Imagine if the Dem Congress shut down government demanding the end to Bush tax cuts for the rich

[nashville_brook]

Or, if they had similarly promised a showdown for the public option. Or for tighter controls on deep water drilling.

Imagine the effect that would have had on us, the base. Think about how that would have made you feel, to know that your Congress had your back and was willing to expend large amounts of political capital on the issues that matter to you most. I know how I would have felt -- invincible.

This budget showdown will most likely dissolve in a few days, if not a few hours. But, the Tea Bagging base of the Republican party will come out of it energized in the knowledge that they're party will fight for them to the bitter end.

What do we have? The party of "they won't take 'yes' for an answer." How pathetic is that?

Regarding the Planned Parenthood rider, there's a lot of deconstructing that can be done, and has been done, on Republican hatred of women. But, know that when their pols make a stand on denying women access to reproductive health care, it's less about our dwindling right to health, reproductive freedom and economic security, and more about their reelection campaign and fundraising.

The Republican base is going to come out of this energized and in tip-top shape to take on the full destruction of Medicare and Social Security.

And we're coming out of it with the knowledge that our party will meet them "more than halfway."

[phleshdef]

1. Thats a completely out of touch assessment that is the opposite of the likely reality.

Had the Democrats threatened to shut down the government if blue dogs and Republicans weren't willing to give in on what are widely perceived as token liberal agendas (I said widely perceived, thats not my personal perception at all) then they would successfully be painted as unreasonable "power grabbers trying to shove a socialist agenda down the throats of America" and willing to cut off military pay, public parks, FHA loans and the livelihood of millions of federal workers to do it. Of course we know thats BS, but what we know doesn't matter when it comes election time.

Likewise, what I just described above is exactly whats about to happen to Republicans if they let the government shut down over title 10.

If polls are any indication, most people don't see the world as you do. Most people want both sides in Washington to compromise. Most people love the idea of bipartisanship. Most self proclaimed Democrats want Democrats to compromise on this very budget as they have. And when this happened with Bill Clinton, Clinton came out looking like the reasonable, flexibility adult who was far from ideologically unhinged and it helped him tremendously.

The Republican base has BEEN energized so there is not "coming out of this energized". They got energized the moment they realized that a black Democrat with a middle eastern name won the Presidency.

[nashville_brook]

3. that's actually an out-of-touch swallowing hook-line-sinker of republican FRAMING

[phleshdef]

23. And thats a poorly crafted. empty talking point that doesn't speak to what I actually said at all.

[nashville_brook]

26. no, seriously -- your framing is 100% GOP-approved.

[phleshdef]

33. Lying to yourself about how the average voter thinks doesn't help progressive causes.

Its not a GOP framing. This shit is reflected in poll after poll after poll. And not just one poll or polls coming from a particular ideological circle. Its something that polls tend to show time and time and time and time again. Voters generally like the warm and fuzzy, partisan transcendent bullshit, atleast when asked about it. Particularly, Democrats, when polled, tend to lean towards compromise and bipartisanship. It probably has something to do with liberals being generally more of a cooperative nature than Conservatives. Regardless, without acknowledging trends like this, you can't understand whats going through the heads of the voters adn if you don't understand that, you don't win shit.

[nashville_brook]

40. polls aren't reality, my friend. but if "public opinion" counts for anything, you're an outlier here

[phleshdef]

43. When a significant number of them from various outlets consistently say the same thing, they are.

Whatever else you said there didn't make a lick of sense.

[nashville_brook]

46. backatcha

[louslobbs]

146. What makes you think that your interpretation of the "facts" are some how "better than" or superior

to someone else's. We get it, according to your views and interpretation of fact, you are right and Nashville_brook is "wrong". What you have to say, has more "truth" in it than Nashville_brook. That's a great story and you keep telling yourself that so that you feel good about being right and making someone else wrong, we all do it, but you just do it "better" than most, feeling superior makes one feel good, I do it all the time to feel good. We should all bow down to your superior knowledge and fact interpretation abilities......a skill mainly used to make others wrong so that you can be right, no matter the cost. Good Luck running your racket.
Lou

[pasto76]

83. did you miss the large republican gains last november?

the republican controlled house? Public opinion is much closer to reality than you are.

[nashville_brook]

105. the 4-million pound gorillazasaurus in the room

[bluestate10]

127. I agree with the poster. Add up another outlier. In reality, the poster

and me are part of the dominant political block, Realists.

[WinkyDink]

51. Oh, YOU KNOW, though? The "average voter" elected the FIRST AFRICAN -AMERICAN. I think that's not

exactly a pussy-footing move to the Center.

[phleshdef]

78. Are you saying the center is racist?

[Enthusiast]

52. Polls?

[nashville_brook]

67. precisely.

[phleshdef]

77. Did I fucking stutter?

Gallup: 68% of Democrats and 60% of independents said they wanted Congress to, "Agree to a budget compromise, even if that means they pass a bill you don't agree with".

NBC/WSJ: Two-thirds of independents (66%) said they preferred a compromise, while just 30% said the GOP should stand firm. Additionally, 64% of Democrats said they'd rather see Democrats make a deal than hold out for a shutdown.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/majority-of-republicans-favor-government-shutdown-over-budget-compromise.php

[nashville_brook]

80. "a compromise" doesn't mean giving away the entire store.

[phleshdef]

82. You obviously don't know "what the entire store" even is.

Its definately a lot bigger than any deal thats been made thus far. The problem is, you are speaking about "the entire store" without having any grasp of what the store actually is.

[nashville_brook]

89. the GOP knows Obama will not fight when they take hostages -- next up Debt Ceiling

[DirkGently]

119. Tada. But Beltway logic on public opinion does not resemble our Earth logic.

[fascisthunter]

63. lol

[bluestate10]

126. Progressives love to lie to themselves. Their first lie is that they

are the democratic base and must be appeased first. Their stark reality is that they can make victory margins larger, but don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning statewide or national elections on their own. Their "power" is confined to small enclaves of some cities and regions of states. Moderate democrats and democratic leaning independents win elections and it is that group that will battle the republican bullshit with society first alternatives that can be accomplished.

[nashville_brook]

139. i absolutely LOVE this argument that "progressives are not the base"

because it completely negates any further argument that we owe the party any sort of support. The Party of "Not You Guys."

[HankyDubs]

149. absolutely

marginalize us and insult us. Win elections with the "middle" that only wakes up for a few days every four years. See how that works out for ya.

[TBF]

155. When all people see is FAUX news then that's what they are going to think -

and face it if FAUX news didn't already exist the democratic party would have to create it as a whipping boy.

[DirkGently]

6. We're not living in Clinton's first term. Obama & too many Dems fail to understand that.

Playing defense and aiming for the Republican-defined middle is what got us to the point where we're wondering if anyone can actually stop Republicans from destroying Planned Parenthood and the EPA, so Dems can try to look like reasonable flexible grownups

Reasonable flexible grownups know when to raise their voices and tell the kids to cut the crap.

Reasonable flexible grownups don't bargain with red-faced two-year-olds who are playing with fire because they don't know or don't care about the consequences.

Time to put the angry children in the corner and put out the fire.

[nashville_brook]

14. reasonable flexible grownups don't let the children steal all their money

and then capitulate to demands for more allowance, dessert-only dinner and no bed time.

[phleshdef]

21. We might as well be. The only difference in the political culture is more cable news and internet.

Aside from that, you are talking a bunch of bravado nonsense. We don't have the power to put the angry children in the corner. The angry children got enough of themselves elected that they get a say, whether we like it or not.

[nashville_brook]

27. oh yeah -- who MADE us extend the Bush tax cuts?

[phleshdef]

29. Basically the jobs recession. Refusing to extend unemployment and raising middle class taxes would..

...probably have caused a lot of really undesirable economic effects while the economy is on weak footing. If it were on stronger footing, we could have handled it fine. But thats not the reality. Only a total fool would allow a huge middle and lower class tax increase and a cut off of unemployment benefits to take place while GDP is tip toeing upward and unemployment is still hanging around 9%, a complete and absolute fool. Extending tax cuts for the rich SUCKED. But the immediate consequences of the alternative would have been a lot more devastating than not raising the rate 4% on the highest earners right now.

Look, I wanna see the wealthy assholes who have played class warfare games for their own gain gets theirs in ways that would make Michael Moore blush. But I'm not willing to take chances with the currently fragile backbone of the middle class economy in order to do it. I am passionate about my ideology, but I'm not THAT in love with it.

[nashville_brook]

31. that's bullshit -- if Obama wanted to create jobs, he had 2 years to do so.

[phleshdef]

38. And he has. Historically, jobs always take awhile to fully recover after a deep recession.

You can't expect 8+ million jobs to just reappear in such a short amount of time and 2 years is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of time and how it tends to relate to economic forces in a country such as ours. But thats neither here nor there. The fact is, when the crisis is still in motion, you have to make decisions regarding the here and now. And in the here and now, until unemployment is normal and GDP is normal, only a complete fool would allow a massive middle class tax increase and a halt in unemployment aid, if they could help it. That would have been significant amounts of money coming out of the pockets of people that would actually feel it. Raising taxes on the wealthy HAS to be done, but it takes a backseat to middle class economic recovery, period.

[nashville_brook]

41. keep hope alive

[Enthusiast]

48. There will be no middle class economic recovery

UNTIL taxes are raised on the wealthy, period.

[olegramps]

60. There will be no jobs recovery until we tariff.

The Founding Fathers realized a very basic concept that in order to build a strong economy industry had to be encouraged through the use of tariffs. Until the Civil War all revenues were derived from tariffs. The result was the development of a powerful industrial base especially in the North. Only minimal income taxes were imposed until WWII. One of the major factors in our successful struggle against the Germany and Japanese war machines was the power industrial base the the nation had developed because of these policies. These were not tariffs on minor goods, but on key industrial products. For example Japan following WWII did not exclusively use tariffs to develop the industry. They protected their markets with lengthy costly procedures that were required to gain access to their markets that included licensing, safety requirements, incorporation and miles of red-tape. We allowed the corporations along with their flunky paid for representatives in congress to pass so-called Free Trade practices that effectively but us out of business to feed their insatiable greed. People talk of recovery. Just what are you going to recover with when the key industries have all been out-sourced. It would take someone as ruthless and effective as Huey Long to ever right this ship and I guarantee you Obama doesn't make the grade.

[nashville_brook]

79. damn good point. "free" trade is betrayal of all working americans.

all you have to do is look at Detroit to see the ultimate effect of free trade.

[Enthusiast]

154. I'm with you 100%

Thanks.

[phleshdef]

81. You have no clue what your talking about do you?

We won't fix the deficit until we raise taxes on the wealthy. But you can have an unfixed deficit and a well employed middle class at the same time. There is no fucking rule that says otherwise. You are just making shit up now.

[nashville_brook]

90. is there a critique in there somewhere?

[HankyDubs]

144. I just love this attitude

Use the moral force of our ideals to win elections, but as soon as you take power, you spend the whole time minimizing and marginalizing us. Now we are "enclaves in cities." So you don't need the cities? You don't need us? Fuck you.

Do you make your owns skin crawl with this bullshit?

[nashville_brook]

158. +1

[Lorien]

132. +1. The money needs to be back in circulation. The corporations need to pay

their fair share as well.If they aren't taxed they'll not feel the need to hire more workers to offset a tax burden.

[nashville_brook]

141. right now they're sitting more than $3 TRILLION -- where's the jobs?

the money is there. it's a lie that giving them more money will create jobs.

[RC]

107. Well for starts our government can stop rewarding corporations for shipping jobs overseas.

Our government can rescind bu$h's tax cuts on the well to do.
Our government can stop subsidizing multinational corporations that do not pay any or very little taxes in the first place.
Our government can stop 3 wars and stop funding/supplying many more wars and skirmishes.
Our government can cut the so-called defense budges by 2/3.
Our government can start being responsive to the people in this country, instead of the wealthy and big business.
Out government can institute Single Payer, Universal Health Care. To kick start it, nationalize the health insurance companies.
8+ million jobs would start appearing very shortly after that - as in weeks or months.

Raising taxes on the wealthy needs to be done before any real recovery can begin because they are sitting on most of the money needed for any real recovery!

Not Taxing the "Middle class" is republican misdirection, spin and outright lies. We need to realistically define middle class for starts.

$40,000?
$50,000?
$75,000?
$100,000?
$150,000?
$200,000?
$250,000?

[grahamhgreen]

111. Disagree. you pass that as a stand alone bill. Simple.

[DirkGently]

123. Clinton was presiding over a prosperous, peaceful America. Notice anything different now?

[Zenlitened]

24. "Reasonable flexible grownups know when to raise their voices and tell the kids to cut the crap."

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Excellent post.

[TheKentuckian]

19. Most people are pretty stupid and/or disengaged.

Those people haven't a clue what the issues are they just like old bullshit that sounds even Steven.

If we would define points and cease pretending the TeaPubliKlans had valid and reasonable points then enough would abandon them to win pretty consistently. Plus, we might be able to engage some of the dropouts and third party folks if we better defined a people's agenda.

There is no path to victory your way, none. It is only a matter of how far the Reich advances their batshit agenda.

[phleshdef]

22. I don't have any illusions of there being a "path to victory" at all at this time.

Until progressives get a majority, a REAL majority, with half+1 members in the House and 60 members in the Senate, all true progressives, then all this talk about "victory" is utter fantasy BS.

But in the meantime, we still have a god damn country to run. And its one controlled by voters. And a lot of those voters are in fact, as you said, stupid and disengaged. Regardless, those stupid and disengaged people gave Republicans enough power to do a lot of damage. And until there is another election, there really isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Its the cards the voters dealt the country and now we have to play them. Thats reality and all the hard headed, principled progressivism in the world is not going to change that dynamic. Only the voters can do that and for now, they have not.

[nashville_brook]

42. oh gee -- like in 2008. lot of damn good that did us.

[phleshdef]

85. No because that didnt happen in 2008. We were about 5 progressive Senators shorts.

Give or a take a number.

[nashville_brook]

91. but the GOP can completely RUN the country into the ground with only the House.

every wonder about that?

[phleshdef]

95. No. Only someone that doesn't understand how legislation works would need to wonder.

Congress gets to say whether or not something gets funded and at what level of funding it gets. If they don't approve it, it doesn't happen, period. There is not one thing any President can do to reverse Congresses decision to fund something at a lower level than it was funded the previous year. The President can deny them funding they have approved. The President can not, however, add funding to something they didn't approve funding for, which is the ignorant premise your criticisms are coming from.

So if you actually "wonder" about that, I suggest a basic civics course.

[nashville_brook]

100. yes, we all know that -- so, why can't Dems apply that pressure when they're in control of the House

that is the question.

and, i'll go ahead and give you the answer since you're so adorable with your faux outrage...it's b/c the Dem Party will not allow a real fight for American workers since that would upset their corporate funders.

have a nice day.

[phleshdef]

106. Except thats utter bullshit. A great deal of progressive stuff passed Nancy Pelosi's house.

But it could not get past a filibuster in the Senate. We never had 60 progressive senators willing to thwart that effort. We were close but this is legislation, not horse shoes.

[TheKentuckian]

92. Republicans in the wilderness never take that tact. They work to always advance their agenda and to

stymie ours.

The reality of the situation is the wealth of the nation and the control of resources continues to be funneled to the few at the expense of the many and profit centers in dangerous and counter-productive industries are protected by the system, our civil liberties continue to erode, our education system is being deliberately deformed and steers young people away from critical thinking, questioning authority, creativity, and at this point understanding of subject matter.

Principle does matter, without it the things "getting done" tend to be booby traps and prizes for the have mores at the detriment of the many. The wealthy are not flailing about, they know what they want and never deviate from the path.

Your construct is not beneficial and as such must be opposed in victory and defeat. Winning popularity contests from a bunch of short term thinkers isn't winning any future that I'd wish even on my worst enemy.

I don't get the mentality that places more value on tactical victories than strategic defeats. Always it is an election with you. Elections are a means not an end.

[DirkGently]

121. "tactical victory over strategic defeat." The essence of the "you just don't understand politics"

attacks in this thread.

Great post.

[grahamhgreen]

113. Most people - 81% - want to tax the rich.

[WinkyDink]

50. Clinton gave us 8 years of, wait for it, PEACE AND PROSPERITY.

[tcaudilllg]

72. Perceptions are created by actions.

Conservative extremists respect only strength. They must be crushed. Obliquely.

[tcaudilllg]

73. So much for the fight Obama was "ready to have".

I wonder how much tougher it will be on the people hurt by these cuts. And there will be more coming as our evil defense spending continues to grow.

[grahamhgreen]

114. Most people - 81% - want to tax the rich.

[Zorra]

148. *Sigh of disgust*. Because 14 Democratic Senators from Wisconsin went AWOL

in defiance of republican tyranny, Democratic voters in Wisconsin turned out in unprecedented numbers to vote in a spring election for an unknown assistant DA that was running for State Supreme Court Justice.

And Wisconsin ain't exactly the People's Socialist Republic of Wisconsin.

Most people don't see the world as we do?

If you haven't noticed, Democrats all across the country are reenergized because 14 State Senators stood up for the people.

We got slaughtered in the last election because Democrats repeatedly capitulated to republican demands.

Despite having large majorities in both Houses of Congress, and the WH, Democrats, because they behaved like spineless dweebs being pushed around by greasy punks in a schoolyard, were embarrassingly ineffective.

People admire bravery in the face of bullies. They do not admire cowardice.

Nobody gets real excited about voting for spineless losers.

Democrats need to drop this "we surrender, please, take our lunch money, boo-hoo please please don't hurt me attitude" if they genuinely want to regain/retain any majorites in congress and hang on to the Presidency.

[nashville_brook]

160. spot on!

[Scuba]

156. Only because people like you are naysayers. n/t

[Zax2me]

159. Great analysis

Spot on. Loved your last line!

[sasha031]

2. we are in desperate need of our own tea party

it's going to take all of us to change things.

would of been a beautiful thing had the Dem's fought against those tax cuts.

[nashville_brook]

4. not just beautiful -- but it would have made it impossible for the GOP to argue for these cuts

we're in this budget mess b/c of Bush's tax cuts and the wars. and these two things which no one but the rich war-mongers wanted, are the sole arguments for cutting Medicare, Social Security...not to mention all the chaos going on in the states with union busting, and the effective end to public education.

[sasha031]

5. when the tax cuts were extended we knew we would end up here

when I hear people talk of compromise on this board:puke: that's why I don't post often

Wisconsin has inspired me as well as many I am sure.

we really have to start organizing,

there are more of us than them....

[nashville_brook]

10. i've been taking in dialogue on other progressive sites lately, and am floored at the

antipathy toward this administration vis a vis Wisconsin. It seems to me that the union fight up there has been game changer, and the media establishment along with The Beltway have failed to recognize that the ship has turned and is heading in a different direction.

and hell yes there are more of us than them.

[SusanaMontana41]

87. Right there with you, sasha. Obama compromise = capitulation.

And who wrote that horrible speech last night? Lauding symbols while he takes food out of the mouths of poor women and children?

I am so done with him.

[DirkGently]

16. Why is no one trotting the Defense Spending elephant around the room whenever Republicans start

talking about taking $500 from NPR to "balance the budget?" Or the ludicrous tax policies for corporations and the rich? It's nonsense. We know it and they know it, but somehow, "we" have established that you can't mention any of things, no matter how extreme the situation?

If Dems aren't willing to counter destructive conservative fantasy with truth, we'll just slowly amble off this cliff we're dancing on.

[cameozalaznick]

96. Okay, who here has dem reps and/ or senators?

Do you communicate with them on a regular basis, or do you just spend all your free time bitching about things? Mine are all pubs, but I still take time on a regular basis to communicate with them. Call, write letters, visit the office in person, organize a demonstration through move on. Whatever. Just DO something.

[DirkGently]

108. I think we all do those things. And we discuss it here as well. Calling it "bitching" is a non-point

[treestar]

57. Maybe the fact that we don't

Is the reason we don't get as much of what we want.

[mazzarro]

7. A part of me is envious of the way reThugs stand firm for the wishes

of their base unlike Dems that capitulate even before the fight is engaged.

[gateley]

8. They know how to stand as one they know how to spout the talking points,

they're really good at that. Why we don't take notice and do the same is beyond me.

[sasha031]

11. as the saying goes getting Democrats together is like herding cats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

I couldn't resist

[treestar]

59. The demand to criticize and not march in lock step

along with the demand that we have the power the Republicans have due to their homogenous nature is one of the most unreasonable parts of the professional left.

[nashville_brook]

15. what's happening is that Dems are coming to believe that our party feeds from the same trough

and so the party is breeding cynicism among the base. people who are deeply cynical don't vote. Obama knew that in 2008 and so his message was "believe." belief is the opposite of cynicism, and those who are strong in their belief will get to the polls come hell or high water.

i simply don't see how we can dial back the cynicism without any REAL political fights being fought.

[DirkGently]

18. Precisely. People don't vote defensively. They vote for principled ACTION.

...we seem to be lacking both.

[nashville_brook]

28. and without a giant dot-com bubble economy, i'm imaging crickets in Nov next year

[DirkGently]

30. "Lesser evil" sure isn't going to carry the day. Neither is Clintonion water treading. Midterms?

[nashville_brook]

44. "lesser evil"? it'd be one thing if Obama EVER spent ANY political capital on US

i think it's way more evil to never lift a finger for us and then claim victory, than it is for Republicans to do what Republicans do. We're being lied to. But hey! That kindergarten class is going to have a great time at the Washington Monument.

i want to vomit.

[russspeakeasy]

71. Exactly... Pick a damn fight and I'll let you know which side I'm on.

But for christ's sake fight for something.

[DirkGently]

13. Playing not to lose doesn't fly when things are as bad as they are now. The time to smile sweetly

... is long past. As it stands, no one is even bothering to point out that "budget cuts" aren't what's going on here. I guess the idea is to pretend the Republicans and their Tea Party screechers are cute, and can be made to settle down.

That's not working. They're pushing farther, and the extreme right is becoming mainstream. If we don't define this fight and give ourselves permission to call this bare-knuckle, life-or-death attack on middle class America for what it is, we will lose the ability to do so when these nightmare proposals come up the next time. And the next.

We can't live out here on the precipice, pushing back no further than "Gee, eliminating Medicare seems a bit much, dontcha think?" forever.

[nashville_brook]

47. bringing library books to a cage fight

[treestar]

58. Then we should march in lockstep, no?

Why is it that the point about how we must not walk in lockstep is never acknowledged? Whose wishes should our politicians "stand up for?" We are not as homogenous as the republicans.

[rhett o rick]

64. Right, some of us are DINO's. Take the DLC for example. They call themselves

Democrats but their values resemble Republicans. Can you relate to that???

[rzemanfl]

9. I'd rather imagine I am getting it on with my 22 year-old hot

imaginary girlfriend. Read the "imagine" editoral in the Madison Capital Times today.

[nashville_brook]

12. link?

and not to the imaginary girlfriend :evilgrin:

[rzemanfl]

17. You have to get your own imaginary girlfriend but here:

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_be206ecd-4b8d-571a-9fa2-cb4e5bf8e668.html

[bvar22]

20. If the Democrats did THAT...

...they would enjoy the support of an overwhelming MAJORITY of Americans!

[nashville_brook]

25. it'd be like UFO disclosure...we'd all be like "is THIS happening?"

[Poboy]

34. okay, that graphic is hilarious!

[nashville_brook]

39. and then the space aliens came down and Obama grew a spine -- it was amazinnnnnng!

[bullwinkle428]

36. ...

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

:toast:

[grahamhgreen]

37. Must see gfx

[DirkGently]

134. Okay -- THAT'S funny.

:rofl:

[cyberpj]

56. But they didn't, which tells you exactly who's support they care about.. nt.

[Poboy]

32. Super K&R

[grahamhgreen]

35. The saddest thing - IF THEY DID NOTHING, the cuts would have expired, and they failed at that.

[Poboy]

45. an important notation of disgust!

[russspeakeasy]

74. Exactly. Why didn't they just sit with their hands in their laps

It's what they do best.

[WinkyDink]

49. Well, then they would've been Democrats---instead of weak, spineless, craven quislings.

[nashville_brook]

97. Quislings is such an apt word!

[oldlib]

53. Thats exactly what they should do.

This shutdown debate has empowered the GOP beyond their ability. The Democrats should stand firm on eliminating the tax cuts for the rich, the funding of the wars that we are involved in, and reducing military spending. Acceptance of these would significantly reduce the USA debt.

[Poboy]

54. !

[fasttense]

55. If there is one thing our Democratic President knows how to do it's how to demoralize

the Democratic base.

[nashville_brook]

76. he has antipathy for anyone who expects him to get his hands dirty

and anyone who sees this mess we're in as anything more than a "gentleman's game."

This attitude that he absolve himself of having skin in the game while the middle class is being destroyed, is not going unnoticed by those of us who expected leadership on these life-and-death issues.

[emald]

61. dems have given in already.

more than halfway. Obama is the most disappointing president I can remember and I am not a young person. his glorying in giving away so much (so much!) made me sick. Harry Reid's tremulous voice (not) had them shaking, huh? BTW, I am no longer a democrat. I won't stay with a party that runs over my ideals as much as the dems have, if I wanted to be treated like shit than I could have been part of the GOP. Democrats, the party of hope and change, that never happens.

[Fuddnik]

62. They should have.

Trickle down Friedmanomics are a proven failure. If the Dems had stood up, there would be no deficit to squawk about. Remember those surpluses?

Remember the pledge to repeal the cuts?

[nashville_brook]

66. oh, he'll get around to that (promise!) once we re-elect him!

i can't wait for that stump speech.

[Lorien]

131. Yeah, I've been wondering what the slogan will be this time around as well

so far they've floated "Are you in?" which says nothing-kind of like "hope and change".

[KittyWampus]

65. Sorry, in your little scenario when the Dems finally compromised you'd then be posting on DU about

how spineless they were.

You wouldn't be energized except to further trash elected Democrats.

[nashville_brook]

69. actually, that's your "little world" -- in the real world, Dems want Dems to fight for us.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

109. Harry Truman STANDS with YOU!

Harry Truman also predicted the "Democratic" electoral disaster of 2010.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."---Harry Truman

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[nashville_brook]

140. my democratic roots are showing!

[rhett o rick]

68. As long as we frame this as a Democrat vs. Republican war, we have no chance.

The fact is our corporate overlords own a significant chunk of the Democratic Party. This is a war between the Ruling Class and the Lower Classes, and the members of Congress are members in good standing (at least most of them) in the RULING CLASS. Some are apparently willing to fight for us, but not most.

Why can there be major election fraud w/o major Democratic Party outcry? Because it is very important that the masses continue to think there is a possibility of controlling the government.

The DLC, a significant power in the Democratic Party, has been funded by our corporate overlords. It is absurd to think they represent the lower classes.

[nashville_brook]

70. this became obvious when the Dem Party abandoned WI b/c of WH pressure

many of us knew it already -- but that betrayal was an eye opener for many on the ground who were expecting the national party to come in and support them...day after day, and no support...people learn the lesson in a big way.

[russspeakeasy]

75. Lesson learned. Nobody's coming to help.

[rhett o rick]

86. BINGO

[KittyWampus]

101. Abandoned WI? You have no grasp of the situation & its sad your posts are given credence.

[nashville_brook]

102. did i miss the giant, victorious appearance of Obama "walking the picket line" in comfy shoes?

got link?

[KittyWampus]

103. No, but you missed the FACT that WI did not want him there.

You missed the REALITY that Obama would have turned the fight into pure partisanship.

You really don't understand politics.

[nashville_brook]

104. oh right -- all those workers losing their rights, and the LAST they'd want is their president

to support them.

[DirkGently]

115. Did they want their President ordering Dems not to help at all?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x600018


Someone certainly doesn't understand something. Like the fact that American workers are fighting for their lives while the leader of the party that's supposed to fight for them, and who campaigned specifically on doing that, has chosen to not only stand mute himself, but to attempt to remove the Democratic Party from the struggle entirely.

[Lorien]

133. You speak for all of Wisconsin? Wow.

And I'm sorry, but you're the one not facing reality here. Obama does not support unions, period. If he did, he wouldn't be so keen on privatizing public schools-AND he would have been as supportive of the protesters as he was of his beloved insurance mandate.

[nashville_brook]

142. +1, +1 and +1 -- three great points.

[femrap]

84. I see that gov't and local

funds in the DC can't be used to pay for abortions of poor women. Do you know how many women live in poverty in DC?

I hope the Poor Women of DC march to Congress and tie some dicks in a knot!!!

And don't think that repugnant men are the only ones who hate women....there are many dems who hate women as well. They like having women as 2nd Class property.

May the Rich choke on your money and die.

[nashville_brook]

88. Congress treats DC like their personal slave state - highest poverty + taxed w/no representation

http://news.change.org/stories/our-national-embarrassment-washington-dc

Our National Embarrassment, Washington, D.C.

Some disheartening news from the DC Fiscal Policy Institute: An estimated 11,000 additional D.C. residents fell into poverty last year, representing the largest year-over-year increase in the number of poor Washingtonians since 1995.

According to a report released by the Institute last week, the poverty rate in the District rose from 16.9 percent in 2008 to a staggering 18.9 percent in 2009. That means some 106,500 people were living below the federal poverty line ($21,800 for a family of four in 2009). It also puts D.C. among the very poorest states in the nation, surpassed only by Mississippi when compared to 2008 data.

The report ties this increase to the District's rising unemployment rate, which hit 11.9 percent by the end of 2009, and food stamp caseloads, which were on average 16 percent higher last year than they were in 2008. Although hard data is not yet available for 2010, the report predicts that both unemployment and food stamp caseload rates will go up this year, meaning that poverty rates will probably increase as well. (Hopefully President Obama, just blocks away at the White House, was thinking of his neighbors when he signed a jobs bill in March.)

Unfortunately, this terrible news is not surprising, as our nation's capital has been plagued by poverty for decades. In D.C., fully one-third of residents are low-income, meaning they live below twice the federal poverty line; the child poverty rate is an astounding 32 percent, compared to the national average of 18 percent; income inequality is greater than in almost any other major U.S. city; and one-fifth of working residents make less than $11 per hour.

[Octafish]

93. Outstanding observations and analysis.

Since 2006, the quislings have worked to prevent our agenda from moving forward.

[nashville_brook]

94. thanks Octafish!

:)

[ArcticFox]

98. The Bush tax cuts expired

Obama owns them now.

But I agree with your sentiment.

I think it's all just a game. The dems pretend to be for us, but just to keep us from revolting.

[I Drink Water]

110. Or the wars, or civil liberties, or closing tax loopholes, etc. Dems could use some brass.

[Jim_Shorts]

112. The repukes are playing chicken

What do you do when someone keeps crossing over the center line and driving in your lane? We have been forced off the road and are now driving in the field (doesn't work vary well - the ride is getting bumpier) We can continue being the responsible and pragmatic ones and continue moving further out into the field or we can change our approach.

Instead of always being on defense, we have to go on OFFENSE. What if we start diving on the street again, but not in our lane but their lane. What if we DEMAND raising the top tax bracket to 90%. (it was done before) What if we DEMAND raising corporate taxes and not let them say their headquarters are in the Cayman Islands. What if LOWER the age for SS (like they have in europe) ect. ect..

I agree with you Nashville, its just that the dems are so used to being the whipping boy, they are starting to enjoy it. Obama is very affable and as someone said on here "has a very nice family". He will never go on the offence and submit a budget that demands we drive on the street again. It is going to be up to us at the grassroots to organize and create a new paradigm.

[DirkGently]

117. "OFFENSE." The best defense, some say. And the ONLY way to advance. Very well said.

[nashville_brook]

145. agree 100% -- it's up to the grassroots to move the debate to the left.

no more "go along to get along."

To paraphrase your post..."When the GOP swerves down life's highway, they're running us off the road."

[obxhead]

116. Energized to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent as well.

Dems take ANOTHER opportunity to give it to the Repubs and instead they decide to cater the Repub feast.

[ecstatic]

118. Does a government shutdown affect you personally? I think the people

who would be out of work or without their expected loans are the only ones who can honestly push for a shutdown. Basically, you're advocating: "I got mine! F*ck you!"

[DirkGently]

120. Then we will always lose, b/c Republicans will always threaten disaster.

[ecstatic]

122. True. The problem is, the dems who have media access

are not calling them out for what they are. Exposing their hypocrisy, etc.

[DirkGently]

124. Yes. Which is the way I took the OP. Dems aren't driving the discussion, making demands.

[bluestate10]

125. You obviously have not been watching news after the agreement.

The republican base is coming out of the agreement torn into many pieces. The extremists feel Boehner sold out and are set to primary him. Bachmann is talking out of both sides of her mouth. Cantor looked like someone shoved a pipe up his ass last night as the agreement was announced by Boehner. If you think the republican base is happy, think again. Democrats took the center from republicans during negotiations, now Boehner is left with nothing more than a frothing core.

[d_b]

128. +100

the democratic party is fucking useless.

[Citizen Worker]

129. "And we're coming out of it with the knowledge that our party will meet them "more than halfway."

And democrats will call it a victory! Many will believe it and continue to back democrats.

[nashville_brook]

153. agreed -- another problem is that those who really care can't stand to watch it anymore

and they're turning off. who wants to come home from another shitty day at work to turn on the news and behold all the ways we're getting by our party?

people need to feel like their political life has meaning -- that's what's always exploited during campaign season. then we're betrayed and there's years of cynicism to overcome before we can organize effectively again.

[piratefish08]

130. Imagine if a Dem Congress demanded ANYTHING. anything at all. just imagine.

[leftstreet]

135. K&R

Sadly, the only method the Democrats are willing to use to "energize" the base is getting them to hate Republicans

Give it a few election cycles and the Dems will be back in form

:banghead:

[nashville_brook]

138. there's only so much traction we'll be able to get from "the other guys suck"

especially when we prove repeatedly that our difference are only a matter of degree.

[louslobbs]

147. K&R for being a free thinker and not letting anyone push you around. I read what your post actually

said, others tend to read a post filtered through their stories, which is totally ok, it's not right or wrong, it is what it is, but I know one thing, you are on the side of what is right, and I will defend your right to express yourself and your interpretation of fact just as I would anyone on this board (even though you do not need my defending).
With Respect,
Lou

[nashville_brook]

150. awww! thanks!

:hug:

[louslobbs]

151. You are welcome nashville_brook.

Lou

[pnwmom]

136. Invincible? And then how would you feel when the shutdown

didn't accomplish anything except alienate Independents?

[bvar22]

152. That would NOT happen IF...

...Obama took a page out of Clinton's Playbook 1994
instead of praying to Saint Ronald Reagan.

Instead of OWNING the "shutdown" like Obama did,
Clinton tossed it right back into the laps of the Republicans...where it belonged.
Read up on Bill Clinton's handling of the 1994 Shutdown.
(And I am NO fan of Bill NAFTA Clinton)

[mckara]

137. That Would Have Been Politically Popular!

Democrats only shoot their supporters in the foot!

[Zorra]

143. Bravo! The perfect analogy that exactly describes what so many of us

are thinking. Well done, thanks.
:applause:

[inna]

157. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours