Should the US institute some kind of required national service....

[WCGreen]

Not necessarily the Armed Forces, but something so people would have some kind of connection to our country, some kind of stake in how things turn out.

Something that makes us feel part of something bigger than ourselves, something that we believe in.

The modern idea of being connected in this country seems to have shrunk to putting a magnetic yellow ribbon on the back of our cars and maybe voting every four years or so.

I feel that the rhetoric from the right wing is more about what's in it for me instead of what can I do to make our country stronger, better. There doesn't seem to be a connection there.

The idea of inclusion is a great starting point, but without that connection to the idea of the United States, it often devolves into carving out a separate identity that is often at odds with the whole idea of inclusion, assimilation.

This is about going forward, not longing for the past.

When I was active in politics, I would go to the various ethnic and cultural clubs. What I noticed was that everyone of these groups put their nationality in front of America as if the idea of where they came from was more important than where they are right now. It was if they couldn't yet trust America enough to identify with the US of A.

It was the Italian American club, the Polish American society, the Irish American social organization.

Look, I have nothing at all against celebrating where we all came from.

But when I was asked which nationality I was, I always said American, of Irish and Polish decent.

I think we are fractured now because of this vagueness about the idea of what is this that we call the United States.

We are, of course, a collection of nationalities and ethnic groups. But you could say that of every other national culture at one time or another.

That is what makes the idea of America so enticing, that out of the many we became one.

But if we lack a clear connection to that idea of the one, where does that leave us?

I was thinking about this as I do tax returns, that isn't it sad that paying taxes or not is one of the strongest ties that bind us as a country.

How does that prepare us to face an uncertain future when we can't really put our finger on what it truly means to be an American?



On edit. I meant institute all along, I put in instigate when I started to write this and forgot to change it...

[handmade34]

1. yes

[pnwmom]

2. No. That's the next thing they'd privatize. Count on it.

We already have young people doing too many free internships as it is.

But even if that weren't the case, why should we be asking for more FREE LABOR from young people, when what we should be doing is requiring higher taxes from the people who can afford it? What young people need are real jobs with paychecks, not slots in which to perform free labor for the rest of the population.

[WCGreen]

3. It wouldn't be free....

It would be some vouchers for school or a regular paycheck just like in the Armed forces....

[pnwmom]

4. Then the next thing we'd hear is that private companies

are paying the government to use this labor force at highly discounted rates.

I don't see this as a way to build up morale and a sense of connection. That's part of what universal public education is supposed to do. What this would do is create enormous resentment among any young people who were forced to do this -- unless you're thinking this service would be voluntary. But we already have plenty of volunteer options.

[WCGreen]

12. What I say to that is Education is self improvement while a mandatory

national service would be a civil obligation.

[pnwmom]

14. National service would be slavery for young people.

In a time when the government doesn't seem to have enough money for anything -- because they won't raise taxes on those who can afford it -- this would be considered a great solution, by the Rethugs. Put young people to work in nursing homes, etc. -- and then don't pay them what they're worth, give them a voucher!

Forget that.

[WCGreen]

15. I was thinking more on the lines of national parks, summer programs

in the inner city and in places where there is no local money to provide services.

think like providing tutoring to school systems that can't afford it, head start stuff, out reach programs in areas where programs are available but people aren't aware of...

That kind of stuff.

[pnwmom]

22. Again, there would be money for those things if the Federal and State governments

were doing their jobs -- stimulating the economy instead of obsessing about the deficit and taxing the people who can afford it.

Instead, your plan would allow Federal, state, and local municipalities to cover their gaps on the backs of young people.

[WCGreen]

23. Paid young people....

Again, it's not about the money because there would be no volunteers. It's about being connected to something larger than themselves. having a stake in the United States...

[pnwmom]

32. They wouldn't be paid even minimum wage, or the government

would never pass it.

[Hannah Bell]

38. there is no faking having a stake in something larger than yourself. you either do or you don't.

& if you don't, no amount of volunteer service will change the fact; it will just add insult to injury.

"having a stake" means you actually have a stake. a state = a community & a future.

[WCGreen]

43. And what is so wrong with wanting people to be a part of the community

and the future...

Look, it's not the be all end all to all of our fractious political landscape, but if people were to be taken out of their safety zones and made to interact a little with people who aren't exactly like them, perhaps there would be more of a connection a little less jump to conclusions.

Obviously you are against this. I am for it simply because I believe this country has no common ground, everything is designed to the individual. For instance, you don't like the news on NBC, head over to Fox or the BBC or the internet.

And what is so wrong with wanting a connection with your country that runs beyond decals on a car or voting once in a while.

[Hannah Bell]

47. i have no problem with people wanting to be part of a community & a future.

i'm saying that a lot of people aren't. and doing national service won't change that reality.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. I think it's a great idea.

We have a couple of things like this already (the Peace Corps, AmericaCorps) but something bigger, in place of military service is a great idea.

It needs to be promoted so that people will see it and feel the connection with other Americans...

Recommended.

:hi:

[Paradoxical]

6. Yes.

[lonestarnot]

7. Already have, it's called indentured slave.

[Beam Me Up]

8. not so long as the fascists are behind the government, no

[hailhydra]

9. I would like to see something that would expose people to

situations that would help them develop their empathy muscles.

Maybe The Young Republicans Club would have a mandatory two-year service at the local nursing home or pediatric hospital.

We can dream, right?

[Thor_MN]

13. Why do you hate the very young and the very old?

Why would you inflict them with the whiney spoiled scions of wealth?

While I have worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant and think that it is a great experience to teach one humility and respect, amongst other things - I feel that the chances that conservatives could learn anything weighs poorly angainst the risks of harm to the old and the young. Conservatives can't take responsibility for themselves, I don't want to see what happens if you make them responsible for multiple other people.

[hailhydra]

54. lol You make a good point

But I was thinking more along the lines of a candy striper who could change sheets, mop floors and do laundry. Not necessarily doing direct care work.

[cliffordu]

10. Yep. Skin in the game is good for everyone.

[underseasurveyor]

11. No!

But especially NO under the United Corporate States of America.

[Raine]

16. Yes

I think people would like to do something for their country if only they knew what they could do.

[NoBlueDogs]

17. NO! My body is not for rent. It belongs to me and no one else. Ever. n/t

.

[themadstork]

51. The correct answer, IMO. nt

[Siouxmealso]

18. Most people oppose mandatory service

People who oppose the draft do so on the principle that governments shouldn't be able to force people to fight and die for their country; that the benefits of living in a free society should be sufficient to coerce people to serve their country voluntarily.

So far, that's held true, be it the armed forces, Peace Corp, Americorp, or whatever.

Making that service mandatory disrespects the generosity of those who've sacrificed to serve voluntarily and would cause resentment amongst those who perhaps would like to serve but are unable to for whatever personal reasons they may have.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. I am in favor of mandatory military service

and I wouldn't let the rich kids avoid it by letting them buy their way into the Peace Corp.

IMO the advantages to this are so vast as to outweigh any disadvantages.

Getting everyone on the GI Bill to help cover health care and higher education costs are just a start. Removing poor teenagers from that environment and allowing them an opportunity to compete on an even playing field for a couple of years will help give them confidence and open their eyes to possibilities they might not have considered otherwise.

Also, I believe that the discipline and supervision that the military can offer would help reduce the problem we have with drug addiction in this country. Removing young adults from situations which might encourage drug use certainly couldn't hurt.

I would even go so far as to have high school drop outs enter the service early and have them take GED classes in addition to their other training. I would think this might help with the drop out rate.

Since we seem unable to ever pass reasonable gun control laws it would also be useful to have everyone know how to handle and store a firearm properly.



I could go on and on but I know I won't change any minds here. How about we just agree to disagree?

[NoBlueDogs]

20. I cannot agree to disagree over ownership of my body.

Plus how would you like to be sent to war and ordered to shoot foreign civilians? If you don't, you'll be stuffed in a military jail for the rest of your life.

[Modern_Matthew]

36. +1 If I'm ever forced into anything, I will deliberately sabotage everything while in service. nt

[Siouxmealso]

21. All of the advantages you list are true

but it still doesn't make the argument for making it mandatory.

We shouldn't mandate things just because they're a good idea.

[KamaAina]

29. The military-industrial complex's wet dream.

An endless supply of cannon fodder.

You make some decent points, but still, no.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. No. Forced "service" isn't all that warm and fuzzy.

On the other hand, having a strong framework where national service is respected, funded and available to all is a good thing. We have a history of strong national service programs (e.g. the CCC,the Peace Corps, VISTA, Americorps, etc.) What is sometimes lacking is sufficient support to make them workable options for lower income Americans. The stipends that work for middle class kids who have the Bank of Mom and Dad behind them just don't cut it for lower income people without a financial safety net.

[WCGreen]

26. The idea that I have is that people give something back to the community

the country in some way so that they feel connected to what America is...

The pay for this could be anything from college tuition to contributions into a retirement fund or straight out pay.

It would also get people out of their socioeconomic comfort zone and mingle with all that America is.

I'm a strong advocate of this and wish that something like this would have been available to me when I was that age.

It doesn't have to be mandatory but the incentives could be so great that a majority of the young people would take advantage of these programs.

[pitohui]

28. you don't feel connected to someone who has stolen your freedom

the idea is just silly on the face of it

the kids who want to volunteer for service have plenty of places to volunteer, from the armed services to the peace corps, there are already many outlets for kids who are the type of kid who needs to feel "connected" and like they are being of service

some people are not interested in being "connected" nor are they interested in being of "service," and drafting these people into forced service is not going to make them love you or love america, no one can love being made into a slave and a puppet to be moved around the map at the sayso of the more powerful

you must be VERY old if the peace corps, etc. was not available, if the armed services weren't available, if there was no place to volunteer to be useful in your community, if there was no church looking for a helpful hand...i have never known of such a time in america

there is always something useful to be done right now

instead of saying, "wow, i wish there was a way to DO something," i would suggest you go out and do it and show us how before volunteering other people's life energy

[Gormy Cuss]

30. Youth serving organizations, such as Scouting, already do this with young children

as do service learning programs in schools. IMHO that age 8-10 is the time to introduce activities that will promote a sense of community commitment. Learn it early and there's a better chance that it will be a lifelong sense of connection.

For young adults, VISTA (which started in 1965) and the more recent Americorps umbrella are programs that allowed middle and upper income kids the opportunity to mingle with different socio-economic groups. VISTA even had a special program of locally-recruited volunteers which helped bridge the gap between outside do-gooders and neighborhood residents responding to needs of the community. The major problem as I recall with the local recruiting was that the stipending was the only source of income for most and it really came up short and the delayed incentive of college tuition was important but didn't pay the bills.

[snooper2]

25. Yes, something that requires physical activity

Get those obese kids out doing something before diabetes kicks in at 30

[pitohui]

27. NO...we need more JOBS right now

not more "service," not more "volunteers"

jay oh bee ess, it's pretty simple

i guess you could argue that by drafting kids into national service, you free up the jobs they would otherwise take, but i would prefer to see a more direct route to creating the jobs

instead of taking kids out of the workplace for a couple years and having them, i dunno, plant trees in the middle of nowhere for some logging company, i would prefer to see us doing something real and useful, such as restoring actual public infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc) is a big one

my idea creates more desirable jobs, for engineers, not just for ditch diggers, and we DO need to create those white collar jobs or least stop yapping at people to educate themselves, when all an education gets you is debt...

[FLPanhandle]

31. I would implement a Mandatory Service in exchange for a free college education

Forget student loans, grants, etc.

Let people sign up for service in exchange for a college degree. We'd get the service and young people would get an education + experience.

[pnwmom]

34. Mandatory service? Or "sign up for service"? Which are you calling for?

I would be fine if it was volunteer service in exchange for a college degree. But not mandatory service for all young people in exchange for college degrees which most people don't need.

[FLPanhandle]

37. I meant a volunteer service in exchange for a college degree

Better than kids leaving school with 10's of thousands of dollars in debt.

[pnwmom]

39. I wouldn't have any problem with that.

I suspect it would have trouble getting through Congress, however -- at least this Congress.

[Modern_Matthew]

33. Yes, as long as it's not mandatory. nt

[Hannah Bell]

35. national service makes sense with national services to volunteer for.

makes no sense when national services are being privatized.

volunteer so blackwater or someone similar can profit?

forget it.

[Arkansas Granny]

40. Yes, and I've thought this for a long time.

I would favor two years right after of high school and before college. It could be armed services, if they wish, or it could be some sort of public works (like the old CCC programs) or vocational programs. If they lived away from home in a controlled environment (i.e. barracks or camps) it would halp many of them establish some independence and maturity that's hard to develop when you are still living with mom and dad. They could be paid the same as enlisted military personnel with the same benefits, but spend their time in non military endeavors that would benefit communities across the nation.

[WCGreen]

44. Exactly!

[GreenArrow]

41. No.

Create opportunities for service, yes; make them mandatory, no.

Service should be voluntary service, not compelled, which is servitude.

[walldude]

42. Wouldn't it be smarter to fix the country and

have people want to do national service instead of forcing them?

[TheKentuckian]

45. Yeah, my first program would be called Wealthy dumpsterfires pay your fucking taxes!

[yurbud]

46. We have more pressing needs at the moment

[WCGreen]

48. As the country keeps fractioning into smaller and smaller interest groups

I can think of nothing more important...

[PufPuf23]

49. I would suggest a progressive and fair tax system to start.

Also a military draft by lottery and severe legal penalties for croneyism in the military.

Mercenaries foreign and domestic should be illegal in a humane world.

Our military is a sick puppy that breeds sick puppies, and sick puppies retain positions of military power and return home an element into the general population that are permanently damaged.

A year of public service would likely be a good requirement and job program of basic education under a sane system but not with the fuckwads in charge now and even worse under the GOP.

[WCGreen]

50. I'm not suggesting a fix for the economy...

I'm suggesting a way we can get people to participate in the United States of America.

[PufPuf23]

52. I talked about that in the body of the post.

Fair taxation is participation in the USA; after all, taxation without representation lresulted in the Declaration of Independence.

Money equals time and equals speech so must equal service as well.

I think we mostly agree.

[WCGreen]

53. I believe you are correct....

:fistbump:

[Art_from_Ark]

55. A military draft by lottery? Surely you jest

The last time they tried that was in the '70s. It was so roundly criticized that they eventually did away with the draft all together.