If there's a government shutdown, should the US military be shutdown as well?

[Cali_Democrat]

Poll question: If there's a government shutdown, should the US military be shutdown as well?

Pretty straightforward poll.

[Life Long Liberal]

1. Why not. It will scare the GOP. n/t

[Chipper Chat]

2. Also all public schools should cancel classes for tomorrow.

Local police stations and state troopers should also function at a minimum. Garbage should pile up.
Thanks, abortion zealots!

[Duer 157099]

11. There's school tomorrow?

:shrug:

[Chipper Chat]

52. Oh shit, that's the problem with working nights.

:shrug:

[Drale]

3. Wow could you have written this poll anymore biased?

[Wait Wut]

27. +1

Exactly. "Straightforward poll"...for those who hate the military and think all they do is kill innocent civilians.

[JackRiddler]

56. Would you prefer some propaganda about "our service men and women"?

It's funny that people on DU don't understand that DU-only polls are usually written intentionally as editorials by other means.

[Drale]

62. No but how about something like

Should we continued to pay the men and women who are putting their lives on the line and doing an impossible job?

[JackRiddler]

63. Yes, we should continue to pay them... during the trip home.

They should also receive whatever pensions and benefits they've earned by their contracts. Self-evidently.

And when they're home, they and others should get jobs doing useful things in the civilian economy, like converting the energy and transport structures before we doom this civilization (a far bigger threat than any military scenario short of nuclear).

Any country needs a disaster response force. That would be a useful thing to fashion out of the remnants of the unnecessary global military machine, once it is no longer being applied to imperial games and fantasies of defense, or that "we" should be militarily dictating to all the designated bad guys.

[LiberalFighter]

4. Keep paying the soldiers in war zones.

Put on hold payments to all other military personnel. That means those in the Pentagon too.

Put on hold payments to Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, etc.

[slackmaster]

6. Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines at home have mortgages, rent, kids, etc. too.

The only people who should have their pay cut off are members of Congress.

[RZM]

18. +1

Cutting defense spending is all well and good. But announcing all of sudden that the military payroll is supsended is not the way to go about it.

[Jmaxfie1]

22. +1000000 n/t

[jillan]

35. +1

[slackmaster]

5. No. The military is an "essential" function of government.

Only non-essential things should be shut down.

[JackRiddler]

57. What's essential about some base in Okinawa?

[slackmaster]

66. My niece was born in the US Navy hospital on Okinawa

I think that's rather essential.

[JackRiddler]

67. Congratulations on the birth of your niece.

Shutting down the Okinawa base, as the people there have demanded, would hardly prevent further joyful births. In fact, ending the global archipelago of military sinkholes for US taxpayer money could perform wonders in returning joy to this country as the money is invested in things that would be much better for the people here (and the rest of the world).

[treestar]

64. +1 an early thing to learn for anyone who looks into the subject

of government shut downs.

[Llewlladdwr]

7. How would a military 'shutdown' work exactly?

Would our troops be allowed to defend themselves our should they just allow themselves to be killed?

[dkf]

8. Too bad we can't use this to end these wars.

[anarch]

9. no, but congress shouldn't get paid

not that it matters, since they're mostly from the privileged class anyway, but at least it would be some kind of statement.


Also, as I understand it, if there is a shutdown, garbage collection will be suspended in DC, and our libraries will be closed. Also the DMV. This is because congress, in their wisdom, decreed some time ago that DC's population is not fit to govern themselves or make budgetary decisions on a local level, so congress essentially controls DC's budget. And we get no voting representation in congress, either, which is pretty rich. Our nation's capitol. What a joke.

[noamnety]

10. Other

shut down the military, let the rest of the government keep running. :)

[Spoonman]

16. Shut down social security

and let the rest of government keep running.

YOU MAKE THE CALL - The elderly or the children of soldiers


Thank goodness your not in charge!

[noamnety]

29. You could look at it that way

Or if we're setting up reactionary dichotomies for emotional effect, we could frame it as the children of our soldiers vs. the children in countries we're attacking, and discuss whether some lives are more valuable than others.

If we shut down military operations globally, we'd of course save enough money that we could afford to feed our children, including the children of soldiers. And we'd stop creating more dead parents or parents with PTSD.

[Spoonman]

45. "IF" a frog had wings,

it's ass would not get bruised from hopping!

There were no "reactionary dichotomies for emotional effect" presented in my post.
I simply posed an alternative to your decision, and TO the MAIN POINT of the original post.
It is you that is spiraling off topic and seeking an emotional effect.
PSTD has nothing to do with solving the budget issue, and what a government shut down should or should not apply to.

There are HUNDREDS of things that we *could* shut down GLOBALLY that are a COMPLETE WASTE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS.

The military, like it or not, is an ESSENTIAL ELEMENT of our government, without the US military, we would not exist as a country!

We have an ABSOLUTE OBLIGATION to those men and woman who risk their lives daily serving in it!

[noamnety]

47. I think "what about their children" was for emotional effect.

What about those other children is on a similar level.

And just so we're clear - I'm a vet and I've been a single parent while serving.

[Spoonman]

12. This poll clearly demonstrates

the hate for the military that is harbored in the hearts of so many people here.

Please don't even bother responding with all the "military industrial complex" BS.

If the hate you have has blinded you so badly that you can't remember Mr and Mrs Private Jane/Joe and their 2 children, you need to take a serious look into becoming a registered republican!

[cleanhippie]

13. [phone]

[Jmaxfie1]

19. Seconded!!! n/t

[sufrommich]

14. Assume most of the negative posters have not had military

members in their family. I'm not excusing it, just can't figure out any other reason to wish ill will to individual soldiers and their families.

[Cid_B]

25. One doesn't need to have family members in the service...

... to appreciate their role.

The reason is that in many eyes here the military is an evil thing to be repulsed. Frankly, I'm surprised to see acknowledgement of their necessity at times.

Logic not withstanding...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Fuck the MIC.

And, what makes Mr and Mrs Private Jane Doe any more worthy than other workers?

USMC 1961 - 1965

[RZM]

30. So rank and file military personnel should be left out in the cold?

Because you don't like civilian defense contractors or the civilian political leadership that gives the military its marching orders? They won't be all that affected by temporarily supsending the military payroll, but regular military personnel will be. If you want to make that argument, do so, but good luck getting many people to agree with you.

[Spoonman]

39. USMC 1961 - 1965?

I assume you feel the limpdick clerk working at the department of who gives a shit counting the pencils in inventory is at risk of being killed by a IED, tail rotor failure, or round from an AK?

Point being, the soldiers are putting their lives on the line for their paychecks, and the postman might take a nip on the ankle by a pissed off pooch!

US Army SF 18D 1983-1990
Grenada
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Which of those jobs you mentioned perform the greater public service?

Shooting up the bogeymen de jour in service of the MIC or the postman who delivers the mail for the public?

[Spoonman]

50. 61-65 Two wrongs

don't make a right.
I can fully understand why you might feel the way you do.

I can't for the life of me understand why YOU would WANT to treat others the way you were treated!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. I'm saying that the troops don't have a corner on being paid when others aren't.

Nor, that their jobs are more valuable to them than other peoples. Or, for that matter more valuable to society.

I do believe that the military is America's Sacred Cow, untouchable and irreproachable by most of the population. It has been and is still being used by ruthless people for gain economically and/or politically. I am under no delusion, whatsoever, that the military will not be affected by a "shutdown" because it is our most sacred of Sacred Cows.

I don't want others treated the way I was or, more importantly, like some of my friends were treated. The ones whose names now decorate a wall in D.C. so that LBJ and Nixon could prove how tough they were and General Dynamics, Boeing, Lockheed, etc could cash in.

[Cali_Democrat]

26. I think people are wondering why the US military should be exempt from the shutdown....

While other government workers with families that are not exempt and will have to suffer through the shutdown.

I feel that it's just another examples of our priorities. We seem to always have money for the military and wars, while cuts are made in other areas of the budget.

[SDuderstadt]

34. I think that question...

answers itself.

[Cali_Democrat]

37. What do you mean?

[SDuderstadt]

38. I cannot believe you are asking that...

question.

Do you honestly believe the Taliban or al Qaeda would not shoot American soldiers in the back, given the chance?

[Cali_Democrat]

40. I stand by my statement

Many Americans are indeed curious why the US military gets priority over other areas of the budget.

We seem to always have money for the military and wars, while cuts are made or proposed in other areas of the budget.

[SDuderstadt]

42. Good...

I stand by my statement, too.

This is an incredibly stupid, biased poll as evidenced by choice # 2. Look up the definition of "loaded question", as well as "false dilemma".

[Cali_Democrat]

46. Let's look at the staements you made to me in this thread

" I think that question...answers itself."

" I cannot believe you are asking that.."

"You have got to be...kidding"

It's very good that you stand by those profound statements. :thumbsup:

[SDuderstadt]

48. Are those ALL the statements I made?

Hint: No.

[Owl]

43. +1

[JackRiddler]

58. You call it the "military industrial complex BS"? Damn you, Eisenhower!!!

[SDuderstadt]

15. What an incredibly...

stupid, biased poll.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Here Here!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Shut it down or give the military something useful to do.

[RZM]

20. Military personnel and their families have to eat too n/t

[noamnety]

65. Thank god those other government employees

don't have families that need to eat.

[krawhitham]

24. What do you want for them to lay their guns down and walk home?

They would be shot in the back

[Cali_Democrat]

32. Who would shoot them in the back?

[SDuderstadt]

33. You have got to be...

kidding.

[JackRiddler]

60. No, the guns are still functional even without pay. They should arrest their officers.

[SDuderstadt]

61. "arrest their officers"?

Huh?

[emulatorloo]

28. "Pretty straightforward poll." dunno, sounds more like a push-poll

[Lint Head]

31. Any time we stop killing people it is good.

[Horse with no Name]

36. For God's sake no

Troops get killed in draw downs. It is one of the most dangerous times for them while they are in theater.

[Shandris]

44. If you're going to shut it down, make them shut the whole thing down.

Military, post office, police, fire (they use federal subsidies!), public schools, public libraries, public transportation, no morning purchase of money for the banks...NOTHING.

Give them their fucking 'small government' and let them choke to death on it.

[prairierose]

49. If military personnel are not going to be paid...then yes,...

the military should be shut down. From what I have heard, they will not be paid so they should get some time off. And this is how the repugs always "support the troops". By screwing them in one way or another.

[Vinee]

51. Once the wars are over we can look at downsizing the military but not like this.

I'm all for ending these wars but our soldiers go through hell for us. They should not be used as political pawns. They need to be paid. period.

[Quantess]

54. Other: I don't like the way the question is framed.

I spoke to a woman yesterday, who was returning the expensive cool gadget their family just bought and suddenly could not afford, because of the government furlough. Her husband is going back to Iraq soon.

I hate these stupid wars and occupations, but our troops and their families deserve to get paid.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

55. Parts of it will be -- or at least working for free.

I'm a Reservist, and the word we are getting is that some of our orders will be held up if the shutdown occurs. Other orders will remain in effect, but the Reservists performing them won't be paid until funds are available.

[JackRiddler]

59. Thanks for annoying the more literal minded around here.

What kind of a poll is that?! You call this social science research?!



ON EDIT: The offended piety keeps getting funnier.

My God, don't you realize our service men and women have stomachs, children and mortgages? You monster!!!

Rather, I should weep for this nation without humor.

[Modern_Matthew]

68. Yes. I'd probably be carrying a sign saying "SHUT 'R DONE" if this were the case. nt