I'm confused. Explain it to me as if I were a five year old.

[Meldread]

According to the polls a majority of self-identified Republicans want their party to stick to their principles even if it shuts the government down. Meanwhile, the majority of self-identified Democrats want their party to compromise with the Republicans. Finally, self-identified independents want both sides to compromise.

So, if we're strictly looking at the polls I can understand why the Democratic leadership is moving to compromise with Republican's. It appears to be what the party and independents want... my problem - and here is where I'm confused - you can't compromise with people who don't want to compromise. It's like a twisted game of chicken, only your opponent fully intends to commit suicide - you can't 'win' by playing their game unless you commit suicide along with them.

In effect, by negotiating the Democratic Party has enabled the Republican's to carry on a farce. They're able to sit there and PRETEND as if they're negotiating with the Democrats, when in reality they're hoping - no they're praying - for a shutdown. When you have people who literally hate the government (unless it's prying into your private life), then shutting the government down is a win for them. They have absolutely no incentive to even meet Democrats 1/5th of the way - forget about meeting in the middle.

Despite the popular wisdom saying that the Republican's will be blamed for the shutdown, I'm going to strongly disagree with that. I believe the Democrats, and in particular Obama, are going to be blamed for the shutdown because they wouldn't "compromise" (despite the fact the goal post continues to move). I believe that even the "smart" Republican's would view a shutdown as a good thing from a cynical political prospective - especially if it endangers the tepid economic recovery. If we experience a double dip as a result of the shutdown, then more people will lose jobs... who will be blamed for that? Obama and the Democrats. By November 2012 most American's (who have attention spans shorter than goldfish) will have forgotten all about this nonsense, and will only know one thing: Things haven't gotten better, and they're getting worse... and they're going to blame those in power - the President.

As a result of this in my mind negotiating with the Republicans is a mistake because it provides them with political cover. I'm not saying the debt and deficit isn't a problem. It is a major problem. There isn't a serious person that I know who doesn't think that in the long term that it's a major issue that has to be tackled. I just fundamentally disagree with the Republican approach, and believe the Democrats should STOP negotiating and put forward their OWN ideas on how to do it. Then stand firm by calling out the Republicans for not supporting it. They should be the ones on the offense; not the ones playing defense. They should be forcing Republicans to come to them and negotiate on THEIR terms rather than the other way around.

So... can someone explain to me why I'm wrong? Am I simply missing something glaringly obvious, or are Democrats just this stupid?

[Scuba]

1. Why compromise with a moving goalpost? Too bad the Dems either...

a) are truly non-vascular plants

or

b) are just as corrupt as the Republicans

[Meldread]

7. That's exactly my point.

The Republicans shouldn't be the ones setting the terms for the negotiation. The Democrats control the Senate and the Presidency. THEY should be setting the terms on which things are negotiated.

After they've come up with a plan and the terms that they're willing to negotiate on, they should be out there doing exactly what the Republicans are doing now: demanding that Republicans vote for their plan. If Republicans refuse then you demagogue them into oblivion. Accuse them of forcing a government shutdown, and then paint horrific pictures of what that will mean.

"Republicans don't support the troops! If they don't vote for this bill then our men and women in armed conflicts will not be able to support their families back at home! Their unwillingness to support the troops is unconscionable!"

"If the government shuts down the chances of a terrorist attack on America increases dramatically and this will be on the head of every radical Republican in the house who refuses to support our reasonable bill."

"These radical Republicans in the house won't even come to the table. If they shut down the government its going to mean that seniors aren't going to get their social security checks, and that Medicare claims can't be processed. Many seniors could even have their lives imperiled, and yes - in some cases some Seniors might even die as a result of these radical Republicans in the house."

I mean - come on. Damn it, put the pressure on Republicans. Demagogue and lie if you have too, and repeat it over and over into every microphone that you can find and to anyone that will listen. This is what the Republicans do... learn from them, and use their own tactics against them. If the Republicans refuse to agree to the terms Democrats set, let the government shutdown and then continue to blame Republicans for it each and every day that it continues. If the economy takes a double dip, coin the term: "The Republican Recession."

Seriously, I'm convinced that Democrats lack any real political savvy. The Republicans run circles around the Democrats every time, and not only with this issue. By the time this ends the Republican's are going to have 95% (or more) of what they wanted. Meanwhile, they're going to receive high-fives from their base and declare a public victory. Furthermore, it's going to endanger every future negotiation the Democrats have with Republicans.

[Scuba]

10. As the old adage goes, the reason for the Democratic Party....

...is so there's no alternative to the Republicans.

[louslobbs]

14. No more phone calls, we have a short and to the point winner.

Lou

[leveymg]

2. I think you've put your finger on the reason why Dems lose so many elections

Most of the middling-sorts of DLC Democrats are willing to infinitely bend to prove that they have some effective purpose -- apparently, maintaining the status quo. Whereas the more radical sorts of Republicans always act as if they're out of power and do exactly what their base want, keeping the Right-wing crazies mobilized and coming back for more.

I envy the Republicans - at least they're effective by behaving as if they aren't, whereas the Blue Dogs and Mr. Obama can do nothing but act as if they were in the minority.

It's a mad, mad world.

[trof]

3. OK kid, here ya go. Both parties in congress just LOVE Crayons.

And the folks who make Crayons give them both lots of Crayons.
But that means there aren't enough Crayons left for the rest of us kids.
And we like Crayons too.

So if the members of congress want even MORE Crayons (and they always do, more and more.), they have to take some of OUR Crayons.

So we don't have enough Crayons to go around.
And that makes us sad.

But the really weird part is that we keep voting for the people that want to take our few Crayons away.

Understand now?
Me neither.
:shrug:

[RagAss]

4. If you were a five year old....I'd tell your parents to do anything they could...

To raise you in another country.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. Sounds more like a rant than a question. Not that this is a bad thing.

I will explain it to you like you were a five-year old, but you already know the answer. We are just stupid. Or more precisely, our leaders are just stupid.

You are right, we should be the ones on the offense.

[hayu_lol]

8. To be crude...

our so-called Democratic leadership has been passing out KY jelly for 10-20 years now.

We need to make a final offer...to our advantage...and if refused, tell the 'pigs' to shut down their government. It will hurt a lot of people, but then most of us have been pain for years. A bit late to develop spines but the language here(for us to use with Repugnants)is: What part of NO don't you understand...and turn off the lights when you leave the building today.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. Yes, most of us have been in pain for years. I hate the thought

of the government shutting down, and sadly it will not save any money, but will cost a bundle to shut it down. Doesn't make sense to me either.

[Meldread]

11. Yeah, sorry.

I started off with a basic question in my head, then when I started typing I ended up with a rant.

The basic premise of the question was: 'Are Democrats really this stupid?'

...but you're right. I already knew the answer to that question. :(

I seriously think they took a look at the polls, and went 'Ooo! People want us to compromise!' Meanwhile, they've completely misread what the public wants, and completely ignore the details of the policy. It's really the same old trap the Democratic Leadership seems to fall into again and again.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. No apology needed. It was a good rant. I wish our leaders

would get as righteously indignant.

[davidthegnome]

6. I don't think you're wrong at all

This is one of those areas where I'm like... "WTF? Why would democrats agree to compromises that are utterly fucking stupid?"

Don't get me wrong, I'm a democrat, but I'm too damn liberal to understand why we should compromise with lunatic assholes, I guess.

[LooseWilly]

9. Nothing to explain—you're right.

5 year-olds love to hear that explanation... in my experience. ;)