Would you fear for your life if you burned a Koran?

[boston bean]

Poll question: Would you fear for your life if you burned a Koran?

[Swede]

1. Only if the whole world new.

:shrug:

[boston bean]

11. That's an honest answer. Let's say the whole world was going to know.

You made the 6 oclock news burning a Koran in support of free speech.

You were burning this Koran for no other reason except that you were protesting your governments restriction on speech by limiting or passing laws against burning a Koran or any other holy book.

[Swede]

52. There are a billion Muslims.

Some are fanatical. These fanatics killed a film maker in Holland,and are after a cartoonist in Denmarck. Why poke the bear?

[Drale]

2. I wouldn't be burning a Koran because

I respect others beliefs.

[boston bean]

Might you burn a Koran as a symbol of your own beliefs, like freedom of speech? nt

[Drale]

4. Nope because there are other ways to use my freedom of speech

[boston bean]

8. Ok, but if you did, would you be fearful for your life? nt

[Drale]

10. No I don't fear death

If your to die, theres probably nothing you can do about it.

[Drale]

6. Nope because you should never do something just because your allowed to do it

I would never burn any book, no matter what it contained.

[boston bean]

9. you might not, but do you believe others shouldn't, just because you wouldn't.

[JoePhilly]

3. Why am I buring the Koran?

Am I pissed at Muslims and trying to attrack attention to myself to sell my book?

Am I in a mountain cabin with no heat during the dead of winter trying to stay warm?

The context in which I take such action might actually matter.

[boston bean]

5. Well you have politicians now wading into this and it's not falling on the side of free speech.

So say the reason is for free speech.

[JoePhilly]

16. Should have put that in the original I suppose .... how about this ...

What if, I wrap a Koran in an American Flag ... but I don't tell anyone at first.

But then, when everyone gets mad at me for burning the American Flag, I point out that the Flag in question was damaged, and so I was disposing of it appropriately, but used the Koran, not as a protest of free speech, but as an added flammable element.

Burn the Koran, burn the Flag, burn pictures of Reagan, or Lincoln, burn one's bra ... burn what every you want just so long as you follow local and state fire codes.

Having said that, personally, I think it is stupid to burn anything as a way to piss off others. Can you? Sure. Does it make you look smarter, knowledgeable, more authoritative, more patriotic, more righteous ... so on .... NO ... you just look stupid.

[boston bean]

18. The question was would you fear for your life.

[JoePhilly]

24. Not much more than if I burined an American flag and Tea baggers found out.

I guess you could ask if I'd fear for my life for being an abortion doctor in some parts of the country.

[boston bean]

26. Do you think you should give into the baggers and we should ban flag burning and abortion? nt

[JoePhilly]

36. Nope, not at all.

But it is smart to know who you are dealing with, and also consider who gets hurt by your actions.

My friend who decided to stop writing OP-EDs did so because he did not want his kids hurt.

Abortion doctors and their families often get security protection.

The nut burning the Koran, he knows what kind of reactions are possible, and he knows that he is not likely to be impacted in anyway, and that others will. And have been. He has his free speech, and people he does not know are now dead.

Personally, I'd pay for first class tickets to send him on a Christian Mission to spread Jesus' love across Afghanistan.

But I doubt his belief in Jesus is strong enough to make the trip.

[boston bean]

Think about this as a free speech issue. i can almost guarantee you will see more

burning in protest of our politicians flimsy defense of the first amendment.

And if they try to get law passed to limit free speech, then the shit will really hit the fan.

[JoePhilly]

41. That is a ruse.

Burning the Koran in the US has never been a topic of "free speech" concern.

You want to prove you have free speech, burn a BIBLE and wrap it in a US FLAG.

NOW THAT would be a free speech statement ... and THAT would be a better example for your OP.

[boston bean]

46. I think you think it's a ruse because you cannot logically come to grip

with what you say you believe and what you are typing here tonight.

I have applied no ruse.

A koran was burned in America, Harry Reid wants hearing, Obama condemned it and Lindsay Graham thinks free speech is good and all, but we're in a war.

Not a hearty defense of free speech from our leaders.

[JoePhilly]

48. I think Harry wants a hearing about the beheadings ... and Graham is a nut.

There are multiple events at play.

An idiot burned a Koran. Not because he wanted to demonstrate free speech, but because his intent was to piss off extremists.
At no time was that idiot "afraid for his life" (the premise of your op).

Then, members of the UN were murdered violently in what "appears to be" a response to the actions of the idiot. I say "appears to be" because there is some dispute about the circumstances of the murders and what the precipitating factors were.

The notion that the Senate, which has an oversight role regarding actions in Afghanistan, might hold hearing on these events is not scary in any way. In fact, it should be expected.

To assume that the Senate looking into such events is a bad thing, is silly too.

And again, your original OP focused only on whether one should be afraid for burning the Koran. As I sate above, the guy who did so had no such fear because he knew his actions would never come back to him. Sadly, his actions may have led to the deaths of others ... and now the Senate is going to look into that connection.

[boston bean]

51. Are your purposefully overlooking the reason I have given as to why

one may want to burn a Koran.

It could have nothing to do with religion, but instead be in defense of free speech.

You yourself said you would be afraid of the baggers if you burned a flag. Can you not extrapolate?

[JoePhilly]

55. I do not overlook the reason you give ... I reject it out of hand.

And maybe that is where we part on this.

You are describing an ABSTRACT event ... I am describing current REALITY.

TODAY, as you an I sit here ... no one in America is burning a Koran to demonstrate or protest in favor of "free speech" ... NO ONE. Absolutely no one.

There are a wide variety of better ways to make the "free speech point".

Using the Koran as your "symbol" would be stupid because about 1% of Americans are Muslims. Hell, Fox News would CHEER your attack on ISLAM. There is NO RISK associated with burning the Koran. The nut who did has become FAMOUS, and will probably get RICH for having done so.

[boston bean]

58. I have also described reality, which you dismiss out of hand or reject.

We have parted ways and probably were never even close to the same page.

And you must have a very short memory, what about the fella that drew a cartoon of muhammed.

What about the cartoonist in Washington State that did the same. I believe she is now in some witness protection system. And if you believe I've constructed an ABSTRACT, you need to research a bit more.

What I have outlined for you is not far fetched.

People burn flags and bibles all the time, correct. but someone just burned a Koran and our government is condemning it. Wanting to hold hearings (you need to read a bit more about that) and other things.

[JoePhilly]

62. What I reject out of hand is the suggestion that any of the things you

mention above were done to demonstrate "free speech".

The cartoon guy was not trying to promote free speech. He was trying to sell papers.

Same for the one in Washington State.

YOUR stated premise was about burning the Koran as a DEMONSTRATION of free speech. That is not why anyone burns the Koran, or creates a cartoon.

The Southpark guys did a cartoon too. But they did not do it as a protest for free speech. They did it to be edgy.

And the guy who burned the Koran, he had a reason too ... and it was not free speech ...

[boston bean]

64. You have a very twisted reasoning about free speech.

When someone says something you don't like because it offends you, doesn't mean they shouldn't say it.

the cartoons and the cartoon might not have been in protest, but i think you believe they shouldn't be able to print the cartoons or show it on TV?????? That's what makes it about free speech.

the guy who burned the koran did do it in protest which makes it freedom of expression/speech.

[boston bean]

38. dupe

[customerserviceguy]

66. It wouldn't matter to a radical islamic

Even if you said you'd consider burning a Koran in order stay warm in the winter, that would be enough for him to kill you, your family, or anybody he thought looked like you.

[JI7]

7. it might depend on how/where i did it

[Liberal Veteran]

12. I went with "Other"

1. The question is bit open ended. (Mistakenly, in a fire? Privately because I don't want it? Publicly in middle of some village in Afghanistan or Tehran? etc...)

2. My first first thought to the question was "Oh thank the deity whose existence I question! There haven't been nearly enough threads discussing this!"

[Raine]

13. Only if I was stupid enough to do it, film it and

post it on the internet, I might have reason to worry then. Of course I wouldn't be that much of an idiot in the first place. :silly:

[boston bean]

15. So there is a certain amount of fear?

[Raine]

19. Really anytime you draw attention to yourself

you risk setting off some kind of a nut. I like to fly below the radar.

[JoePhilly]

20. As an analogy, I would be afraid of being killed by a tea bagger ...

if there was a video of me buring the US flag ... or GASP, that "Don't tread on me" flag that love so much more.

A friend of mine was stalked by a tea bagger for an OP-ED he wrote. Now he won't write another. And the Tea Baggers win.

[Liberal Veteran]

Crap. I was typing the same thing essentially when you posted.

[boston bean]

23. So, you see what I'm getting at then? nt

[JoePhilly]

31. Actually not really ... see, him writing an OP-ED is not intended to anger

the tea baggers.

Burning the Koran, is intended to anger Muslims. That is the goal. It would NEVER be about free speech, its about TRYING to make "the other" angry. It is an attempt to provoke an angry response. Which is what happened recently.

It is free speech, and its fine to do it.

But let's not pretend that the ACTOR did not INTEND to cause a reaction similar to the one that occurred.

If I want to show my "love" for free speech, I don't just decide to go out on the lawn and burn the US Flag. I burn the US Flag to protest something else, and I USE my free speech rights as a DEFENSE against those who complain.

[boston bean]

33. I have given a specific example of why one might burn it. Not that looney pastors reasons.

In support of free speech.

[JoePhilly]

39. That's not a real reason though, is it.

Why?

Because THAT example has little impact here in the US.

If one wants to make THAT protest, burn the FLAG.

Burning the Koran is not a protest about "free speech" in the US. And anyone taking that stance is a coward who is unwilling to give their true reason for picking THAT object.

[boston bean]

40. If there are resolutions and bans and laws regarding the burning of holy books

I don't think the flag would fit as well.

[JoePhilly]

42. Back to my point in the other thread ... burn a Flag and a Bible, now you have a

meaningful test.

[boston bean]

47. burn em all, why leave out the Koran? that is after all what Obama condemned

and Harry Reid wants to hold hearings over.

[JoePhilly]

49. To condem something does not make it illegal. You know that right?

Most of us would condemn actions that are specifically intended to anger others to the point of violence.

Which in reality is what Terry Jones was doing. To pretend other is silly.

[boston bean]

53. Of course, and we would all agree that threats of violence are illegal as well as immoral. nt

[JoePhilly]

56. But we are not discussing "threats of violence" ... buring a book or flag is not a threat.

[boston bean]

59. Is burning a Koran a threat?

If so, what give it such special status?

[JoePhilly]

60. Its not a threat. nt

[GKirk]

14. I would fear for my sanity...

...because there is no point in doing that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

28. +1000

[hlthe2b]

17. No...but I would fear for the poor damned LFO who just might

have to intervene if morons who publicized the event continued to escalate the outrage worldwide. Of course the selfish prick that would do this, never thinks of that, just as he didn't give a damned about those poor UN workers. :mad:

AND NO, if I have to add what should be OBVIOUS qualifier, I
1. do not condone the kind of extremism that would turn to violence over such a burning.
2. do not condone the kind of thinking that would lead to such violence.
3. do not hold anyone other than the extremists who committed the killings to be criminally responsible

But,
4. I believe in tolerance.
5. I believe this is an act of HATE SPEECH.
6. I believe this act was intended to incite violence.
7. I believe in free speech.
8. I do not believe on limits on free speech, unless a direct threat is attached.
9. I believe the asshole in Florida has walked a narrow line but has not yet crossed it, in terms of directly inciting violence; therefore his rights are protected.
10. I believe that those who would burn a Koran or a bible or any other book held sacred by some religion or commit similar act of supreme disrespect--for the simple purpose of being offensive-- ought to be ostracized, shamed, derided to the full degree possible.
11. I believe it incompatible with progressive values for one to defend such an act as defined in #9.

[boston bean]

22. So the nub of it is you don't think religious books are fair game to use

protests?

[Liberal Veteran]

21. Another way to look at this: Would you fear for your life if you got press for burning a US flag?

[boston bean]

25. Possibly and does that mean that there should be laws against burning a flag

and people thrown in jail for doing so?

[Shagbark Hickory]

27. I voted yes but I probably should have voted no. I mean. If this bozo could burn the one and not get

his ass kicked or shot even after all that media attention then I guess it's safe to do.

[Initech]

29. I wouldn't do it in the first place.

[quinnox]

30. Burning a Koran would never appeal to me

I respect that people can believe in anything they want, its not my place to insult them for it. I'm not that arrogant to think I have the answers.

Maybe some religious beliefs seem wacky to me, but those would be private thoughts I would keep to myself. Why would I want to draw attention to my personal thoughts in such a flamboyant and in your face manner, unless I was stupid, insane, or desperately seeking attention like a spoiled 5 year old brat kid.

[boston bean]

32. Let's say burning the Koran had nothing to do with Religion.

One would be burning in protest of not being allowed to burn it any longer.

Or because the government is limiting speech by banning the burning of holy books.

[quinnox]

37. Nope, still wouldn't do it

I'm just not the type that would go around burning books for any reason. I love books in general. The act would be appalling to me.

[madinmaryland]

34. Other: I would never burn a book, unless it was a matter of survival.

[boston bean]

35. So you wouldn't have to worry about fearing for your life, I get it.

But if you did, would you be feaful?

[madinmaryland]

45. I said "if it was a matter of survival". i.e. if the book was needed as heat to survive

the night. I really wouldn't give a shit what anyone thought if I was trying to save mine and my family's life.

I would deal with whatever repercussions came later, but I think that someone trying to survive would not be high on someone's list on the other side of the world.

[NorthCarolina]

43. I don't burn books. I may choose not to read them, but I don't burn them

Besides, it unnecessarily pollutes the environment.

[Edweird]

44. No. I don't scare easily.

[DeadEyeDyck]

50. I think the real question is,

Would you feel more frightened burning the Koran as opposed to the Bible.

[boston bean]

54. Actually another question would be, would the fear of death prevent you from burning a Koran?

I believe burning a bible could also put someone in physical danger.

But that doesn't mean the United States should curtail speech by banning the burning of holy books.

That is the point.

And the other point is that many people are afraid to do either of the two due to threat of violence and murder.

[L0oniX]

57. I'm burning one right now.

[joshcryer]

61. Wow.

Fucking atrocious results. :puke:

[johnaries]

63. I don't believe in burning ANY books.

Although I am considering burning the Bible, recording it, and sending it to Terry Jones just so it can see how it feels. But that would be wrong.

[kestrel91316]

65. Yes. To the exact same extent that I would fear for my life if I burned a bible.

In fact, I think there are more folks in the US who would kill me for burning a bible thatn there are who would kill me for burning a koran.

[cali]

70. go to youtube and type in bible burning.

people burn bibles all the time. I don't believe anyone's been killed over it.

[kestrel91316]

72. If their name and face made media headlines for days on end

that might be a different story.

[Enthusiast]

67. Why would one

burn the book that a religious minority considers sacred? Any religious minority. Why the cruelty? Are we Republicans?

[pampango]

68. Jakarta Post editorial

It is easy to blame the violence on the Florida pastor who burned a copy of the Koran on March 20. While that pastor may have been the source of the provocation, the Afghan government owes the world a thorough investigation into how the mob in Mazar-e Sharif could have amassed and gone on a killing spree.

As the town had been considered one of the most peaceful in Afghanistan, allegations of infiltration by the Taliban should be seriously looked into.

The rest of the Islamic world, including Indonesia, has been right in dismissing the March 20 Koran burning as an act of provocation. But it is puzzling that a violent reaction occurred in a town in Afghanistan targeting the UN. Someone or some organization in Afghanistan was certainly scheming, and found in the Florida Koran burning a perfect excuse to deploy a mob.

Nevertheless, the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida, which organized the event, should not be spared from international condemnation for the bigotry that led to the unnecessary deaths of so many people, including UN staffers. The church should consider itself lucky that no Americans were among the dead on Friday. If there were, church members would likely have to face the wrath of their fellow Americans.

[Turborama]

71. Link

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/04/04/editorial-r2p-and-un-workers.html

[Wounded Bear]

69. No, because nobody would know I did it.

;)