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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:33 PM
Original message
Ralph Nader: "How far will elected Democrats go in capitulating to corporate dominators?"
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 08:12 AM by Better Believe It
Taking Progressives for Granted
By Ralph Nader
April 12, 2011

When liberals and progressives have nowhere to go, New York’s new Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo can move toward the corporatist-right of the political spectrum with impunity. Brandishing an inherited $10 billion state deficit, Cuomo has earned the following description in the April 7th edition of The New York Times:

“He has clashed with unions, who he believes have helped drive the state toward bankruptcy. He has been praised by prominent conservatives like Sarah Palin and Rudolph W. Giuliani. And he has taken thousands of dollars in campaign money from the New York billionaire David H. Koch, who with his family has helped finance the Tea Party movement….

“The man who began public life advocating for homeless people won passage of a state budget that makes steep cuts to schools, health care and social services. In a year when Wall Street posted record profits, Mr. Cuomo finally rejected a politically popular income tax surcharge on the wealthy.”

Praised by the Wall Street Journal and the republican raptor, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who calls Andrew Cuomo “my soul mate,” the son of moral vision orator, former Governor Mario Cuomo, is on a roll unchallenged by his fellow Democrats and the media. Using the deficit—which is far less per capita than Connecticut’s deficit—he revels in being “Cuomo the cutter”: “I am a realist… Forget the philosophy. Here are the numbers.”

Mr. Cuomo picks his numbers so that the cuts fall on the lower economic classes, the powerless along with the reviled public employee unions. Granted, there is waste fraud or ineffectiveness in many social service programs, but Governor Cuomo is cutting the programs indiscriminately without cutting them by squeezing out the waste and eliminating ineffective programs directly.

What results is that the wasteful practitioners know how to fight to preserve their programs better than the efficient ones do. The former have allies like well-connected corporate vendors with their procurement contracts.

But there is a more blatant misfocus by Cuomo. It is his fear of Wall Street whose crooks, speculators and self-enrichment pros collapsed the economy, looting or draining savings and pensions in 2008-2009 leading to much unemployment and many closed businesses that, through the loss of tax revenue, expanded the state deficit. He refuses even to speak about holding these spoiled, back-to-business-as-usual financial giants responsible.

On the contrary he is rejecting an extension of the tax surcharge on New Yorkers and residing foreigners who make over $200,000 dollars in income a year, which expires this December. It is so much easier to tax the faceless masses. Already, lower income New Yorkers pay a slightly higher percentage of their income in all taxes imposed than do the wealthy. Regressive!

It gets worse. During his campaign for Governor, Mr. Cuomo refused to even contemplate keeping the $14 billion (some estimate higher amounts) a year that the state collects from a century-old stock transfer tax, but instantly rebates, what is really a sales tax, back to the stock brokers. New York used to keep this tax revenue until the early Eighties, when Wall Street pressure finally prevailed. Green Party candidate for Governor, Howie Hawkins, during a public debate argued that keeping these revenues would eliminate the deficit and prevent the reduction of necessary programs. On that stage, Mr. Cuomo refused to engage. Mum’s the word on Wall Street’s fair share.

Cuomo calls himself “a progressive Democrat who’s broke.” A progressive Democrat would push for sacrifice at the wealthy top and work down if necessary. Many of the wealthy derived their billions and millions from many favored policies like tax leniency and other privileges and immunities including violation of the law (some of whom Cuomo pursued as Attorney General.)

After all corporate lobbyists work hard to produce many layers of favoritism, including selling products and services to the state government, that are as profitable as they are often wasteful. Consider, for example, the immense gouging in the outsourcing of CityTime—a large ongoing contract to computerize the New York City payroll (http://www.nyc.gov/html/opa/html/about/city_time.shtml).

The costs of health care reflect big time fraud in billing practices. Should a Governor just cut benefits across the board—stranding indigent patients to suffer or die—or should he crack down on the cheating and stealing that too many vendors have refined to perfection?

To be sure it is quicker to slice arbitrarily, but there is no indication that key cost-beneficial law enforcement budgets against business crime are going to increase on Governor Cuomo’s watch.

Mr. Cuomo did relent on one budget provision, which would have enriched the hospital and insurance lobbies placing a lifetime $250,000 cap on serious baby injuries from malpractice. That was too much to defend by this “progressive Democrat” in Albany. Credit the Center for Justice and Democracy for urging that good deed (www.centerjd.org).

How far will elected Democrats from the White House on down go in capitulating to the insatiable corporate dominators if their liberal/progressive base continues to signal that they politically have nowhere to go? These voters seem to have few visible breaking points on the dark horizon of over-reaching corporatism.

http://www.nader.org/index.php?/archives/2259-Taking-Progressives-for-Granted.html

The above article is not coprighted material. BBI


-------------------------------------------



Cuomo’s Centrism Draws Praise but Stirs Suspicion
By NICHOLAS CONFESSORE
Published: April 6, 2011

ALBANY — He has clashed with unions, who he believes have helped drive his state toward bankruptcy. He has been praised by prominent conservatives like Sarah Palin and Rudolph W. Giuliani. And he has taken thousands of dollars in campaign money from the New York billionaire David H. Koch, who with his family has helped financed the Tea Party movement.

In his first months in office, Governor Cuomo is taking a different tack. The man who began public life advocating for homeless people won passage of a state budget that makes steep cuts to schools, health care and social services. In a year when Wall Street posted record profits, Mr. Cuomo firmly rejected a politically popular income tax surcharge on the wealthy that was sought by many Democratic lawmakers. And Mr. Cuomo has promised to press for a cap on local property taxes, an idea with its modern roots in the conservative-led California tax revolt of the 1970s.

Mr. Cuomo’s approach to governing has burnished his prospects for higher office — an ambition he neither confirms nor denies — playing against the conventional stereotype of a New York Democrat and drawing praise from the political right (some of it, perhaps, not entirely sincere). Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, a Republican, has called Mr. Cuomo “my soul mate.” The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page has praised Mr. Cuomo’s “ruptures with Democratic orthodoxy.”

“Governor Cuomo wants to be president, and he would do anything to be president,” State Senator Rubén Díaz Sr., a Bronx Democrat, said in a speech on the Senate floor as lawmakers debated the budget, whose terms were largely dictated by Mr. Cuomo. “He would take away the Medicare from the people, he would take the services from the poor, he would take the money from education.”

Read the full article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/nyregion/07cuomo.html?_r=1

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fuck Bush enabler and Republican collaborator Ralph Nader.
Singlehandedly responsible for enabling the entire Bush presidency.
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. lol, no n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The Supreme Court sure had nothing to do with it!
n/t
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Oh nonsense
The Republicans would have just had to steal more of Florida. Look at Wisconsin. You should be ashamed of being stupid enough to fall for right wing trick #37, blame Ralph Nader for everything! Goddamn seat belts!!
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
111. "right wing trick #37, blame Ralph Nader for everything"
http://2act.org/p/33.html

"Nader cites the Democratic poll most often because it indicates the least damage. But it is also one of the least if not the least reliable. Even if the poll is the best indication of Florida voters, without Nader, Gore would have gotten 13% of 97,000 more votes thatn Bush from Nader voters, and would have won by 12,000 votes instead of losing by 537."
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. woooo
keep telling yourself that Dude :rofl: :rofl:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. WOW. You think Nader is SUPERMAN!!!!
This Mild-Mannered Consumer Advocate managed to Single-Handedly knock the wheels off the entire Democratic Party!!! :o

Was Nader really THAT STRONG?
or
Was the Anti-LABOR Clinton legacy combined with the "Centrist" Free Tade Gore campaign THAT weak?

Answer the above question correctly, and WIN ELECTIONS.



Who will STAND UP and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?



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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Gore won the 2000 election. And Nader is absolutely
brilliantly correct in this article. As always. I don't know what happened to Andrew Cuomo, but he needs to be replaced asap.

Another pretend democrat who works for Wall St.

Thank you Ralph Nader for always speaking the truth.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. what's your take on bush enabler, barack obama?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
99. =1000%
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
81. Nonsense.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
86. LOL!
What a crock horse shite! Or did you forget the sarcasm coda? please say you forgot :sarcasm: :hi:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
92. It's been proven over and over that Nader didn't elect Bush
Nader being on the Florida ballot was NOT more important than Jeb kicking 80.000 black voters of the rolls.

What matters here is the message. On this point, Ralph is right.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
100. And Exactly WHO Enables The Bush Policies To CONTINUE By Collaborating With Republicans ???
It sure as hell ain't Nader!

:shrug:
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a2liberal Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #100
112. This. Funny how Nader is considered a Bush-enabler while
the majority of Democrats who enable Republican policies must be voted for at all costs, regardless of what policies they support. War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #112
126. Yup
The pro war Blue Dogs and DLC'ers that backed the war in Iraq and went along with the original Bush tax cuts and half of the rest of his shitty policies are all fine and dandy. But damn that Ralph Nader guy who made them all agree with the republicans. I mean, I think I saw him holding a gun to their heads and telling them to vote with the repukes.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
102. Second. nt
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
124. Oh it must be Wednesday
Seriously man, Gore shot himself in the foot repeatedly and ran a terrible campaign. Picking Lieberman was only one of the many mistakes made during that election. Running from his own environmental positions was stupid. Allowing the right to lie their asses off about him without actual responses was criminally stupid.

Nader could have been co-opted and if Gore had actually grabbed a few of his issues and ran with them then maybe he could have picked up a few of the Nader voters. A few actual concessions or points of agreement would have been adequate. Catapulting Naders issues to the American people from the Democratic candidate and expressing how his struggle was America's struggle and therefor the struggle of any legitimate American leader would have helped.

The whole thing was a comedy of errors.

And hey what about the fact that the Bushies were STEALING the election. See Greg Palast's book about that.

But no, better to castigate Nader and make those Democrats that want to bring those issues to the party to improve our party and nation than feel bad for agreeing with him on anything. To me that is the real reason for the Nader-hate fest. It is only coincidentally about Nader it is really about the issues of the environment, labor, the poor, and those issues that the most progressive wing of the Democratic party believes in and those issues we will continue to believe in whether or not the DLC/Blue Dog sorts wheel out a Ralph Nader effigy to burn every week.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
125. Really? All by himself?
Seriously man, Gore shot himself in the foot repeatedly and ran a terrible campaign. Picking Lieberman was only one of the many mistakes made during that election. Running from his own environmental positions was stupid. Allowing the right to lie their asses off about him without actual responses was criminally stupid.

Nader could have been co-opted and if Gore had actually grabbed a few of his issues and ran with them then maybe he could have picked up a few of the Nader voters. A few actual concessions or points of agreement would have been adequate. Catapulting Naders issues to the American people from the Democratic candidate and expressing how his struggle was America's struggle and therefor the struggle of any legitimate American leader would have helped.

The whole thing was a comedy of errors.

And hey what about the fact that the Bushies were STEALING the election. See Greg Palast's book about that.

But no, better to castigate Nader and make those Democrats that want to bring those issues to the party to improve our party and nation than feel bad for agreeing with him on anything. To me that is the real reason for the Nader-hate fest. It is only coincidentally about Nader it is really about the issues of the environment, labor, the poor, and those issues that the most progressive wing of the Democratic party believes in and those issues we will continue to believe in whether or not the DLC/Blue Dog sorts wheel out a Ralph Nader effigy to burn every week.
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mountainlion55 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
139. Really
I've always blamed the Rethug voters of Florida that voted for scrub in the first place. Anybody with half a brain knew better than to vote for scrub!! Nader has always been a stand-up guy.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
141. ZOMG
Ralph Nader is the One Ring! :wow:
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. What is "all the way", Alex?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt
Sid
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Lol
And that's at you, not with you.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
79. LOL. And that's WITH YOU!
:thumbsup:

Bake
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. LOL
w/ you. :thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. +2
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. +1
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
57. K&R
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
64. +10000
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. I have a lot of respect for Ralph Nader.
He is a damn good advocate. The Supreme's can eat shit and bark at the moon as far as I'm concerned. As for how far? Probably as far as they can.
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. As far as they have to!!
USA USA USA USA!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
70. Exactly -- +1000% -- the only question is how far do corporations want them to go!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. And for Nader himself, too.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. No matter what he's saying, it's an automatic unrec
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
93. So if Ralph said "meegbear should be our next Universal Cosmic Emperor..."
:eyes:
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nader Was Wilfully Helping Bush in 2000
Whether or not Bush* could have stolen the election without him is beside the point.
In every swing state that Gore needed to win, there was Ralph campaigning against Gore.

Yet Ralphie insulted our intelligence by claiming he was just trying to get to 5%.
Bull. What was he doing in all those small swing states then? Why sue to stop the
"nader traders"? He wasn't in the race to win, he wasn't in the race to get 5%,
he was in the race as a spoiler, pure and simple. He was helping Bush* win.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Do you have an opinion on the article or are you here to just bash Ralph Nader?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. He May Still be Trying to Help the Republicans
He is still trying to sell the idea that "there is no difference" between Republicans and Democrats
and trying to get us to abandon the Democratic party so the Republicans take over everything.
He thinks that if the Republicans take over completely that things will get "bad enough" that the country will turn to him.

He is senile.

It is sad, because I used to have a lot of respect for Nader back in the day. Not anymore.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Nonsense! That's the job of Democrat "centrists" and "blue dogs" in Congress!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #55
138. You can say that again. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
73. When it comes down to who is "helping the Republicans" ....
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 05:21 PM by defendandprotect
evidently, you're blind when it comes to Obama!!

Those who have helped the Republicans and the rightwing have too often been

the Democratds -- those like Andrew Cuomo -- and Obama -- and Duncan -- and

Geithner -- the whole mess of the Obama "team" which brought about the financial

coup to begin with!


The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC -- !!

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

Wake up!

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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #73
104. Here's the argument that I often see. When Bush did it, it was bad. When Obama does
it, it's governing.

I wonder what the psychological term is for such behavior?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #104
113. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. When you post something, we may consider the source of that
post, and react accordingly. Sometimes, that means that we comment on the source. I believe that is allowed here.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Except Bush lost.
You going to blame the Supreme Court decision on Nader too?

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
71. Gore won the election -- it was stolen by GOP fascist rally and rw Supremes --
When you take them out of the picture, you will understand what actually

went down --

The longer you don't understand the more room you provide for its happening again!

300,000 "Democrats" in Florida voted for Bush -- but the 537 alleged vote "wing" by

W in Florida had Nader's finger prints on them?

We are voting on computers which are hackable -- but that doesn't seem to bother you?

The Democratic Party gave you the Nader bone to chew on because they didn't want to stand

up to elites backing W -- or the power behind the steal -- and btw neither did Gore stand

up for himself. A few words from elites and he packed up and went home!

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. Yes I Know About the Repiglickin Election Fraud
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 05:53 PM by AndyTiedye
I did not say that Nader caused Gore to lose. I am well aware of the blatant election fraud that went on.

There is NO question that Nader was running a spoiler campaign to try to make Gore lose.
He wanted to make things "bad enough" so that people would turn to him.

It didn't work. It just moved the country further to the right.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. What nonsense ... and every third party candidate was a "spoiler" candidate?
The only people moving this country to the right are the GOP and corporations --

with, sadly, the collaboration of the Democrats -- even back to 1978 as we know

from Wm. Greider's book "Who will tell the People?" where he outlines how

Dems collaborated with GOP in '78 on breaking the tax code for the benefit of the

rich.*

You're really expecting a Congress with 50% millionaires and multi-millionaires --

all of them making an exhorbitant salary now -- will be voting in your interests?!!



*

Keep hoping to get to a wider report on that book which he wrote in '92 and which

I read at that time and am rereading now --

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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
101. so--Buchanan was also in the race
or have some forgotten. You do remember "jews for Buchanan?" It was a statement about the butterfly ballot in Florida. so, it's not the fault of democrats voting for Little Boots, or Florida purging valid voters or intimidating voters at the polls or the supreme court (two supremes who should have recused themselves because family members were on the * campaign. It's all Nader's fault and the corporate MSM made sure the masses knew to blame one man-one man only.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #101
115. Way over 3,000 votes lost to "butterfly ballot" -- Theresa La Pore -- !!
A Democrat --

later linked to GOP interests, I've read -- ????

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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
106. I was in Utah at the time
and I do remember the election. Since Utah is not a swing state, there were people in my county who voted for the Green party which garnered more votes than the democrat. At the time, there was a plan of a vote switch--whereby a person who wanted to vote for the Greens in a switch state would vote for the democrat as a switch for someone in a very red state voting for a Green. It was about getting the 5%, attempting to make the green party a viable party. But, you can believe what you want. That was the plan-of course it didn't work can't have another party vying in the old two party system.

But, we've seen this song and dance before, approximately one hundred years ago between both parties. The robber barons ruled the land and both parties catered to the monied, nepotism, corruption--that's when the progressive populist movement came into existence. California and Wisconsin, were strongly influenced because of the movement, especially in education and labor. A strong enough movement can make both parties stand up and take notice--not a faux corporate-wealth sponsored astroturf teabagger movement-but a movement for the people.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #106
117. Interesting post -- problem seems to be however that so much of democracy has been
destroyed since then -- so many of the avenues to gain and re-gain democracy --

In fact, that was one of the reasons that Nader ran for president -- organizations

which represent the public were being blocked -- while corporate lobbyists were being

invited in to WRITE legislation!!

Also, as we can see, this corporate fascism is widespread -- no longer limited to one

or three countries -- no one is to be left standing!

PLEASE tell me I'm wrong!! :)

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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nader? Ho-hum.
:shrug:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Does that mean he is wrong about what Cuomo is
doing? I wouldn't call Cuomo's betrayal of democractic principles 'ho-hum' by any stretch of the imagination.

He will most likely lose the next election in NY now that people can see who he really is.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. No, it just means that I don't bother with anything Nader says.
I find him boring. I didn't read this screed. My comment is about the source. I would not spend 10 seconds of my time reading anything Nader said. How's that. I always consider the source, you see, in making my decisions about what to read and what not to read.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. yet here you are, spending more than 10 seconds to offer an opinion on someone..
that you are clearly unqualified to judge.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. So I am. And that's my choice isn't it?
As for my qualifications, that's also my business. I don't care what Nader says about anything. He is a stain on the political system. I'm commenting on the man, not the article. I thought that should have come across quite clearly. It is my opinion. You may read about that in my signature line. You're free to hold your own.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. how many seconds did you waste with this reply?
they're starting to add up......
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. How can that matter to you?
I can waste my time as I see fit. I will reply to as many posts as you care to make. It's my time, and if I'm wasting it, what do you suppose you are doing? I stated my opinion in the very first message. Did you suppose I would change it, based on your replies to me? Really? I believe that you know that I have opinions, and am willing to discuss those opinions as long as you care to join me in discussion.

Ralph Nader is, in my opinion, a stain on progressivism. He serves himself, and himself alone. He is not a progressive, but an opportunist, who makes his living selling his opinion, whatever it may be on a certain day, and whether he actually believes it or not. He has found his voice, and it is his rice bowl.

You're welcome to listen to his voice, if you wish. I will remain free to criticize Ralph Nader for being a hypocrite and a stain on politics.

We can argue as long as you wish. I've finished my work for the day, and am at your service.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
59. that must've taken a couple minutes of your precious time..
tell me more.....
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
83. What makes you think my time is precious?
It's not. When I'm working, I'm not on DU. When I'm not working, I often am. I find DU interesting.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #30
127. Yeah
He won't actually read the content of the message because Nader isn't worth his time but he will hang out long enough to bash him. Repeatedly. Over multiple subthreads. And every time that a post with something Nader comes up.

Ridiculous.

Nader can be right just as anyone can be if your going to expend the energy to bash him, why not do it in an educated manner. If I want to slam a repuke I usually look to what they say and then factually grind them into the dirt.
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. "My comment is about the source." As long as you're honest n/t
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. I'm always honest. I detest Ralph Nader, so any comment I make
on him may be taken with that information in mind. He is for Ralph Nader, and nothing else. He has his established schtick. It keeps him in beans. Beyond that, he has no impact on the planet, as far as I am concerned. I wonder that so many find his words to be of use.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. we actually read his words
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. OK. That's nice. I've read many of his words, since the 1960s.
Because of that, and his actions, I have formed an opinion of him. Now, I no longer read his words. He is irrelevant to me, and pretty much anathema.

Your opinion of him differs from mine. So be it.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. The OP was not about the source, it was about Gov. Cuomo
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 03:35 PM by sabrina 1
You might want to write an OP about Nader then, rather than making OT comments in a thread about Cuomo.

To keep the thread on topic, Cuomo will most likely lose the next election if he continues to push these rightwing policies in NY. This is NOT why people elected Democrats, we could have had these policies with Republicans.

As a NYer, I can say with certainty that he has just lost a good deal of the voters who elected him.

And Nader, as always, good progressive that he is, is correct.

People, especially NYers, want accountability from the Wall St. criminals who brought down this economy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see calls for Cuomo to step down over this.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I can also comment about a source here on DU.
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 03:38 PM by MineralMan
Are you suggesting that I cannot?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
75. It's still more attempts to "kill the messenger" rather than addressing the message ...!!
And it's the preferred way for those here who support not knowing!!


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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. If Cuomo loses his next election, then he will have reaped the
reward he deserves. If he is investigated and has committed a crime, he may be convicted and removed.

Ralph Nader's comments are not evidence, nor does he have a clean bill of health of his own. Again, my comment is not about Cuomo, but about Nader. When a dubious source writes, I first consider the source. I'll look elsewhere for information about the subject. I will not read Nader's comments. I no longer read anything Nader writes. You may do as you please.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. So, you really are not qualified to express an opinion on
the opinions of someone whose words, you admit, you do not read.

I'm sure we will all take your opinion for what it is worth considering all of that.

Ralph Nader is a highly respected progressive hero regardless of the few, fringe elements who have attempted to, laughably, hold him accountable for Gore's loss. A loss that did not happen since Gore won.

But it's always interesting to find out why people have such strong feelings about people like Nader, who doesn't seem to be much affected by them himself.

His article published in this OP is, as always, truthful. The Democratic Party continues to lurch even further to the right, even on state levels. Sooner or later something is going to happen to reverse this trend. My feeling is it is about to happen in the very near future.

So I thank all those, Nader included, who continue to hold them accountable, not that we actually needed him to tell us that Cuomo is yet another sell-out on the so-called 'left'. But, his comments are highly regarded and for that reason, I am glad he shared his POV.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
77. +1000% --- "holding Democratic Party/officials" accountable is why they fear Nader--!!
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 05:35 PM by defendandprotect

and why they were compelled to avoid any accountability for 2000 -- either then or now --

by trying to smear Nader!

Terrific post!

:)
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Yes, they refused to challenge that election. That should have
alerted people to the fact that something was very wrong. An election was stolen right in front of the world, and we get the idiotic claims that Nader did it. What Nader did was perfectly legal. He ran a legitimate campaign in a democracy.

The anger towards someone who did something legal is remarkable and all the more so by the LACK of anger towards the illegality of the interference of the SC in an election. In fact it is irrational and he only reason for it has to be to distract from the real crime.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #53
116. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
76. And what damage will Cuomo have done to the citizens by then - and the state?
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 05:31 PM by defendandprotect
Ralph Nader's comments are not evidence, nor does he have a clean bill of health of his own. Again, my comment is not about Cuomo, but about Nader. When a dubious source writes, I first consider the source. I'll look elsewhere for information about the subject. I will not read Nader's comments. I no longer read anything Nader writes. You may do as you please.

Trying to smear Ralph Nader by suggestions like this shows your own lack of evidence.

When we consider dubious sources, certainly it is your posts leading the way!

What absolute trash!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
74. Which only speaks to your own problems --
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
96. Why should anyone care what you think then?
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 07:20 PM by Marr
You won't spend the time to review his comments, but you'll spend time insisting no one else should?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. What other people think about what I think is their business.
And I never insisted that anyone do or not do anything. That's not my style at all. I gave my opinion. You're welcome to your own.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
123. your discretion with sources is poor.
no wonder you're wrong all the time.
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mountainlion55 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #29
137. question
Are you a RW plant?
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
66. LOL
Predictable.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Better Believe It.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. Not one single comment on what an asshat Cuomo is on this tread?
Thats a sad refection on Democratic values here.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. It's the biggest elephant in the room.

The Democrats collude with the Republicans to turn back the modest social progress of the last 100 years but the partisans and lovelorn cannot or will not see it.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. OKAY, Cuomo IS An Asshat! AND, To Those Of You Who Simply HATE
Nadar because of FLORIDA (and I live here) I will only say this. FLORIDA is one screwed up state that seems to me the BUSHITES own! We are STILL dealing BUSHES down here and I think Jebby has tentacles EVERYWHERE!

While I never voted for Nadar I refuse to call him names or bash him. He lacks charisma and should probably never have run for POTUS, but he HAS done some very good things and brought attention to some very bad stuff that has gone on for years and years. I don't think he had anything more to do with the 2000 election loss than the "butterfly" ballot that had BUCHANAN'S name front & center!

The election WAS stolen IMO, and I'll go to my grave believing it. I SAW the look on Bush's face when they FIRST called the state of Florida for Gore. THEN, I started watching returns that night, county by county and there were votes being dumped in "clumps" in counties that always seemed to turn out for Democrats!

YES, Cuomo is an ASSHAT! This country is simply getting turned upside down and TPTB don't give one HOOT what happens to the less fortunate. You'd probably find MORE Repuke Democrats these days than you would REAL Democrats, and I include the WH in that too!
:puke:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
80. There may be worry that if they acknowledge Cuomo's betrayal, it might make
it easier to see what's been going on with Dems overall --

and what's happened with Obama in the White House -- DLC/Rahm -- and the

Wall Street gang!!

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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
28.  "He has clashed with unions"
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Thank you. Nader is whatever he wishes to be whenever he
wishes to be that. He is not a trustworthy individual.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
88. And this attempted smear of Nader is based on a fired employee -- !!! Way to go!!
:rofl:
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. You beat me to it.
His hypocrisy galls.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Ralph Nader is staunchly for Ralph Nader.
Beyond that, it's all up in the air, depending on the direction of the wind.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
51. +1 billion
Nader is in it for Nader. If he was really serious about politics, let's see him run for Congress or the Senate (hell, state senate, I don't care which one) and see what he can do. He's shown he can agitate, but can he legislate?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. Andrew Cuomo has turned out to be another sellout
Democrat protecting Wall St. criminals while attempting to make the working class pay their debts. Nader is dead right about him.

We need more people like Nader telling the truth about both parties. He's been proven right over and over again about the two party system. I used to disagree with him about Democrats, but now I see that he was right.

The only difference in the parties at this point is that there are a few good Democrats, but they don't have much power.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
85. What business does Nader run? All he's involved with are non--profits?....
And you're banking this smear on someone fired by Nader?

:rofl:

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. Even the sky is not the limit, Ralph. nt
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
50. Every 4 to 8 years, this ground hog pops out of its hole.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. So according to your calender is this the 4th or 8th year? Do you have an opinion on the article?

I'm listening.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Well, let's see ...
Popped in 1996, and again in 2000. Briefly for 2004. Was unusually quiet in 2008. And now back in prep for 2012.

And the current article seems to be his standard. "Democrats are bad."

The reality is that he's never going to engage the process and try to actually change it. He will, as he has done time and time again, sit on the sidelines and critic the process.

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #62
89. You wrote that Nader "Was unusually quiet in 2008" when he ran for President!
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 06:59 PM by Better Believe It
Now that's funny!

It appears that you really don't know much at all about what Nader has said or done.

He tried to work within the system.

But, Nader was one of the first pushed under the bus.

Many have followed in the past decade.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
91. But Obama is "engaging the process" and trying to actually bring CHANGE?
:rofl:

:rofl:

if it weren't so sad -- !!

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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
98. If it was changed, he'd have to find something else to complain about.
Complaining about the process is the only way he gets any attention.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
90. He's constent in his criticism of both parties. Do you agree with
what Andrew Cuomo is doing?
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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
103. funny you should mention Groundhog Day by way of a ground hog
ya ever see that movie where the guy wakes up and the day keeps repeating, and he relives that day over and over? That's what voting feels like any more.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #103
133. Yeah, but in the movie, it gets better each time.
Not so much in this one.
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. K & R
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
60. So what has he done?
Why are there still any corporations? What has he done to stop them?
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. He's appointed representatives of working people to lead his economic teams.

And has shut Wall Street and big business out of the White House.

And he's smarter than George W. Bush.

Of course, a pet rock is smarter than Bush!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. Another unmasking of a Dem selling out to corporatism = Andrew Cuomo ...
While I always had some respect for his father -- the idea that Mario Cuomo was a liberal

is farce --

Meanwhile, congratulations to Ralph Nader -- and everyone here better begin to ponder

whether they have somewhere to go -- or not!!


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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
67. Lazarus effect...
I suspect if FDR himself resurrected and wrote the same thing on DU, the haters would emerge en masse.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
68. I love watching people blame Nader for Gore's loss.
Here is an idea how about blaming Gore and the Democrats for not offering a candidate progressives could get behind? God forbid, people actually vote for a candidate who's ideas they can believe in.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
109. Having Leiberman on the ticket should have meant an automatic vote by all progressives!

:sarcasm:
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #109
118. Self-Delete
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 08:19 AM by Better Believe It
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
121. I hate seeing the mess created in this country by people who voted for Nader.
That whining about Gore not being a progressive is exactly why we got Bush in 2000. And it's spelled "whose", not "who's". Christ.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #121
128. +1
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #121
134. Not quite.
I almost voted for Nader in 2000. But, I just couldn't pull the trigger in the booth. Voted for Gore, whom I didn't care that much for then, but admire a lot more now.

But, Jesus Christ. Lieberman on the ticket? He'd be better on a milk carton.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #121
135. Gore won the election. The SC reversed the will of the people.
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 05:27 PM by sabrina 1
Nader doesn't even rate a mention in that historical act of treason. But it's interesting how little anger there is about what should caused a revolt in this country. All the anger is directed at someone who had zero effect on the outcome, who lives in a democracy and ran a legal campaign.

The treasonous SC justices, the rightwing rabble-rousers, the Bushes and Rove and the army of far right conspirators, escape any anger from those who stunningly reserve their anger for someone whose actions were perfectly legal. Without the interference of the Bush family criminals on the right and their colluders on the SC, Gore would have been president.

What exactly is more anger inducing about a candidate choosing to run legally in a presidential race, than the act of treason that threw the election to Bush? I simply cannot understand it.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #121
142. How?
"That whining about Gore not being a progressive is exactly why we got Bush in 2000. "


Pray tell, educate me: How?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
69. Recommend
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
72. Love the hate. stay classy GD. n/t
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #72
122. Yeah...let's get back to the Obama hate already.
Nader is a distraction.

Focus people, focus.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
84. Spot frigging On ! Rec'd
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
94. Oops-
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 07:12 PM by Marr
mispost
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
105. I've been wondering about that myself-- how far into this Horror Show
are we going to crawl? What are we trying to achieve by casting aside our core values yet again?

I do not understand the game plan, which looks decidedly Hooverian at this point.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
107. Great post. REC. nt
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blue neen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
108. Isn't there a Corvair on the road somewhere?
:)
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
110. All the way
they already have just about. :puke:
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Mosaic Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
114. It's called corruption
We must take the money out of politics, that would take a near revolution.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
119. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
120. Fuck you, Nader.
YOU are responsible for this mess. Fuck you.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
129. k&r
:fistbump: ..to this threads revival.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
130. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
131. As far as the corporate bribes...er...campaign contribtutions witll take them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
132. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
136. Not as far as Nader went in sucking up to Grover Norquist.
I think the right wing is blackmailing him and that is why he is the most reliable anti-Democrat on the left.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
140. Too late to rec
but :kick:!
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
143. Nader, Trump, and the Olympics - Things that show up ever 4 years.
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 02:14 PM by cottonseed
I guess Gore's scalp wasn't enough he's got to pop in to tell this next generation's Democrats how bad the party is.
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
144. Nadir = Republican Party's Best Friend
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