Guess what? Religion was instrumental in Civil War

[hyphenate]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/08/civil.war.today/

Strangely enough, this article points out that fundies helped launch the most costly war fought by America, on American soil. And as we know now, this hasn't really changed in 150 years.
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(snip)

But you don't have to tour a battlefield to understand the Civil War. Look at today's headlines. As the nation commemorates the 150th anniversary of its deadliest war this week, some historians say we're still fighting over some of the same issues that fueled the Civil War.

"There are all of these weird parallels," says Stephanie McCurry, author of "Confederate Reckoning," a new book that examines why Southerners seceded and its effect on Southern women and slaves.

"When you hear charges today that the federal government is overreaching, and the idea that the Constitution recognized us as a league of sovereign states -- these were all part of the secessionist charges in 1860," she says.

"Living history" on Civil War battlefields

These "weird parallels" go beyond the familiar debates over what caused the war, slavery or states' rights. They extend to issues that seem to have nothing to do with the Civil War.

The shutdown of the federal government, war in Libya, the furor over the new health care law and Guantanamo Bay -- all have tentacles that reach back to the Civil War, historians say.


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[bluestateguy]

1. Remember that abolitionists were deeply religious people too

And yes, many Southern Baptists also thought that slavery was ordained by the Bible as holy and good.

[inademv]

2. The key difference is

Slavery actually is ordained by the Bible.

[kiva]

3. Ummm, you recognize that religion was largely the tool

of the abolitionists, right? Yes, slaveowners used the Bible and Christianity to justify slavery, but many prominent abolitionists were Christian, and used religiously-based moral arguments - Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin is a good example.

[Lyric]

6. If you read the article, that point is talked about.

It basically says that because BOTH sides were using hyper-religious rhetoric to bolster their views, the conflict changed from a political conflict into a religious war. When your opponents are labeled "infidels", "sinners", and "ungodly", it becomes impossible to deal with the conflict rationally. When you plop God down on your side of the ideological battle, any compromise becomes impossible because you can't morally compromise with sinners and heathens. Not the the Northerners *should* have compromised on slavery, but if the rhetoric had stayed away from religious-crusade territory, we might have been able to broker a political solution that didn't require the deaths of 620,000 people.

What drives me the craziest are the Southerners who INSIST that the war wasn't about slavery, but was instead about "states' rights". That is complete and utter bullshit. If protecting states' rights to decide for THEMSELVES whether or not they wanted to be slave states was the most important reason for the Civil War, then WHY did the Confederate Constitution enshrine slavery as a federal institution? That constitution took AWAY the rights of Confederate states to decide the slavery question for themselves, and turned slavery into a federally-protected, individual right that no state could violate. States' rights my ASS.

[hyphenate]

10. Actually, the point of the article

is how much the reasons leading up to the Civil War are so uncannily similar to the things going on now. We are once again dealing with people who are willing to destroy the country--and the world--because of their radical and horrible beliefs. We should know better, but dealing with these people hasn't really changed in the past 150 years--only the crazies are just 150 times more dangerous.

[PM Martin]

4. Weren't many abolitionists also religious too?

On one hand the Southern Baptists had, and it appears to still have some horrifically archaic beliefs. On the other hand there were reformers within the religious community
who understood that slavery went against the teachings of Christ.

[iemitsu]

8. of course slavery isn't the issue today

but cheap labor that is not represented by unions.
this article does a good job comparing the political conflicts from before the civil war to those of today.

[darkstar3]

5. Yet another thread that demonstrates

the "usefulness" of religion.

[hyphenate]

11. I've seen both sides of the religious issue

I grew up as a Catholic, and proclaimed myself lapsed by the time I was 16. I might call myself an atheist now, but I've been known to be more receptive to a wide range of ideas. I think there are some great philosophies in the world, but the most populated religions in the world are definitely ALL bad in their own way.

The usefulness of any religion depends on who is preaching it--it's been kind of hard worldwide when it's mostly megalomaniacs who use religion to control and manipulate others. One of the chief uses of religion was when despots used it to quell revolution: it's difficult to keep people under your thumb if they don't believe in an afterlife, where all their diligence will be rewarded.

[antigone382]

7. I attend what was the first multiracial, coeducational school in the south...

...founded by a radical evangelical Christian abolitionist.

Religion is a human institution, which like every other human institution, can be used to perpetuate great good, or great evil--as great a level of good or evil as the people who participate in it. It has played a complex, multifaceted role in most of human history, and certainly the Civil War is no exception. However, students of human cultures have consistently found that many of the features of religion or spirituality within a particular society serve to underpin the values which that society has found adaptive, rather than imposing values arbitrarily; thus, religion is no more to blame for societal wrongs perpetuated in its name than science is wrong for the societal wrongs (such as eugenics, "rational" war, and the patholigizing of women's anxieties stemming from patriarchy) perpetuated in its name, or upon its principles. Viewing religion as the ultimate source of human action, whether good or for evil, is reductionist and counterproductive.

Furthermore, a cornerstone of rational behavior is the acknowledgement of fallibility in one's own worldview, and the willingness to acknowledge the potential legitimacy of other worldviews, so long as they do not restrict yours. Science is an extraordinary tool, and very useful at describing life and explaining its various features and processes. However, it cannot in itself give meaning to life--meaning is inherently subjective and impossible to concretely define through scientific methods. Nevertheless, that a sense of life's purpose is essential to a positive human experience is undeniable from a psychological perspective. Those who choose to employ religion, spirituality, or even a field as unscientific and subjective as philosophy to define life's significance, are within reason, and more certainly within their rights, to do so.

I say this as an atheist, whose sense of life's meaning is largely informed by existentialist philosophy.

Edited for an accidentally ommitted phrase.

[Zoeisright]

9. Yep. The Bible can be used to support slavery, the death penalty,

And tearing children to pieces because they make fun of an older man.

It's a "great" book all right.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. the bible can also be used to support taxing the rich-

(to whom much is given, much will be required)

not hoarding wealth, or enabling the wealthy to 'keep more of their money'-

(do not store up for youself treasures on earth- sell all that you have, give it to the poor and follow me- )

showing mercy, NOT seeking revenge-
(love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you- if someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also- if someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic- give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back- Do to others as you would have them do to you- )

the bible can be used in many ways, sadly it seems the most ugly and twisted verses seem to be all too popular.

:shrug:

"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."