Many trade unions have programs to ensure a standard of quality. Do the teachers' unions have this?

[LoZoccolo]

[bettyellen]

1. my friends who teach in NYC public schools teach english with no texts at all in rooms so crowded...

that the school is braking the law for occupancy limits. and the rules for class size.
you really think they'd do better because a union tests them?

[LoZoccolo]

2. It depends on what the test would cover.

Right now I'm looking for the test.

[TBF]

4. Are you talking about Praxis -

http://www.ets.org/praxis

[TBF]

3. Which specific trade unions and what kind of programs? It's hard to compare when you give zero

details. There is a proficiency exam - as far as I know teachers are licensed to teach for the public schools (ironically they are not for private). In some professions such as legal and medical there are exams for practicing, and ethical boards that oversee the profession. Is that the type of thing you are talking about?

[LoZoccolo]

8. Apprenticeships, continuing education, that sort of thing. n/t

[bettyellen]

24. oh, well i know there are additional levels they do coursework and get accreditation for it in NYC

but their main obstacle remains the schools are way overcrowded, falling apart, have no textbooks and are unprepared to cope wth so many porrly educated, at risk kids.
My friend works 12- 14 hours a day, and weekends. It's never enough.

[TBF]

38. That is not an answer. Student teaching, continuing education -

and these are folks that have college degrees and often additional degrees, as opposed to a certificate in welding.

Which other trade unions and professions are you comparing them to - please be specific.

[speltwon]

10. Licensing is not quite the same thing as proficiency exams.

Personally, I think that teachers that teach a subject should have to have (for example) a minimal score in an achievement type test in the subject. For example, I tutored (no license required) physics in college. I scored very high on physics achievement test. I think any teacher that teaches (especially a hard science) like physics, etc. should have to demonstrate a baseline of knowledge in that subject.

I don't think that's too much to ask. I think it's a positive thing, frankly. As a teacher (and I do a lot of teaching, but I do not work as a SCHOOL teacher), I *want* to know if I have knowledge gaps, etc.

[TBF]

11. That would obviously make sense, but are you willing to pay for that level of proficiency

when salaries are already being questioned?

[speltwon]

22. Yes I am. I think those go together

I would demand more, but I would say society needs to provide more to teachers as well - in benefits, etc.

[bemildred]

5. Will this do?

http://www.aft.org/newspubs/news/2010/041510standards.cfm

I am having trouble figuring out what "ensure a standard of quality" means, and how that would be something a union does. Do you mean a test, or surveillance, or training, or what?

[TBF]

6. I've been trying to figure out if the OP means to enter the profession

or continuing education? (and exactly what in trade unions he is comparing it to - and in which trade unions).

Unfortunately no answers from the OP so I can only take that to mean he/she is trying to discredit teachers in general, when the truth is that there are standards for entering the profession (and more education than many trades), continuing education, etc...

[bemildred]

7. Well, I was hoping to elicit something more explicit.

:-)

[LoZoccolo]

9. Yes, this is the sort of thing.

Thank you.

[bemildred]

12. In California, it goes sort of like this:

Five years of college in an accredited Education program, than a year of teacher training with a master teacher, which you have to pass. Then there are continuing education requirements and reviews etc. to keep your credential. It is simply a lie that teachers cannot be fired for cause, and it is unsound thinking to consider that it would be a good thing if teachers could be fired casually or without due procedure and the protections that unions provide.

[liberal N proud]

13. Trade unions such as pipe fitters and electrical workers provide certification

Most unions do not provide training and other standards programs.

[sufrommich]

15. The IBEW has an extensive apprenticeship program.

My ex was IBEW and worked with many apprentices.

[Leopolds Ghost]

16. Yeah, isn't that the school board's job?

[HubertHeaver]

26. No, the only real power the school board has is to hire and fire the

superintendent. Everything else they do stems from that.

[HubertHeaver]

14. Teachers are educated in a state-certified

college which administer state-certified teacher-training program. They (the teachers) then must take a certification test to earn the teaching certificate.

The answer to your question is "no, teachers' unions do not have a teacher-training program."

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Yes AFT has an award winning research based PD program

I believe NEA has one as well.

[Snoutport]

18. I have to have a masters, I must take 3 hours of class a year...

I must meet with a mentor teacher with scheduled meeting times, meet weekly with my supervisor, monthly with my team (speech, behavior, occupational therapist, physical therapist) have a yearly review that includes goals for the upcoming year and a meeting to see how that progress is going, I meet monthly with co-teachers on the county level to share resources and information, i have to take update classes and recertification in blood born pathogen training and first aid, I am trained and have recertification trainings for proper holds for physical restraints and this includes training and updating in methods to de-escalate violent students and next month I have a two day training for curriculum and have had several earlier in the year. All of the teachers in my dept meet monthly with all the supervisors to go over any new rules or to address issues to advance our knowledge and education.

Oh, and all the updates and meetings about new federal and state paperwork. Can't forget the joy of those.

Those are the minimum requirements of my district in the contract agreed to with my union.

On top of it I buy books and educate myself, I meet with other teachers to go over their best practice, and then I write my own curriculum, often, and go over that with the members of my district's educational teams. This curriculum is then posted on my district's website to be shared with other schools in the city, state...well, the whole planet, really.

I make $41,000 a year, after taxes and student loans and my class my take home is just under $2000 a month, I usually spend $100 a month or so on my class. I was a finalist for teacher of the year last year and was named one of Bank of America's Neighborhood Heroes and my district's foundation was given a large financial prize for the honor.

Anything else you want to know about what a teacher does in a typical day, month, year? I'm open for questions!

[walldude]

19. Yeah but do you meet the "standard of quality"?

:rofl: Sorry, couldn't resist, the OP is a bit.. vague... Welcome to DU.

[Snoutport]

23. LOL! NO! I don't yet! I have one more year as a probationary teacher.

To get my license though I did have to do a term as a student teacher. That's why TFA makes me so mad! I had to pay graduate level prices to be a student teacher and TFA teachers only have to go for five weeks?!! Do they even pay for the five weeks training?!

Just crazy that to be a "real" teacher it costs a fortune but to be some sketchy five-week untrained teacher you get to do the job basically for free.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[LoZoccolo]

31. No, I wasn't.

I suggested nominating Lieberman in the primary for strategic reasons, even going so far as to state that I would rather have Lamont in the office. After the primary, I wanted Lamont to win, but criticized his grassroots supporters again on the basis of strategy: their framing of Lieberman as a Republican was only serving to advertise him to Republicans, which it did. It created a situation where pro-life voters were voting for a candidate with a strong pro-choice voting record.

My opinions are still documented and can be easily found by using the DU search facilities to search for posts authored by me from the 2006 election season that contain the words "Lamont" or "Lieberman", and I invite anyone with doubts to look them up for themselves.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[demmiblue]

25. That should just about cover it!

:rofl:

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[groundloop]

20. I believe a better question is how in hell we're going to attract and retain qualified teachers....

When they're only paid a relatively modest salary to begin with.

When state governments are ignoring class size limits in order to trim budgets.

When teachers continue to be the 'whipping boys' of right wingers attempts to cut governments.

When teachers face more and more discipline problems and get less and less support from parents.

I wrote my tea-bagger state senator and complained about my kids not having text books they can bring home to study, and asked what our state was going to do about education. His response was that he had a plan - (drum roll please) - he's going to hold teachers accountable. Who the hell is holding our state accountable for not giving edecuators the resources they need, and not paying them what they're worth? I used to have a notion that I'd like to teach high school science after my kids were through college and I could afford to quit my engineering job. I've given up that idea, there's no way I'd put up with what teachers have to.

[tekisui]

21. .

[Canuckistanian]

27. They certainly do in Canada

Teachers regularly have "Professional Days" where they take seminars, training courses or presentations.

All sponsored and managed by the various teachers' unions.

Don't they have anything like this in American schools?

[Hannah Bell]

28. the role of the teachers' union is to support its membership. the role of districts & localities

is to set performance standards & ensure the people they hire conform to them.

[LoZoccolo]

30. This has not been the case for all unions.

Some skilled trade unions use a standard of high-quality work as a bargaining chip in negotiations.

[bemildred]

32. It is always the case that a union's first duty is to represent the interests of it's members.

In the same way that it is management's duty to represent the interests of owners. The union is NEVER rightly in an adversarial relationship with its members anymore than management is rightly adversarial to the interests of owners.

[LoZoccolo]

33. It doesn't serve the union members to come to the table with diminished leverage.

Also, when I was a member of UFCW they were actually the ones who printed the material warning cashiers to observe the laws regarding sales of liquor to minors. Is this warning adversarial?

[bemildred]

34. I'm just saying that the union is never out to get the members, that is not its job.

It exists to represent and support its members. One may well construe the interests of the members broadly and consider the common interests members have with management or the public, but it is always from the viewpoint of the interests of the membership.

It is primarily the government's job to regulate professional qualifications in the public interest, that is what government is for, to represent the public interest.

It is management's job to judge the quality employee's performance, indeed they get quite huffy about being dictated to in that regard.

[walldude]

41. Maybe you should just say what you really mean

this beating around the bush is lame. How about you post your facts about how many teachers you feel are unqualified. That seems to be what you are getting at.

[LoZoccolo]

43. I don't say that because I don't know how many are unqualified.

And it wasn't my intention.

I just think they'd be in a better position if they offered this, and it's not unheard of in other unions and/or professional societies.

[walldude]

44. Well none of this is about the "quality" of teachers

There are a ton of "real" reasons for this attack on teachers and unions, none of them have to do with the quality of teachers or the quality of union workers. When you use the right wing talking points as a jumping off point you have already lost. Educate yourself on the real reasons for this attack on labor. Google is your friend.

[LoZoccolo]

45. Even if it isn't, they could disarm the talking point if they wanted to. n/t

[walldude]

46. How do you disarm a lie?

Are you saying teachers should have more requirements for their jobs because Republicans lie about them? So do you think that Obama should find his real birth certificate since they are lying about that too? Or how about we revamp the health care bill since they are lying about that? Where does it end? Are you willing to take on more responsibility if someone lies about you? Just so they can come up with a new lie when you counter the old one?

You don't "disarm" a lie by pretending it's true.

[LoZoccolo]

47. You prove it wrong?

But they don't have to if they don't want to. I'm not a teacher, nor do I have any children. But if (some, definately not all) want to complain very vocally about any metrics or standards that the government wants to impose on them, and not offer any of their own that they can demonstrate are fairer than the government ones, and think that the parents will be OK with that and not push back, and that they'll eventually get what they want if they do that, then they can try that. It's up to them.

Obviously, other trade unions do this for a reason, and professional societies do it too, but if teachers don't think that those reasons apply to them, and can get others to see that, then I guess that they've successfully defended the reputation of their profession in a good-enough fashion.

[Hannah Bell]

40. bullshit.

[TBF]

42. Wisconsin has typically shown it's results in having high SAT scores -

In the first study I pulled up on Google Wisconsin comes in 8th out of 50: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

Looks like high-quality work to me.

[Capitalocracy]

35. They advocate for smaller class size and other education issues.

They're probably the number one voice in real, effective policies to improve education.

[WinkyDink]

36. We get college degrees, like other professionals. In PA, we need more than Bachelor's for

permanent certification (not "tenure").

So what's your point?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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