The 'disturbing' third grade quiz about killing illegal immigrants (Georgia School).

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.ethicsoup.com/2011/03/horrible-third-grade-quiz-suggests-killing-illegal-immigrants-.html

It's very disturbing that yet another American social studies teacher has allowed racist and anti-human rights suggestions to be admitted into the classroom and influence students.

WHAT IS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN?

This time it was in Duluth, Georgia. A social studies teacher, at Chesney Elementary, gave third-graders a homework quiz based on a story called "What is an illegal alien?"

The lesson included a multiple choice question which asked: "What does the U.S. do with illegal aliens?"

Here are the possible answers:

A. The U.S. puts them to work in the army;

B. The U.S. shoots them into outer space;

C. The U.S. puts them to death;

D. The U.S. sends them back where they came from.

You can watch the video news report here:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/education/2011/03/30/romo.illegal.immigrants.homework.cnn?hpt=T2


Edited to change link to CNN

[Shandris]

1. ...I'm not really seeing the problem here.

It's not the CORRECT answer, it's just as silly as answers A and B. It's not suggestive of a policy, it's not trying to frame an opinion on what SHOULD be done with them (any more than A or B are, incidentally).

She was disturbed and contacted the local NBC affiliate? Are you fucking kidding me?

"Heyyyy...this question is a bit wonky for some indeterminate reason, but I'll bet this shit'll fly on NBC!" *ring*

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Even suggesting those as possible 'solutions' to 8 year olds upsets me.

[snappyturtle]

4. Me too! nt

[blondeatlast]

6. Agreed. nt

[Dr. Strange]

8. The question isn't listing possible solutions to illegal immigration.

It's asking what is actually done. And if I were the teacher, I would probably want to keep that answer, because I'd want to know if any of my students believe that that's what we do with illegal immigrants. And if they did believe that, I'd ask them where they got that idea.

Edit to add: I would get rid of the "The U.S. shoots them into outer space" answer though, because that's just stupid.

[hfojvt]

24. too much to ask to include the correct answer

The US allows most of them to work low paying jobs, makes their children citizens, gives them in state tuition, provides services in their language, and years later grants amnesty making them all citizens.

[Hissyspit]

25. Yeah, those illegal aliens. They have it so great.

[eomer]

26. Where they got that idea would be from you!

If you wanted to find that out, could you think of a way that doesn't plant the very idea you're hoping they haven't got?

[Dr. Strange]

46. That doesn't make any sense.

They've never been taught that we deal with illegal aliens by killing them, it's not in any of the literature they read in class, they're not hearing it from their friends or family, but they see this answer on the test--the first time they're hearing of using murder to deal with illegal aliens--and you think they're going to say, "Yep, that's how our country deals with them."

What exactly is the thought process that leads you to think that the kid taking the exam is going to choose that answer if it's the first time they've ever seen it?

[driver8]

3. You don't see the problem, here???

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Lochloosa]

27. Really? Just edit and say you forgot the little sarcasm thingy.

:sarcasm:

[LanternWaste]

42. I'm rather sure you don't see a problem.

"I'm not really seeing the problem here...."


After having read many of your posts... no, I'm rather sure you don't see a problem. :shrug:

[Shandris]

52. If you're going to raise aspersions to my intentions or my posts...

...then by all means do so. Don't play cutesy with little gifs and insinuations, implying something about my posts. I'd suggest perhaps posting something substantial or offering an apology. You might consider beginning with what, if anything, about my posts strikes you as so telling as to whether or not I would see a problem with a factual question.

[Zephie]

5. Uhm, WHAT?!

I would be OUTRAGED if I saw that in my kids school stuff. I hope this teacher is severely punished.

[Shandris]

10. And people wonder why so FEW people want to be teachers...

Shitty pay, the Union is getting torn up, and parents who aren't capable of understanding what a SUGGESTION is and is not. I'm truly boggled by these responses.

[blondeatlast]

12. The choice might be appropriate for a high school quiz, but not

for third graders. I'm curious as to how your child might react to this?

[Shandris]

13. I would like to think my child would be intelligent enough to realize...

...that it's a question, not cause to call up a media outlet. Sure seems savvy as to 'what to do' for someone who is such an innocent child as to be 'horrified' by the presence of a QUESTION. Dear God, let's hope she never looks out her window on Halloween, we might have a 24 Hour Faux News Special.

[blondeatlast]

14. Well, excuse this mom for realizing my son could tell the diff between Halloween

and a disturbing choice on a multiple choice quiz.

Silly of me to be concerned. :eyes:

[Shandris]

23. Indeed.

:roll:

[Snoutport]

34. the difference is not about you...it is about condoning SHOOTING people for being foreign

[sinkingfeeling]

19. The young lady who called the news is an elder sister of a third grader. She is about 18.

Why should we be indoctrinating 8 year old kids with ideas that some of their school playmates are 'illegal' and then suggesting our government might be shooting them or sending them into space or something?

If you had bothered to view the video, you'd know that the school and school board believes the 'lesson' was inappropriate and are looking into what action to take.

[Shandris]

22. Now I'm inclined to agree here.

The lesson ~as a whole~ doesn't seem to be very good. The lesson as a whole probably was inappropriate, for the reason you name. However, the lesson as a whole was not the point of the thread.

However, regardless of whether I 'bothered' to view the video (I didn't, and don't, care to watch every conceivable video posted when the article expresses the situation clearly), I don't need to know what the school board thought in order to draw my own conclusion based on the facts at hand.

[Snoutport]

35. Try putting more facts in your hands before you condemn and this won't happen.

Lots and lots of facts to look at. Try some!

[Shandris]

53. Wait, what?

What fact did I overlook? I repeat, what FACT did I overlook?

I said the LESSON (not what the post was about) was indeed poor. I said the singular selection on the question wasn't a suggestion. And who the FUCK did I condemn?

[Snoutport]

33. What about the other kids? Maybe they aren't as intelligent as your child

And what about the Latino kids in the classroom?

In my entire time in teaching we have NEVER been allowed to reference shooting people. EVER. It is not done.

[blondeatlast]

40. You have the VERY mistaken belief I condone this. I don't--

not in the least. I've been on the forefront of immigrant (documented and otherwise) rights in Arizona for a VERY long time.

[Snoutport]

50. My Apologies!! These were for the comments up above.

My Apologies! I meant these for the person who made the original Halloween statement! I am really sorry. I totally agree with you--I was just worked up at the person who was defending the test and didn't realize I was on your thread.

Let me know when you read this and I'll ask them to lock. :0( I will be more careful in the future.

[blondeatlast]

51. No worries!

:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Not only are the suggestions offensive, but the teacher forgot the

only suggestion that will work in the long term--

E. Levy confiscatory fines on any business that hires illegal immigrants.

[Shandris]

9. Now hold on.

Did people not read the article? These are NOT SUGGESTIONS! The question asks what IS DONE WITH, not 'WHICH OF THESE DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE WITH'!

Where the hell does 'suggestion' come from? If a multiple choice question asks whether the moon is made of cheese, are we 'suggesting' that it is, or should be?!

[JoePhilly]

30. By including these options, the teacher is suggesting that they are POSSIBLE approaches.

These are 8 year old kids, not adults.

These kids have no point of reference on such things. As a result, the choices provided SUGGEST that the other alternatives (regardless of how an adult might view them) are POTENTIAL approaches.

The least disgusting choice ends up being the right answer. The GOAL is to teach these kids that we ought to "send them back where we came from" because that is better than "killing them" outright.

Its fucking disgusting.

[Snoutport]

36. I got your back on this one Joe!

shooting people is not an option for 8 year olds...

[JoePhilly]

43. Thanks for that ... I have a 3rd grader, and if she came home ...

with this story ... well, I'd be having a "conference" with that teacher and the principle.

The teacher's intent is pretty obvious.

[Shandris]

54. See, I would 100% agree with you, and the vast majority of the posters...

...in this thread (except for the one jackass who thinks he has some 'inside' knowledge of me) if the question was something to the effect of 'Which of these alternatives would be the most humane to deal with illegal aliens?'. That's a bad question, right there. BECAUSE it does EXACTLY what so many are saying: that example would be suggesting killing as an alternative, or making them slaves of the army (I can't believe no one has been upset about that one, incidentally...I mean, if you're going to misread one answer, why not the other one that's virtually as bad?), and would ~easily~ be read as 'suggesting'. But the goal isn't to teach the kids what we OUGHT to do about anything: the question is 'What DO we do with them?'.

Feh, to hell with this. It's a basic question, and from me saying I didn't see an outright problem with a fact-based question, I've suddenly become a 'defender' of the question, the lesson, the SUGGESTION of killing aliens, a supporter of racist teachers, a RW troll, and who knows what the fuck else. On the bright side, I think I've conclusively proven that a Popularity Rating can indeed become negative.

Edit: To Snoutport, on the off-chance he/she reads this post. The article never mentions shooting them. /sigh

[Lance_Boyle]

11. The question is not problematic.

Much ado about nothing, IMO. Incorrect options in multiple choice questions are sometimes designed to be obviously flawed, and that sort of test question design seems entirely appropriate to third grade.

[JoePhilly]

32. Do you think 8 year olds see the other options as "obviously flawed"?

I don't.

I suspect that the teacher is trying position "sending them back" as a better alternative than "killing them outright".

Its sick.

[Lance_Boyle]

44. Really?

Yes, I think even 8 year olds know full well that the US does not shoot illegal aliens into space, or kill them. That makes those very obviously incorrect answers.

[JoePhilly]

47. I have a 3rd grade daugher ... and if a TEACHER suggest that as a possiblity ...

she'd be unsure.

To help, kids at that age know almost NOTHING about the government or how it works, or what powers it has. They generally do know that police shoot bad guys.

And so when a teacher sets up the "illegal aliens" as the criminal ... it is a very small step for a 3rd grader to assume that, YES, the government (via the police) can kill illegal aliens (bad guys).

[jwirr]

15. The word aliens makes this lesson even more disgusting. My 4 years

old is forever fighting aliens - one of his grandmas is a scifi nut. He started this when I was babysitting him and the he saw the dust particles in the air as the sun shown through the window. He has been enlisting all of us to help him fight the aliens - particles of dust ever since. Equating immigrants with aliens is to play into a child's imagination.

[Lance_Boyle]

17. Please. 'Aliens' is the appropriate term for non-citizens.

There are legal resident aliens and there are illegal aliens. Any confusion with science fiction should be easily avoided by taking into account this magical thing called "context."

[jwirr]

18. Okay - I give!

[Snoutport]

37. context...like teaching 8 year olds killing is an option of choice

[JoePhilly]

48. Its also a term that makes killing them more agreeable.

I mean, its not like killing an actual person.

[LibertyLover]

16. My daughter is 8 years old and in 3rd grade -

if she ever came home with a homework assignment like this, I would be furious. She is adopted from China and I'm sure that some idiots might think she came here illegally and should be deported or maybe shot into space or killed.

[gratuitous]

21. See? You're overreacting

Gee whiz, how many 8-year-olds would be influenced by obviously wrong choices on a multiple choice quiz? I mean, that's just silly talk, that's what that is! Besides, before doing any taunting, I'm sure the other 8-year-olds in her class would carefully check to be sure of your daughter's immigrant status, and none of them would indulge any mean-spirited xenophobia once they ascertained the truth. And, if any 8-year-olds did do such a thing, no one could attach any blame whatsoever to the teacher's quiz. That would just be out of bounds!

[Snoutport]

38. what if this teacher uses examples like this all year long...that wouldn't influence the kids?

really....you think that a teacher, the most important person in an 8 year olds life aside from family, has no influence? That just because they give a better option the lesser options carry no meaning or impact? You are 100% sure that not a single one of those 8 year olds didn't, in their mind, picture shooting a foreigner when they read the question.

This is indoctrination of the young to hate other humans. Period. I'd like to see the rest of the lesson plans that the students were working on the weeks before the test so we could see how this teacher got them prepped to have the information to know how to deal with foreigners.

[gratuitous]

39. Hmmm. Note to self

Buy sarcasm detector for Snoutport's next birthday.

[blondeatlast]

41. I'll pitch in... nt

[guitar man]

20. I'd be interested to see

the results of the quiz. it could be very telling...

[struggle4progress]

28. Slow news day at CNN?

It's not a very well-crafted quiz, but it's not exactly national news either

[WatsonT]

29. E. Nothing, pretend they don't exist

[Snoutport]

31. UNACCEPTABLE!!!

As a teacher this makes me pretty $*$&$& @#*$%# #%&#%(#&% mad!!!!!!

[EthicsConcerned]

45. RACIST TEACHERS

Hey, the Ethics Soup blog you linked to originally has more articles about out-of-control, racist teachers. Two different teachers had classroom 'role-plays' to teach about SLAVERY. One teacher picked two black girls, bound their hands with duct tape and made them crawl on floor under desks, so they'd know how it felt to be on a SLAVE BOAT:

http://www.ethicsoup.com/2008/12/teachers-ethics-lesson-dont-bind-black-students-to-teach-slavery.html#more

Another teacher tried to make a 10-year-old black boy to play a SLAVE, but he refused:

http://www.ethicsoup.com/2011/03/black-10-year-old-student-refuses-to-play-slave-for-teacher.html

And then there's the teacher who let the kids wear KLU KLUX KLAN hoods and robes:

http://www.ethicsoup.com/2010/05/history-teachers-ethics-lesson-just-say-no-to-kkk-hoods-robes.html

To see other teacher posts on Ethic soup you can click on the EDUCATION category.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. What in the hell!!!!? nt