Went for a walk in Stone Mountain Park yesterday, and came upon a bunch of civil war reenactors

[CatWoman]

and those guys weren't kidding.

They had the Stars and Bars, Confederate uniforms, women dressed in the fashion at the time, and several cannons. I got out of there before the firing began. What a freak show.

Anyway, I often wondered why these people just can't let go.

So today I had a doctor's appt., and just by coincidence, came upon this article in Time Magazine. It pretty much puts things in perspective:

The Way We Weren't

Shortly before the Fort Sumter anniversary, Harris Interactive polled more than 2,500 adults across the country, asking what the North and South were fighting about. A majority, including two-thirds of white respondents in the 11 states that formed the Confederacy, answered that the South was mainly motivated by "states' rights" rather than the future of slavery.

The question "What caused the Civil War?" returns 20 million Google hits and a wide array of arguments on Internet comment boards and discussion threads. The Civil War was caused by Northern aggressors invading an independent Southern nation. Or it was caused by high tariffs. Or it was caused by blundering statesmen. Or it was caused by the clash of industrial and agrarian cultures. Or it was caused by fanatics. Or it was caused by the Marxist class struggle.

It's not simply a matter of denial. For most of the first century after the war, historians, novelists and filmmakers worked like hypnotists to soothe the posttraumatic memories of survivors and their descendants. Forgetting was the price of reconciliation, and Americans — those whose families were never bought or sold, anyway — were happy to pay it.

But denial plays a part, especially in the South. After the war, former Confederates wondered how to hold on to their due pride after a devastating defeat. They had fought long and courageously; that was beyond question. So they reverse-engineered a cause worthy of those heroics. They also sensed, correctly, that the end of slavery would confer a gloss of nobility, and bragging rights, on the North that it did not deserve. As Lincoln suggested in his second Inaugural Address, the entire nation, North and South, profited from slavery and then paid dearly for it.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2063679,00.html#ixzz1JG02BrZD

[leftstreet]

1. How come no one ever reenacts Vietnam? n/t

That's an interesting article. Saw it earlier

K&R

[provis99]

3. by burning a villiage and electroshocking captured "Vietcong"?

hey, it'd be accurate.

[leftstreet]

5. ...

:spank:

}(

[CatWoman]

9. I didn't know Dick Cheney posted on DU

:rofl:

[Warren Stupidity]

180. perhaps a mock airplane toss interrogation?

or a re-enactment of this:

[slackmaster]

27. I made some homemade napalm and tested it once

It makes great charcoal lighter.

[saras]

32. It's been considered, at least as a joke

We have a nearby river that would be perfect. A river with a nice park, going into a big delta. A nearby airport. We've joked about making up "Vietnam War Re-Enactment" posters with all sorts of gory details, and then just seeing who shows up on the advertised date.

[KamaAina]

76. Well, first, you'd need a 'Nam-like environment

Hawai'i, the Louisiana bayou, or the Florida Everglades might work.

[catzies]

174. No no, please not the Glades. They've suffered enough.

Although then all the wingnuts already in Florida who would attend/participate surely wouldn't have far to drive. (spoken as a loving native-born)

[grahamhgreen]

81. Or Abu Ghraib?

[RamboLiberal]

93. Guess what - there are Vietnam War reenactors

We are reenactors portraying soldiers from "A" Company, 1/7th Cav., 1st Cavalry Division, (Air mobile) Vietnam, 1967 - 1969. We participate in Living History Events, Historical Studies, Military Displays, Battle Reenactments and Documentaries. We are headquartered in Central PA but recruit members from Maryland, Ohio as well as across the Commonwealth. Our main purpose is to honor ALL veterans from ALL time periods but especially from the Vietnam era. You will NEVER be forgotten!

http://garyowens.webs.com/

http://www.reenactor.net/korea_nam/vietnam.html

And some googling reveals reenactors of U.S. Vietnam units in Europe.

[Honeycombe8]

135. It wasn't here. And it wasn't our civil war. And it didn't happen long enough ago.

All those things.

[LibertyLover]

195. They do - go to any large multi-group reenactment event like

Military through the Ages held each year in Jamestown, VA and you'll see not just Roman legionnaires, medieval and Renaissance solders and Civil War reenactors, but Boer War, World War I and II and Vietnam reenactors as well. It is a fascinating event.

[Bucky]

213. They did reenact Vietnam. Only they called it Iraq.

[provis99]

2. well, republicans also like to dress up like Nazis:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/why-is-this-gop-house-candidate-dressed-as-a-nazi/64319/

I'll bet plenty of these Confederate reenactors also lament the fall of Nazi Germany.

[Donnachaidh]

26. the nazi thing blows my mind

And lots of the people I know here in the South are into *both* eras for re-enacting. But their level of obsession is higher than, say, renassaince re-enactors, who are into the play part of the deal.

We were heavily into renfaires when we lived on the West Coast. My first renfaire visit in Georgia had one guy with gold greives over jeans, a mullet hair cut and a nascar t shirt. Dukes of Hazzard meets Camelot. :rofl:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

106. I had to look up that word.

it's "greaves".

Shin guards.

Rennfests are great for people-watching. I have a pink and black African print skirt I wear.

[Donnachaidh]

110. I knew I spelled that wrong -- oh well

Yeah -- shiny gold greaves OVER jeans.....

I used to love people watching in the West Coast fairs. Here, there's a decided lack of flair in costuming. :shrug:

[csziggy]

139. It's hard to wear really authentic costumes in the Southeastern heat

Mr. csziggy and I used be members of the Society for Creative Anachronism - think Renfaire but between 500 and 1500 AD. The group we were in had Nordic personas. You absolutely cannot dress like an authentic medieval Scandinavian in the North Florida climate. Our winters are warmer than their summers were. Even if you trade unauthentic cottons for wool, the costumes are still too hot for our summers and much of our spring and fall.

I made the most glorious cape out of a remnant of old fake fur that had been irregularly worn so the "fur" was really shaggy looking. Mr. csziggy never got to wear it, though it did make a good pad under our bed roll. One of our members was transferred to Alaska so I ended up giving him the cape - I figured he would actually get to use the darned thing.

Renaissance costumes are even more confining and hot and it is harder to compromise them without losing the style completely.

[Donnachaidh]

191. this particular one was in the spring -- so the heat was not a factor

But I do agree with you on the problems going authentic in the humidity. If the royal entourage in Georgia tried to wear velvets like they did in SoCal, we'd have lots of authenticity in the local emergency room...

[csziggy]

209. As early SCA members we helped work on ways to avoid heat stroke

Especially with early combat and our little battles. We also worked on ways to make padding for under the armor that would not cook the fighters. Our chirugeons developed policies for forcing fighters to take breaks, drink loads of water, take electrolytes and other things that were valuable when they got around to holding the Pensic Wars and other major battles.

[LibertyLover]

197. As a current member of the SCA, I have to say that I'm sorry you

felt you had to do Nordic because other people were. A nice cotton t-tunic on a hot day isn't bad. Heck - I live in Maryland (motto: Don't like our weather? Wait an hour and it will be hotter and more humid!) and wear bog dresses in the summer around the house. A lot of the folks in my home barony do Elizabethan because they are into the whole rapier thing - but there is no way in hell you are getting me into Elizabethan, especially in our summers, so I do early period - either Anglo-Saxon or Viking. Cotton bog dresses rule!

[csziggy]

208. We set up a "household" and our personas fit together nicely

And at that point we were all into Nordic stuff. Later I tried to do a persona based on family history but the Norman persona did not go over well with some of the Anglo-Saxon persona members, LOL! I did get my device approved and that's the most lasting thing I have held on to.

I did have one good outfit that looked authentic but was reasonably comfortable - a cotton shift with a tabard type overdress, both made from crinkled cotton. From ten feet away it almost looked woolen.

We were among the first members of Oldenfeld - I think it is now a shire or Barony, but I have not been involved in over twenty five years.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

175. The one in Magnolia TX, NW of Houston, is fun.

Lots of fun.

I saw a tall woman in a chainmail bikini with a black cape over it. Pretty wild stuff.

Then there was the guy who stood on his hands, gripping each edge of a board, balanced on a cylinder rolling around...
Pretty amazing acrobatics. The guy even admitted he was a crazy physics major... :rofl:

A friend of mine from law school has a son who is brilliant. Got a free scholarship from the U. of chicago to go to Cambridge University and study physics. You know, the place where Stephen Hawking teaches. Took some courses and made straight A's.

What does this kid do with himself? Travels around Europe juggling, and writing papers about the physics of juggling... :rofl:

I love it!!


(I know a lot about techie types....DH has TWO degrees in math/physics, so he's definitely nuts)

[Township75]

4. Civil war reenactments go on everywhere.

As for freaks, well, not everyone who doesn't share your interests are freaks. Some just like history.

[CatWoman]

10. well

la dee fucking da.

[oneshooter]

95. My, what a progressive attitude. n/t

[CatWoman]

98. thank you

*bows*

[Zax2me]

182. That is my response to your original post.

[Wait Wut]

18. I worked at Rennaissance Faires for 16 years...

I don't consider myself a freak...others might. I know adults that still have Halloween parties. Adults like to dress up. Some are history buffs. I don't think it means that they all want us to go back to the civil war. I know I certainly don't wanna live in 14th-15th century England.

[CatWoman]

23. I don't consider you a freak either

I love history.

But I despise bigots.

And this place is full of them.

These people are still fighting this war.

You should see the commercials they run on television.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gascv11#p/u

[spanone]

46. yea, they long for those good old days when you could own a black person

dressing up like confederates is no different than dressing up as nazis imho

[catgirl]

6. Thanks for sharing this CatWoman

It brings new perspective into all of it.

On a side note- regarding your encountering these re-enactors- check out the documentary Darkon. It's worth watching. It's
about a group of people who take their other life- the life of re-enactors- very seriously.

[CatWoman]

13. thanks CG

I will :)

:hi:

[Faygo Kid]

7. I read that article, too. Good stuff.

I'm a big student of the Civil War. It was about slavery. No slavery, no war. Period.

But those reenactors can be hard core, and more than a little strange . . .

[CatWoman]

12. you are re-ven-newer??????

:rofl:

:hi:

[Adsos Letter]

8. I recommend an excellent book to you:

Baptized in Blood: The Religion of the Lost Cause, 1865-1920. (2009) by Charles Reagan Wilson

http://www.amazon.com/Baptized-Blood-Religion-Cause-1865-1920/product-reviews/0820334251/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I included the link to Amazon so you could check out some of the reviews. This work was on my Graduate reading list for the Reconstruction/post-Reconstruction era.

[CatWoman]

14. thank you so very much

I order nearly all my books from Amazon!!!!

:hi:

[Adsos Letter]

29. Two more that were on my reading list, if you are interested:

Both of which relate to the subject at hand, each in their own way:

Scarlett Doesn't Live Here Anymore: SOUTHERN WOMEN IN THE CIVIL WAR ERA (2000) by Laura F. Edwards; Helps explain the role of elite-class Southern women in the formation of the Lost Cause mythology. http://www.amazon.com/Scarlett-Doesnt-Live-Here-Anymore/dp/0252072189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302562831&sr=1-1#_

Shook over Hell: Post-Traumatic Stress, Vietnam, and the Civil War (1997) by Eric T. Dean, Jr. Despite some methodological flaws, this book has an OUTSTANDING couple of chapters which help explain why these reenactments actually fail to present anything like historical accuracy, DESPITE the historical accuracy of the arms, accoutrements, etc.. Reenacting will always be a form of romanticization, in my opinion.
Even the attempts of the "Hardcores" in Horwitz's Confederates in the Attic can't really approach the reality.
http://www.amazon.com/Shook-over-Hell-Post-Traumatic-Vietnam/dp/0674806522/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302563136&sr=1-1#_

[CatWoman]

89. thanks again

:)

[Faygo Kid]

124. Another rec: "Confederates in the Attic." Absolutely compelling.

Funny, thoughtful, disturbing all at once. But a book you just have to read; one of the great page turners of all time.

[arcane1]

11. In elementary school, they took us to one for a field trip

It was definitely a trip!

[CatWoman]

15. hah!!

you should see them on July 4.



They have a laser show on the mountain, and it illuminates the carving of the 3 Confederate leaders (In front is Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, 1861-1865. The central and most prominent figure is that of General Robert E. Lee, and behind him is his right hand man, General Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson.)

It's like they have a mass orgasm!! I'm surprised they don't pull out their shotguns and start blasting in the air :scared:

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. They do go crazy when the laser figures begin to "rise again."

I've gone in the past and it was pretty civil. Very mixed, diverse audience. Has something changed recently? Are Glenn Beck's fans meeting their for a Reunion on the Fourth.

[CatWoman]

30. I went one time some years ago (about 5 or 6)

and haven't been back (not for the 4th celebrations)

[emilyg]

51. I haven't noticed any change.

[Hissyspit]

16. Pew Research today: 60% young people today think states' rights cause of Civil War, not slavery

[CatWoman]

41. check out this commerical the Sons of the Confederacy runs on tv

http://www.youtube.com/user/gascv11#p/u

[Zoeisright]

168. Yeah, tell them to read the Articles of Secession.

Slavery is mentioned every third word.

They can try to whitewash this, and they may think they are getting away with it, but they can't redact the Articles. Assholes.

[xmas74]

217. My daughter was taught just that in school recently.

We live in Missouri, within a very short drive of a battleground.

[Hissyspit]

220. Well, it's bullshit.

The articles of secession use the word slavery all through them.

If you are talking about Pea Ridge in Arkansas, I've been there.

[xmas74]

224. Not even that far away.

There were small battles throughout Missouri. I live closer to KC and we've been to a few sites.

http://mostateparks.com/park/battle-lexington-state-historic-site
http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/mo025.htm
http://www.historiclonejack.org/museum.html
http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/mo/mo022.html
http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/mo003.htm

We've been to all those sites because they are within a ninety minute drive. (I graduated from high school near Glasgow and Boonville.)

None of the sites were huge sites but I felt that they were important for her to visit. I've noticed over the years the guided tours offered at a few have changed in manner. What was once more factual is now more romanticized than ever.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Did they have any Jagerminz S'more-flavored Schnapps?

Respect Mah Confederasah

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Is it safe to go there for the Fourth celebration?

[CatWoman]

21. I certainly wouldn't recommend it

[Zax2me]

185. Oh, the ignorance

Stone Mountain Park not safe - to whom?
And why?

[emilyg]

40. Absolutely. We take the kids.

[CatWoman]

64. the time I went, it made me feel really, really uncomfortable.

[Zax2me]

184. What?!

Safe for whom? From what?

[The Backlash Cometh]

190. Safe from getting in the crossfires of the new world order.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Sorry I don't agree with you that they are freaks

I have no problem with reenactors dressing in and doing reenactments for either side. There are many who do as Union soldiers as well. I enjoy seeing & talking with them.

I've also talked to reenactors from French & Indian war era, Revolutionary war era, and times of frontiersmen & mountain men.

I speak as the great-granddaughter of a Union soldier in the 28th PA.

I'm doing a rare Unrec for calling them freaks.

[CatWoman]

22. I don't have a problem with that

you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

As am I.

[JustAmused]

25. Ho hum

Just another excuse for DU to take a shot at the south. And we wonder why we cant get any traction in the South.

[CatWoman]

28. I live here in the South

and I am MORE than entitled to my opinion.

[provis99]

33. we don't get traction in the South because it's full of right wing white idiots.

Just look at any poll.

And after 25 years of putting up with the idiocy in Mississippi, I'm all for complaining how stupid and backwards most of my white neighbors were. I deliberately exclude black Mississippians from criticism, because most of them seem at least sane.

[leftstreet]

34. Democrats can't get traction in the south because they ignore poverty

But then you probably already know that

[Shagbark Hickory]

42. They re-enact the civil war in the north too, don't give me that shit. nt

[CatWoman]

49. as I don't live in the north, I can't speak to that

however, when I did live in the north, I never saw any such thing.

[Shagbark Hickory]

56. I wasn't aiming that at you.

But they actually do, I used to know someone who did re-enactments in PA.

[Dappleganger]

57. They do on a number of PA battlefields...

as I knew folks from our area in VA who would travel up there to meet groups and do their re-enactment, then the PA groups would come down to VA battlefields and do theirs. It does go on w/both sides, there are history buffs everywhere.

BTW, a dear friend of mine owns a colonial-era farm in the Shenandoah Valley which has one of just a few barns on it which were NOT burned during the Civil War. The reason why was because the family had a son who fought for the Union and another who fought for the Confederacy (as did a number of families in those border states). Each son had a letter of excuse (can't recall what it was technically called) from each side telling the other not to burn it as they had a son on that side. So that's how they were able to escape being burnt (and if it had been, only the roof and walls would be affected but the main base was stone. Their entire farmhouse was stone which had been dug up from their land.

Yes, I love history and enjoy hearing stories like this from both sides. It was an ugly, ugly part of our past but I don't see the benefit in acting as if it never happened. For most people I've met who do this type of stuff it's just a hobby.

[distantearlywarning]

62. Five minutes with a Google search engine

http://www.gettysburgreenactment.com/

http://www.scrantoncivilwarday.com/

https://www.thecivilwardays.com/Home_Page.php (granted, not the "north", but I think most people would agree that California is pretty far removed culturally from the deep south)

http://civilwardays.webs.com/

http://www.1stbrigade.com/jackson-in-the-valley-reenactment.php

http://www.civilwardays.webs.com/

http://www.civilwarreunion.org/

http://www.campgeiger.org/

http://www.lakehistory.org/

http://www.laportecountyhistory.org/

http://sites.google.com/site/tinkercivilwardays/

http://www.musketsandmemories.org/

http://www.lakevillahistory.org/welcome.aspx

http://rosecransheadquarters.org/index.htm

http://civiliansofgettysburg.com/

[Dappleganger]

66. Yep, all up and down the Shenandoah Valley there are battlesites

and many of them have re-enactments each year or every couple of years, from both sides.

[eShirl]

134. lots of Civil War reenactors here in Maine

I personally knew three in highschool; a classmate, his dad, and one of the history teachers.

[Honeycombe8]

137. I think you're taking it too seriously. It's a grown-up guy thing for funsies and release.

Better than hunting, IMO.

Don't forget, also, that many of us in the country had ancestors who fought, and probably died, in that war. It's a part of our history, our heritage, our ancestry....regardless of the reason(s) for the war. It was filled with dramatic battles that both sides won, lots of property damage in the south, many deaths (I forget how many...the toll was tremendous). So it was a very dramatic, very long, very hard fought war that was fought on our soil, between our ancestors.

It's a guy thing. (I'm a woman, but I think I get it. I wouldn't do it, but I think I get it.) I'm glad to say that my brother, who is very right wing, is not inclined to do silly games like that. He doesn't hunt, either.

[RamboLiberal]

+1 on that

Last weekend I watched Gettysburg. Without a ton of reenactors who were willing to give of their time that movie would have been tough to make.

I think the reenactors help to bring history alive.

[Dappleganger]

77. How do you think Ken Burns made his famous documentary?

And yeah, he's a BIG TIME history "fanatic."

[provis99]

84. they do. But here in Indiana, they all dress as Confederates.

no wonder Indiana is the "Mississippi of the North"

[Brigid]

144. Sadly, IN was a hotbed of KKK activity in the 1920s,

Parts of the state still are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Klan

[Zoeisright]

169. Bull. Shit.

I've lived in the North all my life and I have never even heard a WHISPER of a re-enactment.

Liar.

[cordelia]

176. Don't pay attention much, do you?

http://www.cwreenactors.com/index.php

[spanone]

50. i live in the south and we're full of dumbasses...

[RebelOne]

99. Ditto that. I live in Georgia. n/t

[cordelia]

102. Speak for yourself

[emilyg]

140. Not any more or less than the rest of the country.

[Mudoria]

219. You could say the same thing about any region of the country..

[Mojorabbit]

31. I totally agree

I know a ton of people who are SCA, some that do the civil war thing, some who do pioneer reenactment. None of them are freaks.

[Dappleganger]

45. SCA folks are awesome.

I have more fun w/them than any other group we've ever encountered. Our oldest daughter is just beginning to get involved and loves it (and is as liberal as they come).

[RamboLiberal]

48. I'd love to see the reenactors who do the Buffalo Soldiers

Especially the cavalry!

[anneboleyn]

210. I am a history buff myself, so I agree with you. Some guys are really into this stuff as a hobby

and I don't think they are "freaks" either.

[Sherman A1]

221. Agreed

It's a group of people and you will find their viewpoints just as varied as any other group. Some may be hardcore history buffs, some may be off the deep end and want to return to the days of old, some may like bowling, some may like chess, some may grow tulips, some may like football and on and on.

These are people with rights to their opinions (whether we agree with them or not), their lives, their interests, their pastimes, and to speak of them in such sweeping generalizations simply shows one to be rather closed minded themselves.

[KittyWampus]

35. Industrial v. Agrarian. I would actually say this is the prime reason it was fought with slavery

being a major factor playing into that.

[Bucky]

215. That's a valid viewpoint, but only with a LOT of qualifiers. Slavery was the #1 point of conflict

Yes, slavery was part of a lot of southern agrarian culture. But there was a lot of industrialization taking place in parts of the south--places where slavery was flourishing. There were huge areas of slaveless agrarian culture in the north. The West was a political ally of the North--mostly because railroads and the Erie Canal had replaced the Mississippi as the means of exporting western crops, but the near west was almost all farming and there were huge stretches of the west where agriculture wasn't even taking place yet, but there was a mining culture instead.

The south also had areas it was targeting for mining operations (like in New Mexico & Arizona) which would have created nightmarish conditions for millions of Americans trapped in slavery. My main point is that regional & econmic conflicts pop up here and there in the antebellum period, but the only time these conflicts produced the level of ire needed to trigger a secession crisis was when these regional differences led to disputes over the expansion a/o continuation of the slave-owning culture.

[Brickbat]

36. ROFLMAO.

[Dappleganger]

37. That has not been my experience

in our county back in VA there was a yearly re-enactment which was open to everyone, and I don't recall the type of bigotry you describe as being prevalent. These folks were into weaponry and battle strategy, as well as history. Of course there are always opposing views but I don't remember any of it being all one-sided. The participants and attenders didn't seem to be trying to win back anything, just enjoy the study of history. BTW, quite a few were Union re-enactors who came down from PA and it seemed everything was always friendly (this was the Newmarket, VA battlefield).

[KamaAina]

38. Were there any Union re-enactors at all?

:shrug:

Of course, at a cosmic level, the joke's on the Confederate irredentists: over the years, their beloved Stone Mountain has matured into one of the more diverse communities in metro Atlanta!

[provis99]

43. Union soldiers at these reenactments are like the Washington Generals.

The South always magically wins.

[JVS]

82. The only reenactments I've ever seen were for the 125th anniversary of Gettysburg

The Union kicked some ass.

[PeaceNikki]

107. I lol'd

possibly even a small *snort*

[slackmaster]

44. I'm sure there were. A reenactment wouldn't be any fun if only one side was represented.

There wouldn't be anybody to shoot at. ;-)

[Dappleganger]

47. Read my post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=869117&mesg_id=869409

#37

[KamaAina]

74. I am well aware that most Civil War re-enactments are legit

from the vivid description in the OP, I deduced that this one, held at "The Mount Rushmore of the Confederacy", wasn't.

[CatWoman]

79. That park was notorious at one time for being a klan meeting place

it's even mentioned in MLK's "I have a dream" speech.

[emilyg]

119. Hasn't been for a long time.

[cordelia]

120. True

[CatWoman]

121. "at one time"

and besides -- you don't think that stigma still exists?

I don't know -- maybe it's just a black thing. what do you think?

[CatWoman]

52. I did not see a single one

[n2doc]

205. interesting. I wonder if they stuck blue uniforms on scarecrows to shoot at n/t

[distantearlywarning]

39. I do Elizabethan reenactment (SCA).

I guess that makes me a freak that just "can't let go" of the Spanish Armada war of 1588.

Or maybe I just like to dress up in pretty clothes and have fun with my friends.

It's probably the former, though. :eyes:

[CatWoman]

53. you need to scroll up

and no -- it does not make you a freak.

but if you like to dress up like a confederate woman it would.

In my opinion.

[Dappleganger]

59. Why would dressing up like a confederate woman make one a freak?

So people who participate in plays which re-enact the Civil War are freaks as well? That's essentially what they're doing.

[CatWoman]

63. because Confederates are freaks

again, in my opinion.

[Dappleganger]

68. Confederates are dead.

Does that make you happy?

[CatWoman]

72. no, they are not

http://www.youtube.com/user/gascv11#p/u

they constantly run that ad here on television

[Dappleganger]

75. You are confusing re-enactors with racists.

But then again, broad-based bashing of the South seems to be the status quo here.

[txwhitedove]

109. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CatWoman]

111. I don't agree

And if one LIVES in the south, does that prevent one from making unflattering observations about the South?

[emilyg]

115. Yep. Thanks.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virginia mountainman]

203. Hammer, nail, ....

Knock thru the board THANK YOU!!

[distantearlywarning]

In MY opinion, Confederate reenactors are pretty much just like me and my friends.

Some people like to play the English, some people like to play the Spanish, some people like to pretend they're Native Americans imported to Elizabeth's court, and some people are Japanese peasants who have never heard of this strange land called Western Europe.

It's just a personal preference, not a moral issue. :shrug:

[Dappleganger]

80. +100000

You "get" it. ;)

[LibertyLover]

201. OK, you are entitled to your opinion that

female reenactors who dress up as Confederate women would are freaks - bless your heart. (and as a Southern woman you know what that means :evilgrin: )

[RamboLiberal]

55. I was going to ask if OP considered SCA freaks

I don't. Good for you. Bet it's a blast!

[CatWoman]

58. that's one of the problems with this board

I was speaking specifically about one group of reenactors.

Now I'm being broad brushed with feeling that way about ALL reenactors.

which is a complete load of shit.

I have serious problems with the confederates.

I don't have problems with Elizabethans.

[Dappleganger]

61. Actually, you're doing exactly that.

Broad-based bashing of someone you don't know just because of the way they're dressed.

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

67. the dress is part of the cause

:shrug:

[Dappleganger]

73. What 'cause'??

Granted, I was born and raised in the South so what do I know?

You've made up your mind so it seems there's no room for any discussion or movement on your part.

[leftstreet]

71. Come on. It's freakish to reenact war

Doesn't matter what the uniforms look like

[Dappleganger]

78. Tell that to Ken Burns...

or any other historian. How do you think military strategy continued to develop over the years without re-enactments? Even military colleges do this as a way to teach.

[CBGLuthier]

179. The weird part is it is the LOSERS who are so into this

the LOSERS are the ones who will not let it go. Celebrating their treason.

[NV Whino]

104. I agree with you CW

They're still fighting the Civil War in the south, particularly in GA. (I lived there for a while.) The reenactments (for the most part, there are exceptions) are an excuse to let out all those politically incorrect and suppressed feelings that have been festering for generations. I find it quite appalling.

[CatWoman]

112. I think one has to live here in order to really see it

and know of it.

the rest of these people are just blowing smoke.

I've been accused of calling ALL reenactors freaks -- even Vivian Liegh because she starred in Gone with the Wind.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[cordelia]

116. I do live here.

I do know of it.

And you have smeared a lot of decent people that enjoy history. Nothing more, nothing less.

You did manage to create yet another tedious South bashing thread. Hope you're proud.

[CatWoman]

128. oh please

give me an effing break.

I didn't start the fire.

And by the way -- I see you didn't direct your "comments" at the person who agreed with me.

Get off your horse.

This region has SEVERE problems with race and bigotry.

And I WILL NOT let you or ANYONE bully me into not voicing my observations. Or my opinions.

Don't like it? That's not my problem.

Go find another thread to play net nanny.

[emilyg]

117. I live 10 min. from Stone Mountain.

[CatWoman]

122. as I do

and??? :shrug:

[emilyg]

138. My daughter takes the kids there often -

never a problem. Hi neighbor.

[reformed_military]

199. Is it?

I've been accused of calling ALL reenactors freaks -- even Vivian Liegh because she starred in Gone with the Wind.

I don't think anyone claimed you called ALL re-enactors freaks, just the confederate ones.

They must have read what you wrote in post # 53.

53. you need to scroll up

and no -- it does not make you a freak.

but if you like to dress up like a confederate woman it would.

Stinks when someone reads what you wrote and calls you on it. I don't think it is BS.

I believe you are confusing the SCV, re-enactors and the people that lived Antebellum. They are not the same.

I would expect that the reason you didn't see Union soldiers is because Stone Mountain has the same rules that the NPS has re: fighting. The NPS treats all battlefields more or less like cemeteries without headstones. They do not allow opposing forces. It is also not realistic to have Union and Confederates camping together for a living history event. During the war they didn't get along.

BTW, the largest attended re-enactment every year is (usually) Gettysburg. Pennsylvania, north of the Mason/Dixon Line. Gettysburg is as far north as the Southern Army got in mass during the war. And ironically it is held on July 4th weekend.

If Lee had gotten his army to Troy, NY there would be a re-enactment there. There are still living histories events in the north. I know that Philly is having a parade this year commemorating the 150th anniversary of the Army of the Grand Republic deploying to DC.

[Zax2me]

186. You condemned the entire park!

Said it wasn't safe to visit! In one of your responses....

[Marengo]

189. Considering how "Elizabethan" era Europeans behaved in the New World

You SHOULD have a problem with it, a BIG problem. I am puzzled as to why you don't.

[Botany]

54. The Confederate States of America's Constitution and

Declaration of Independence of the CSA all spoke of legal right to own slaves.

Anything else is window dressing.

[RamboLiberal]

60. Call to glory: Civil War re-enactors share a passion for the past

They come from all walks of life.

Custodians, retirees, a Harvard-educated financier and an assemblyman — all unite on the battlefield.

There, they share a passion for history, a flair for pretense and the ability to transport themselves back in time.

-----

A New Jersey-based Civil War re-enacting group representing the North, the 2nd New Jersey consists of roughly 200 members from the tristate area and beyond.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/04/call_to_glory_civil_war_re-ena.html


Mary Iuvone/For The TimesJohn Rountree of Maplewood, talks to Civil War re-enactors about rifle safety and maintenance during a training session held at Heritage Park in Allentown.

[Dappleganger]

65. There you go...

it does go on all over, and most of the ones who do this are into historical weapons and battle strategy.

It's just a hobby.

[JustAmused]

70. Thank you

I myself used to re-enact a Horn player in Beethoven's and Mozart's time....lol. Good God Cat...get a grip. Not everyone who has different interests and opinions is a bigot, racist or idiot

[CatWoman]

69. actually

that information is in the Time article I originally posted.......

[provis99]

88. how come they're almost always middle aged white guys?

[CatWoman]

92. you have a point there

and here's something else: a lot of them were bikers :shrug:

[RamboLiberal]

96. They're not

In this photo taken July 17, 2010, re-enactors portray members of the 54th Massachusetts regiment during a program at Fort Moultrie, on Sullivans Island, S.C.

SULLIVANS ISLAND, S.C. (AP) -- The role of black Civil War troops in gaining the freedom of black Americans was pushed to a distant corner of the national memory for decades.

But the little-known story of the more than 200,000 black troops that served in the Union army is one that scattered groups of black re-enactors are dedicated to retelling as the 150th anniversary of the war approaches.

It's also a story many re-enactors themselves didn't discover until adulthood.

"I'm originally from Ohio," said Mel Reid, a retired National Park Service ranger from Washington, D.C., who re-enacts in a company of the 54th Massachusetts, perhaps the most famous black unit in the war.

"My teachers didn't know that black soldiers fought in the Civil War so they didn't teach us that," he said.

http://www.thegrio.com/black-history/re-enactors-keep-memory-of-black-civil-war-troops.php

There are also Buffalo soldier reenactors.

[emilyg]

118. Thanks.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RamboLiberal]

164. I don't know what group you saw but you painted all who

reenact the Confederate side as some kind of freaks which is not the case.

And if they were in Confederate uniform how were they dressed that said dirty biker?

There are a lot of middle-aged white guys in this country with stomachs hanging over their belts.

[cordelia]

178. DIRTY bikers?

Must've overcome your horror and disgust long enough to get up close and personal to make that determination.

Could you smell 'em? How could you tell they were DIRTY?

[PVnRT]

187. Probably because they have the money to buy all of the gear to do it

[LibertyLover]

202. Hey - I'm a reenactor and I'm not a middle-aged white guy.

OK, so I'm a middle-aged white gal, but my daughter is from China, is 8 years old and loves to dress up as a Viking and go to events.

[Paradoxical]

83. There's a civil war reenactment in Arizona every year.

The battle that was furthest west. It has nothing to do with Southern pride. They just enjoy the history.

[RamboLiberal]

85. I think that's the way for most reenactors

doesn't mean they endorse the morals of the time.

I suppose Native Americans could complain about Buffalo Soldier or cavalry reenactors.

There are WWI and WWII reeanctors who dress as Allied & Axis soldiers. There are air units as well.

[Paradoxical]

86. I mean, I'm certain there are reenactors who are racist confederate assholes.

But I don't believe they represent the group as a whole.

[leftstreet]

87. I could get behind reenacting the French Revolution. Here. n/t

[provis99]

90. +1 for best comment of the thread.

[Paradoxical]

91. I want to reenact the French Resistance.

[mountainlion55]

108. yes yes yes

We could re-enact it on the National Mall!

[WolverineDG]

100. The CAF

the "Commemorative Air Force" which started out as a group of guys looking for WWII aircraft. They also have the only flying B-29, Fifi, in the world, which they put together with parts scavenged from other B-29s left to rot in the desert after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemorative_Air_Force



dg

[RamboLiberal]

157. And originally they were known as the Confederate Air Force

I've had the pleasure of touring Fifi, the B-17 Texas Raider & a B-24. Would love to take a flight on one. Amazing how small & cramped the 17 & 24 are. I can't imagine being the guy in the ball turret, or being exposed to the below zero temps in electric flying suits.

Felt a connection to my uncle I never met who died in a B-24. Poor kid never even got to the war. Went down in a training accident 5 months before the end of the war in Europe.

[WolverineDG]

204. Yes, that was a joke

but they changed it (rightfully so). My parents used to take us to the Airsho every year & I was actually at the one that re-enacted Hiroshima. Very sobering.

Sorry about your uncle. :(

dg

[Nevernose]

97. We have one in Las Vegas, too.

A couple of years ago they had them on TV and the reporter said something like, "So, why did you choose to represent the South?"

"Well, last year I was on the North's side, so this year it was my turn to be a Southerner, and I've already got both costumes..."

It still seems to me a little strange that people would pretend to be on either side. I remember as a little boy my grandfather would tell me stories that his granfather had told him, which is not really all that long ago, if you think about it (he was captured after the war was over by a "colored" regiment, and here I am watching a black man as president). A little disrespectful of all the Americans who died. Oh, well: different strokes for different folks I guess.

[RamboLiberal]

101. Actually most of these reenactors have great respect for the soldiers

of both sides and what they endured.

[Nevernose]

136. I believe it's their intention to be respectful

Though perhaps not necessarily thhe actual effect. I give them a pass, though. There aren't any more Civil War veterans to disrespect, after all. I did just get off the phone with my dad, though. He says that when he was a little kid, they would still trot out some ancient Civil War vets -- men in their late 90s or early 100s -- and dress them up and parade them around. He said that was far more disrepectful, because they had very little idea what was going on around them. People would clap and cheer and generally ignore their hollowness, only seeing the old soldiers as people wanted to see them, and that overall it was very sad.

I'd actually talked to a history teacher a few weeks ago about splitting a unit on the Civil War and splitting the cost. I would teach Stephen Crane and Ambrose Bierce stories, she would teach the hiatorical facts.

We couldn't for two reasons. One, there's not any field trip money available for anyone anymore, and the school district only let's elementary kids go to the reenactment (apparently they'll learn more than the high school kids, who should only be allowed to learn with books and never by experiencing anything. Seriously.). Two, our district now teaches American history in two parts: prehistory to 1865 in seventh grade and 1865 to present in 11th grade. Whether this is due to stupidity or lunacy I don't know, but either way I don't like it.

[WolverineDG]

94. Or maybe they're just fascinated by the time period &

want to do something more than read books. You know, like all the Ren-fest & SCA folks out there.

:eyes:

dg

[Nye Bevan]

103. Yeah, like Vivien Leigh, what a freak for playing the role of a civil war era Southerner. (nt)

[CatWoman]

105. fun fact - Vivian was a freak

she was a nymphomaniac. she used to go trolling in parks for sex.

However, her portrayal in Gone with the wind didn't or does not make her a freak.

I actually like the movie. She gave a wonderful performance.

that said, I think some here, including you, can't comprehend that my feelings about this are confined to the confederacy.

oh yeah - I had to edit this to add that your comment is pretty silly.

again, in my opinion.

[Nye Bevan]

114. I don't like Hitler but I don't think actors who portray him are "freaks".

You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between actors and the roles they play.

[CatWoman]

125. no

it is "you" who has that problem.

I didn't say a word about actors.

You're the one who inserted that into this debate.

It's as if you didn't even bother reading what I wrote.

I SPECIFICALLY stated I didn't feel that way toward Vivian Leigh. I'll go on to say that is true for ANY actor who portrays the Confederacy on the big screen.

You are seeing what you want to see.

And that is not my problem - nor will I allow you to make it my problem.

[Nye Bevan]

131. Hmmm. So it's acceptable for someone to play a Confederate on the big screen,

but the actor is a "freak" if it's a play instead of a movie. You seem to be making this up as you go along.

[CatWoman]

165. of course it's ok to play them on the big screen

what the hell is wrong with you?

you know, i'm not about to play your stupid game.

you're just trolling for a fight. And I'm not about to give that to you.

I hear you knocking, but you can't come in.

You've completely missed the point.

It appears on purpose at that.

[Nye Bevan]

177. Now, now. I understand that getting negative recs is disappointing.

But hurling around accusations of trolling is not the way to get to the Greatest page.

[JVS]

133. link?

[CatWoman]

151. Google is your friend

I found it and so can you.

[bluestate10]

113. Reincarnate General Sherman. The loser that you saw would scatter with the wind. nt

[CatWoman]

123. there's an excellent documentary about Sherman's March to the Sea

I think it ran on the History Channel (not sure).

But from what I understand, his name is still mud here :)

[white_wolf]

152. Oh, it is. The South hates him.

To be completely honest, I may actually concede that they have a point there, burning Atlanta(I think it was Atlanta) to the ground, does seem a bit excessive. Though on everything else, the Neo-Confederates are idiots.

[Brigid]

160. You still do not mention his name there.

My brother once said he would like to go to a bar in Atlanta, order a beer, raise his glass and say, "Three cheers for General Sherman!" I said I wanted to take bets on how long he was in the hospital after he did that! :rofl:

[white_wolf]

163. No!

That is almost as bad as going to a synagogue and shouting "Heil Hitler!" Not that I'm comparing Sherman to Hitler, but the reactions would be very similar, except I'm betting more of the neo-confederate guys carry guns.

[Liberal_in_LA]

126. The title of this thread could be the beginning of a horror story. lol

Glad nothing bad happened to you.

[Brigid]

171. You're right.

You should e-mail Stephen King. Seriously, what a great idea for an opening.

[guardian]

127. Ever been to a Renaissance Festival?

Now that is a collection of weirdos.

[Liberal_in_LA]

207. hee!

[ecstatic]

129. uggh... I'm glad I never saw that while at SM

Freak show indeed... and it's no surprise that most of DU can't fathom why running into something like that would be uncomfortable or down right scary.

[emilyg]

142. You never saw it but would be "down right scary."

I saw - did not scare me.

[ecstatic]

147. Of course it didn't. You're not the target nt

[emilyg]

148. You do know that both blacks and whites

participate in these re-enactments. Check some pictures in above posts.

[ecstatic]

149. She didn't mention seeing Buffalo Soldiers in the OP

You're comfortable seeing it. I get it. But you need to realize that there are people who are not. Especially in red Georgia at a time when the teabaggers are going nuts.

[RandomKoolzip]

130. Just for the record, I think it's a silly hobby - but with dark undertones.

I mean, you don't see too many people willing to do slavery re-enactments, do you? Funny how that's never a part of the "fun" of re-enacting the Civil War. Just the fact that the only thing re-eanacters seem to recall from History books is the "glory" of battle...I mean, it just reminds me of those people who believe in reincarnation, but always think they were a king or a general or a celebrity or someone important in a past life. No one ever thinks they were a servant or a slave or a janitor or someone with a fatal case of distentery who only lived to 24 or anyone from the lower classes or anything unpleasant....

Hi Catwoman :hi:

[RamboLiberal]

150. Dark Undertones - Oh Please.....

A lot of people are fascinated by periods in history. These men & women just take it a step further and like to reenact a period of history for a weekend and have the money to get the accroutements.

Hell if I had more bucks I'd love to compete in Cowboy Action Shooting & mounted shooting.

It's a weekend hobby people!

[RandomKoolzip]

154. I lived in the South for ten years. I knew guys who did this shit.

Lots of them were straight-up racists. Of course not all of them were, but come on. Is someone dressing up like a Nazi on the weekends, re-enacting "WWII's Greatest Hits" any less despicable than another angry white Southerner fantasizing & pretending he's fighting to keep slavery intact?

Whatever. I think it's creepy as hell.

[RamboLiberal]

162. You're painting the whole bunch by a small group

I know racists too who don't bother to dress up on the weekends. In the north. In fact it was just as racist in the North. I've heard tales of cross burnings on hilltops near where I live from the 20's - 40's in stories my parents told. The racism may not have been as upfront as the south but it was just as pervasive and evil.

[JVS]

206. There are some perfectly nice people in the German military collectibles hobby as well.

But there are also some Nazi sympathizers. Same with Civil War stuff.

[backscatter712]

132. Ah, romanticizing the Slavers' Revolt.

Don't call it the Civil War - what's so civil about it?

And it wasn't the War of Northern Aggression - the South shot first, remember?

I'd rather call it the War of Southern Treason, or like I said, the Slavers' Revolt. Gives a more accurate view of the reasons behind the war.

[Brigid]

141. Stone Mountain has a bad history related to the KKK.

Now there are your freaks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#Carving_and_the_Ku_Klux_Klan

[cordelia]

143. And Indiana doesn't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Klan

[Brigid]

145. Sadly, of course it does.

And I just now posted about that upthread, using that very same link.

[CatWoman]

166. I thought we were takling about Georgia???

:shrug:

[Rowdyboy]

146. It amazes me that you post this solid, thought out thread and then get attacked from our "friends"

who apparently have no understanding about life south of St Louis. Lately it doesn't seem to matter what you say, someone here on DU will take offense and someone else will show their ass by insulting you.

Your description reminds me of the scene in Desperate Housewives where Susan and Mike's picnic is invaded by civil war re-enactors-that one ended badly too!

[CatWoman]

153. I can handle it

i'm taking great pleasure in their ass-holinees :)

always so very good to see you :hi:

:loveya:

[Rowdyboy]

158. As it is to see you my dear!

:hug: Thank God for cool people

[CatWoman]

161. I love you , Rowdy

:loveya:

[Zax2me]

183. What was thought out about it?

It was really just a link to a weak article.

[distantearlywarning]

188. Accompanied by hysterical handwringing about dirty bikers and Vivian Leigh

And accusing people who disagree of actually being one of the re-enactors the OP witnessed in the park.

This is one of the strangest threads I've seen on DU in a while. :crazy: :silly: :crazy:

[RamboLiberal]

196. +1 IMHO not a thought out thread

[Morning Dew]

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

People are going to be interested in that war for a long time to come.

150 years isn't really very long. My great grandfather was born in 1876 and I was an adult when he passed away.

I would imagine that there are some DUers older than I (53) who knew someone who was alive at the time of the Civil War.

We have 4 years worth of sesquicentennial commemorations at hand.

Hang tight.

[CatWoman]

170. what a very cool post

:hi:

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CatWoman]

172. careful

next you'll be accused of hating Elizabeth Taylor. or Victor Mature. or Tony Curtis. or Anthony Quinn. Or Rock Hudson. Or anyone else who starred in a movie depicting that genre.

[RamboLiberal]

173. Wow - what a broad brush and intolerance

Most of these people know a lot more about the everyday life of the Civil War soldier and the time period than most of us.

Just love how some condemn them here.

Gee bet some think some of our hobbies are moronic.

On edit the morons:

FORT SUMTER NATIONAL MONUMENT, S.C. — For thousands of Civil War re-enactors, the next four years are a chance to capitalize on the public’s curiosity about a century-old hobby that demands such attention to detail that the fights seem almost real.

The diehards converging at the site where the War Between the States began 150 years ago with a Confederate artillery barrage on Union-held Fort Sumter can’t wait to help others understand why they spend weekends tramping through the rain, sleeping in tents in snow-covered fields, cooking on open campfires and enduring mock battles in wool coats under the hot Southern sun.

They’re expecting a surge of interest in a pastime that has roots at the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1913, when Confederate veterans retraced Pickett’s Charge. Re-enacting took hold for good five decades ago during the Civil War’s centennial.

“The 150th cycle is going to be great. It’s going to bring us some new re-enactors and it’s going to bring a lot of attention and publicity,“ said Reece Sexton, publisher of the Civil War Courier newspaper and two companion magazines considered bibles by enthusiasts.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/04/civil_war_re-enactors_150th_an.html

Estimates are there are 50,000 reenactors in the country.

[Zax2me]

181. So?!

Denial?! Please....

The person who wrote this Time article probably has less of a clue than you on why these people reenact.
I wouldn't read too much into it.
History buffs are just that.
I'm sure you have hobbies that many people would think 'geez, why doesn't she just let go'

[raccoon]

192. Maybe it wasn't a re-enactment--maybe you were travelling in time? :silly: nt

[rasputin1952]

193. Many years ago, when my stomping grounds were NYC and Long Island...

in the small town of Orient on the Island's North Fork, a house caught our attention due to the bronze plaque that was attached marking it as a place on the National Registry. Of course, I can't recall word for word what was on the marker, but it stated basically, that in 1777 a lieutenant of the Continental Army jumped from a second story window to avoid the oncoming British and gather the small Militia and Continental Army soldiers of Eastern Long Island. What struck me, and this part I recall with great clarity was the line, "...his widow, alerted the troops and Militia. The British retreated to Southold later that day." I don't know how this lieutenant died, but I lean to believing he was captured and "dealt" with. I tired to imagine what must have transpired as I walked the property, and there were a small family graveyard in a corner of the property. There were several headstones/footstones with various names, some children that died at the ages of 2 or 3...very sad, to be sure. On the Northern edge of this plot were 3 whitewashed stones marking graves, but no names or anything else about whom they could be, except, when I moved some grass to read a small plaque that simply stated, "graves of unnamed slaves". This had a tremendous impact on me, I had never known that slaves were owned in NY, or anywhere else in the North. This started me on a long trek through history to help me understand my nation a little better.

I am very involved in Civil War history and understand a lot of what happened and why it happened. "States Rights", was, (and still is), code for one portion of a population claiming the "right" to own another part of the population. No human being has the "right" to own another human being.

The Civil War began when South Carolinians fired upon Ft. Sumter; it was long brewing, but the first shot came from an artillery piece at a Federal fort. The horror escalated from that moment on. Some Federals could have cared less about whether slavery was left as an institution; the vast majority in the North joined to preserve the Union, be it part slave, or non-slave. The culture of the time was that individuals of African descent were "subhuman", (a ploy still used today in various aspects of our society, just consider the GLBT community, women, Hispanics...the list goes on forever).

When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, it affected only those slaves in the Southern states, leaving those on the border states still in servitude, it was a calculated political risk, but set the groundwork for the abolition of slavery nationwide. Many Federals deserted or refused to fight for "those damned *******". Far more understood the situation and kept up the fight, knowing that in the end, the Federal forces had to win, if by nothing more than attrition. Four horrendous years of open warfare, brutal to the point of being hell on earth. Even then, the struggle forged on over decades, and to an extent is still being forged today.

I can remember being in marches for Civil Rights in the 60's, I was chased by a dog, and was "washed down" by a firehose. I was just a kid, but to me, if anyone was denied Equal Rights, we were all denied Equal Rights. Being caucasian, I was called all kinds of things...but it never occurred to me to stop fighting the good fight.

I could go on about what Lincoln's plan was for the South, but Booth created an even more hellish scenario for the South that April night in 1865.

When I read your OP, I thought immediately of those three whitewashed stones in Orient. Three human beings, names never to be known, ages denied the curious, three people that had looked at the very ocean that had been crossed to bring them, (or their ancestors), here...I wonder what they thought as they looked across that expanse...and I weep. The one saving grace, the one piece of solace to be found...is that some unknown people re-whitewash those stones, still cut the grass around those three graves, and care enough to make sure these three people are not completely forgotten.

[Nye Bevan]

194. I saw some "freak" playing the part of Thomas Jefferson in Colonial Williamsburg.

Since Jefferson owned slaves, the freaky actor portraying Jefferson is obviously in favor of slave ownership.

What a freak.

[yellowcanine]

198. I have no problem with Civil War reenactments. It is a form of living history.

As long as they don't attempt to rewrite history by claiming that the Civil War wasn't about slavery I have no problem with it. The Civil War happened. It is history. Learning history by reenacting it is not a bad thing as long as the ones doing it are as careful with the bigger historical issues as they are with the authenticity of their buttons, guns and canteens.

[LibertyLover]

200. As a reenactor and someone whose husband did Civil War

Confederacy reenacting, I unrecced this for the comment about the freak show. While my husband is no longer able to shoot and so doesn't do Civil War any more, the group he was in reenacted a real Civil War Louisiana regiment. It was formed of fresh-off-the-boat Irish immigrants - Wheat's Tigers. I learned more Civil War history talking to the members of the group than I learned in grad school doing a master's in Military History. Many of the members were from that hotbed of modern confederate activity - Pennsylvania. I suggest that you might want to read up on historical reenactors before calling them freaks. Most are simply interested in history.

[formernaderite]

211. it's scary how elitist some DUers are.

merely the fact that it's a "WAR" reenactment makes their skin crawl. Which is hilarious, given I'm an old pacifist hippie who has known people across the mid-atlantic who do this. They are rabid about history and getting the details right. And yes, their wives sometimes participate. You'd think people who are supposed to be open minded might give opening their minds a chance, rather than make dated generalizations...

[Nye Bevan]

216. Then they pile on with sneers about Nascar, country music, and worshipping "sky monsters"

and then wonder why it's hard for Dems to win in the South.

[formernaderite]

222. it's not just the south

I cringe at the thought that a lot of regular people anywhere would see some of the crap that's written here. I guess we should all be thankful that most Americans aren't reading DU.

[xmas74]

225. I can handle it,

though some of the comments are offensive to me. I know that my friends and my family couldn't handle some of the comments on this site.

[RamboLiberal]

212. Watching on History Channel Larry the cable guy interviewing

a bunch of Confederate & Union reenactors in Virginia. Seem like normal folk to me.

[Bucky]

214. I've had Civil War, Buffalo Soldier, and Texas Revolution reinactors speak to my classes

These people are excellent historians. My gut told me to avoid discussing contemporary politics with my Confederate guest speaker, but he was very knowledgeable and very entertaining. My kids ended up feeling like they'd met an actual Confederate veteran (he even did the rebel yell for us).

[Odin2005]

218. Good lord, we are bashing reenactors?

[Frank Cannon]

223. What's the big deal? My buddies and I like to have a few beers...

go down to the lake, and reenact the Battle of Thermopylae. It's just good, clean, historical fun.