Speaking of exploitation: Anyone sold on Ebay lately?

[hlthe2b]

It has been years for me, but I just had the experience of selling a new, unused cell phone-- as I changed carriers before I could activate it and no longer needed it.

So here is what I paid Ebay and Paypal for those "services" (for simplicity sakes, I'll ignore shipping fees, which theoretically one should be able to recoup):

Ebay listing fees (just a basic listing, one photo): 1% of final sales price (these can go much higher, especially if you change listings)

Ebay Final Value Fee: 9.0% of final sales price

Paypal fees: 3.2% of final sales price
___________

So, to sell anything on Ebay, you are now looking at paying out a minimum of 13.2% of the final sales price.

Am I wrong or is that not really exorbitant? It is one thing to absorb this, when it is just a convenient way to sell unneeded property. But, when I think of folks selling their belongings to try to make ends meet in this economy--many who probably are getting "taken" at check cashing shops and other premiere exploiters in our greedy society, I just cringe. Damn. Just seems like it is approaching "loan shark" territory in the magnitude of "fees" assessed. (Ok, that latter comment is a bit of frustrated hyperbole, but really.....):shrug:

[okieinpain]

1. I think it's ok, but that's just me. n/t.

[Matariki]

2. Well if you were selling though a brick and mortar store it would be much higher

even if it were on consignment. 13.2% seems pretty reasonable, hardly "loan shark" territory.

[hlthe2b]

9. Maybe... I recall being charged around 7.5% before...13.2% seems very high.

It is one thing if you are just trying to sell excess "stuff" but it makes it very difficult to break even, if one needs to sell something recently purchased, no matter the demand. :shrug:

[Matariki]

33. What sort of place only takes 7.5% commission?

If you have to resell something recently purchased, you pretty much have to expect a loss any way you sell it.

I think your expectations are fairly unreasonable.

[hlthe2b]

36. This was what I paid as a seller several years ago & ebay made $$

Nonetheless, duly chastised for my unreasonable expectations.

[Webster Green]

3. I stopped selling stuff there for that reason.

I still buy quite a bit on ebay. Mostly silver and high gold content CPUs. There are pretty good deals if you watch closely.

[CBGLuthier]

4. Fees don't bother me. I just wish I could make some sales.

Used to do a good brisk business.

[Webster Green]

7. Yeah, but the listing fees alone can get you if you aren't selling.

I was doing very well a couple of years ago selling solar hot water collectors, then it just dried up with the fucked economy. I got sick of paying listing fees and not getting any sales. Lately I've had some inquiring emails from former customers, so maybe it's starting to turn around.

[snooper2]

5. You can always have a yard sale, but you won't get near the value

[MineralMan]

6. Do you know what that 13.2% buys for you?

It buys exposure on a web site with millions of active buyers. It gives you an auction format that lets those buyers find and bid on your item online, and automates the process, allows you to track the auction, then notifies you when the auction ends and you have a buyer. It then facilitates completion of the transaction and provides a payment system that collects the money for the sale and then deposits in your bank.

All you have to do to sell your item is fill out a form, add a photo, and provide a description. That shouldn't take more than three or four minutes from beginning to end. You do have to ship the item, of course, but you'd have to do that anyhow.

Compare that with the cost of your own auction web site that nobody's ever heard of, the fees for a merchant banking account that allowed you to accept credit card payments, along with the other expenses involved with selling stuff.

Or, see what the local pawn shop would give you for your cell phone. You'd be amazed at how little it's actually worth.

You're complaining about paying someone to do all your marketing for you, process bids, notify both parties and arrange for secure payment. I guess I don't see it.

Try Craig's List. It's free. You won't do as well, and you'll have to do all that communication and deal with the people who call and never show up. Good luck.

[hlthe2b]

10. I got it. You are a really big Ebay fan...

Thank you for the chastisement. :shrug:

I merely commented on the rate of increase of fees and how hard that must be hitting the impoverished that nickel and dime their way to solvency on ebay. I guess they should all just open brick and mortar stores or stop their 'whining'....

[leftstreet]

25. +1

Gazillionaires aren't using eBay to supplement the rent/grocery bill

I agree the fees are ridiculous. Especially given that users do all the work. It's not like eBay's acting the broker and doing all the work to make the sale.

[MineralMan]

50. Actually, no. I haven't sold on eBay for over two years.

Not because of their fees, but because I can't find the antiques and unusual things I specialize in at margins that make sense any longer. I did it for a while, and did OK, but the items cost too much to buy anymore. So I started a new business, which is doing quite well right now.

I've essentially stopped looking for items to sell these days. My criterion was always that I had to buy at 10% and only items that sold for over $100. That's a difficult thing to do. For awhile, it worked. Now, there are too many people competing for the items. So, they're welcome to them for the poor margins they're getting.

Still 13% is chump change for the services eBay offers. There's nothing like it, and your items will sell if you have any sense at all about descriptions and pricing. eBay has changed the entire antiques market, along with many other specialty items market. An amazing thing it is.

[Lorien]

56. And every major corportion. nt

[Hannah Bell]

39. and once they set up the site, maintenance costs are minimal.

license to print money, imo.

[MineralMan]

51. Actually, they are not minimal.

eBay owns its own server farm, and has a huge number of employees. It's just not that simple. It may seem simple from the outside, but it's not. You appear to have a limited knowledge of what it takes to run a site like that. Yes, they make an excellent profit from it. The sellers and buyers, however, benefit in a way that cannot be measured. I've had a stand-alone online store and a brick and mortar store. eBay is so much less expensive than either of those that it's ridiculous.

I can see where someone selling a single item might be miffed at the commission, but nobody who has made their living selling stuff is at all surprised. It's much more expensive using other systems. Check out what Amazon.com charges it's sellers. Really.

[Hannah Bell]

65. compared to the customer base & v. alternatives, yes, minimal.

ebay's entire workforce -- including for paypal, skype, & a couple of other ventures - is about 18K people.

net income (aka profit) = 1.8 billion.

Profit = $100K per employee.


Walmart = $8500 per employee.

[sendero]

58. It's still highway robbery..

... Ebay was quite profitable when the fees were less than half that.

[pipi_k]

8. This is why some sellers...

are selling items for a pittance but making it up on shipping.

which, actually, they're not supposed to do.

But lots of them do it anyway.


BTW, I haven't sold anything on eBay in a long time because of the ridiculous fees

[hlthe2b]

11. I know... The particular cell phone I sold...

was being listed by some for $25 or $30-- an incredible bargain-- until you factor in the $100-$150 (or more) in domestic shipping fees. If a buyer were not careful, they could have easily have committed themselves to that.

[jberryhill]

13. Which is why ebay is starting to assess fees on total cost, including shipping

And they take a bite out of paypal transactions too.

[OhioChick]

22. Not anymore....

Ebay fees will extend to shipping costs now, too. Starts mid-April now, I believe.

[Johonny]

43. I noticed this

long sellers these days appear to be making it back with high shipping fees. Either way Ebay isn't the place to find stuff it use to be. Seems like a lot of people have moved to cheaper lower overhead areas. I rarely shop there these days. The inventory just isn't there anymore.

[girl gone mad]

12. Next time, you could try Craig's List first.

Many of my friends buy and sell this way now.

[hlthe2b]

15. Only problem is safety concerns with strangers coming to your house...

I have done so in the past and also through want ads, but there have been some unfortunate criminal incidents lately. But, yes, I know the drill in terms of meeting in public, etc. so I may try that next time.

[ecstatic]

24. +1000. Several people have been robbed around here

recently.

[Mosby]

30. I have sold two cars on craigs list

I post my workplace address as the place to meet up, everything worked out great.

[hlthe2b]

32. Wow... I contemplated this when I finally traded in the Subie

I finally wrangled a good deal on a trade in, but given it was a ten year old car (with low mileage, fortunately) that was quite a bit of negotiating.

I really sweated out what to do with it because I knew I could meet in public, but then the issue comes with the "test drive." I surely didn't want to get in with a total stranger and to get a friend to go with me every time was just not feasible. Do you take their license and just let them drive it on their own?

Then there is payment. My eyes were really opened when a friend found out a >$10K certified check from a local bank was no good (seems they can cancel them out or do other things to make them worthless). Another friend was going to meet the individual at their bank, which seemed the best course of action, to get them the bank to wire the $$ to their account while they stood there. But, a neighbor once told me a family member sold to someone who insisted on bringing the cash--only to have them rob them of the cash and the car after they had signed over the deed.


I've sold washers/dryers and furniture--by myself and without too much concern. But, a car is quite a challenge for me...

[reggie the dog]

41. I sold my old car

to some old arab dude for 700 euros, he talked me down from 1000 but agreed to pay in cash as part of his bargaining..... so we met up 2 days later, at my apartment, to sign the deed and do the cash transaction. I guess he could have robbed me but my insurance would have paid me for the car in that case.

[Mosby]

66. Both times there were multiple people coming to look at the cars

So I asked for the DL of the person that was not going to drive the car to hold onto until they returned from the test drive. I would never go on a test drive with a prospective buyer though, way to dangerous.

When you sell a car you have to sign over the title (at least in AZ) and it needs to be notarized so given that I just met the buyers at their bank. when I see the customer go up to the teller and buy a cashiers check I'm pretty confident that it's good. The second car I sold the guy used the same bank as me so I deposited the check not 10 minutes after it was cut. As a general rule you should never accept a cashiers check from an out of state bank I personally would only take a check from a major bank like Chase or Wells Fargo.

I understand that it might be a lot simpler to just trade in the car but the dealers will rip you off and it makes the buying process more complicated by allowing them to play with numbers by including the trade in value in the sale price. To give you a personal example I sold the first car on Craig's List for $7500, the dealer where I bought my truck offered me $4500 in trade.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

26. me too. I like the privacy and safety of ebay.

Also, you don't get a fraction of the exposure on Craiglist that you do on ebay. For the kind of stuff I sell (vintage items) i need to be able to attract people who really WANT this stuff and know the value of it.

[sendero]

59. FWIW..

.... I've sold a LOT of stuff on Craigslist. Last year I moved to a much smaller house and needed to unload all kinds of stuff big and small.

I had almost universally pleasant experiences and the only unpleasant ones were no worse than tire-kicker phone calls or no-shows.

I agree you would want to take extra care in certain circumstances though. For some items, meeting in a public place is called for.

But with Craigslist, I don't need Ebay very often any more.

[Horse with no Name]

61. Last time I sold a small item on Craigslist

I met in the parking lot across from the police station.

The transaction went very smoothly.

[hlthe2b]

62. heh heh... that's a thought...

;)

[Codeine]

68. My fiancée sells a lot of mobile phones on Craigslist.

She meets people in busy supermarket parking lots near the store entrance. She arrives early, stays well away from her car, and lets the other person leave before she goes to hers. Paranoid, perhaps, but she's had no problems that way.

[RebelOne]

53. My son breeds pedigree dogs and sells on Craigs List

and does quite well selling puppies.

[Mosby]

69. He's breaking the rules

Did you know that? Craig's list has a strict policy of not alowing breeders to sell on their site.


Partial list of items for sale and services the advertisement of which is not permitted on craigslist:

Household pets of any kind including but not limited to dogs, cats, primates, cage birds, rodents, reptiles, amphibians, fish. Re-homing with small adoption fee OK

http://www.craigslist.org/about/prohibited.items

[Bunny]

70. I thought it was illegal to sell dogs on craigslist, especially pedigree dogs.

I think you're only allowed to charge a small re-homing fee.

[loudsue]

14. Nowadays, when I need to buy anything I go to Craig's List.

Not everything I need is there, but I also go to Amazon for newer stuff, and a few other sites. Never did buy much off eBay. I've sold a couple of things on Craig's list, and it's pretty easy.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

16. To be honest, I don't have a problem with a 12% overhead

I sell on ebay too, and try to hold out until they offer free or discounted listings. They're giving free listings (no listing fees) starting April 19, so that will be the next round of selling for me. I had my own business for many years with an overhead WAY higher than 12%. I figure we are getting the ebay affiliation and exposure, and the convenience of paypal (as opposed to waiting for checks and waiting for them to clear, etc) which is very valuable to me.

[hlthe2b]

18. I suppose... It is just the steep increase in fees over a relatively

short period of years that got me...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

21. I see-- I only started selling about 3 years ago

so didn't get the sticker shock that you did. I admit I had to rationalize all the charges to accept that they do take a nice chunk when we do all the work!

[GreenArrow]

17. The requirement to offer paypal (Ebay owned)

among other things, is what turned me off.

[Skink]

19. I just wish the really weird stuff could always be done by private auction.

:blush:

[hlthe2b]

20. Hmm. You must frequent some auctions, I manage to miss?

I don't have a clue....

[Patiod]

23. It's worse elsewhere

I used to sell my jewelry in a girlfriend's shop. She took 33% of the price, which really stung, but that was better than the 40% which is standard for craft stores (some places take as much as 50%).

As someone mentioned earlier, there's always Craig's List, but then you have to deal with people directly. I'm a big Freecycle fan, but that's because I'm trying to clean out a house, not make money.

[SheilaT]

27. I stopped buying on EBay when

they started requiring PayPal and only PayPal for payment.

[Liberal_in_LA]

63. yeah... that's kind of a bummer

[Armstead]

28. Craig's List -- Free

If you don't mind the possibility of getting contacted by scammers

[hlthe2b]

29. or robbed... or worse.

Robbery incidents seem to be increasing, unfortunately.

[DrDan]

31. sounds pretty reasonable to me - there is a lot of investment in this bit of software

and millions of buyers see the product.

13% does not sound unreasonable at all to me.

[hlthe2b]

34. Perhaps... fees escalated over a short period of years...

So it is probably just "sticker shock" to me. Plus, I seem to recall them cutting you a break on listing fees, if your item didn't sell (like maybe the re-listing fee was discounted).... No more, apparently. I also didn't realize they charged additional listing fees when you merely edited a listing. :shrug:

The requirement to use paypal is actually the part that concerns me the least, though I know it has made a lot of regular sellers leave ebay. To me, it is a very beneficial convenience--for the seller that gets paid very rapidly and especially for the buyer that has some recourse if they get "taken."

[EFerrari]

35. 13% doesn't seem unreasonable to me for the storefront. n/t

[hlthe2b]

37. Oh, it is much more for an ebay store... this is an individual single sale.

I used to have a ebay store with continuous listings. I know and appreciate the need for those extra fees.

[louslobbs]

38. Sometimes frustrated hyperbole must be expressed, I for one appreciated it, thanks

for the information.

Lou

[JI7]

40. i just wish they had more payment options,i remember they use to do money order

this was before i had a credit card so it was really useful to me.

[Nye Bevan]

42. It's not "exploitation" when you have a choice.

You voluntarily chose to pay the asking price for a service that somebody was offering. That's not exploitation.

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. OP didn't ask if it was exploitation. Asked if it was "really exorbitant" nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

45. It's a lot yes but compared to the 20% youd pay for an auction house...

its hard to deny that its cheaper.

[jillan]

46. I sell on Ebay. Listen to their newest - they are going to start calculating their final value fee

on what the items sold for PLUS shipping.

They are greedy as they come.

I do pretty good selling on there but they definitely keep cutting into my profits.

[SoCalDem]

48. perhaps that's to keep people from offering something ridiculously low, but charging

unreasonable "shipping costs"... That's how the infomericals make their money..not from the crap they sell, but from the outrageous shipping & handling fees..

I recently bought something on ebay that had a $12.35 shipping charge..combined with the $9.00 I paid, it was still a bargain, but I know it won't cost them $12.35 to ship it to me, when another item I bought is being shipped from the UK for $1.42

[jillan]

54. It depends if it was Priority Mail or not. Priority mail is expensive. A large flat rate box costs

about that much.

This ebay group I belong to, someone linked to a listing where the seller was charging 99 cents for the item but $80 for shipping. Their new policy will definitely cure people like that!

[Lorien]

55. That's insane. Yet another corporation taking advantage of the desperate. nt

[cutlassmama]

47. Yes. It screws over the small time seller.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. I have not ued ebay in an age...nt

[KurtNYC]

52. eBay is selling acess to a marketplace of millions of buyers

if you are selling small, non-unique items under $60 then you may not see the impact. But if you are selling antiques or high dollar collectibles it is the best way to get top dollar. Worth 13% although I wish there was an alternative just to feel like there was more choice involved.

[jillan]

I wish there was an alternative to ebay too. I do pretty good selling.

Actually claimed my earnings and my expenses on my taxes for 2010.

[KurtNYC]

60. for some categories Etsy is an alternative but

I have never found anything to buy on it. It seems kind of chaotic.

[jillan]

57. I wish there was an alternative to ebay too. I do pretty good selling.

Actually claimed my earnings and my expenses on my taxes for 2010.

[eShirl]

64. seems to me the sellers more than make up for it with the "shipping & handling" fees

[eowyn_of_rohan]

67. not all of us - but some sure do!

I often offer free shipping, or at least keep my s&h charges within 25-50 cents above the actual cost, otherwise people give you low star ratings for your s&h prices!

[cbdo2007]

71. They aren't stopping you from taking out a classified "for sale" in your local paper.

You are welcome to do that and "exploit" yourself. Should only cost you $25 per week or so.