of hot americans of both gender. that is just stupid. really really stupid. and offensive.

and still

i feel, that you ignored the post of femininity and sexual. two different animals.

[reggie the dog]

430. there are sexy people in the usa

lots of sexy women were tiny tight jean shorts, i see them all over when i am back in the states

[seabeyond]

438. yes... sexy.

they were sexy. you keep using sexy as a description to these women. never feminine. sexy. always sexy. they are sexy in short, tight and low. sexy.

not feminine.

hence

my point

[reggie the dog]

518. feminine is sexy to me

i am a heterosexual male, feminine is sexy, i am attracted to feminine women, they are sexy to me.

[seabeyond]

83. i was gonna say more in the attitude. i didn't see the video, but was she throwing sexuality out

there along with the more skimpy clothes. and it doesn't have to go with sexy clothes. i have a few times had a waitress using sexuality for a tip totally covered up. btch, i say to hubby. unfortunately, she does not know who is doing the tipping.

i have read the replies and thought about my own reactions. young, older, jr league'r... i have met gorgeous women and some turn me off immediately. some not at all. more to do with attitude they are projecting than looks.

[seabeyond]

84. another thing that makes me roll my eyes, especially with younger women/girls. actin stupid.

again, she may interpret it is because of youth or beauty, but the bimbo act will get rolling eyes and the inevitable comment about embracing stupid, every time.

bugs the shit out of me.

(that includes my two older nieces, until i made it clear stupid nauseates me and isnt acceptable).

[krabigirl]

186. I don't get it. I don't feel jealous of prettier women, or those who dress "slutty".

I think I must have a defect. I just really don't care and don't feel the need to compete. I am happy with how I look, even though it certainly isn't perfect.

[reggie the dog]

360. i am the same with other men

i am sexy, but other men are sexier than me and i really dont mind that at all.

[Zorra]

73. Huh.

I don't get it.
:)

[reggie the dog]

90. this reminds me of a student i had before at the university

she was trilingual, spoke french, russian and english. she was georgous, 19, russian and in france. she dressed the part of the sexy russian exchange student complete with ultra short fur mini skirts. hell she invited me to a photo shoot with her in milan which i refused because i was married.

at the end of the semester when grades were talked about just about all the female staff had harsh words for her yet the woman was truly trilingual so i really dont know what problem they had with her english. her grades were good yet tons and tons of harsh words. they were jealous of her looks. on the other hand, the male staff were jealous of 3 male students who already had a successful t shirt business and had made themselves quite wealthy.

[seabeyond]

93. so... a young woman who asks a married man to come out and play is not well respected

by other women. lol

ok

[redqueen]

95. I know, right?

Like, why would all those mean nasty ole wimminz hate on this fine-ass specimen of a tri-lingual super smart and super sexy Russian hottie? She was really nice and sweet, aside from the whole inviting her much older married teacher on trips thing. And really, how is that a big deal? It's ridiculous! Like that's any indicator of, you know, character or something.

:eyes:


I am so far past sick and tired of seeing women's looks being made a priority by default. Then again superficiality is embraced passionately, fucking everywhere. My misanthropy grows by leaps and bounds daily.

[reggie the dog]

105. much older? she was 19 i was 25

[redqueen]

109. You're doling out the relevant details much more slowly

than you are the purient ones.

So it was six years, and not five, and not more than six. It matters little. The fact that she was inviting a teacher on a trip would rightly be perceived as an attempt to garner favorable treatment. It's why most places have rules about that sort of thing. Surely you're not so oblivious as to not have thought of that already. But I suppose the assumption that 'all those older wimminz was just jellis' is ever so much more popular, societally speaking.

[reggie the dog]

111. she was 19 and 20 during the school year

i was 24 and 25 so it is really 5 and a half years difference

I know the rules, i can legally have sexual relations with my adult students here in France. I cant really blame her for hitting on me. she is not the only student to have ever done that. i am good looking and more mature than the young men in their classes. i was attracted to some of my university professors because they were more mature than the young women in my classes.

[reggie the dog]

96. she didnt know i was married

and once i told her that i was she never hit on me again

and she was only 5 years younger than me at the time

[stevenleser]

112. You both made the assumption that the offer was public knowledge. nt

[seabeyond]

114. no, i didnt. a woman who hits on a married man is likely to have a

certain manner to them that i doubt she kept under wraps.

look, i dont know htis girl from adam. i dont know the situation. i dont know shit. i do know that the poster is speaking in fact when there could be other reasons.

how do we know he was not the first or the last. we dont know shit.

i, at least, know i dont know shit

[stevenleser]

236. your incorrrct generalization aside, Reg notes she didnt know he was married nt

[redqueen]

115. And you both made the assumption

that you know why these other women weren't gushing over how awesome this student was.

[reggie the dog]

118. right, she did it after class, no one knew but me.

my collegues had no idea she invited to pay all my expenses to go to her photo shoot in milan. nor did they know i refused

[lumberjack_jeff]

142. And you're making the assumption that Reggie was the only teacher to whom the offer was made.

[stevenleser]

217. Nope. Im simply not assuming a woman who likes one man

Who happens to be married is necessarily promiscuous.

[WildNovember]

233. Funny, ain't it? And regardless of whether she knew he was married,

I'd look askance at any student who invites their teacher to go on a trip with them.

I'm sure it happens, but...I'd look askance.

[stevenleser]

272. That is a cultural thing. In France, that is not taboo. nt

[WildNovember]

484. I don't care. I'm talking about power relations and the perception of bias by powerholders.

not France or "culture".

And in fact, I don't believe that it's standard practice for French professors to go on little get-aways with *one* of their students. Casual socializing with students generally isn't the same thing as taking trips with one *special* student.

[stevenleser]

496. That power relationship doesnt exist there because male-female relationships are different there.

Again, this is your cultural bias.

[WildNovember]

500. i'm talking about the power relationship between professors and their students.

which *does* exist.

nothing to do with men and women, the same would apply to a gay prof and his/her student.

maybe it's *your* bias which is showing.

[Name removed]

257. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

266. that is funny.... nt

[Warren DeMontague]

400. ...the invisible penises that pursued me all across Europe at the behest of the Illuminati Phallic

Space Patriarchy, finally caught up with me. After 30 hours of ritualized Satanic Abuse, I finally made it back to my hotel, where I wrote my 20,000 page manifesto on how smashing all cultural gender norms once and for all would finally stop the CIA from communicating with me through my dental work, and allow me to get all these invisible microscopic bugs off my skin.

[Upton]

418. Obviously, you're in need of some sort of sensitivity training..

how dare you mock the late, and most definitely insane, Andrea Dworkin and her follower's attempts to impose their will upon the rest of us..

Sex is bad..mkay?

[seabeyond]

428. link to ONE poster that has EVER said sex is bad.

you keep saying it. no one else besides your buddies say it.

ONE poster that has ever said sex is bad

ONE

just ONE

come on big boy. back up those words. you use them enough. show us what a man you are.

ONE post.

[Warren DeMontague]

433. Awwwww

who's "butthurt" now?

[seabeyond]

467. again, you interpret incorrectly. i am asking the poster to name ONE person that says sex is bad.

since you also readily say posters who dont agree with you say sex is bad, you too can show ONE poster that has said sex is bad.

it is calling out a lie.

nothing to do with the butt. hurting or otherwise.

though i do like the definition much better than what i was thinking it meant.

[Upton]

441. Feeling defensive?

You and the usual suspects have also claimed you didn't want to censor images, preferring to call it "education" instead. Then, yesterday, we had a thread in which your partner the Gooner called for a ban on degrading images of women in the media..How do you reconcile statements such as that with your continued claims that you and your own buddies aren't advocating for censorship?

[seabeyond]

469. where is the defensiveness you are talking about calling out a lie. if posters continually

say duers say something, and NO duer has ever said it, then, it is a lie.

what is there to be defensive about?

i didnt notice on the thread yesterday me saying squat about restrictions. and i know we werent talking about porn which is the subject of bans. so sounding like you are getting things mixed up.

because you have made a mistake and i point it out, is that me being defensive? i think not.

[Upton]

477. You're the one who is mixed up..

I specifically said I was referring to your partner.. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2393248&mesg_id=2393309

And yeah, I consider anyone, who in the context of sex, whether it be in the media or in the bedroom, that calls for the banning of activities she doesn't approve of to be anti sex..

Now, if you'd like to distance yourself from the comments made in the post I linked to...be my guest.

[seabeyond]

479. you are the one that makes me partners. you are the one that ties us together. so, i am not allowed

my own thoughts and opinions? i am responsible for everything every other person thinks and expresses? really? i cannot think differently from another person? what a fuckin joke.

you can think whatever the fuck you want, but it doesnt make it a reality.

you want to go around being stupid in your own world of expression, stating lies, then that is your business. but i dont have to pretend along with you, that it is a reality.

the reality is, there is not ONE poster that has ever said sex is bad and you are blowing smoke out of your ass.

[treestar]

289. You really do attract the best females!

You must be rich!

[seabeyond]

294. nah... in france the women dont care about money. only the u.s. nt

[reggie the dog]

367. men and women in the usa care much more about money

than do men and women in France, or most of the European Union.

the usa has greedier people concerned more about money and bling than we do.

do we have greedy shitheads? yes. but not nearly as many by percentage of the population as you do in the usa.

i have had 3 sexy ladies in France (i prefer long term relations) and i drive a shitbox car, live in a tiny 2 room shack, and dont even make 20 000 us dollars a year.

try doing that in the usa.

[reggie the dog]

364. that you think that shows how shitty the usa is

i hit on sexy women in the usa (where the percentage is lower than in france simple due to there being less in shape women in the usa by percentage than in france) and many turn up their noses and wont even talk if i say "hmm i never had the mango fro yo here before"

whereas in france the chit chat goes on. i dont know if it is my accent that they love here in france or what but in the usa and france i rarely dress like someone with money because i only earn 14,000 euros a year (20 grand in dollars or so)

in the usa women have asked me, on dates, how much money i made, how big my investment portfolio was (really)

in france it is more like, "what do you like to do for fun, what hobbies do you have" and later on "do you know how to use your "portfolio" "


If you think it is not easier for poor men to not only get sex from, but get sexy women to be their girlfriends in france then you obviously have not lived here in france for long enough.

[MadrasT]

101. In other news, water is wet. n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

138. I'm male, but I would have loved to be a part of this study!

:evilgrin:

[hedgehog]

174. ""When women present themselves as being sexually available,

it compromises the power-holding position of the group,"


Maybe when women present themselves as sexually available, other women are annoyed because it's an inappropriate place to make such a presentation?

Maybe the other women laugh because they perceive the sexily dressed woman as a fashion victim?

I recall an office where the 40 something secretary dressed in tight clothes. I couldn't believe it the day she showed up wearing a lacy camisole under an open jacket! That may be the fashion elsewhere, but this area is pretty conservative. Most of the employees were male, and it was widely assumed that the secretary was having an affair with the boss.

[JI7]

201. this seems more about guy's fantasies, the women who talk about other women like that

are usually very attractive themselves. but they see certain ones as trying to get ahead by being a more "sexy" or whatever.

and most women who may not be as "hot" especially where the body is concerned are not jealous of others. in fact most are complimentary of the others and say they would dress more sexy if they had that body.

the whole jealous crap is just male fantasy.

yeah, there is jealousy sometimes but it's usually among those we know. like a friend might end up getting a boyfriend and the other friend might feel some jealousy. this is usually because they might not hang out as much and the friend talks about the boyfriend a lot. and none of this has anything to do with looks or other superficial things, it's more about a change in relationship.

i know guys are making up shit when they say the jealousy is among the older ones and not the younger ones. most women regardless of their level of "hotness" care less about these things as they get older.

also most guys don't give a shit either. and of course women learn this as they get older.

[redqueen]

238. Well said.

It strikes me as very sad that such things somehow aren't obvious to most.

[treestar]

464. [phone]

[animato]

208. Many women are extremely bitchy and cutthroat

Anyone who has dealt with competition between women for men or at the workplace knows women are no better than men when their interests are on the line.

Sometimes they are less collegial than men, imo, but men can be more brutal.

[seabeyond]

209. of course women are no better than men. we are all people. that is all. nt

[JoeyT]

215. It may have also just been a reaction to inappropriate clothing in a situation.

I'm sure if I wandered in dressed the way I do for work no one would bat an eye. If I wandered through in a speedo I'd draw gales of laughter.

It's all about context.

[Blasphemer]

234. Not much of a study and Vaillancourt leaves a lot to be desired...

The two women who refrained from making judgmental jabs, Vaillancourt said, were "probably checking their BlackBerrys."

Seriously? There are those of us who, having witnessed this sort of judgment from very young age, choose not to participate. I remember my mother and aunts spending far too much time judging the appropriateness of clothing worn by other women especially if, heaven forbid, the woman was deemed "too old" for the clothes she wore. And daring to not wear a bra or a girdle? Heresy! I think this is a cultural issue that should be addressed in an academic setting but this study and its promotion seem a bit too sensationalistic.

[Prometheus Bound]

235. I taught one class of twenty 20-to-21-year-old women this semester.

Three, in particular, were extremely attractive and came to every class in very short shorts, which happen to be very common at this university. They were usually among the last three to enter the classroom and I noticed the other girls would always stop paying attention to what I was saying as their eyes followed these girls to their seats, and some continued to look out of the corner of their eye at two of them who always sat up front but separately.

On the final day of the semester last week, these three particularly attractive girls, in short shorts as usual, came in together for the first time, and five minutes after class had started for special effect, and all three sat in the front row together. All conversation stopped, every eye followed them to their seats, and even when I started talking, it was a couple of minutes before I could get the usual eye contact back.

I was so dying to ask them, what are you thinking? Everyone in the room knew what was happening, but I just didn't get it. (I'm a man and of course I pretended I hadn't noticed a thing.) What was happening there? Admiration? Jealousy? Shock? Indignation? I just don't know.

[seabeyond]

307. i have been thinking about this post

putting myself in the class. the students probably saw these girls around much more than you. and knew them better, and their behavior and attitude.

walking into the adult world of responsibility

you do the studying. make it to class on time out of respect to the teacher and other students. yet, there are three girls playing the game for attention. any other student, late here or there, gets a breaking of attention from teacher, to look. and they can get back to the teacher, once they look. but the inevitable game playing of these three girls, interupting class, putting on a show in entering, a total disrespect and in the students mind, getting away with it because they are attractive. not cause they warrant it. not cause it was a legitimate reason for being late. but a game

i could see both genders being a little pissed off at the sense of entitlement because of their looks and games. and it probably did not end in your classroom.

just a thought.

if you had actually called the girls on this behavior of disrespect, you may have seen/learned something else about your student. like a sense of vendication and justice.... and maybe the students would be able to let resentment go and you would not have seen the same reaction when they entered late

[redqueen]

309. Excellent insights.

I would have thought that with this behavior being so consistent, something would have been said. None of my professors were anywhere near that tolerant... and that's just with a few instances, let alone consistent behavior.

[seabeyond]

314. i guess one might ask why, this teacher/professor allowed the continued disrespectful interuption

and merely watched the reaction of the students, pondering... why? they were reacting as they were.

did he allow inappropriate disrespectful behavior merely because these girls where attractive and wore revealing clothes allowing that very privilege to stand and allowing resentment to fester? reinforcing wht the other students preceive ... correctly?

[Prometheus Bound]

321. What a horribly mean-spirited reaction.

They were not disrespectful in the least.

[seabeyond]

341. pondering. thinking things thru. i dont know how you can conclude it

horribly mean spirited. you asked. i was thinking it thru.

[Prometheus Bound]

323. You really missed the point of the post, didn't you.

Your assumptions are mean-spirited and uncalled for.

[redqueen]

326. What assumptions?

I simply made an observation about the difference between the way classes are apparently run there, and my experience.

Please tell me what exactly was it about my post that you found "mean spirited" and "uncalled for"?

[Prometheus Bound]

333. You accepted the assumptions of the previous post with your comment 'Excellent insights'

And then, instead of responding to my question, took me to task for being so tolerant, accepting her assumptions about sense of entitlement and so forth.

You missed the whole point in your eagerness to find a way to criticize me.

[redqueen]

342. Victim complex much?

Given the dearth of details in your original response, her insights were fine.

As for me looking to "find a way" to criticize you... perhaps you should consider not taking things so personally.

[Prometheus Bound]

353. I'm asking for insights into this situation, and what do I get?

I'm writing a short comment on a discussion board, not a short story. How can I anticipate all the questions of the sometimes unusual people reading these posts? If you want to know more, ask. Better than making unfair, critical assumptions like this:

1. "a total disrespect and in the students mind, getting away with it because they are attractive. not cause they warrant it. not cause it was a legitimate reason for being late. but a game"

2. i could see both genders being a little pissed off at the sense of entitlement

3. if you had actually called the girls on this behavior of disrespect, you may have seen/learned something else about your student. like a sense of vendication and justice.... and maybe the students would be able to let resentment go and you would not have seen the same reaction when they entered late

4. I would have thought that with this behavior being so consistent, something would have been said.

5. None of my professors were anywhere near that tolerant.

6. i guess one might ask why, this teacher/professor allowed the continued disrespectful interuption and merely watched

7. did he allow inappropriate disrespectful behavior merely because these girls where attractive and wore revealing clothes allowing that very privilege to stand and allowing resentment to fester? reinforcing wht the other students preceive ... correctly?

[redqueen]

358. Off-base would be accurate.

Horribly unfair and critical? Don't see that, myself. Much less 'mean-spirited'. That, to me, is way out there.

You have a point about asking for details... but I don't think it justifies your reaction.

[Prometheus Bound]

318. No, that definitely wasn't the issue.

It was an all-female class.

It is quite common for students to be five minutes late. And they weren't disrespectful in the least. They apologized politely each time. Many others in the class were late each week, but weren't given more than a glance by their classmates. They are given 10 minutes between classes, but some lecturers always keep them for that 10 minutes, so they have to run sometimes from one end of the campus to the other and it can't be done in a minute or two. No lecturer regards this as disrespectful.

I'm amazed that you can make such assumptions without first asking for more information. Quite mean-spirited.

[seabeyond]

343. read your post. you set it up exactly how i took it. as a game. the girls doing a show

entrance. YOU made that post appear as it did and when YOU didnt get the conclusion you want, YOU change the whole scenerio in feel.

i thought you really wanted someone to think this thru and give you what they felt might be going on. it appears what you really wanted was for posters to say, ya... all those girls in class are catty bitches.

wow.

i actually thought about the scenerio you presented on and off until i posted.

ha ha. what a hoot.

[Prometheus Bound]

368. I also asked whether it was admiration.

It could have been fascination. I just don't know. But trust me, it certainly wasn't sense of entitlement, blah, blah. There was no possibility that the other students felt these three were getting different treatment. They were always among the last to enter the classroom, but there was almost always at least one person that came in after them who didn't get a glance. There is no point in criticizing every student that comes into the classroom late here because it is almost always the fault of the previous lecturer. These three were fine students, and respectful and humble. Their short shorts are very common at my university, so they were not necessarily showing off.

[seabeyond]

380. then as a woman

even when i was young, you got me stumped. never felt that, and never saw that. that is some kind of awesome that these three girls are around the other girls all this time, all girl environment, and everyone hasnt gotten use to, desensitized with the others appearance. it doesnt make sense to me, as a female.

[reggie the dog]

371. isnt teaching at a university great

i love looking at the sexy women i teach, i never ever hit on them even though that is legal where i live but looking is one of the simple pleasures in life.

[Prometheus Bound]

385. Dear reggie,

The ethics squad will be along shortly to call you names.

[reggie the dog]

390. i know, i dont care

looking at adult women is nothing to be ashamed of even if they only are 18 to 24

[redqueen]

401. God damn those pesky ethics!

Why can't people just let lecherous people enjoy their lechery?!

[Prometheus Bound]

405. lecher: (Middle English, from Old French) to lick, to live in debauchery

a man given to excessive sexual indulgence; a lascivious or licentious man

You're letting him off a bit light, aren't you?

[redqueen]

415. Am I?

Or are you being sarcastic?

To be honest I can't really tell just at this moment. When someone makes a comment like "women dress like women" in all seriousness, I honestly just want to throw my hands up and give up on thinking things will ever change.

[Prometheus Bound]

424. Yes, I was being sarcastic.

:)

I'm sure you don't really think reggie the dog is a lecher.

[redqueen]

435. I think you need to read more of reggie's posts...

and also realize that your quoted definition doesn't mean that's all there is to the word. There are more definitions, not all so narrow.

[reggie the dog]

509. j'aime bien lécher ma copine

which means that i just love licking my girlfriend

the other girls in my class, never.

[lumberjack_jeff]

495. I don't always drink either, but when I do... it might be Dos Equis.

I guess this qualifies as hating too. Whatever.

[lumberjack_jeff]

498. They aren't in your class. You are in *their* class.

You wouldn't put up with chronic tardiness from Vinny Barbarino, Juan Epstein and 18 of their peers.

The underlying social disruption was about the competition for your attention and favor. You don't get it because you're the football. You're not supposed to understand.

[malaise]

247. One of my nephews was telling us that

attractive women are always let into night clubs over 'overweight' women and men control the entrances.

[reggie the dog]

374. and men with more bling pass right in

over their poorer looking peers.

it demonstrates that society stresses looks for women and money for men.

it is total bullshit but i saw that working valet outside of night clubs.

[Rex]

260. This study brought to you by

NO SHIT.

[LanternWaste]

267. I imagine this is much like the nerds jealous of, and then projecting inadequacie

I imagine this is much like the nerds jealous of, and then projecting inadequacies onto the jocks in high school...

We get pissed off at those standards (whether given by Madison Avenue or not) we fall short of, and since we can't yell at the standard or ourselves, we yell at those who achieve the standards.

[seabeyond]

268. i think so. and i dont think it even has to do with not liking who we are, but

tht standard decides better, not what we even personally feel is better.

i think a lot has to do with beyond the looks..... i dont think it is as simple as this study made it out to be. for wanting to delve into the psychology of it, it was really shallow and empty.

much like the projected model, lol

[treestar]

291. It definitely brings out defensiveness

At least on those less self actualized.

We're all worried about that and it is Madison Avenue that exploits our insecurities.

If we think of other people as humans to relate to, rather than thinking of them as competitors for the attentions of the opposite sex, it would probably make us much happier.

[treestar]

274. More complex than that, I'd think

The older generation would originally have had to protect the younger generation from a sexist society.

I don't think it is pure jealousy. There's an element of group solidarity too - stand on your accomplishments and not your sexuality.

Like most human behaviors, it's complex.

[JNelson6563]

302. Frankly I don't care what others wear.

But it can be funny how things play out. I know a gal with an extremely curvy figure who has whined a great deal that many believe she gets places in life, as it were, due to her being "pretty". Hmmm.

Considering every single day she wears low cut pants that clearly display what color lace thong she is wearing that day and very low cut shirts only, well I doubt the talk is due to her being "pretty".

She asked for advice on the matter and I suggested she leave the sorts of underthings she's wearing to the imagination as she was taking a very big job. She seems to have taken the advice.

Julie

[seabeyond]

305. my niece has the low cut blouse with the push 'em up adn out bra.

she bitched to me that some guy was staring at her breasts. and she is wearing a ring, by gosh, and had her two yr old with her. doesnt he get it, she yells.

um.... i am staring at your tits, and i have absolutely no want of you girl.

just amazing

[reggie the dog]

378. and for years i have honestly thought that women dressed like that

just so we would stare at their tits....

if she is not doing it on purpose then her subconcious has been polluted by something

ads? culture in general?

[seabeyond]

392. yes it has. she grew up in a home where the environment was

not stable. a lot of shit went on in that house that reinforced certain behaviors adn perceptions that as a young 20 she has to figure out now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

499. Attention.

It's win-win. I attract attention if a guy I like stares at my boobs.
My howls of righteous indignation attract attention when a guy I *don't* like stares at my boobs.

[polly7]

304. I had a friend, growing up, who was absolutely, stunningly, beautiful.

Unfortunately, she came from a violent, abusive home and because of that, had 0 self-confidence. Many of the girls at school, parties, even playing ball and hockey seemed to really hate her ... yet, she was sweet and kind. When we get together now and have a drink or two, she still gets sad about it. They reminded me of vultures. Once they saw how emotionally fragile she was, it just went on and on. Yes, they were jealous, cruel and to this day I can't stand looking at them for more than the time it says to say hello. Bullying hurts no matter what the reason is .. and jealousy, imo is a HUGE factor in it.

[Ikonoklast]

332. I just wanted to drop in and say...

"This thread is AWESOME!!"


:woohoo:

[seabeyond]

348. it is

a cute one in many ways....

[apocalypsehow]

382. From the second I spotted this thread, I could sense the heat coming off it. Click in to it, and its

flametastic! :mad: :smoke: :rant: :pal: :nuke: :beer: :argh: :party: :grr: :grouphug: :scared: :dem: :banghead: :hi:

[redqueen]

384. This is one of those areas where society has a LOT of issues yet to be worked out.

And unlike... say... racism, this stuff isn't quite so well understood.

So these topics always deliver like Domino's!

[Warren DeMontague]

394. Hmmm. I think these threads tend to function more like a garment factory

if you ask me.

[Name removed]

458. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

448. It goes both ways, and it has always been so

I wish I knew how to rake in the dough for studies of the "duh" variety.

Men do it to the BMOC, and chicks do it to the hottie.

I thought I was doing this earlier this week when I took offense to a science teacher wearing a low-cut, off the shoulder sweater while appearing as a contestant on Jeopardy. I really checked myself... but I realized that I was truly insulted because of my respect for the game. Sexy won't win a daily double.

Funny thing is, the next night she was wearing a turtleneck sweater! LOL!!! We decided we weren't the only ones upset over the overexposure.

[Book Lover]

476. Wow - women suffer under a patriarchy. Who knew? (nm)

[JVS]

489. My office is overwhelmingly female and I'm not so sure about this.

Most of the time conflict between my office mates was centered around failure to perform some duty or just having a generally unpleasant demeanor toward others. For example one person was just generally pissed at the world and giving negative vibes for a month.

I suppose if someone had started acting like a real bimbo/sexbomb it would have gotten negative reactions, but I'm pretty sure if one of the guys had started acting like Fabio or The Situation we'd also have held him in contempt. On the other hand, I once had to distribute some free tshirts and there was only one small left. I didn't expect giving the small shirt to the smaller person to cause the ruffled feathers it did, but I was able to smooth things over.

[seabeyond]

490. you called them fat. you just flat out called those women that got medium, ... fat

i can not believe you would be so insensitive jvs. wow.

teasing.

and thanks for your post. i pretty much see it the same. being female and hanging amongst female. but i didnt hang with girls/women that were solely focused on their sexuality as the be all, end all. pretty much just people getting thru a day.

[TwilightGardener]

492. There's a difference between sexy and pretty. Overtly sexy in an inappropriate context

will get you ugly looks from the other ladies. But being simply attractive and well-dressed usually leads to better treatment by just about everyone, male and female. Good-looking appropriately-dressed people are always well-treated, IMO.

[defendandprotect]

503. Truly -- all our problems on this planet are due to women and their aggression -- !!! ROFL

[Warren DeMontague]

507. too bad we can't leave.

curse you, James Van Allen! And Your Belt!!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

508. This Winning Thread Is Winning Because It's Winningly Full Of Winning Win-ness in the form of

[LoZoccolo]

510. Maybe this thread will get a thousand replies. n/t

[seabeyond]

511. nah. it is just a man being a bitch.

:sarcasm:

[Warren DeMontague]

528. you said it

[cherish44]

516. Ya know we sexy people have it really hard

There are so many people who just hate us because we're beautiful. :p